"Christianity as the foundation of our national morality...."

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"Christianity as the foundation of our national morality...."

Most of what I know about Hitler I've learned from the History Channel. But I've read comments on a couple of forums that the Third Reich was atheist. The following quotes, however, make it appear that at least at the begining of his rise to power Hitler believed he was doing God's work.

 

"I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Almighty Creator. By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."
— Adolf Hitler, ibid., Vol. 1 Chapter 2

"Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the 'remaking' of the Reich as they call it."
— Adolf Hitler, ibid., Vol. 2 Chapter 1

"The National Government will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."
— Adolf Hitler, Berlin, 1933, first radio address after coming to power

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . We need believing people."
— Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
— Adolf Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941.

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Cpt_pineapple
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From Hitler's Table

From Hitler's Table Talks:

 

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

 

When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves. from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease

 

Hitler's motivations was Naziism, not Christianity.

[edit]

Hitler was most likely a Christian, but his driving force was Naziism.

 

Oh and Godwin's rule FTL

[/edit]

 


stillmatic
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Cpt_pineapple wrote: From

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

From Hitler's Table Talks:

 

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

 

When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves. from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease

 

Hitler's motivations was Naziism, not Christianity.

[edit]

Hitler was most likely a Christian, but his driving force was Naziism.

 

Oh and Godwin's rule FTL

[/edit]

 

Nazism is anti-semetic? Let's say Hitler wasn't a Christian at all and that he wasn't anti-semetic as well.

Hitler's goal is to unify the country by villianizing a group of people. Why did he pick the Jews?

The answer of course is that Jewish anti-semetism was rampant at the time and was actively promoted by the church. Even if Hitler was a Pastafarian, the church still is responsible for a great deal what transpired in Nazi Germany.

I know it's been said numerous times, but if you want to find the inspiration for Hitler's hatred of the Jews you need look no further than Martin Luther and his book "The Jews and their Lies".

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven." -- former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien


Cpt_pineapple
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stillmatic wrote: Nazism

stillmatic wrote:

Nazism is anti-semetic? Let's say Hitler wasn't a Christian at all and that he wasn't anti-semetic as well.

Yes, it is quite clear it is. There were Nazi members that were not Christian.

 

 

Quote:

Hitler's goal is to unify the country by villianizing a group of people. Why did he pick the Jews?

No, Hitler's goal was the resurection of Germany.

 

Quote:
 

The answer of course is that Jewish anti-semetism was rampant at the time and was actively promoted by the church. Even if Hitler was a Pastafarian, the church still is responsible for a great deal what transpired in Nazi Germany.

 

See the confessing church.

And I actually like to think that the Nazis were responsible for what transpired in Nazi Germany, but that's just me. 

 

 

Quote:

I know it's been said numerous times, but if you want to find the inspiration for Hitler's hatred of the Jews you need look no further than Martin Luther and his book "The Jews and their Lies".

 Didn't Stalin read that book?


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This is one of those issues

This is one of those issues I wish would go away.

What's wrong with this:

*Hitler was a Christian of some sort at some point.

*He seems to have formed a somewhat different opinion at some other point.

The obvious conclusion?  Hitler was not a Christian his whole life.

******

Now, how about this?

*Stalin was not a Christian.

*Stalin read Luther.

Conclusion?  Stalin was not a Christian.  He read Luther.

******

Could we stop talking about this now?

 

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Cpt_pineapple wrote: From

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

From Hitler's Table Talks:

 

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

 

When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves. from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease

 

Hitler's motivations was Naziism, not Christianity.

[edit]

Hitler was most likely a Christian, but his driving force was Naziism.

 

Oh and Godwin's rule FTL

[/edit]

 

The Nazis didn't invent the concept of persecuting Jews.

Hitler didn't create anti semitism.

He called upon it .

It existed centuries before he was born.

It was created by christians.

 

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

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todangst

todangst wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

From Hitler's Table Talks:

 

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

 

When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves. from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease

 

Hitler's motivations was Naziism, not Christianity.

[edit]

Hitler was most likely a Christian, but his driving force was Naziism.

 

Oh and Godwin's rule FTL

[/edit]

 

The Nazis didn't invent the concept of persecuting Jews.

Hitler didn't create anti semitism.

He called upon it .

It existed centuries before he was born.

It was created by christians.

 

 Of course Hitler didn't create anti-semitism. Jews were persuced throughout history, but not just by the Christians. They were also by the Greeks etc..

It was far more likely that Nordic theory drove his actions.  


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Quote: It was far more

Quote:
It was far more likely that Nordic theory drove his actions. 

huh?

Hitler was a viking now?

Seriously, it's ok to admit that he was a Christian for part of his life, that Christianity was the primary theory behind persecution of the Jews in Western Europe, and that whether he believed it or not, Hitler was tapping into the same religion that Luther, Wagner, and a thousand others of German heritage tapped into to justify their hatred of the Jews.

Yes, Hitler was into "ancient mysticism."  Celtic, Nordic, and Christian tradition all figured into his quirky ideas. 

It doesn't prove anything for any side.  It's history.  Why sully it up just to put a glossy coat on a religion?

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

Seriously, it's ok to admit that he was a Christian for part of his life,

In no post do I deny this. 

 

 

Quote:

that Christianity was the primary theory behind persecution of the Jews in Western Europe, and that whether he believed it or not, Hitler was tapping into the same religion that Luther, Wagner, and a thousand others of German heritage tapped into to justify their hatred of the Jews.

 

Guilt by association FTL.

 

Quote:
 

Yes, Hitler was into "ancient mysticism." Celtic, Nordic, and Christian tradition all figured into his quirky ideas.

I think it was mainly his drive for the superiour race.

 

Quote:
 

It doesn't prove anything for any side. It's history. Why sully it up just to put a glossy coat on a religion?

 

 

1) I didn't create the topic 

2) I am not 'sullying' 


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Quote: 2) I am not

Quote:
2) I am not 'sullying'

What's your point, then?  He wrote down that god wanted him to kill Jews, albeit with a little more flare for the melodramatic than my simple little summary.  Why do you want to bring ancient Nordic religion into this.  Do you want us to believe he didn't mean the Christian god?  If so, what is your evidence?

Why are you interested in exonerating Christianity from their responsibility in the persecution of the Jews?

If you're not interested in exonerating it, what's your point?

 

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Hambydammit wrote: Why

Hambydammit wrote:

Why do you want to bring ancient Nordic religion into this.

 

'Nordic Theory' is racial supremacy.

 

 

Quote:

Do you want us to believe he didn't mean the Christian god? If so, what is your evidence?

I never made such a claim.

Quote:
 

Why are you interested in exonerating Christianity from their responsibility in the persecution of the Jews?

Jewish persecution is not exclusive to Christianity.

 

Quote:
 

If you're not interested in exonerating it, what's your point?

 

 I think that would be self-explaining.


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So, are you comfortable

So, are you comfortable with:

"Hitler was a Christian early in his political career.  His primary goal for Germany was establishing the superior arian race.  This idea traces back to Nordic mythology.  His primary method for acheiving this was exterminating the Jews.  This idea traces primarily back to Christianity, although it was not without previous precedent."

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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I honestly do not know why

I honestly do not know why I even bother anymore.

Hitler's primary method for acheieve a superior raced Germany was the extermnation of the 'undesirables' it was Eugenics that was his primary method.


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Quote: I honestly do not

Quote:
I honestly do not know why I even bother anymore.

I suspect it's because you're a masochist.

Care to examine the propoganda in detail?  Maybe you'd like to compare the death totals in the concentration camps by race?

You've read about the history of Austria and Germany, right?  You know about how rampant anti-semitism was, going back well over a century before Hitler came to power, right?  You know that just like the rest of Europe, Austria and Germany were Christian, right?  You know that Luther's writings were highly influential.  You know that Wagner was not just a composer.  He was a writer of anti-semite literature.  You know Hitler was a big fan, what with the Flight of the Valkerie, and all, right?

Surely you've read the writings of prominent Christians of the time, advocating persecution of the Jews, right?

So, tell me again, what was Hitler doing when he tapped into the German people's anti-semite philosophy?  Utilizing Nordic religion, or Christian heritage?

Why is this so hard for you to admit?  He used Christian writings and history to further his own goal, which may or may not have had anything to do with his own beliefs.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Quote:   Care to examine

Quote:

 

Care to examine the propoganda in detail? Maybe you'd like to compare the death totals in the concentration camps by race?

Well since the Jews had the highest population and hence were killed the most. 

 

Quote:

You've read about the history of Austria and Germany, right? You know about how rampant anti-semitism was, going back well over a century before Hitler came to power, right?

Yup

Quote:

You know that just like the rest of Europe, Austria and Germany were Christian, right?

So was France, America, Britian and the rest of the Allied army.

 

Quote:

Surely you've read the writings of prominent Christians of the time, advocating persecution of the Jews, right?

Have you read of those speaking out against it? 

 

 

Quote:

So, tell me again, what was Hitler doing when he tapped into the German people's anti-semite philosophy? Utilizing Nordic religion, or Christian heritage?

 

The thing Hitler tapped into was Germany's crappy economic situation. After WWI, Germany was left in ruins, Hitler promised a new superiour Germany. In order to do this they must get rid of the undesirables. 

 

Quote:
 

Why is this so hard for you to admit? He used Christian writings and history to further his own goal, which may or may not have had anything to do with his own beliefs.

 

Or he could of used the Gestapo to further his goals, but that's just me.


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Not sure why peopl e are

Not sure why peopl e are going for all or nothing here

 

Christainity (especially the Catholic church) shared a responsibility for the holocaust but it would be absurd  to say it was solely responsible or even the biggest cause.

To be fair christainty played a part (not in my opinion a big part) in stopping it as well.