To be or not to be...

jackal
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To be or not to be...

Assumptions: 
     1) there is no afterlife 
     2) qualities of person X:
         a) no dependents
         b) no financial obligations
         c) no compelling goals, causes, or reasons to live, self-made or otherwise
         d) X does not particularly enjoy life

Questions: Should X continue to live? Why or why not?


Maragon
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This is so obviously a

This is so obviously a loaded question.

 

I'm going to have to decline to answer based on the impossible premise.

There's no way that 'x' could meet all of those critera. 


Nero
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Suicide by ennui

I have been reading posts on this site for several weeks now and decided to throw my hat into the ring today. I find this question to be rather compelling because it strikes at the heart of all existence. I appreciate the route of an existentialist for this issue.

You have removed the potential of godly retribution and have alleviated the individual of any guilt that might be associated with such a loss. This looks much like the toiling of Sartre and Camus in the middle of the last century. In the end, the universe is "absurdity" itself. Sartre states in Being and Nothingness that the mild nausea we feel when we recognize that no overall plan exists for us to be absurdity. There is no plan; there is nothing stopping us from suicide; we are as pointless as a chunk of stone.

Initially, Camus agrees with Sartre as demonstrated in L'etranger. The main character kills a man to see how it feels and is executed for his crime. He is mainly indifferent throughout. However, he revisits the issue in La Peste. A plague strikes, and a town must band together to survive. Why would one try to assist others to survive if all were "absurdity"? We instinctively attempt to help others in trouble. We sympathize with their plight. We take on their emotional state due to our sympathy. So, even though the universe is absurd, we are hardwired to appreciate doing what is good for others.

Camus leans heavily on Hume and Humean Humanism to mask absurdity. (I know the alliteration makes me a little ill too.) We construct value because we are in society. Others are wired to worry about us, and we are wired to worry about them. So, in a vacuum, the person should commit suicide. As soon as society is introduced, one is compelled to stay alive. Regardless of whether one believes it, someone would mourn the loss of our unhappy subject, perhaps a sister or a cousin. Our subject should reflect on how the suicide would affect others and realize it would cause pain. Self-actualized humans would prefer to avoid causing pain; therefore, suicide is not an option.

Oh yeah, after he wrote La Peste, Camus committed suicide be getting drunk, writing a letter to Sartre, and driving into a telephone pole. I realize that might take some of the luster from my view, but better to face it than have another do so.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


JWMaher
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No, there's a good answer

No, there's a good answer to this question, and there is a potential situation where this would come up.

 If I were X, and shipwrecked on an island where I could potentially sustain myself indefinitely, I would fit most, if not all, of these criteria (provided there was no hope of rescue/I am declared legally dead).

At that point, the answer is that it simply is my decision whether I live or die.  I'm the only one capable of making such a decision, as is X in this scenario.  I can't speak for some anonymous X, but I can speak for me.   So, the short answer is that we don't pass judgement on whether someone else has a right to life in situations like the one described.  That is entirely a private judgement.

David Cross: So I was watching this one show where - there's a guy on stage and he pretends he has contact with the dead and people are watching.
Audience Member: Crossing Over.
David Cross: No, not Crossing Over. It was uh, church.


aiia
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What does X want?

What does X want?


Nero
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AiiA wrote: What does X

AiiA wrote:
What does X want?

I agree with asking this question, but X should be inclined to consider what the ripple effect is. As I said, it may cause more damage than X realizes. Does X have the right to damage others?

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


jackal
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Nero wrote: AiiA

Nero wrote:
AiiA wrote:
What does X want?
I agree with asking this question, but X should be inclined to consider what the ripple effect is...

I object to the "ripple effect" because of the implicit assumption that X's life will have an overall positive effect and X's death will have an overall negative effect. The converse could be true.

However, feel free to address the effects of additional conditions on X as long as you address both possibilities: If A then... If not A then...


Nero
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Of course there will be

Of course there will be negative effects from X's continued existence. X will continue to consume resources and could possibly do other harm. However, from X's perspective, a world with X is the only world ever extant. I recognize the inherent narcissism in this view, but we started with an egocentric X. So, X's choice is to either continue the world as he has known it or radically change it by his suicide. He should examine the cost to society.

Again, there are costs associated with death (disposing of the corpse, cleaning out the housing, probating whatever he owns, replacing whatever position he held to have income, the loss of income to anyone who spends time owrrying over X's loss, etc). There is a societal value on any given human. That is why we insure people's lives.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


rexlunae
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jackal wrote: Questions:

jackal wrote:
Questions: Should X continue to live? Why or why not?

Ask X.


ParanoidAgnostic
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Nero: Camus agrees with

Nero: Camus agrees with Sartre as demonstrated in L'etranger. The main character kills a man to see how it feels and is executed for his crime.

Ok probably irrelivant to the discussion but The Outsider/The Stanger (The english translation titled "The Outsider" is in my opinion the better translation (of the text not the title), The Stranger uses more flowery language and loses the non-nonsense tone that I beleive is important to the message) Is one of my favorite books. Meursault (the main character) kills the man because he was semi-blinded by the sun/sweat (and If I remember correctly he had good reason to believe the guy had a knife and intended him harm). It was not "to see how it feels".

Don't you dare defame my hero Meursault. Sticking out tongue

Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!


canofbutter
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It's up to 'X'. 'X' may

It's up to 'X'. 'X' may not want to do anything rash because he/she may be able to find a reason to live some time later. At the same time, NO ONE should make that decision for 'X'; it's X's right to chose if he/she wants to live or die. Not enjoying life and not having goals is usually not a permanent situation nor is it impossible to overcome.

'X' would be throwing away his/her only life just because things aren't going so well for the time... I've been in that position before, and I'm certainly glad to have stuck it out. I may not have a whole lot of effect on society, but I've gone from having all 4 of those qualities to only having one of them (no dependents) by making conscious efforts to do so (buying a house, setting goals, finding reasons to live, experimenting with new hobbies to find ways to enjoy life, etc). If one can't overcome those problems on their own, there are plenty of professionals that can help with it.

As Richard Dawkins stated, "...this is the only life you're going to get. It's a precious life. It's a beautiful life. It's something that we should live to the full, to the end of our days..."

Why yes, I can believe it's not butter!