TogetherforPeace from youtube

fattychunks
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TogetherforPeace from youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tmid6sO_Ms

then his response to the official RRS response was just... ridiculous! watch the response by RRS, then watch his response. right away, it's incredibly obvious that he starts complaining about ridiculous petty things...


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No.. It's actually

No.. It's actually ridiculous to lable this person as, well, ridiculous. Many people are ridiculous, but how does that mean they are as right or as wrong as you are? He is a very intelligent human, who obviously studies a lot about what he talks about. IS that so wrong and ridiculous to do? Martin Luther King Jr. was pretty fucking ridiculous to start a million man march in the HEART OF THE SOUTH.

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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Ripple, the guy in the

Ripple, the guy in the video is ridiculous.  He looks like he's about to cry the whole time.  He's an emotional wreck over the Blasphemy Challenge.  Equating MLK with the guy in the video is well, just plain silly.  MLK's reasons were for equality and that's what atheists want to.  I can't even say a word at my kid's school regarding the use of "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance without people responding like I am a loose nut.  I think it's people like you that think everyone's got a right to their opinion unless it differs from your own.

 


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Talk to me, and realize I

Talk to me, and realize I am one who is just as quickly going to dismiss a lot of bullshit that you would dismiss. I'm not stupid, and I know none of you think that.

But label me, and him, and anyone else as intolerable, and ones who are quick to put others down, then well... What are you saying and feeling about yourself right now? How do YOU fit in that equation. Are you really helping the situation? Am I hurting the situation?

He's smart. He's radical. But we are all radical. In the minds of many 20th century thinkers... you are all VERY radical. God...doesn't exist? When did that idea come along? Are you all smarter then the rest of us God-worshiping folks because you have "disregarded the infallacies of religious and Romantic thinking"

Please, point out where me or that guy in the video, is really doing much to change other peoples opinion or thinking, other then just by asking questions. Answer his question. Why DO you all care about how much and wildly some people believe in this God. Do you really care?

I care because it is destroying the world. But noone is making it better. God isn't making it better, but is he really making it worse? Or is it human beings making things worse? Can someone answer that for me.. Can you Martha? Or you fattchunks? I can't answer it. So I can only ask questions. Correct?

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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Ripple wrote: Talk to me,

Ripple wrote:

Talk to me, and realize I am one who is just as quickly going to dismiss a lot of bullshit that you would dismiss. I'm not stupid, and I know none of you think that.

OK, you're right.

 

Ripple wrote:
But label me, and him, and anyone else as intolerable, and ones who are quick to put others down, then well... What are you saying and feeling about yourself right now? How do YOU fit in that equation. Are you really helping the situation? Am I hurting the situation?

 I feel frustrated at these questions because I've answered them and they are answered on this site many times.  So here I go again.  I fit in the equation because I am affected by religion everyday. EX. The "god bless you" when I sneeze.  It bugs me.  It goes way beyond that on a larger scale but this is a simple example, one in particular that gets me.  No Devil is going to come and steal my soul in the millisecond my heart stops when I sneeze, so I wish xtians would please stop using this crazy terminology.

I am helping the situation in trying to bring awareness to xtians  that they do not control everybody's mind/will.  They continually shove their book and beliefs down everyone's throat as if they KNOW and nobody else does.   I just want to say to that, if your god is true, he wants me to be atheist.  He made me this way.

You are only hurting the cause insofar that you are furthering the lies.  This is not your fault, I'm sure.  You were indoctrinated at some point and now feel like you should do your part by coming here and telling us that we are all wrong to believe the way we do.   

 


Ripple wrote:
He's smart. He's radical. But we are all radical. In the minds of many 20th century thinkers... you are all VERY radical. God...doesn't exist? When did that idea come along? Are you all smarter then the rest of us God-worshiping folks because you have "disregarded the infallacies of religious and Romantic thinking"

 

My xtian history professor is smart.  It doesn't mean that I have respect for his beliefs though.  I rather liked him very much.  I did not respect his beliefs though.  I think he was a good person.  But I didn't respect his belief.  I could possibly like you but I would not respect that belief.  It would not make a difference.  We are not smarter, special, mystical, etc.  We, on this site, all have one thing in common.  We just don't agree with a creation theory and a diety who created everything.  Don't take offense.  We don't believe in Allah or any other god.   



Ripple wrote:
Please, point out where me or that guy in the video, is really doing much to change other peoples opinion or thinking, other then just by asking questions. Answer his question. Why DO you all care about how much and wildly some people believe in this God. Do you really care?

 

You answer this question for me in your next statement.

Ripple wrote:
I care because it is destroying the world.

 

Ripple wrote:
But noone is making it better.

Yes, there are people who try.  I used to do a Food Not Bombs here in my town.  (You can do this too. You just go to grocery stores, restaurants, and bakeries and ask for food donations and tell them what you intend to do.  They are usually more than willing to get rid of day old, but still good food.  Then you post flyers around town Food Not Bombs, give a location such as a public park and time. Then make a big pot of soup and bring a bunch of bread and water and tea/coffee.  People come out of the woodwork and are very thankful).  Little things we all can do to try to make it better here.  I think religious people look around and are disgusted at what they see and they can't wait to finally get to heaven.  It doesn't help us here on earth.   Trying to make it better here means being proactive.

 

Ripple wrote:
God isn't making it better, but is he really making it worse?

Fictional characters rarely make it better. 

 

Ripple wrote:
Or is it human beings making things worse? Can someone answer that for me.. Can you Martha?

 Some humans are making it bad for all of us.  We just have to try to counter those with good acts.  

Ripple wrote:
Or you fattchunks? I can't answer it. So I can only ask questions. Correct?

 

Yeah, ask questions.  I'm sorry if I came off too "radical" or whatever but when people come here and start off with condescending behavior, I go on defensive mode.  I hope some of these things get cleared up for you.   


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I am a condescending ass.

I am a condescending ass. Always have, always will be. Live with it.

But so are you. You are for ignoring to truly open up and give your emotions a go and to tell me the truth about what you think of my idea and my conviction, but not ignoring to point out the fact that I AM an ass.

If I was president tomorrow, do you realize what book I would ban first? Just take a fucking guess. Peck away at my "Christian ignorance" and ask me what book I would burn first.

Tell me to go to the local park and give food to poor people? You know what you sound like? A fundamentalist Christian. Bah. But you know what, while reading that, what I wanted to do more then anything in the world at that point in time in my life? Go to the fucking park with 5 pots of soup, and a hundred loaves of bread.

You are so stuck on my belief system. You are no better then any Christian. Who CARES in what I believe in, other then, I believe in the common good of mankind? Don't atheist believe in that?

 

I HATE CHRISTIANITY. I HATE ISLAM. I HATE BUDDHISM. I HATE HINDUISM. I HATE AHTEISM. I HATE THEISM. I LOVE PHILOSOPHY AND I LOVE TO LAUGH AT THE IGNORANCE OF MANKIND. I LOVE GOD. Shoot me. Please. I'm doing much harm to the world. /sarcasm on/off

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


Ripple
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Why can't you see that

Why can't you see that people like me, and like Together for Peace, we are not your Christians you hate. We are decent people who are TOGETHER for PEACE. ANYONE for peace. That's why it is peace.

Some of you want evidence of why I think how I do? Then I point to the fact that the most spoken word in the Arabic language is peace.

Of course God is fictional. Why do you care then? You obviously care because "god" had ruined human existence. So what the fuck? Think about those things. Think about HOW and WHY and WHEN and for WHAT was "god" exploited for? Is it happiness? Or is it money?

Why can't "god" be an inspiration to billions of people as a means of humanitarian goodness. Because we can do that without God. Well if you know be by now, then you would realize I'm in the same fucking Boat with you on that one. But in all reality, and with complete realization, had this earth been run to the ground without the use of God, or with the use of God? So what happens in the future? Is the "Concept of God" the one who is being used as a tool of control and manipulation to have its way with Mother Earth? Who is really doing the raping, pillaging and flooding? God or you and I and Bush and Hitler? Did Christ seek out the witchs and burn them at the stake. No. You did. I did. We all did.

So fucking suck it up. Accept your actions, your actions as very imperfect beings on this planet, and take blame. Take blame, but realize there can be something done about it. And it does NOT start with blaming shit on God. You only drive differences between people, and you only destroy this common goal... this Togetherness for Peace. What kind of Christians would like to see world peace? The fucking rapture? You think Reverend Troy who touches little boys, is he going to heaven after the Rapture? No, but people like you and I, people who don't even accept the full existence of such a figure as Jesus Christ, those are the people who walk into heaven with their heads held high. Because we can make a difference. Does that mean I'm telling you to become a Christian, at least in my sense and thought. No. Absolutely not. That is the last thing I want from you , or any of you. Rather, I ask, think for yourself. And think rationally. And work together for something good. Peace? Love? Happiness? Call it whatever you want, just don't make it out to be a fucking religion. Because that is when failure begins.  

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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You are so caught up in your

You are so caught up in your nonsense that you didn't understand a fucking word I just said.  I am no longer responding to you.  Good day, fucking ass.


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I understand everything you

I understand everything you said. You let my emotions get to your emotions. I succeed, and human nature still fails. Good.

Didn't I already ask you not to post on anything I ever say? Cough. Choke.

Edit:God Bless You.

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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Did somebody hear a troll? 

Did somebody hear a troll?  Oh, ok then.  Me neither.


Ripple
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Then drown under a fucking

Then drown under a fucking bridge, because this troll, Alex, the crazy guy, needs to take his meds, is trying to drown himself. Right now. I'm trying to kill myself. (what is the beliefs on suicides? Catholics think suicides all go to Hell. that's a lot of smart and good people who are in hell right now, right? i haven't look into that too much but wouldn't that mean there are oh....millions of "human souls" in perpetual and figurative darkness and fear and fire for the rest of their lives)

Yeah guy, I'm trying to go to hell so you won't be able to respond to my provocations. Smother me.

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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Ripple wrote:

Ripple wrote:
No.. It's actually ridiculous to lable this person as, well, ridiculous. Many people are ridiculous, but how does that mean they are as right or as wrong as you are? He is a very intelligent human, who obviously studies a lot about what he talks about. IS that so wrong and ridiculous to do? Martin Luther King Jr. was pretty fucking ridiculous to start a million man march in the HEART OF THE SOUTH.

I am so glad you quoted him but are too blind to see the parallells between natural human disires, and say what Malcom X did.

I admire BOTH. I dissagree that either should have claimed a divine reason for their natural disire to be free from persicution. Both used different tactics AND NEITHER WAS WRONG, other than the existance of the deity they claimed.

I cant stand pollitically correct people. Be they Conservitive Christians with their revisionist history that all the founders never farted or did anything "sinfull". Some of them grew hemp. Some of them drank and some were womanizers who would make Bill Clinton look like a Chior boy.

Once again, the "lets play nice crowed" with their good intent dont realize human nature. WE ALL BITCH. Conservitives do it about liberals, liberals do it about conservitives. Christians do it about Muslims, Jews do it about Muslims, Muslims do it about them. We do it to just about everyone.

HERE IS THE KEY AND GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SCULL!

WE, all have the same emotions and the same disires and the same goals in the end. WE all want to speek our minds when we feel the need. WE all get frustrated with life and WE all want to express that frustration.

HERE IS WHAT THE LEFT AND RIGHT DONT GET

BOTH CAN AND SHOULD SAY WHAT THEY WANT

What both sides miss:

1. WE DONT HAVE TO KILL OVER WORDS!

2. WE SHOULD ALL BE ABLE TO EXPRESS OUR EMOTIONS

3. WE DONT HAVE TO ACT ON OUR EMOTIONS

 

I am so tired of People like Falwell and Al Sharpton deciding which version of Jesus should run OUR country as much as I am tired of Sunni's and Shi ites fighting over which version of Allah should run theirs.

If common law provides for bitching but doesnt allow for murder, we all can complain without fear of arrest or physicall harm.

If your belief  requires protection from "hurt feelings" that will more likely cause you to do violent acts than someone who does not take it personally and is willing to stick to debate.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Quote: Yeah guy I'm not a

Quote:
Yeah guy

I'm not a guy. 


Ripple
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Don't YOU see that you are

Don't YOU see that you are no different then anyone else. No other atheist and no other christian. Because you won't see past the fact that I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN. Look... I'm sitting here, informing you I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN. I'm a philosopher. And for you to sit here and try and preach to me about human behavior and how to use different methods to achieve a common worldly goal? Do I really seem so fucking asinine to you? Seriously? Because if you think so low of me, please, don't respond to me. If you have an ounce of seriousness in you about me, then shake loose your MISCONCEPTION about me and my beliefs. Because my beliefs are not of Allah, or of the Christian God, or any other fucking man made God.

I didn't want to preach a god damn thing I believe in, but if I must then I must, because God to me, if I can call it anything, it is electricity. And the Akashic Records. So don't fucking sit here and preach to me like I'm some kind of god damn boy toucher. Do I sound like a Christian? Do I sound like a God-fearing human being? If you think I do, stand in line to be in for a big fucking shock.

Natural, you are right. Gaia has fucking awoken, because It's people like ME or are sitting here asking, why do you all give a fuck about Gaia? Do you care that Christians are pouring millions of tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere? Because that is who is doing it. Christians, and Muslims, and Buddhists. Not me, or TogetherforPeace or the Dalai Lama. George fucking Bush. Adolf Hitler. Who elected those people? Theist and Atheists alike. So preach to me about human behavior and emotion and let me give you swift judo chop to the fucking throat. Swallow your pride then, atheist.

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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Any atheists in here vote

Any atheists in here vote for Bush?


Ripple
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So who did you vote for?

So who did you vote for? John Kerry? Bah. Don't you see? IT doesn't matter who you vote for. All people in high political office are at a high risk of corruption and devotion to a cause which might be destructive in this world. What are they being elected by Theists and Atheists alike. There are many Atheists in this world now, if they are so smart, how come they aren't running the world?

1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god.


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My video response to the

My video response to the whole blasphemy challenge thing was laid out in a very methodic and rational way. The purpose was to educate people with regards to what they were actually doing and how it was NOT blasphemy of the Holy Spirt nor an unforgivable sin.

I'd be interested as to what petty things you thought I was talking about.

peace,

Jack

aka: lifeoApollos, togetherforpeace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X32fKXLxYtY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tmid6sO_Ms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ncmRd_WDM

 


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MarthaSplatterhead

MarthaSplatterhead wrote:

Ripple, the guy in the video is ridiculous. He looks like he's about to cry the whole time. He's an emotional wreck over the Blasphemy Challenge...

Why exactly am I ridiculous? What does the fact that I look like I'm about to cry have anything to do with the content of the video? (I understand Brian thought it was somehow intentional that my eyes looked watery, which I find funny,..if you look at my videos you'll see my eyes look the same in most of them). No doubt it's interesting that you or fattychunks have yet to address the content of the videos I've posted up. It's okay I completely understand you probably aren't very interested in knowing what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Be sure to check my eyes out on these vids let me know if I look like I'm about to cry again Smiling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X32fKXLxYtY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ncmRd_WDM

 

peace,

Jack

aka...lifeofapollos, togetherforpeace


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LifeofApollos wrote: No

LifeofApollos wrote:

No doubt it's interesting that you or fattychunks have yet to address the content of the videos I've posted up.

If someone says the moon is made of green cheese, there will be people who will merely laugh and find no need to address it.  You just met two of them.

 

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Sapient wrote: If someone

Sapient wrote:

If someone says the moon is made of green cheese, there will be people who will merely laugh and find no need to address it.  You just met two of them.

Yes, well that's a very nice saying. So basically you're saying their approach is, 'hey what you believe in is silly and not worth an intelligent response....so instead how about I just laugh at you."

I find great benefit in understanding literature of antiquity and properly studying it so as to have an adequate grasp as to its message. I realize not all people share this same value and would like to categorize the Bible as nothing more than a book to be dismissed and laughed at.

I do find it somewhat odd that these same people would use passages from the Bible to commit what they believe to be 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit' but are unwilling to concede that indeed they are doing nothing of the sort. 

 

 

 


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"No doubt it's interesting

"No doubt it's interesting that you or fattychunks have yet to address the content of the videos I've posted up."

 

actually i have, i have in a lot fo videos. i hate wasting my time in repeating myself and i generally only talk to people or make videos for people that address questions to me. in general, i dont go looking for the arguments. and i had seen some good attempts at correcting your issues. 


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ok well if you can give me

ok well if you can give me the link to these videos that address the points i bring up in my videos id appreciate it.

peace


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Ripple wrote: Why can't you

Ripple wrote:
Why can't you see that people like me, and like Together for Peace, we are not your Christians you hate. We are decent people who are TOGETHER for PEACE. ANYONE for peace. That's why it is peace.

There is a theist phrase I've heard that has a value to counter this. The road to evil is paved with good intentions.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote: Ripple

Vastet wrote:
Ripple wrote:
Why can't you see that people like me, and like Together for Peace, we are not your Christians you hate. We are decent people who are TOGETHER for PEACE. ANYONE for peace. That's why it is peace.
There is a theist phrase I've heard that has a value to counter this. The road to evil is paved with good intentions.


Did MLK Jr. traverse the road to evil?


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hello wrote: Vastet

hello wrote:
Vastet wrote:
Ripple wrote:
Why can't you see that people like me, and like Together for Peace, we are not your Christians you hate. We are decent people who are TOGETHER for PEACE. ANYONE for peace. That's why it is peace.
There is a theist phrase I've heard that has a value to counter this. The road to evil is paved with good intentions.


Did MLK Jr. traverse the road to evil?

I don't know. I'm not American, and he doesn't mean much to me. I never learned about him in school. But it isn't relevant. It's a reality. Good intentions can lead to harmful acts. It doesn't mean they always do, but when looking at religions it's obvious that they cause more harm than good. Whether they mean to or not.

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Well, it is relevant

Well, it is relevant because we're talking about intentions here. Here is information about MLK Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.
I think this is enough information to make a judgement on MLK Jr. and where his intentions lead him.

What do you think about MLK Jr.? 

His case is worth examining in this thread.


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hello wrote: Well, it is

hello wrote:

Well, it is relevant because we're talking about intentions here. Here is information about MLK Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.
I think this is enough information to make a judgement on MLK Jr. and where his intentions lead him.

What do you think about MLK Jr.? 

His case is worth examining in this thread.

I don't believe it is relevant, and don't believe I'm qualified to judge another based on a wikipedia article. Regardless of the situation surrounding him; whether he did good things and got a good result, or bad things and a good result, or bad things and a bad result, or good things and a bad result is not the issue. The fact is that any of these scenarios are possible. And therefore irrational support of intentions is to be avoided at all cost. One good priest doesn't mean a good religion. It means one good priest.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Ripple wrote: I didn't

Ripple wrote:


I didn't want to preach a god damn thing I believe in, but if I must then I must, because God to me, if I can call it anything, it is electricity. And the Akashic Records. So don't fucking sit here and preach to me like I'm some kind of god damn boy toucher. Do I sound like a Christian? Do I sound like a God-fearing human being? If you think I do, stand in line to be in for a big fucking shock.

Ripple is not a theist. 



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"1 in 5 Americans believe we

"1 in 5 Americans believe we live in a Geocentric solar system. Who do you blame for that? God? I blame god."

hahahahaha


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Vastet wrote: hello

Vastet wrote:
hello wrote:

Well, it is relevant because we're talking about intentions here. Here is information about MLK Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.
I think this is enough information to make a judgement on MLK Jr. and where his intentions lead him.

What do you think about MLK Jr.?

His case is worth examining in this thread.

I don't believe it is relevant, and don't believe I'm qualified to judge another based on a wikipedia article. Regardless of the situation surrounding him; whether he did good things and got a good result, or bad things and a good result, or bad things and a bad result, or good things and a bad result is not the issue. The fact is that any of these scenarios are possible. And therefore irrational support of intentions is to be avoided at all cost. One good priest doesn't mean a good religion. It means one good priest.


I think you're taking the easy way out of this one. Here we can examine intentions with an exemplary case study. Regardless of whether religion is involved, the scenarios you presented are always there.  In general, when would these scenarios be absent? Would they be absent if MLK was an atheist?

If you think so, then approach it that way; assume MLK was an atheist, and then take a look at his intentions, life, goals, and the "good things" that may have come of it. (or the bad things--do you think there are any bad things as a result of his actions?)  This is  an  interesting topic.  Don't let it go simply for lack of effort.


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Hello Jack,   First of all

Hello Jack,

 

First of all I belief your response to the blasphemy challenge is sincere and honest, and thus I shall try to respond in a similar honest way.

 

You ask the atheist who took the blasphemy challenge why they're so concerned with blasphemising the holy spirit. And you ask as us if we do choose to blasphemise the holy spirit, to do so with a proper understanding of what we do.

 

The latter point can be easily answered, by contrast to the way you appeal on christian scholars. You consider the readings of those scholars authorative for interpreting the bible, and claim that they have any epistemological validity in what it means to utter "I deny the holy spirit". 

Well I think I can speak for every atheist that we do not consider Christian scholars authorative in how we should intepret the biblical texts, let alone that we agree that any readings of the bible has any meaning for undestanding any physical or metaphysical sphere. Thus by an atheist saying "I deny the holy spirit" is meant, I take the entire negation of what is presupposed in this thing called 'blasphemy'.

 

And this brings us to the answer to your first question "Why are we so concerned with blasphemising the holy spirit". There isn't much concern in an existential sense, as an atheist not parttaking in the blasphemy challenge it still remains a rational justified belief to deny any such thing as the holy spirit or any other neurological kink that claims home in the realm of the metaphysical.

 

You constantly hammer on the fact that it we should be more thorough in researching the subject before undertaking such a challenge. But as I have made clear above, such research is not neccessitated by the fact that we are atheist. It is (at least for most) education that lead us to become atheistic, it was reason that made the christian scholar conclude that by philosopy (practice of reason) you can only infer to philosophical gods, thus belief and reason should be seperated fundamentally.

 

But I go besides the point; so If as an atheist we are not so inclined to understand blasphemy from a theist c.q. biblical viewpoint what so important about it?

 

It's a matter of action, a matter of polemic, a matter of civilized conflict. Societies that are founded on a liberal democratic paradigm cannot be just if they neglect secularity, such societies cannot be just if they invalidate those who do not share the belief in a god. Those societies give in to irrationality instead of being lead by rationality, and although irrationality in itself is not morally wrong it can never be the governing feature of a society. 

 

Why blasphemise? To stir things up a little, to give a wake up call to those who belief they have the right to enforce beliefs upon people without attending to the test of whether that belief can be expected from everyone. Sure your bible says we are all children of God, but reason cannot lead me to that insight and I chose not to pervert my brain with speculative enquiries into mystical realms. And thus I cannot be governed under such pretences.

 

If you do not understand this, I'm afraid you lack empathy.  

 


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hello wrote: I think you're

hello wrote:
I think you're taking the easy way out of this one.

I don't see it, but I won't deny the possibility out of hand. It will have to wait until later tonight however, as I'm out of time.

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Vastet...you said, "but

Vastet...you said, "but when looking at religions it's obvious that they cause more harm than good. Whether they mean to or not."

Can you give any studies that show religion has a harmful impact on an individuals ability to reason or be intellectual?

What proof do you have that religions do more harm than good?

What do you constitute as 'harmful'?

peace,

Jack


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Vastet wrote: One good

Vastet wrote:
One good priest doesn't mean a good religion. It means one good priest.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'bad' and 'good' but do you believe that the majority of Christians are 'bad' people? Why or why not?


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Digital_Babu wrote: Well

Digital_Babu wrote:

 Well I think I can speak for every atheist that we do not consider Christian scholars authorative in how we should intepret the biblical texts, let alone that we agree that any readings of the bible has any meaning for undestanding any physical or metaphysical sphere. Thus by an atheist saying "I deny the holy spirit" is meant, I take the entire negation of what is presupposed in this thing called 'blasphemy'.

Thank you for your response. It stands to reason that the followers of an ancient text most likely have a good understanding of what their text says and means. In my videos I was clear to point out the concensus amongst Christians from the early stages of Christianity to today regarding the meaning of the blasphemy passages.

You saying that you don't consider Christian scholars to be authoritative is like me saying I don't see the concensus amongst scientists regarding the age of the earth to be authoritative.

The Bible is literature of antiquity and as such I believe that scholars of the Bible, much like scientists, are worth listening to and considering when attempting to arrive at a proper understanding of the meaning of a passage. Of course the Bible like science are both open for individual study and research, however, for someone to outright dismiss the concensus amongst Christians regarding the meaning of these passages is a foolish act.

If I picked up a fossil and said well this is about 4,000 years old and you said to me, "Jack, there's a concensus among scientists that this fossil is 20,000 years old." Using your same reasoning I could reply back, "I don't consider scientists authoritative as to how I can arrive at a proper date of this fossil."

The Bible has over 1,500 years worth of writing, over 40 different authors, with a vast array of literary genres being implored. For an individual who doesn't understand basic principles of interpretation to think they can simply pick up the Bible and gain a true and accurate understanding of passages such as the ones we're discussing is absurd. 

peace,

Jack 


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hello wrote: Here we can

hello wrote:
Here we can examine intentions with an exemplary case study. Regardless of whether religion is involved, the scenarios you presented are always there.  In general, when would these scenarios be absent? Would they be absent if MLK was an atheist?

Lets reverse the scenario you posit, to show how one example for your case is irrelevant. George W Bush. His intentions are good enough. Support and spread freedom and democracy. Bring to justice those who would destory the aforementioned. Yet then you look at the result. Tens of thousands of dead Iraqi's and Afghani's. Thousands of dead Americans, and soldiers from other countries. Thousands of innocents prosecuted through off soil prisons to avoid American law. Abu Ghraib. Nuclear intentions from Iran and North Korea as self defense measures against Bush's blanket statement of "you're either with us or against us". And look, Georgie boy is a theist. He mentions god every chance he gets. He uses god to forward his desires. Because the majority of Americans believe in the same god, he has actually pulled all this crap off, and insanely been reelected to cause even more harm.

hello wrote:
If you think so, then approach it that way; assume MLK was an atheist, and then take a look at his intentions, life, goals, and the "good things" that may have come of it. (or the bad things--do you think there are any bad things as a result of his actions?)  This is  an  interesting topic.  Don't let it go simply for lack of effort.

I'm not about to let the topic go, but I don't see a need to read up on this guy when I already acknowledge that sometimes good intentions can lead to good results. They do not always.

LifeofApollos wrote:
Vastet wrote:
One good priest doesn't mean a good religion. It means one good priest.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'bad' and 'good' but do you believe that the majority of Christians are 'bad' people? Why or why not?

I've never met a true christian, so I can't judge them. As far as I can tell they don't exist. I can't even judge those who claim to be christian, since I don't know most of them. But history shows the christians are as guilty of terrorist acts as moslems or jews or any other religions members are. Most of those acts are carried out simply because of their god being offended by "infidels".

LifeofApollos wrote:

Vastet...you said, "but when looking at religions it's obvious that they cause more harm than good. Whether they mean to or not."

Can you give any studies that show religion has a harmful impact on an individuals ability to reason or be intellectual?

What proof do you have that religions do more harm than good?

What do you constitute as 'harmful'?

peace,

Jack

The crusades are more than enough on their own. But then I can also point to witch burning, al qaeda, slavery, missionaries, the KKK, and probably a thousand other disgusting acts and/or organizations. Studies are not required in the face of such concrete evidence.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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LifeofApollos

You say you've never met a true Christian and that you can't judge and yet you say things like, "...when looking at religions it's obvious that they cause more harm than good."

With regards to Christianity, as that's what I am and know, you are basing your belief that Christianity has done more harm than good upon the Crusades? Yet at the same time not judging Christians?

I see violence, the lust for power, and wealth, as products of human nature that would exist regardless of religion and there are most certainly cases in history in which atheistic run governments were responsible for some of the worst atrocities.

Based upon your reasoning I should conclude that atheism does more harm than good because I can give you historical proof of great persecution and suffering that was the product of individuals and/or governments that were atheistic. This of course would be flawed reasoning and as such I stay away from using such arguments.

peace,

Jack


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LifeofApollos wrote: You

LifeofApollos wrote:
You say you've never met a true Christian and that you can't judge and yet you say things like, "...when looking at religions it's obvious that they cause more harm than good.

This is not contradictory. I can judge religion on the history of religion. I will not judge every individual within religion when I know that religion is divided more than anything else I can think of.

LifeofApollos wrote:

With regards to Christianity, as that's what I am and know, you are basing your belief that Christianity has done more harm than good upon the Crusades?

As mentioned, that is merely one example. And I attack every religion, not just christianity.

LifeofApollos wrote:
Yet at the same time not judging Christians?

I'm judging religion, not every single follower within every single religion. Any generalization is inherrently errant. So I don't tend to make them. I judge religion itself.

LifeofApollos wrote:
I see violence, the lust for power, and wealth, as products of human nature that would exist regardless of religion and there are most certainly cases in history in which atheistic run governments were responsible for some of the worst atrocities.

Never in the name of atheism though. Whereas every religious crime has been done in the name of that religion. There is no comparison between them at all. No atheist I've ever heard of proclaimed "I kill you because there is no god". Plenty of theists have proclaimed "I kill you because god says to".

LifeofApollos wrote:
Based upon your reasoning I should conclude that atheism does more harm than good because I can give you historical proof of great persecution and suffering that was the product of individuals and/or governments that were atheistic.

No, you can't. No government has ever been based on atheism. No government has taken action in the name of atheism. Atheism is a simple state of no theism. Like darkness is the absense of light. It is incapable of being responsible for anything, by definition.

LifeofApollos wrote:
This of course would be flawed reasoning and as such I stay away from using such arguments.
peace, Jack

Good to know that you recognize such.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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The point I was making was

The point I was making was that atheist do not consider christian scholars authorative, since atheist in itself does not fall in the realm of theological debate.

 

So an appeal to the authority theological studies is no answer to the blasphemy challenge, since the blasphemy challenge in it's core is polemic and not a theological statement.