End Times Debunked – Calling All Scholars!

dassercha
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End Times Debunked – Calling All Scholars!

Revelation 13 talks about the beasts. One who “seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4Men worshiped the dragon…8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—”

            Now, just about everybody at this point in time, 21st century knows about the book of Revelation, Anti-Christ, the Beast, 666, save for a few remote villagers here & there, thanks in part to missionaries who have gone to the “ends of the earth” to proclaim the “good news.”

So how is it that, “All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast,” Rev. 13:8, and the second one will do the following:“And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men,” Rev. 13:13, when everybody will know at this point, here in the 21st  century, EXACTLY what to expect?

You see, when dude/-ette starts “causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men,” etc., you’ll have the following two (2) camps:

A)    Christians who will say, “Hey, this is Revelations revealed right here! We’re not buying it!”

B)     Agnostics/Skeptics who either say, “Hey, this is Revelations revealed right here! We’re not buying it!” OR “This is BS, have him perform these ‘miracles’ in a controlled environment.”

End result?

People of Earth: 1

Anti-Christ: 0

Thoughts?

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You've debunked nothing...

You've debunked nothing... the obvious error in your idea is that a)people are stupid and b)people are faithful to their respective religions.  So if they see this guy doing some crazy shit they will either think a)hey... this guy is cool - he might be God!!! or b)well, Allah didn't say anything about this guy, but he's charasmatic enough... I'll support him.

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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xamination wrote: You've

xamination wrote:
You've debunked nothing... the obvious error in your idea is that a)people are stupid and b)people are faithful to their respective religions. So if they see this guy doing some crazy shit they will either think a)hey... this guy is cool - he might be God!!! or b)well, Allah didn't say anything about this guy, but he's charasmatic enough... I'll support him.

 

Hey thanks for taking the time to not really read my post and not think about what I wrote. Take a few days to ponder it... 

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One:  I am the only person

One:  I am the only person to reply to your initial post besides yourself

Two:  I did consider your idea, and I stated that you "debunked" nothing.  The fact is that people will always believe in things that aren't true, and that people will always be mislead.  Think about it.  If a man strolled into Washington and started calling down lightning bolts and proclaimed himself God, I'd be more likely to believe in him than, say, Jim Jones.

Three:  Don't be offended when someone refutes your idea.  it happens a lot 'round here, trust.  Respond to my claims and then we will have a real debate going on.  Unless you TRUELY believe that you, the great genius you are, debunked all of Revelations with an undeniable fact that humanity has missed for hundreds of years.  In that case call a press conference. 

Four:  That was all in good fun, mind you. 

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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Please remember that this

Please remember that this is the Kill 'Em With Kindness forums and the rules are more stringent here.

Please no personal insults or name-callings.

Thanks! 

 

 

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xamination wrote:

xamination wrote:

One: I am the only person to reply to your initial post besides yourself

Two: I did consider your idea, and I stated that you "debunked" nothing. The fact is that people will always believe in things that aren't true, and that people will always be mislead. Think about it. If a man strolled into Washington and started calling down lightning bolts and proclaimed himself God, I'd be more likely to believe in him than, say, Jim Jones.

Three: Don't be offended when someone refutes your idea. it happens a lot 'round here, trust. Respond to my claims and then we will have a real debate going on. Unless you TRUELY believe that you, the great genius you are, debunked all of Revelations with an undeniable fact that humanity has missed for hundreds of years. In that case call a press conference.

Four: That was all in good fun, mind you.

 

*sigh* i'll bite, unfortunately won't be able to post for 24 hrs.

a. where do you get "people are stupid" from the post? I actually implied people now are more literate and bible savvy than ever before. Xianity is THE most popular religion in the world. Go up to any random person in the street, ask them what "666" is and most people in this world would at least have a clue, especially in the West. Muslims are intolerant of ANYTHING non-muslim. No way they'd buy this.

b. the 2 events talked about in Rev. 13 state EXACTLY what will happen, PLUS that it will happen "before all men," AND that they will be baffled, etc. So, the majority of all people in the world who already know about this will witness this but will somehow suffer mass amnesia. Riiiiight. Great conspiracy theory, though. I kinda like it...

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Susan - it was all in fun,

Susan - it was all in fun, but I'll play nice.

Your first assumption is that people are smart.  That is not true.  Want proof?  Go to a McDonalds and find the person who can't make change WITH a calculator.  I could get off topic here, but I won't.  Second, people, especially on this site, want PROOF that there is a God.  "If there was a God, why wouldn't he come down and reveal himself?"  That is what the Anatichrist is supposed to do.  He'll come down(or up) throw some fire and lightning bolts around, do some miracles, sing a few songs, and millions will come to worship him.  I offer the fact that many have followed false messiahs, from David Koresh to the formentioned Jim Jones.  They had NO powers yet many flocked to them.  

There are another group of people who will recognize that this was prophisized.  But that doesn't mean they'll follow God.  Why?  The Antichrist will be on Earth, will be as powerful as hell(an expression), and will be persecuting all the Christians he can lay his hands on.  Why pick God when the penalty might be death?

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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xamination wrote: Your

xamination wrote:
Your first assumption is that people are smart.  That is not true.  Want proof?  Go to a McDonalds and find the person who can't make change WITH a calculator.

The obvious problem with this assertion is that it does in no way apply to the species in general. The average kid in grade 2 can pull off calculating change without a calculator, let alone with one.

xamination wrote:
  Second, people, especially on this site, want PROOF that there is a God.  "If there was a God, why wouldn't he come down and reveal himself?"  That is what the Anatichrist is supposed to do.  He'll come down(or up) throw some fire and lightning bolts around, do some miracles, sing a few songs, and millions will come to worship him.

It's going to take a lot more than fireballs and lightning bolts to satisfy the average skeptic. I can cast fireballs and lightning bolts, but I'm no god. The only way for god to prove that it is god is to create as per holy texts. If the anti-christ is capable of this, then it raises the question of whether the christians have been worshipping the wrong person for the last 2000 odd years, since supposedly only god can create. So yes, some indeed may follow this anti christ if it showed up. But not all would.

xamination wrote:
I offer the fact that many have followed false messiahs, from David Koresh to the formentioned Jim Jones.  They had NO powers yet many flocked to them.

Yet more did not flock to them. Most did not flock to them. So this just shows how people are generally intelligent to some extent.

xamination wrote:
There are another group of people who will recognize that this was prophisized.  But that doesn't mean they'll follow God.  Why?  The Antichrist will be on Earth, will be as powerful as hell(an expression), and will be persecuting all the Christians he can lay his hands on.  Why pick God when the penalty might be death?

The obvious flaw is that if there is a god, and it is the christian one, then death is irrelevant. The anti-christ can only touch your soul if you let it. So it doesn't really matter.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Remeber, though, that

Remeber, though, that according to Revelations, God would be in the midst of ravaging the Earth when the Antichrist comes to the front.  Many who did recognize that this was God would not follow because he killed mom, dad, brother, etc. with that one plague.

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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dassercha

dassercha wrote:

Revelation 13 talks about the beasts. One who “seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4Men worshiped the dragon…8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—”

Now, just about everybody at this point in time, 21st century knows about the book of Revelation, Anti-Christ, the Beast, 666, save for a few remote villagers here & there, thanks in part to missionaries who have gone to the “ends of the earth” to proclaim the “good news.”

So how is it that, “All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast,” Rev. 13:8, and the second one will do the following:“And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men,” Rev. 13:13, when everybody will know at this point, here in the 21st century, EXACTLY what to expect?

You see, when dude/-ette starts “causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men,” etc., you’ll have the following two (2) camps:

A) Christians who will say, “Hey, this is Revelations revealed right here! We’re not buying it!”

B) Agnostics/Skeptics who either say, “Hey, this is Revelations revealed right here! We’re not buying it!” OR “This is BS, have him perform these ‘miracles’ in a controlled environment.”

End result?

People of Earth: 1

Anti-Christ: 0

Thoughts?

 

Just wondering, as an aside (not to redirect), but it talks about the one who "seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed."  Then goes on desribe it as a dragon.  Is there any other mention any where in the bible about a fatally wounded dragon?  I know the bible makes a lot of indirect references to older religions, and this one seems to fall right into the lap of the Summerian view if the end of days.  Where the serpent Tiamat (who was previously dead but dreaming) awakens and commences what she does best, causing chaos, destruction and anarchy.  Tiamat was killed by Marduk and he used her head to create the earth, and her body to create the sky, so her awakening would surely be similar to the biblical catastrophes mentioned, not to mention she'd be hella pissed!

 Any thoughts?

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xamination wrote:Remeber,

xamination wrote:
Remeber, though, that according to Revelations, God would be in the midst of ravaging the Earth when the Antichrist comes to the front.  Many who did recognize that this was God would not follow because he killed mom, dad, brother, etc. with that one plague.

And why exactly should people follow a god who is so callous? Personally, if god did exist, I'd tell him to go fuck himself. Then I'd tell the same thing to satan. Then I'd demand release from their tyranny. The christian/moslem/jewish/etc god is so against my moral ethics that I am incapable of following it, even if it did exist. And I know it doesn't exist.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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xamination wrote: Remeber,

xamination wrote:
Remeber, though, that according to Revelations, God would be in the midst of ravaging the Earth when the Antichrist comes to the front.  Many who did recognize that this was God would not follow because he killed mom, dad, brother, etc. with that one plague.

Excuse me... Revelations talk about almost senseless destruction of the Earth... billions of people all dying in one instant. I doubt there would be anyone to dispute or follow anything. They'll just hang on to their faiths, as most people do when something on a large scale that is disastruous happens. They will all stay indoors, tucked there nice and hiding, hoping that it will all end and muttering the names of their own god(s). I don't see anyone coming out of their home saying "Ahh... I like the smell of fresh carnage in the morning... Hey, is that Venus falling? Oh, and that guy up there looks cool, hurling fireballs and that..."

You seem to have a false dilemma here. You indicate (and this refers to both sides) only two possibilities, when, in fact, there is at least one more: nobody actually doing anything, just hiding, in front of the massive destruction and death.

So dassercha - I doubt what you said would happen, because although people were warned, everybody can realize that trying to oppose an omnipotent God is futile.

And xamination - I don't think it would matter if God was walking naked on the streets and having sex with <replace with name of beautiful female celebrity> in public, I doubt that, when realizing the ammount of destruction going on, humans would care.

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Let me clarify - God will be

Let me clarify - God will be up in heaven but destroying the Earth, and the Antichrist will be on the Earth, doing miracles and openly opposing God.  So yes, many would stick with their religions; I said that earlier.  Some will not recognize that it is God.  Some will, yet stick with the Antichrist.  The remaining ones will side with God.

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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xamination wrote: Let me

xamination wrote:
Let me clarify - God will be up in heaven but destroying the Earth, and the Antichrist will be on the Earth, doing miracles and openly opposing God.  So yes, many would stick with their religions; I said that earlier.  Some will not recognize that it is God.  Some will, yet stick with the Antichrist.  The remaining ones will side with God.

So god is killing everything and satan is helping people and performing good deeds and you say the guy to follow is the destroyer? And you don't see a problem with this? You call yourself moral?

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Well, the Antichrist won't

Well, the Antichrist won't actually be helping many people - it will just look like he is from a distance.  And I'm not saying what will happen is moral or immoral, I was just responding to the thread's claims.

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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xamination wrote: Well, the

xamination wrote:
Well, the Antichrist won't actually be helping many people - it will just look like he is from a distance.

You mean like televangilists? No big deal. Most people who follow them aren't worth mentioning in the first place. Satan being a televangilist will merely guarantee that few follow him/her.

xamination wrote:
  And I'm not saying what will happen is moral or immoral, I was just responding to the thread's claims.

Perhaps you aren't, but I say it is immoral and therefore self contradictory.

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Quote: Well, the Antichrist

Quote:
Well, the Antichrist won't actually be helping many people - it will just look like he is from a distance.

Oh, now, well excuse me for having (same as all humans) the natural tendency to stick to whoever at least seems that he could help me survive such a time of crisis. Oh, and forgive me for being frail enough to not even be able to withstand a measly comet falling down on earth and kiilling one third of the human population.

I do believe there's soemone to blame for me being like this. It's called "the creator", and I think he runs by the name of "God"...

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hellfiend666

hellfiend666 wrote:
dassercha wrote:
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--><!--[endif]-->

Revelation 13 talks about the beasts. One who “seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4Men worshiped the dragon…8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—”

Now, just about everybody at this point in time, 21st century knows about the book of Revelation, Anti-Christ, the Beast, 666, save for a few remote villagers here & there, thanks in part to missionaries who have gone to the “ends of the earth” to proclaim the “good news.”

So how is it that, “All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast,” Rev. 13:8, and the second one will do the following:“And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men,” Rev. 13:13, when everybody will know at this point, here in the 21st century, EXACTLY what to expect?

You see, when dude/-ette starts “causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men,” etc., you’ll have the following two (2) camps:

<!--[if !supportLists]-->A) <!--[endif]-->Christians who will say, “Hey, this is Revelations revealed right here! We’re not buying it!”

<!--[if !supportLists]-->B) <!--[endif]-->Agnostics/Skeptics who either say, “Hey, this is Revelations revealed right here! We’re not buying it!” OR “This is BS, have him perform these ‘miracles’ in a controlled environment.”

End result?

People of Earth: 1

Anti-Christ: 0

Thoughts?

 

Just wondering, as an aside (not to redirect), but it talks about the one who "seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed."  Then goes on desribe it as a dragon.  Is there any other mention any where in the bible about a fatally wounded dragon?  I know the bible makes a lot of indirect references to older religions, and this one seems to fall right into the lap of the Summerian view if the end of days.  Where the serpent Tiamat (who was previously dead but dreaming) awakens and commences what she does best, causing chaos, destruction and anarchy.  Tiamat was killed by Marduk and he used her head to create the earth, and her body to create the sky, so her awakening would surely be similar to the biblical catastrophes mentioned, not to mention she'd be hella pissed!

 Any thoughts?

 

The red dragon is communism.  The wall fell but the dragon rises.

 

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2006-35,RNWE:en&q=fatima+russia+errors

 

 

 


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Yeah, that's what I thought

Yeah, that's what I thought too. The red dragon = communism. That's what I was taught anyway. And the two thirds of the world are killed by a war with 200 million soliders that is started by the Euphrates river (can anyone find Iraq on a map?) And isn't the anti-christ guy a human? Specifically a politician who does everything under the guise of creating peace on earth whilst actually making things worse and proclaiming that he is god? If I had to pick between a politician and... well, anyone... I would seriously consider the random non-politician! : D Either way, Bible or no Bible, it looks as though we are destined for a world government, a big damn war in the middle east and Isreal building a new temple and signing a peace covernent. I'll wait until I see the animal sacrifices resuming with my own eyes before I believe that one - can't imagine Greenpeace letting that slip!


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I have some news.No Bible

I have some news.

No Bible phrophacy has been proven to have come true. 

All bible Phrophacies have however failed to date.

They are read out of context and the time they were written for.

Christians quote them but not the important one.

Jesus say's " All these things shall happen before this generation passes.

IT WAS OVER 2000 year ago --- 'You Missed it by that much 99'

As for end of the world.  Hundreds and possibly over a thousand predictions of ,

the End is nigh are scattered through history and we are still here.

One chuch who failed in 1915 took the unusual option to declare the world had indeed ended as phrophacised and if you did not notice that was your problem.   (Religious Faith makes the foolish believe the fool I guess)

The serpent  I think is Tiamat - from Babalonia

"In Babylonian mythology[1], Tiamat is the sea, personified as a goddess,[2] and a monstrous embodiment of primordial chaos.[3] In the Enûma Elish, the Babylonian epic of creation, she gives birth to the first generation of gods"

Not unexpected - when the Isralites first wrote down the OT they had returned from bondage in Babalonia scholars have identified the influence and adoption of Babalonian Mythology into there own.  A case of mine is bigger than yours!!!!

The Original invention of our monothestic god can be traced to the combining of a least 3 older gods.

Just as an after thought- the spread of intolerant monotheastic religion corrisponds to the spread of War and conflict since around 4000 BCE.