Rational Debate

Respect_Truth
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Rational Debate

To whom it may concern:
            The reason I am coming on this is not to debate online. I ask that you would come to Liberty University to debate some of the greatest thinkers in Christianity that are alive. I know that you feel that you have proven that there is no god and to believe in such is irrational. However, I ask that you would come with only two rules: the rules of logic apply and that no one would make any profit out of it. The CDs or DVDs would be sold and the cost would be the making of the disc. You can bring who ever you would like: including Dawkins, Carrier, Harris, or Price. This is the chance that both sides have been waiting for. This would not be a trap and there is no hidden agenda. Respect will be shown to both sides (no booing or clapping). The only clapping should be when people are introduced and after the debate. For more information go to http://www.liberty.edu/academics/religion/seminary/index.cfm?PID=6969 or call 434.592.3338 or email ecaner@liberty.edu.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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can we bring theists as

can we bring theists as long as their aren't christians? 

Quote:
to believe in such is irrational
 

Care to back that up, oh wait, you said that you wouldn't debate online. Just assert without backing up. 

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You can bring whoever you

You can bring whoever you want to my knowledge. I didnt mean any disrespect in that comment. Just call or email Dr. Caner and he will explain any questions you have about the debate. Thank you for answering me.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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Respect_Truth wrote: To

Respect_Truth wrote:

To whom it may concern:
The reason I am coming on this is not to debate online. I ask that you would come to Liberty University to debate some of the greatest thinkers in Christianity that are alive.

Good, because I wouldn't want to debate one that is dead, although their powers of logic are about the same as those who are alive.

Quote:
 

 I know that you feel that you have proven that there is no god and to believe in such is irrational.

Actually, most atheists who are alive simply don't believe there is a good reason to hold to theism, most atheists don't claim to have a deductive disproof of god.

Quote:
 

However, I ask that you would come with only two rules: the rules of logic apply

Then how will the christians be able to speak?

Quote:
 

and that no one would make any profit out of it. The CDs or DVDs would be sold and the cost would be the making of the disc. You can bring who ever you would like: including Dawkins, Carrier, Harris, or Price. This is the chance that both sides have been waiting for.  

Really? I think there already have been a few debates between living christians and living atheists... 

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I thank you for reply. Will

I thank you for your reply. Will you come?

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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Respect_Truth wrote: I

Respect_Truth wrote:
I thank you for your reply. Will you come?

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

 

Only for a good amount of cash.

 

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Why? What do you have to

Why? What do you have to loose? Thank you for you reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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Respect_Truth wrote:Why?

Respect_Truth wrote:
Why? What do you have to loose? Thank you for you reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

First of all, the word is spelled "lose" not "loose"

Second of all, your inability to spell 'lose' correctly, points to what I have to 'lose'... my time.

If you can't even write a coherent post, what sort of debate should I expect?

What sort of college are you attending anyway? 

 

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todangst

todangst wrote:

Respect_Truth wrote:
Why? What do you have to loose? Thank you for you reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

First of all, the word is spelled "lose" not "loose"

Second of all, your inability to spell 'lose' correctly, points to what I have to 'lose'... my time.

If you can't even write a coherent post, what sort of debate should I expect?

What sort of college are you attending anyway?

 

Community college. Nothing wrong with that, though. :-p 


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Liberty University...

Liberty University... yeah... It's like... The Ministry of Peace.

 

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Respect_Truth wrote: I ask

Respect_Truth wrote:
I ask that you would come to Liberty University to debate some of the greatest thinkers in Christianity that are alive.

Whoa there. Either you like trash talking, or you've got the most inflated ego in all Christendom. I know Liberty University's debate team has won a lot of debate competitions, but that doesn't make you great thinkers.


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Hambydammit wrote: Liberty

Hambydammit wrote:

Liberty University... yeah... It's like... The Ministry of Peace.

 

Faith is Reason
Ignorance is Knowledge
Bigotry is Love


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Sorry for the misspelled

Sorry for the misspelled word. I have almost always been bad at spelling. However, I can assure you that you will not be talking to me during this debate so you will not have to worry about my misspelled words. I promise you this is not some sort of trick or trap. If you want all the answers call or email him. Remember you are talking to a messenger who cannot spell correctly. Thank you for your reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student who cannot spell correctly 100% of the time attending a Liberal Arts Christian University known as Liberty University asking you to "fight to free humanity from the mind disorder known as Theism" at Liberty University in a Rational Debate


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Respect_Truth wrote: I

Respect_Truth wrote:
I promise you this is not some sort of trick or trap.

It bothers me that you have to even say this.


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I did not mean for it to

I did not mean for it to sound that way. It would not be the Liberty Debate Team but Professors and Doctors from all over. I was not even including me in the greatest thinkers as you will be able to tell with my mistakes in spelling. Thank you for answering  me.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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I say that because I know

I say that because I know the sterotypical christians out there that would do that. Thank you for your reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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Respect_Truth wrote: I did

Respect_Truth wrote:
I did not mean for it to sound that way. It would not be the Liberty Debate Team but Professors and Doctors from all over. I was not even including me in the greatest thinkers as you will be able to tell with my mistakes in spelling. Thank you for answering me.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

OK. I see. That sounds a little more interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing maybe Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris have some sort of discussion with the faculty. But they don't hang out here, so you'd have to go ask them.

It would seem though that the proper place for a scholarly debate would be things like peer reviewed journals and such.


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todangst

todangst wrote:

Respect_Truth wrote:
Why? What do you have to loose? Thank you for you reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

First of all, the word is spelled "lose" not "loose"

Second of all, your inability to spell 'lose' correctly, points to what I have to 'lose'... my time.

If you can't even write a coherent post, what sort of debate should I expect?

What sort of college are you attending anyway?

 

todangst a spelling Nazi? Eye-wink


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It would seem like that

It would seem like that except that not everyone reads peer reviewed journals. This way everyone could see it if they wanted to. Thank you for your reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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I will be back later. I

I will be back later. I thank you for your replies and your open attitude.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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Does anyone know if any of

Does anyone know if any of the creators of this site ever look at these boards? I really want people to come to this debate. Can a mod tell me what I should do if I want them to get the RSS or their friends to come to a debate? Thank you.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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Respect_Truth

Respect_Truth wrote:

 Remember you are talking to a messenger who cannot spell correctly.  

That will prove easy to remember. Or should I say "proove"? 

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MrRage wrote: todangst a

MrRage wrote:
todangst a spelling Nazi? Eye-wink

  Only in the case of low grade, grammar school level errors like "loose" for "lose", and even then, only if such an error is commited in the  midst of offering up a challenge for rational discourse. 

In other words, I took it as a bad sign.  

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Respect_Truth wrote: Does

Respect_Truth wrote:

Does anyone know if any of the creators of this site ever look at these boards? I really want people to come to this debate. Can a mod tell me what I should do if I want them to get the RSS or their friends to come to a debate? Thank you.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

You could just ask them directly through email.


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todangst wrote: MrRage

todangst wrote:

MrRage wrote:
todangst a spelling Nazi? Eye-wink

Only in the case of low grade, grammar school level errors like "loose" for "lose", and even then, only if such an error is commited in the midst of offering up a challenge for rational discourse.

In other words, I took it as a bad sign.



I am not trying to start anything, but you misspelled "committed." You typed "commited". However, since I am not a great speller I will let it slide. Wink  I just thought if you are going to insult you should use correct grammar, but then again I do not think we should lower ourselves to name calling and nit picking. Some of the greatest thinkers failed in other subjects. (Not saying I am a great or greatest thinker.) Thank you for your reply and again I ask that the great/est thinkers to come to Liberty University and have a Rational Debate.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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I emailed them earlier, but

I emailed them earlier, but have not had a response. Thank you though.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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Respect_Truth

Respect_Truth wrote:
todangst wrote:

MrRage wrote:
todangst a spelling Nazi? Eye-wink

Only in the case of low grade, grammar school level errors like "loose" for "lose", and even then, only if such an error is committed in the midst of offering up a challenge for rational discourse.

In other words, I took it as a bad sign.



I am not trying to start anything, but you misspelled "committed." You typed "commited".

A typo ain't a misspelling partner. Anyway, my point wasn't to criticize you for any spelling mistake - we all make them, but for your particular misspelling of 'loose' - spelling 'lose" as "loose' is a pretty egregious spelling blunder.

 

Quote:
I just thought if you are going to insult you should use correct grammar,

You mean correct 'spelling', not correct 'grammar'.

It's war! 

Quote:

but then again I do not think we should lower ourselves to name calling and nit picking.

But you just did precisely that. And you were wrong anyway.

Nice try, however. I appreciate the effort.

 

 

 

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ehh! I hop todangst dosn't

ehh! I hop todangst dosn't start proofing my posts. Shit! Did I jus use "proofing" in the wrung contaxt?


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Edger wrote: ehh! I hop

Edger wrote:
ehh! I hop todangst dosn't start proofing my posts. Shit! Did I jus use "proofing" in the wrung contaxt?

 

I'm just picking on him a bit, I think don't think he takes it seriously either....

 

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I watched Caner's podcast.

I watched Caner's podcast. I am fairly unimpressed due to the fact that the 'debate' is so open-ended. Caner's two rules seem to be undue limitations on his part. In other words, he sounds like he wants one arm tied behind both sides backs rather than an all-out contest.

Sure. I'll come if you send me gas money and put me in a hotel. Oh I'll need to eat as well. Something like O'Charley's should do.

I'm not overly worried about 'traps' or whatever. If I live through an attack then I can sue. If I die then the kids go to college at a respectable university.(not in Virginia. no offense Larry or Tomcat)

 

Oh Goodness, in my supreme arrogance I ignored the idea that you don't want me; plain old Josh. I don't have a paparazzi. When I sneeze, there aren't forty reporters with kleenex tissues at the ready. Well, darn. No vacation in Appalachia for me.

Is this for a thesis? What are the motivations behind this request?

 

(todangst started the sarcasm) 

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Respect_Truth wrote: To

Respect_Truth wrote:

To whom it may concern:
The reason I am coming on this is not to debate online. I ask that you would come to Liberty University to debate some of the greatest thinkers in Christianity that are alive. I know that you feel that you have proven that there is no god and to believe in such is irrational. However, I ask that you would come with only two rules: the rules of logic apply and that no one would make any profit out of it. The CDs or DVDs would be sold and the cost would be the making of the disc. You can bring who ever you would like: including Dawkins, Carrier, Harris, or Price. This is the chance that both sides have been waiting for. This would not be a trap and there is no hidden agenda. Respect will be shown to both sides (no booing or clapping). The only clapping should be when people are introduced and after the debate. For more information go to http://www.liberty.edu/academics/religion/seminary/index.cfm?PID=6969 or call 434.592.3338 or email ecaner@liberty.edu.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

I am not speaking for this website, merely as a poster here. But having lived in Lynchburg and knowing all the money machines that that school has, I dont think it is reasonable to aks that this site not sell copies of it. 

Why not just have the debate and let each side do what they want with it?

That issue aside. I bet this invitation has alot to do with the fact that atheists are starting to compete with your ideas and whereas before for a long time you could marginalize us and shove us under the rug.

If this is lagit as you say then in return you should be willing to recipocate and be a guest on Brian's show. 

 

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Hambydammit wrote: Liberty

Hambydammit wrote:

Liberty University... yeah... It's like... The Ministry of Peace.

 

Back when I was a student at a reall college in that town one of my dorm mates called up the admissions office and deepend his voice and acted like a parent aksing the lady on the phone questions about what was not allowed at the school. He went through a litney of maybe 20 questions.

"Is it true yoiu cant hold hands in public? Is it true you cant wear skirts above the knee? Is it true.......yadda yadda yadda....

Then ended the call with, "If it is true you cant do all those things on campus, then why the hell do you call it Liberty?" CLICK

BTW to any parents of Liberty Students, if you think all the 10s of thousands of students behaive on and off campus the way the college sells it, ...........tisk tisk tisk.

I knew pleanty of students who broke so many of their rules ALL THE TIME. Some of them were really good friends of mine too.

I bet it steams Falwell that an atheist can be friends with his students. POOR POOR THEOCRAT. 

 

 

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Respect_Truth wrote: To

Respect_Truth wrote:

To whom it may concern:
            The reason I am coming on this is not to debate online. I ask that you would come to Liberty University to debate some of the greatest thinkers in Christianity that are alive. I know that you feel that you have proven that there is no god and to believe in such is irrational. However, I ask that you would come with only two rules: the rules of logic apply and that no one would make any profit out of it. The CDs or DVDs would be sold and the cost would be the making of the disc. You can bring who ever you would like: including Dawkins, Carrier, Harris, or Price. This is the chance that both sides have been waiting for. This would not be a trap and there is no hidden agenda. Respect will be shown to both sides (no booing or clapping). The only clapping should be when people are introduced and after the debate. For more information go to http://www.liberty.edu/academics/religion/seminary/index.cfm?PID=6969 or call 434.592.3338 or email ecaner@liberty.edu.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

Well, I sort of like the idea of a live debate, which will actually generate something. If every side will be respected (though I'm sure it won't happen, and I'm not referring to moderators), thenI'll say this is something I haven't seen in a while.

Count me out, though... I'm not US and there's no physical way that I'm going to be able to get there by.

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Respect_Truth wrote: To

Respect_Truth wrote:

To whom it may concern:
The reason I am coming on this is not to debate online. I ask that you would come to Liberty University to debate some of the greatest thinkers in Christianity that are alive. I know that you feel that you have proven that there is no god and to believe in such is irrational. However, I ask that you would come with only two rules: the rules of logic apply and that no one would make any profit out of it. The CDs or DVDs would be sold and the cost would be the making of the disc. You can bring who ever you would like: including Dawkins, Carrier, Harris, or Price. This is the chance that both sides have been waiting for. This would not be a trap and there is no hidden agenda. Respect will be shown to both sides (no booing or clapping). The only clapping should be when people are introduced and after the debate. For more information go to http://www.liberty.edu/academics/religion/seminary/index.cfm?PID=6969 or call 434.592.3338 or email ecaner@liberty.edu.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

 

I'd be more interested in watching a discussion on liberty's 3,000 year old dinosaur bones.


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ERGUN CANER ANSWERS THE

ERGUN CANER ANSWERS THE “BLASPHEMY CHALLENGE.”

On February 7th in Liberty University’s Campus Church, in front of more than 4000 college students, Liberty Theological Seminary president, Dr. Ergun Caner, decried the irrationality of the so-called “Rational Response Squad.” 

Caner cited their media frenzied “Blasphemy Challenge” as a perfect opportunity to answer the legitimate questions of skeptics while exalting the oft neglected intellectual defenses of Christian theology.

The “Blasphemy Challenge” has received prolific media attention from the national networks and magazines like Newsweek.

Their website states that “this campaign encourages participants to commit what Christian doctrine calls the only unforgivable sin -- blasphemy against the Holy Spirit…“ 

The website defines the parameters of the challenge, “You may damn yourself to Hell however you would like, but somewhere in your video you must say this phrase: ‘I deny the Holy Spirit.’” 

Those “blasphemers” are then encouraged to place their video recorded renouncement onto the wildly popular youtube.com website in exchange for a free DVD. 

Dr. Caner is an apologist, engaging speaker and a converted Muslim with angst against those who think Christianity is built blandly upon blind faith.

Caner said, "our faith is hooked to the God who created all logic and all knowledge… I’m telling you lazy Christianity will not change one person.  It takes a heart committed to the cross, a mind committed to learn, a mouth committed to stand and speak, and a person committed to the simple act of courtesy in answering honest questions…they’re asking their questions because they see a gap between faith and reason.”

Caner mentioned by name Richard Dawkins, Producer Brian Flemming, and the American Atheist Forum stating, “to any one of you, I say, ‘bring it,’ because I believe that by using rational, coherent rules of logic and law that the God who created those rules of law will manifest himself.” 

Caner, promising to play nice, offered an open invitation to interested atheist leaders to travel to Liberty University to engage in an intellectual dialogue concerning the probability of the existence of God. 

Addressing the Rational Response Squad and their compatriots, Caner concluded to a thunderous rally of applause:

“You asked for Christians to prove what we believe. So we accept this challenge. If you want answers, we’ll give them to you. Invite your most brilliant colleagues and we’ll bring ours. We only ask three things: 1) that we all follow the rules of logic 2) that we agree that the Bible is an old book and 3) that we treat each other respectfully.”

Caner will continue his provocative sermon series, coined “Skeptics Welcome” on Wednesday, February 14th with the message “Blasphemy Challenge: God’s Criminal Negligence?” 

The Rational Response Squad has yet to comment on Caner’s challenge.


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darth_josh wrote: I

darth_josh wrote:

I watched Caner's podcast. I am fairly unimpressed due to the fact that the 'debate' is so open-ended. Caner's two rules seem to be undue limitations on his part. In other words, he sounds like he wants one arm tied behind both sides backs rather than an all-out contest.

Sure. I'll come if you send me gas money and put me in a hotel. Oh I'll need to eat as well. Something like O'Charley's should do.

I'm not overly worried about 'traps' or whatever. If I live through an attack then I can sue. If I die then the kids go to college at a respectable university.(not in Virginia. no offense Larry or Tomcat)

 

Oh Goodness, in my supreme arrogance I ignored the idea that you don't want me; plain old Josh. I don't have a paparazzi. When I sneeze, there aren't forty reporters with kleenex tissues at the ready. Well, darn. No vacation in Appalachia for me.

Is this for a thesis? What are the motivations behind this request?

 

(todangst started the sarcasm)



I cannot seem to get his podcast to show up. The only ones I get are from last year. The motivation for me behind this is to answer the questions that atheists (agnostics) have. I want to see this because both sides have good questions that never seemed to get answered by either side and disrespect is shown to both parties. Thank you for your reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student


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darth_josh wrote: I

darth_josh wrote:

I watched Caner's podcast. I am fairly unimpressed due to the fact that the 'debate' is so open-ended.

That's a typical theist ploy: leave it open ended, so the theist can assert and assert and never be forced to deal with one issue for any lengthy of time.

It's highly unprofessional.

There should be one specific topic, and the debate should focus on that alone. 

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Respect_Truth wrote: I

Respect_Truth wrote:

I cannot seem to get his podcast to show up. The only ones I get are from last year. The motivation for me behind this is to answer the questions that atheists (agnostics) have.

Most of the atheists on this board are agnostic atheists, but  you will find a few strong atheists. Both groups lack theism - a-theism, but the latter claims to have deductive proofs that refute monotheism. 

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Dr. Caner wrote: they’re

Dr. Caner wrote:
they’re asking their questions because they see a gap between faith and reason.

No. There is a gap between faith and reason.

Dr. Caner wrote:
You asked for Christians to prove what we believe. So we accept this challenge. If you want answers, we’ll give them to you. Invite your most brilliant colleagues and we’ll bring ours. We only ask three things: 1) that we all follow the rules of logic 2) that we agree that the Bible is an old book and 3) that we treat each other respectfully.

So why don't they just prove it then? I'm all for debates, but I doubt it would really settle anything. We'd probably just be hearing, from both sides, the same arguments we here on these forums.

Who said that the Bible is not an old book. What's that about?


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Dr. Caner wrote: We only

Dr. Caner wrote:
We only ask three things: 1) that we all follow the rules of logic 2) that we agree that the Bible is an old book and 3) that we treat each other respectfully.
 

 

Again, point 1 would preclude the theist from the debate altogether, point 2 is vague and rather silly - the bible is a collection of anonymous old books, plural, with no legitmate grounds for their exstence as this collection. 

 

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

Books on atheism.


Respect_Truth
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If you are worried about the

If you are worried about the vagueness or silliness talk to Dr. Ergun Caner. Thank you for your reply.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/liberty/cpo/campuschurch/20070207_cc_ec.wvx


Respect_Truth
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Rigor_OMortis

Rigor_OMortis wrote:
Respect_Truth wrote:

To whom it may concern:
The reason I am coming on this is not to debate online. I ask that you would come to Liberty University to debate some of the greatest thinkers in Christianity that are alive. I know that you feel that you have proven that there is no god and to believe in such is irrational. However, I ask that you would come with only two rules: the rules of logic apply and that no one would make any profit out of it. The CDs or DVDs would be sold and the cost would be the making of the disc. You can bring who ever you would like: including Dawkins, Carrier, Harris, or Price. This is the chance that both sides have been waiting for. This would not be a trap and there is no hidden agenda. Respect will be shown to both sides (no booing or clapping). The only clapping should be when people are introduced and after the debate. For more information go to http://www.liberty.edu/academics/religion/seminary/index.cfm?PID=6969 or call 434.592.3338 or email ecaner@liberty.edu.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

Well, I sort of like the idea of a live debate, which will actually generate something. If every side will be respected (though I'm sure it won't happen, and I'm not referring to moderators), thenI'll say this is something I haven't seen in a while.

Count me out, though... I'm not US and there's no physical way that I'm going to be able to get there by.



Thank you for your reply. I agree that showing respect would be hard for both sides.

Sincerely,
A Liberty University Student

http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/liberty/cpo/campuschurch/20070207_cc_ec.wvx


Captain_Entropy
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There is good reason not to

There is good reason not to participate in a formal oral debate at Liberty University. First, the odds would be stacked against the visiting team heavily. A room packed full of devoted christians is not the place to debate the beliefs these christians hold so dear. They will walk into the arena on the defensive and not really hear the points made against their beliefs.

Second, formal debates against christian apologists are only favorable to the christians. These debates give people an idea that their position has a leg to stand on. Also, the apologists tend to rattle off a hundred claims per minute while the non-believer side will take several minutes to refute each claim. Then when not all the claims are answered, the apologists will claim that since everything wasn't refuted, they came out victorious.

The proper place for a formal debate would be as a written debate so that each side was able to have time to present clear arguments and have time to catch every claim made by the other side of the debate.

So, if the leaders of Liberty University want to meet the challenge, then it makes the most sense to have a discussion (not debate) on the radio with the rational response squad. This would allow people to keep each other on topic as well as cut down on the annoying traveling and the costs associated with such.


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A response is being sent to

A response is being sent to Dr. Caner.

You can see it here.