Mohammed was a child molestor

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Mohammed was a child molestor

Naomi is a listener and she just sent this my way:

Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arX8QqgMxw0

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While I was discussing this

While I was discussing this with my muslim friend, he said that at that time it was a custom or was prevalent in society to marry young girls.

 

Also Prophet Muhammad married his adopted sons wife zaynab. One day he went to his sons house and saw his wife and was impressed by her beauty, so his son divorced zaynab and prophet married her.


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The Qur'an clearly states

It's quite amazing that Christians worship a god that clearly is a pedophile. He must have raped Mary when she was around 13 years old and today he would have been convicted of statutory rape and sentenced to many years as Bubba's bitch.

Do you support grown men having sex with 13 year old girls today? If not, why support a pedophile god?

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When he got caught messing around

When Muhammad got caught cheating on his wives with Mary the Copt he wrote a new addition to the Qu'ran to justify it.  Sura 66:1.

And I understand he bounced checks and shaved a yak, too, although those aren't strictly speaking mentioned int he Qu'ran.

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Listen to the nonsense you

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,

 

Example is Edgar Allan Poe, he married his 13 year old cousin... does that make him a child molester by your standards, yes? Then why is he regarded with high praise for introducing the detective and American gothic genres? Why do literature experts regard his poems with high literary praise?


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doc101 wrote: Listen to

doc101 wrote:

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,

 

Example is Edgar Allan Poe, he married his 13 year old cousin... does that make him a child molester by your standards, yes? Then why is he regarded with high praise for introducing the detective and American gothic genres? Why do literature experts regard his poems with high literary praise?

I have read studies which suggest that women entered puberty much later in ancient times. A 13 year old 2,000 years ago would very likely have been prepubescent.

God had no time to create time.


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I have recently immigrated

I have recently immigrated to Canada, but I am surprised about the wrong notions about Gandhi(Mohan Das Karamchand Gandhi), in west

 He has himself written in his autobiography that he used to sleep naked with 2 young girls sleeping naked on his both sides, to test his control over lust.

 Mayawati a woman CM(Governor in USA), 2 years back openly said that did Gandhi realised what mental/physical torture was he doing to those young girls.


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Pikachu wrote:

Pikachu wrote:
doc101 wrote:

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,

 

Example is Edgar Allan Poe, he married his 13 year old cousin... does that make him a child molester by your standards, yes? Then why is he regarded with high praise for introducing the detective and American gothic genres? Why do literature experts regard his poems with high literary praise?

I have read studies which suggest that women entered puberty much later in ancient times. A 13 year old 2,000 years ago would very likely have been prepubescent.

 

And i'm going to believe this how? Sources please

also another thing, your source "suggests" which means its uncertain whether those girl were prepubescent or not, deeming it uncredible

 

Definition of Suggest: imply as a possibility (2)

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=suggest 


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doc101 wrote: Pikachu

doc101 wrote:
Pikachu wrote:
doc101 wrote:

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,

 

Example is Edgar Allan Poe, he married his 13 year old cousin... does that make him a child molester by your standards, yes? Then why is he regarded with high praise for introducing the detective and American gothic genres? Why do literature experts regard his poems with high literary praise?

I have read studies which suggest that women entered puberty much later in ancient times. A 13 year old 2,000 years ago would very likely have been prepubescent.

 

And i'm going to believe this how? Sources please

also another thing, your source "suggests" which means its uncertain whether those girl were prepubescent or not, deeming it uncredible

 

Definition of Suggest: imply as a possibility (2)

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=suggest

It has a lot to do with improved nutrition in modern times allowing for sexual maturity to occur sooner.

God had no time to create time.


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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Age_at_marriage

 

According to wiki, Aisha was 9yo when her marriage to Mohammad was consummated.

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He'd be getting his ass

He'd be getting his ass seriously kicked in prison, too. They fucking hate child molesters.


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doc101 wrote:

doc101 wrote:

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,

 

Example is Edgar Allan Poe, he married his 13 year old cousin... does that make him a child molester by your standards, yes? Then why is he regarded with high praise for introducing the detective and American gothic genres? Why do literature experts regard his poems with high literary praise?

Because being a bastard in one area of your life doesn't necessarily affect the quality of work you produce in other areas.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Nutrition is very closely

doc101 wrote:
Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,
Nonsense ???

Nutrition is very closely coupled with fertility. Undernourished women (anorexic, adherents to extreme dieting fads) stop having their periods. I think that proper nuttrition is probably the underlying cause, more than hormones & other food addictives, but it may be a little hard to separate the two, because improved access to food is closely linked with industrialized, cheaper and widely available food products, which tend to be the ones that are treated. It would be very easy to test wheter population that maintain a traditional pastoral or hunther-gather lifestyle, girls enter puberty later - but then to attribute this to their nutritional status or lack of food addictives would be more tricky. From an evolutionary/physiological perspective, the link between fertility and nutritional status makes perfect sense, and is seen among animals too. Have plenty of young while environmental conditions are favorable, and keep scarce resources to yourself if you have trouble getting enough calories in your diet.

All this as nothing to do with hollywood.

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This whole child sex thing

This whole child sex thing is very very new. 20 years ago this conversation wouldn't even be possible. Superman the movie, and all it's sequels no less, all displayed a young boy with full frontal nudity in the opening credits, and there was no condemnation. I don't recall any discussion about it whatsoever. It certainly couldn't have caused an uproar when all the sequels also featured the same kid in the same state of undress and the same camera angle in the opening credits. And I don't recall thinking anything about it one way or the other at the time. Though I'm sure if it happened today it would be a huge issue.

While the protection of children from any predator should indeed be a major concern, it's become an irrational situation. The simple fact of the matter is that the further back in history you go, the less likely age is to matter to the civilization. Without actually looking at the matter, I feel confident in stating that even today some cultures encourage a woman to start having kids when she first menstruates, and a boy when he first is capable of the deed.

So comparing a historical figure with todays moral concepts doesn't work in my view. Especially when those moral concepts are not global. It's easy enough to argue against religion on it's own merits without resorting to taking a person apart simply because he lived the way everyone of the time did.

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doc101 wrote: Listen to

doc101 wrote:

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls

 This is amusing.  You call something else nonsense, while saying something that is nonsense. 

 The MAJORITY of famous authors married prepubescent girls?  Please oh please show me the list.  I'll grant you a short list... but a MAJORITY??!  NONSENSE!

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MattShizzle wrote: He'd be

MattShizzle wrote:
He'd be getting his ass seriously kicked in prison, too. They fucking hate child molesters.
 

Tis true. (One of my step-father's confirmed this when I was @ 9.  He was in for holding up a holy-roller church. hehe).  That's why they seperate them now from the rest of the prisoners. 


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Does anyone find it

Does anyone find it disturbing that a 30-40yo man can have sex with a 9yo girl, and his followers dont think twice about it??????

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
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I find it disturbing too,

I find it disturbing too, Angelic.

Back then, it was common for these guys to marry young girls. In fact, this is Aristotle's thoughts on marriage.

""The appropriate age for marriage is around eighteen for girls and thirty-seven for men."
- Aristotle

He's saying that men have to be 37 to have sex with an 18 year old girl. Sad

I know that 18 is the legal age, but damn.


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jcgadfly wrote:

doc101 wrote:

[ quote=jcgadfly ]

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,

Example is Edgar Allan Poe, he married his 13 year old cousin... does that make him a child molester by your standards, yes? Then why is he regarded with high praise for introducing the detective and American gothic genres? Why do literature experts regard his poems with high literary praise?

If I remember correctly, Jerry Lee Lewis got nailed by the press and public when he married his third wife who was his 13 year old cousin. (By the way, Jerry Lee Lewis is the cousin of Jimmy Swaggart!)

jcgadfly wrote:

[ quote=doc101 ]

Because being a bastard in one area of your life doesn't necessarily affect the quality of work you produce in other areas.

Although it may not affect the quality of the work you produce, let's ask Bill Clinton if it affects how others view the quality of the work you produce. I think it was reprehensible that he had an affair (affairs?). However I fail to see how it affected how he did his job (other than having to deal with public opinion and impeachment procedings.)

If every person in a high-powered job who ever had an affair lost their job..... well, you get my drift.

[MOD EDIT to correct persons quoted]

 

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American Atheist

American Atheist wrote:

""The appropriate age for marriage is around eighteen for girls and thirty-seven for men."
- Aristotle

This sounds more like mental, and financial readiness, and well... attraction.

A 9yo girl, menstration or not, is not physically or mentally ready to be an adult.

Its not about the age difference, not even about the age of the man. In this case it's about the age of the girl.

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
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Angelic_Atheist

Angelic_Atheist wrote:
American Atheist wrote:

""The appropriate age for marriage is around eighteen for girls and thirty-seven for men."
- Aristotle

This sounds more like mental, and financial readiness, and well... attraction.

A 9yo girl, menstration or not, is not physically or mentally ready to be an adult.

Its not about the age difference, not even about the age of the man. In this case it's about the age of the girl.

 

Hey, I know what you mean, but it was ok for men to marry girls back then. But you would have a problem with a boy and a grown woman being together? I wouldn't have a problem with a boy and a woman getting married, especially if I was that boy.

But I heard that Aristotle was gay, which would explain a lot of things, like why he thinks men are too immature to get married at 18 and his inexperience with dating women. (according his quote.)


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sumra wrote: While I was

sumra wrote:

While I was discussing this with my muslim friend, he said that at that time it was a custom or was prevalent in society to marry young girls.

 

Interesting.  That's the defense the guy who molested me when I was 8 used in court.  He was from Nigeria.  Of course, his need to keep the whole thing secret showed he knew it was wrong.

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Susan wrote:

Susan wrote:
doc101 wrote:

[ quote=jcgadfly ]

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,

Example is Edgar Allan Poe, he married his 13 year old cousin... does that make him a child molester by your standards, yes? Then why is he regarded with high praise for introducing the detective and American gothic genres? Why do literature experts regard his poems with high literary praise?

If I remember correctly, Jerry Lee Lewis got nailed by the press and public when he married his third wife who was his 13 year old cousin. (By the way, Jerry Lee Lewis is the cousin of Jimmy Swaggart!)

jcgadfly wrote:

[ quote=doc101 ]

Because being a bastard in one area of your life doesn't necessarily affect the quality of work you produce in other areas.

Although it may not affect the quality of the work you produce, let's ask Bill Clinton if it affects how others view the quality of the work you produce. I think it was reprehensible that he had an affair (affairs?). However I fail to see how it affected how he did his job (other than having to deal with public opinion and impeachment procedings.)

If every person in a high-powered job who ever had an affair lost their job..... well, you get my drift.

You attributed what I said to doc an vice versa. Are you just trying to mess with my mind or what? I have a hard enough time dealing with things I actually say. Please don't stick someone else's words in my mouth. As Willy Wonka would say in regards to these attributions "Strike that, reverse it."

[MOD EDIT - my sincere apologies! I have corrected both posts and lined out the incorrect quotes.]

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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American Atheist

American Atheist wrote:
Angelic_Atheist wrote:
American Atheist wrote:

""The appropriate age for marriage is around eighteen for girls and thirty-seven for men."
- Aristotle

This sounds more like mental, and financial readiness, and well... attraction.

A 9yo girl, menstration or not, is not physically or mentally ready to be an adult.

Its not about the age difference, not even about the age of the man. In this case it's about the age of the girl.

 Hey, I know what you mean, but it was ok for men to marry girls back then. But you would have a problem with a boy and a grown woman being together? I wouldn't have a problem with a boy and a woman getting married, especially if I was that boy.

 

This is about Muhammad marrying a 6 or 7 yo girl and having sex with her when she was 9. If Mohammad had been a woman and married a 7yo boy, Im sure we would have the same issue with it.

 

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins


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Someone already brought

Someone already brought this tidbit up and kudos to you.

I hate it when Christians and atheists point at Muhammid as being a pediophile. NO SHIT SHERLOCK!

I dont hate pointing out the obvious.But what people seem to forget is that the mortality rate amoungs all cultures 1700 to 2000 years ago was much higher amoungs babies and mothers during child birth. So back then ALL CULTURES were expected to marry off their daughters at a young age so that they could pop out a kid upon their first period or shortly after.

So when Christians and atheist righty point this out, what they are doing in reality is getting angry at the current state of Islam in the east. 

Westerners who do this also say that Islam is a violent religion. YES IT CAN BE, just like Christianity was before the age of inlightenment and the advent of secular, pluralistic goverments.

Christianity in the west, so far, is non-violent(still has a global worldview like islam) but has put a cap on local religious violence because of the ideas of "Free speech" doesnt have to lead to violence.

If western goverments suddenly gave up pluralism or checks and balances or multy party goverments. If they strictly cheerlead for Jesus, they would quickly and most definatly backslide into the same barbaric behaivor they accuse the Muslims of the Middle East today.

It is in spite of Christianity, not because of Christianity that western goverments have evolved to be civil. But it wont stay that way if the citizens of these countries put Jesus first insted of the free market of ideas.

Pluralism and multiculturalism combined with a free market of ideas is how all of us get allong. The key to good goverment is not by not having goverment fuck with people's thoughts. But to promote the idea of personal responsibility when one hears something they dont like.

 

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jcgadfly wrote: Susan

jcgadfly wrote:

Susan wrote:
doc101 wrote:

[ quote=jcgadfly ]

Listen to the nonsense you are saying, by that definition majority of famous authors are pedophiles because they married young girls,

Example is Edgar Allan Poe, he married his 13 year old cousin... does that make him a child molester by your standards, yes? Then why is he regarded with high praise for introducing the detective and American gothic genres? Why do literature experts regard his poems with high literary praise?

If I remember correctly, Jerry Lee Lewis got nailed by the press and public when he married his third wife who was his 13 year old cousin. (By the way, Jerry Lee Lewis is the cousin of Jimmy Swaggart!)

jcgadfly wrote:

[ quote=doc101 ]

Because being a bastard in one area of your life doesn't necessarily affect the quality of work you produce in other areas.

Although it may not affect the quality of the work you produce, let's ask Bill Clinton if it affects how others view the quality of the work you produce. I think it was reprehensible that he had an affair (affairs?). However I fail to see how it affected how he did his job (other than having to deal with public opinion and impeachment procedings.)

If every person in a high-powered job who ever had an affair lost their job..... well, you get my drift.

You attributed what I said to doc an vice versa. Are you just trying to mess with my mind or what? I have a hard enough time dealing with things I actually say. Please don't stick someone else's words in my mouth. As Willy Wonka would say in regards to these attributions "Strike that, reverse it."

[MOD EDIT - my sincere apologies! I have corrected both posts and lined out the incorrect quotes.]

Many thanks - I thought I was getting so old I had no clue what I was posting. I agree completely with your words to both sets of comments.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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Brian37 wrote: Someone

Brian37 wrote:

Someone already brought this tidbit up and kudos to you.

I hate it when Christians and atheists point at Muhammid as being a pediophile. NO SHIT SHERLOCK!

I dont hate pointing out the obvious.But what people seem to forget is that the mortality rate amoungs all cultures 1700 to 2000 years ago was much higher amoungs babies and mothers during child birth. So back then ALL CULTURES were expected to marry off their daughters at a young age so that they could pop out a kid upon their first period or shortly after.

So when Christians and atheist righty point this out, what they are doing in reality is getting angry at the current state of Islam in the east.

Thank you.

We must favor verifiable evidence over private feeling. Otherwise we leave ourselves vulnerable to those who would obscure the truth.
~ Richard Dawkins


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jcgadfly wrote:   Because

jcgadfly wrote:
 

Because being a bastard in one area of your life doesn't necessarily affect the quality of work you produce in other areas.

Generally, yes. But when your "job" is to be a moral example for others...

 

-Triften 


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triften wrote: jcgadfly

triften wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

Because being a bastard in one area of your life doesn't necessarily affect the quality of work you produce in other areas.

Generally, yes. But when your "job" is to be a moral example for others...

 

-Triften

 Point taken. Then again, if someone claims it is their job to be a moral example I automatically dismiss them as full of offal.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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I think I might be missing

I think I might be missing something here.

So Mohammad married a 6 year old girl and then had sex with her at 9. The defense to this is it was culturally acceptable at the time.

Now from my understanding Muhammad was considered a righteous man close to god.

Does God know how having sex with a child who is not emotionally mature enough to handle penetration effects them ? I am not talking about what is culturally acceptable. I mean God was smart enough to know that eating bad food would kill you or if you didnt wash you would get diseases.

 

So either god did not know how it effects a child to be penetrated (if this is in dispute I have several scientific studies in paper form only that I can scan and email to you - photocopied out of medical journals and scientific journals, also Judith Herman’s work surrounding this as well as http://www.childtrauma.org offers substantial information ) OR He did know and he decided it was an ok thing to abuse a child and Mohammad was still a righteous man.

So either god is all knowing and agrees child abuse is OK
Or God is not all knowing
Mmmmmmm

The only defense to this would be that back then a 9 year old child WAS emotionally able to deal with penetration and well sex acts of any kind. I tried to find proof of this but was only able to find information on social customs. I don’t take them as proof because it was once socially acceptable to hit your wife - and I can’t see women being able to emotionally handle it any better now or then. It was also once socially acceptable to have slaves - again the mental trauma of that I don’t believe is in dispute either.

Can some one please explain to me what I am missing here.

One side note : I think I might be beating a dead horse here but Attacking the morality of great literay artist, politicians or hell even great scientist is pointless as NONE of these people are being accepted as a moral role model.  A moral role model should be able to with stand the utmost moral scrutiny if we are to look up to them. A poet can be the biggest asshole alive and still write good poetry – a politician can be an adulteress and still write good policy.