It's generally agreed that one cannot prove or disprove the existence of god; however, is it possible, with what we know now,

Iruka Naminori
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It's generally agreed that one cannot prove or disprove the existence of god; however, is it possible, with what we know now,

to disprove the Christian religion?

It seems to me that the entire religion is on shaky ground considering the fact it's just a flavor of paganism that was adopted by the Roman Empire and that a bazillion other pagan religions had stunningly similar characteristics.

Is it time to say, in no uncertain terms, that Christianity has been completely discredited? It's not politically correct, but is it true? Is there enough evidence to make such a claim and stand by it? Forgive me if this site has already taken a stance on such a claim. I'm just wondering if we could come up with a good meme, like "evolution is a fact." How about, "It's a proven fact that the Christian religion has been discredited"?

If you don't think we have enough evidence to claim Christianity has been discredited, why not?

(By the way, even though it's generally agreed that one cannot prove or disprove the existence of a god, existence and non-existence are NOT on equal footing. Outrageous claims require outrageous proof...celestial teapot and all that... Smiling )

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Nice post. There's no

Nice post. There's no refuting a 'subtle god', but yahweh was never such a 'being'. If a claim contradicts itself, it is false, and christianity contradicts itself over and over.

 

And, just to follow along with your last comment, I agree with you, there is no such thing as a burden of disproof, only a burden of proof

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

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22jesus22
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I have been wondering this

I have been wondering this personally as well.  I think you can.  People have learned a lot about Christianity and its roots, and I think you can easily disprove the Christian Religion.  One only needs to read the bible, to find so many flaws and contradictions.


lawrence
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That is the tragedy, and i

That is the tragedy, and i did not even bring it up because it is almost pointless, but since YOU already brought up the question i will chime in. And i will probably be mocked or disputed by this...but perhaps there is a physicist or chemist on board who can back me up, coz i seriously doubt that anyone is going to educate themselves and rather stick to ones familiar worldview. People are not motivated enough to educate themselves to the point that would be required - especially so in the US and it anti-scientific climate. But i digress...

In a way now, for decades science has given us a coherent framework that spans from a symetric state of the universe to black hole formation - both of which are currently hot research topics. Molecular biology is almost a hundred years old, and molecular genetics recently celebrated its 50ths anniversary. So much for the introductionary part...
God can naturally never be disproven but IT is an untebale factor within our (visible) universe. It is tragic since it pains me to see all those people, and their intrinsically evolved - and for this species: vital! - curiosity and potential going to waste, especially so when people are scammed by cult leaders and thus basic neurological programs WHICH WE ALL SHARE are exploited. It is the one of the worst crimes (from my point of view) commitable. But that may be seen as fanatic, and again i disgress...
All around the world in every university modern science is being taught whilst the populace still lives in the 19th or 18th century as far as their worldviews - and thus directly their education is concerned. The only reason they do not see all the technology around them as magic is because they were brought up in a modern environment. They have no foundation or heard of maxwell, heisenberg, schroedinger, even relativity (whilst at least einstein is due to historical reasons not made into a farce, as he is considered a national hero), let alone quantum mechanics, yet our entire modern world is based upon certain key stages in the history of science that fundamentally changed the world we see.

Here is a short rant:
----
It is shameful and hurting society that the cornerstones of our
technological society - relativity and quantum physics are
either not at all or insufficiently taught in schools around the world,
whilst relying upon them every second of your lives: Be it the understanding of the molecular structure and hardness of concrete and therefore its behavior under stress, its material fatigue giving rise to a macroscopic deterioration, the microwave oven, traffic control, your mobile phone, the quality control and purity of the air we breath, the water we drink, mobile phones, personal computers, radios, television, the internet, satellites, GPS, cars, airplanes, the molecular interaction of potent toxins or drugs with the molecular machinery within ones organism to the very process of seeing the world around us. In fact 99% of the modern world is based upon it one way or another.

It is beyond shameful and in fact an atrocity to subject young minds to a modern world, whilst denying them the insight that modern human psychology and neurobiology gave us as early on as possible, when they would need it the most to counteract the bombardment of the medial world trying to make them lifelong consumers for a certain product or service (religion being one of them).

----

The question of the formation of life is long solved and understood (of course one can never gather enough data or pass on the opportunity to make protocells), what is not and is an incredible hard task and yet also an exciting moment is the origin of life itself is: The origin of life. It is not about the formation of life, the coming about of life. Novel life could still format or evolve constantly on our planet or from out space without us ever noticing since it would not stand a chance against the diversity of the sophisticated microorganisms on our planet.
Moreover we have exobiology / astrobiology to give us deeper insight into the very core of life in envrionments we have never seen before.

We know in deed for a fact that there are all sorts of aliens out there, and understand much of the parameters and circumstances that lead to multicellularity etc.. We know this because the spectra of the molecules and photons emitted by atoms from billions of lightyears away show exactly the same discreteness and distribution as quantum physics dictate it to be. There are other rock solid factors as well, wikipedia for it if you feel inclined to.
Ultimo ratio, the same physical principles govern the stars, galaxies and planets billions of light years away give rise to the same quantum mechanics dictating the chemical and physical processes. And all of it in the macroscopic framework of thermodynamics. For the sake of time and lack of linguistic skills, i cannot go into the details as to why there will not be any multicellular aliens visiting us, etc...but here a few factors:
*distances, time factor concerning the evolution of our galaxy, circumstances.
It is kinda ironic because nowadays anyone who says aliens do not exist is actual a nut who does not understand much at all, a few decades back it was the other way around. But then again we also understand that the core of life is the cell itself, and multicellularity - the next evoltuionary step in cell colonies if you so will, require confining factors acting upon evolution that creates an environment so competetiv that ever more complex multicellular lifeform start to compete and conquer ever new niches of he ecosystem. Above a common thread spans through all of life on this planet, the same molecular machinery (and please do not think of machinery as you know it but in chemical, QM terms) and if that were not enough we actually have the tree of life petty well preserved and life to indeed see the entire history of how something like us human could evolve. But even more so we have our genome stock full with our evolutionary history, stories about former diseases, illnesses, new ones and paleontology which has as well moved in the 21st century from NMR, synchrotron microscopy, AFM, electron holography to molecular clocks and simple C14 dating. I mean an outsider seriously cannot imagine the knowledge we have nowadays or even how to make sense of it. Behind every term mentioned anywhere there are scientific textbooks with thousands of pages. And be it political sciences and tracing the roots of certain behaviours back to other animals, back to psychology, further to neurology, further to similar species extracting their neurons looking at the gene expression ("the program their neurons are executing&quotEye-wink, further down the line to molecular genetics, and further down to biochemistry etc.. But back to the origin of life.

We do not have any data so far on how frequent the parameters are that give rise to earth like planets. We know by now that there are other planets within our solar system alone who can sustain life, but we lack the funding for better telescopes like the OWL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overwhelmingly_Large_Telescope) so we can actually get some spectra off of them. Which again gives us way more information than just the underlying chemistry. It is way more complex than that e.g. Zeeman splitting. - but all is dictated by quantum physics. So far all planet hunting is done and can only be done via indirective methods. (wikip.) Recently a new satellite was launched to help us, still operating indirectivly, but to a greater sensitivity to help us track down planets nonstop. This prolly was not even mentioned by the media - yet it is like everything else a costly project.

I wont even go into the commonalities all evolutionary processes share: Matter, since prolly most even do not know what time itself is. They have heard of a fleeting moment of Einstein, and learned to respect him as a natural hero, but there are not even religious people who attack him, because the majority of people is unaware of the physical picture and insight we derived from Relativity. On of this implications was the understanding of time as a fundamental property of matter, and space as space-time. Modern qunatum field theories go even further in the attempt to converge relativity and quantum physics. Either way these are invaliating older models, but updating them.  At least i heard someone talk about cosmology and planck time on this person so this person should at least be familiar with general relativity and find this post interesting.
Anyways, wikipedia, wikipedia and wikipedia if you wana know more. I do not wanna come off as arrogant, but english ain`t my native language and everything i could possibly attempt to explain will just result in inferior and confusing explanations and possible misuse of words, for which i apologize in advance as far as this text goes - or any other of mine for that matter. (But that is not an excuse for my fanatic views about a scientific society which are not rooted in bad language skills and errant interpretations but indeed are me. Then again society is all about diversity right... Anyways lets move on.)

What i still do not understand is why the hell does the american television hold out on allmost all of science programs? Or am i mislead... I mean this is a serious question i would like to ask you. How can that be, since the driving force of the economy of any modern country is ultimately the academic and research sectors that drive the emergence of new technologies to be economically exploited and so funnel money back into the state`s pockets.

Well, I actually wrote this because it will get indexed by google and perhaps help one or another, who can look past my rather boring and flawed utterances.

You could use the internet right away and start looking up some videos of latest research of various labs around the world, STED microscopy, our European Imaging with Inert Atoms INA, a.s.o. breakthroughs on all fronts be it neurobiology, biocybernetics, quantum chemistry, meterology, informatics, 2006 a breakthrough in a new variance based algorithm for rapid protein folding etc....

One of the key points of nuclear physic and a milestone for humanity occuring in the Large Hardon Collider in 2007, most likely agreeing with the Higgs field a.s.o.

The actual world around you is a completely different than you could imagine (or vice versa - that is the picture science has given me of the world around and within me is a completely different than the everyday common dull world). Anyways i realize that hardly anyone became motivated to go into science by some boring rant like this. So go watch some documentries, download some books. Use P2P

Anyways don`t be too hard on me.


lawrence
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PS: The only thing that can


PS: The only thing that can exist and is scientfically possible and indeed very likely are other particles within the framework of quantum physics as well as integrated frameworks and models superceding the standard model (but in an update like fashion - see for example neutrino oscillations as to why the standard model could need an overhaul). There are several enormous tasks still left todo, and time and thus evolution does never stop, nor does science for that matter (No discussion about: singularities). The point is that we know with certainty that there cannot be anything else but matter and energy. And i mean with total certainty. And well even you know the correlation between those two. That may clash with many of your worldviews, and it takes time too see the entierty of textbooks physics and especially experiments to understand why that is.
Indeed there may even be other dimensions, but nothing like the idiotic views spread by television series etc.

But none of this will significantly impact quantum chemistry and anything that comes beyond that, including everything you see in the material world, - including us, or any other organism, - within the physical parameters (e.g. temperature) we experience around us on the planet and its fundamental understanding of the processes going on are basically understood.

And this is what most people simply do not get, for decades we are way, way, way further at he very core of matter itself and no longer at the basic understanding of the formation of self-replicating molecules etc... (of course there are dozens of experimental projects and setups regarding each and everything, for it is vital for the process of sound science).
But the questions science faces is nothing like those esoterical BS in which even some ignorant narrow-minded scientists believe, nor about god and that supernatural crap. When i was young and ignorant i could not possible imagine how one could understand something as complex as a human being (on the contrary was always open-minded just not really that interested), but it only takes a several years of studying to get a coherent picture, not of mere models but real pictures that led to the discoveries and solidifcation of those models that made them rock solid. In relation to a lifetime a few years are nothing, especially when one considers the beauty of the worldview one gets. One will never again see the world like before, but understand the chemistry of seeing itself (the isomerization of retinal, the electron density and isoelectric surface of the molecule and its quantum mechanical description and how the wavefunction alter as it interacts with photons.) One will start to see the world as actually an interaction of energy, photons interaction with matter which illuminate, heat and reveal our very world around us. One will start to understand simple optics like the optical disc, the quantum physical description as a photon passes through, the makeup of the muscles from a macroscopic details down to the very inside of every muscle cell, and how the gene expression and regulation ultimately gives rise to lets say myosin. How this single cell communicates with its surrounding cells to align and operate correctly in order to form something like an organ and how this organs themseles can communicate and regulate themselves as well as how they are regulated by hormones commanded by the mental state a person finds itself in.

BUT above all and this is sheer unimaginable for most people, coz they are so narrow minded or just studied one field and then made their PhD in that field is how modern science indeed gives you a COMPLETE, ABSOLUTELY COHERENT and actually very simple and rational understanding - along with all the experiments that were carried out to get there, each one of them usually taking a decade - of the world around us, from stellar nucleosynthesis to the formation of the earth with the understanding of why the element abdundance is on this planet as it is, and the formation of self replicating molecules etc., to the first protocells, the evolution of cell signaling, ever more complex mechanisms to cope with a changing environment and increasing competitivness, how the geological and meterological changes influenced live on earth during its billions of years, how photons from the sun are ultimately the source of ALL the energy we use (except for the nuclear reactions occuring in the core of our earth and contributing to geothermal energy, but could not sustain us- but since there are already geothermal power plants i have to account for that as well).

And the world gets only more and more beautiful as ones awarness of it increases....since we humans are utterly curious in nature (more than any other animal), and i never had a religious background of any sorts, and grew up in an academic family so in a way curiosity was kinda instilled into me. But in a different life i could just as well have been made part of a cult, clan or religion, who learned that questioning this power structure from within or by an outsider is to be seen as an act of hatred and agression.

Is quantum physics the last chapter to be written? absolutely not, but the theory is rock solid and will be there forever. Indeed everything of the modern world is owed to it. And it is not considered one of the most successful theories of all of science for nothing. Further theories will only converge and expand or establish connections between certain mathematical theories (e.g. the unification of the fundamental forces, which themselves are mitigated by gauge bosons). Just like newtonian mechanics has not been falsified - scientifically it has, but not in the way of what those religious nuts understand by "false" - it only serves as an approximation now and so will general relativity once as well. But and this is the important part, one must have understood how quantum physics came about, the historical background and the implications it draw for our physical world, like plancks constant and HUP (Heissenberg`s uncertainty principle). Now this is something i only understood later on in my physics studies: the HUP for instance is a fundamental far reaching restriction - before that i understood the concept and math. formulation but could not understand why it should not be overcome one day as science progresses.
During my early studies i also read up about the electric universe and other "cosmology" theories, which seem rather reasonable but only because one is actually constantly ignorant and has way to few knowledge at the beginning. As knowledge is furthered one realizes that scientific mainstream is never, even in our modern world about lobbying or viewpoints but always about the most rational model drawn in consideration of all the data and evidence and why big bang cosmology is the only thing plausible, and like everything else evolving.

Be very, very weary of information that sounds scientific, and in fact is but does only represent the fringy viewpoint of one person, which you will find endlessly on the web. Wikipedia is one of the most excellent resources as far as neutrality goes, but does not cover original research. And nothing beats of course textbooks in their 4th, 5th and higher editions. Anyways i am digressing...

PSS: Educated people must understand that Evolutionists do not exist there are only evolution deniers. The term evolutionist would have to be given someone who studies and works within the mathematical framework of evolution and contributes to original research. But the world is not ideal, and since most people are stuck in the 18th century it is no wonder we are still disputing concepts and processes that one can observe everwhere and be it so much as during the drawing of a painting.

It might just be that evolution makes people interested in science, since it is such a beautiful and simple concept observable everywhere and universally acting as it is derived directly from the phsical properties of matter. But this is my own assumption i have not read any studies of the tedency of people taught evolution to go into science etc.. but as i am sure such papers exist. One can hardly grasp the scope of information that exists.

In the end everything else i have been taught by standard textbooks and university professors, teaching the same thing to hundreds of thousands of students in natural sciences for decades and is rock solid scientific fact.

Evolution is something that can be seen anywhere within the universe at any level of detail (it is an emergent property), and in fact is ultimately reducible to physical principles. And this is the point, which has been empirically shown in this decade. Besides the only common link one would have to go on is matter anyways if one systematically eliminates all the other factors one is left with the only common denominator being matter itself. Darwins "Theory of Evolution" is a concept that anyone can understand. One has to be brainwashed to not see the similarities or actually the confraternity between any primate and homo sapiens. Nor was Darwin the first to open his eyes. He is though considered a hero for biologists as he was an awesome naturalist, documented a case as solid as it could possibly be for his time on the diversification and speciation of animals on the galapagos islands - and ultimately had the balls to spread the word amongst his peers knowing most of them were brainwashed religious nuts. The rest just followed as nothing can withhold the beauty of a rational and simple theory.
Anways evolution is a full blown science by now as you can imagine, ranging from evolutionary algorithms used for trafic control, and so, so, so many other things spanning throughout all scientific fields..... besides all the fundamental research, and the maths it spans nowadays....

So one cannot question evolution only deny it, just like one can deny the flat earth, the holocaust, yada,yada.
The iranian president certainly knows even more about the holocaust than we do, but denies it publicly over and over again to push his fanatic political agenda and align with certain politcal movements and parties.
Besides, those who lead those various religious and spiritual movements in the US are mainly people who profit insanely off it. Most of those leaders are not stupid -as in brainwashed- just immoral, fucking assholes who gradually develop a god complex like Ted Haggard and so forth. I do not even wanna know what goes on behind the scenes in politics and i actually should not even have to care, if the governments would do their jobs of educting our children - our very future on which my life depends upon. Nor does the scientific world - as usually in history - give much of a a shit about the politics in their countries which increasingly deteriorate and become anti-scientific. But it is not just antiscientific, it is making science into a farce, whilst showing this parody on plasma screens, spreading it via the internet, satellites, tv programs employing the latest in software algorithms and 3D rendering. The irony surpasses anything imaginable.

But to our excuse, in todays world dominated by the media and lobbies, it is almost hopeless to even begin to argue with them. Unless there are powerful parties like the pharma industrie sponsoring pro-science propagnda not much will change. This obviously is not going to happen because if someone cannot even differentiate between praying and a drug, nor understands the simple concept of an antibiotic drug let alone life itself and thus cannot understand the future: genomic medicine and is also not willing to shell  out more than what a session of faith healing cost. And since this is not a single person but the majority of the market then why the fuck bother at all. Instead give the people what they want: old medicine that works somewhat, which fwas found by accident and not been designed (look up high throughput drug targeting, molecular modeling etc..), and get the same revenue. In the end it is horrible to be educated and live in a world that still is in the 18th century except now thanks to 21st century technology and the ubiquity of the media one can polarise people to asume any mindset one wants them to, so as to make them ideal consumers for ones useless and pointless products. I live in Europe where actually moderate Christians in the US would be considered fundamentalist and fundamentalist Christians outlawed as paramilitary groups. In fact religiosity is not much of an issue, but stupdity - that is lack of education is. You know what most highly educated people care about to a great extend their brains and their life. It was asonishing to see i am not the only one. The process of synamptomization and thus learning, is entangled with a lot of effort. And we do not give it up for nothing in inconsiderate actions, wars and whatnot. Nor do we suddenly change our minds because of a two hour propanda movie utilizing the potential of the media to the maximum. The truth is the enemy is lack of education and ignorant atheists just do not believe in god - i mean how could they, no one comes up with that crap by itself - but instead in whatever product is promoted to them.

Those fuckers broke my heart when they restricted and partially outlawed stem cell research. People how have no understanding of science or life for that mater and are the forerunnings in top leading political positions, not even realizing that they are restricting their own potential of a qualitative and long life. They are the ones that truly do not respect life, for they do not understand life itself nor the insight human psychology gave us. So in that regard next off they are gonna tell us that someone who slaughters (like lets say in a cut or burn leading to necrosis) cells invisble to the naked eye, is prone to become a mass murderer or a psychopath. Any cell can ultimately be brought back into the state of totipotency, and we are working on it intensivly, already having made quite some headway. Plants have mastered this feat of dedifferentiation for billions of years. (The term "mastered" is of course from an anthropomorphic point of view).

And here is a thought for you: The primary reason you do not see all the technology as magical or as weird is because you grew up with it and took it for granted.

Good night beloved world.

PSSS: Will proof read this tomorrow.


lawrence
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SO WHAT IS THE POINT...

Disputing gravity is one thing. I could even live with that and call a person as not exactly having considered all the facts and perhaps assumed and read some fringy viewpoint, and indeed gravity is not such a simple issue and will provide us with riddels for quite some time to come. In that regard YOUR support of astronomy is vital since the best physics lab we have for testing and understanding gravity is the universe itself. I mean the core understanding of evolution itself is not that easy but IS fundamentally understood and understandable.

The concept of evolution is however a three liner that once told to a 6 year old is understood and rationalized.

But disputing evolution is just impossible. And claiming "evidence for evolution" is a frigging joke making science into a farce. That is like saying consider the "evidence for thermodynamics". I mean seriously what are we crusaders praying to the god of the sun, that he shall not give us a magical sunburn through a centimeter of amor. Every process in the world we see is underlying evolutionary principles. Now fucking explain to me how much sense it makes to try to explain a religious person evolution when it has accepted to associated evoltuion with god.

Evolution is an emergent property of matter. The shape of a macroscopic crystal reveals the emergent properties of its atomic structur again due to the same universal physical laws acting anywhere in the universe and so forth.


Just like the emergence of speech is a convergence of neurological processes within and around BROCA`s area, and we humans all ultimately express and think in speech one can make a person believe that sometimes this thought language is an interaction with god, especially when one induces a state of trance in this person. There is also much research done involving the temporal lobe in spirituality and out of body feelings (CT,MRI, Tensor imaging, SQUID magnetometry,...). So instead try to ask those religious persons

*how they believe all those technologies of the 21st century came about, since most of them were done by godless atheists.

*How it is that all their preachers are using technologies of godless atheists and do not live in harmony with god like the Amish folks in a lifestyle the bible intended.
*How they do not realize how the modern religions have become perversions, and how Americans can justify the differences between European christians and Americans Christians, or if they are in denial of Columbus as well now
*Ask them how they know that their preachers are not false ones, of which the bible warns in countless of paragraphs, since so far they certainly have not done much good nor spawned any miracles whilst preacher x,y,z, etc.. has (then show them some shitty propaganda for another religion)
*Ask them why they do not take drugs, as most likely it was the way god inteded it to be in order to establish a pristine connection with their minds, and of course drugs are all natural for us to pick from the garden of even so to speak.

*Ask them why it is that underucated people are bashing in each others skulls, whilst theologians and any other academics hardly do, and how they know that their god did not intend for them to learn about his grand creation, and surely gods creation must be more than just same lame ass 5 page story. Even the stuiest of persons must see through theis heinous act of blasphemy and they will all member of this cult will clearly go to hell and their lives taken as soon as possible
*ask them how come there is so much shit in the holy scriptures written by blasphemers and satanically possesed people and few paragraphs the true words of god, such as those countless ones hinting at the fallacies of man and false prophets.
*Ask them how they can justify listening to preachers when apparently man could never be trusted, but only the creation of god that is nature itself can. As clearly nature is in gods image and man is part of nature and thus god.

*Ask them how they can justify in believing in false religions if apparently science is the only true religion bettering the lives of its "cult members" known as scientists, whilst establishing great peace and respect amgonst those members. It is only the infidels (atheists) and all other religions (false worshippers) that try to incorporate and steal this knowledge of this pure religion "science" but science their own religion is ultimately satanic so will god not tolerate the incorporation of his pure words into any of those satanic derivations led by false prophets who do not listen to gods word: nature itself. This is the reason why technology used by infidels and false worshippers, that is blasphemers always results in catastrophy and annihilation. For those religions are not pure but a clear work of the devil trying to take over the world. Explain to them the fact that there are thousands of religions out there all suffering from great tragedy due to all the blasphemers in those religions. Those blasphemers, of unpure origin and minds, all use technology - the work of god - but it always results in the work of the devil

*Argue that when the ponder that so many people cannot be wrong, "just look in your holy scripture and what god did to them". Elaborate that clearly the increasing suffering is because this religion like all others are blaspheming against god. Further your argument by explaining how only those who are educated and are secretly followers of the religion "science" are of pure heart and mind and spreading good in the world.

*Aks them how they can justify using modern technology when nothing of this is mentioned not even symbolically in their holy scriptures and how they can draw the idiotic conclusion that it is safe to use going completely unpunished and not just being another ruse of the devil.

*Make them realize that in reality their personal and egoistic feeling of well being and luxury is due to technology (of course that is BS) and that their religion is a derivation of another religion which is blasphemous but not nearly as much a perversion as their own.

*Ask them how every mutherfucking asshole suddenly can become a preacher and send off tens of thousands of kids into a war that has never been authorized by god himself. You know that because you spoke with god and your word as a true believer is mor valuable than that of the false leader using technology, whilst you lived your whole life like a person in complete compliance with the religious creed.

*Argue that gods wrath is increasingly noticable within oneself, - one must only truly listen, and that all those blasphemers out there of which one has become a part now are cause for all the suffering in this world.

*And above all pose as someone of their religion or as an ex-member and tell some sad, weepy story how their god took all your little children, you did not have the money to buy them medicine and could not have justified that as it would have been against the will of god.
Then after the god you once believed in has taken one kid after another your brother whom you sooooo loved was shot for a lousy hundred bucks. Later on you realized that the scriptures warn about false prophets within the scripture and all around you and truly god and thus a good live can only be found by seeking out for good, that is by becoming a naturalist.

For Christians quote that over and over again:
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Micah 2:11 (NIV)
If a liar and deceiver comes and says, 'I will prophesy for you plenty of wine and beer,' he would be just the prophet for this people!

King James Bible
Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought °, and the deceit of their heart.

Lamentations 2:14 Thy prophets have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity °; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment.

Matthew 7:15 Beware ° of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so ° did their fathers to the false prophets.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

--------

 

If you wanna change something exploit their lack of critical thinking and human psychology do not work against it - no one trying to manipulate someone else can afford this. It is pointless and moronic. And as always NOTHING works better than by establishing some deeply conflicting very sad story about your shitty live or whatever.

Anyone who has a problem with that on a "moral basis" just ignore it, i did not issue a fatwa nor a commandment. You gotta realise that moral is as individual as someones point of view.

Evolution is an emergent property of matter. The shape of a macroscopic crystal reveals the emergent properties of its atomic structur again due to the same universal physical laws acting anywhere in the universe and so forth.


Anyways this will be my last post, as i cannot afford any more time anyways, make the best of it or don`t - haven`t proof read it so it may be hard to read at some points. To those who are conflicted with this: I respect your views, please grant me the same.


lawrence
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For those interested...

http://www.atlas.ch/multimedia/feature_atlas.html

Liberate yourself through education. Roam P2P, discover the beauty of modern science and choose an academic career!


Iruka Naminori
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Posts: 1955
Joined: 2006-11-21
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Is it "meme-time"?

If the Christian religion has been thoroughly discredited, let's start saying so.  We have the facts to back it up, so why not?  Put Christians on defense for once, as was done with the Blasphemy Challenge. Smiling

 

LH 

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