hey everyone, i got something to say

the only one th...
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hey everyone, i got something to say

i discovered this website by checking the fourms on my school in myspace. there was enough attacks on christianity so i took it to consideration to retaliate.

we all beleive something, in a god, in no god, its just human nature to be skeptical. i know i was once but i've seen the true power of christ. im not here to say to come to christ, i only want to get somethings clear. let me touch on some topics which christianity definitly wins

christmas:
this is a god believing holiday, it represents the birth of jesus christ. over time people got the meaning of it wrong. how come no one is offended by haunica or quanza? i find it sad and kinda somewhat quincidenal. you take santa and rearange the letters you get "satan". they come once a year trying to get little kids away from the the true meaning

under god:
this nation was founded by the christians teachings of god and in the bill of rights under the first amendment it says that we have the freedom of religion. that only ment that we could worship our god in any way, not if we want to or not.

easter:
ok, how dose one asociate bunnys and eggs with the death of jesus christ? this is just plain wrong. this was definitly the act of a envyous athiest. im not pointing fingers or anything.

if you guys want to discuss any thing with me post it in here.


Yellow_Number_Five
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the only one that believes

the only one that believes wrote:
i discovered this website by checking the fourms on my school in myspace. there was enough attacks on christianity so i took it to consideration to retaliate.

we all beleive something, in a god, in no god, its just human nature to be skeptical. i know i was once but i've seen the true power of christ. im not here to say to come to christ, i only want to get somethings clear. let me touch on some topics which christianity definitly wins.

christmas:
this is a god believing holiday, it represents the birth of jesus christ. over time people got the meaning of it wrong. how come no one is offended by haunica or quanza? i find it sad and kinda somewhat quincidenal. you take santa and rearange the letters you get "satan". they come once a year trying to get little kids away from the the true meaning

Chritsmas is a CLEAR adaptation of pagan winter solace festivals.

view these Chritians saying EXACTLY that:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/christians_join_the_war_on_christmas

Quote:
under god:
this nation was founded by the christians teachings of god and in the bill of rights under the first amendment it says that we have the freedom of religion. that only ment that we could worship our god in any way, not if we want to or not.

This nation was NOT founded by Christians, it was founded by revolutionaries who knew the dangers of dogma and pretence. Read the Constitution and Declaration - how many references do you see to Jesus, Christianity or your god? None.

They mention a vague deistic Creator, once.

You may wish to read the Treaty of Tripoli as well, in which is states in no uncertain terms that the US is NOT a Christian nation and was not founded as such.

We are founded in secularism and religious freedom not because of god belief and Christianity, but rather in spite of it.

Quote:
easter:
ok, how dose one asociate bunnys and eggs with the death of jesus christ? this is just plain wrong. this was definitly the act of a envyous athiest. im not pointing fingers or anything.

if you guys want to discuss any thing with me post it in here.

Easter was also adapted from Pagan traditions. I know it is difficult to accept, but it's the truth. See the video I posted.

You can find a humourous slant on it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e73JVICyA8

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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Rook_Hawkins
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the only one that believes

the only one that believes wrote:
i discovered this website by checking the fourms on my school in myspace. there was enough attacks on christianity so i took it to consideration to retaliate.

Lets see how you do...

Quote:
we all beleive something, in a god, in no god,

You can't "believe" in nothing. Nothing does not exist...hense the reason it is "nothing." Do you believe in no toothfairy or do you just NOT believe in a toothfairy? We do NOT believe in a God. Hense, we don't believe.

That isn't to say we don't have beliefs in other things. Or as some people put it, we have a "reasonable expectation". For example, it is pointless to believe that we will wake up tomorrow. In fact, for many people, they won't wake up tomorrow, even if they believe they will. Belief is simply a word, defined, and has no true bearing on reality. The same thing goes for faith. However, we can make have a reasonable expectation that tomorrow will come, as it has come for us the past, it is also important to have a reasonable expectation that it won't come. This should not be confused with being paranoid, as a reasonable expectation is based off probability.

For example, it's probable that tomorrow I will wake up like any other day, but a very small percentage says I won't, for any reason that you can think of (or can't think of) which may prevent my rising tomorrow. But I can still reasonably expect to rise tomorrow, so I can still make all the preparations for tomorrow. The difference between you and I, however, is that I take into account the small percentage too. Get it?

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its just human nature to be skeptical.

No, it's human nature to be gullible. This is why infomercials do so well.

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i know i was once but i've seen the true power of christ.

Prove it.

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im not here to say to come to christ,

Yes you are, don't lie.

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i only want to get somethings clear. let me touch on some topics which christianity definitly wins

Oooo...he used the absolute word "definitely" which means it MUST be true! Raised Brow

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christmas:
this is a god believing holiday, it represents the birth of jesus christ.

Wrong. Christmas was a pagan holiday first, used to celebrate the Winter Solstice, and the births of several Greek, Roman, and Celtic Gods - the main festival of course being Natalis Invicti (Also known as the solar-feast), and holds the claim as being the most seductive reason for moving the date to December 25th.

In fact, the first four centuries consisted of Christians putting Christs birth in the SPRING, and sometimes even in the fall. Clement of Alexander (second century - 150 years after Jesus' supposed death) placed the birth of Christ in MAY in the year 28 of Augustus out of "curiosity". (Strom., I, xxi in P.G., VIII, 888) and others during April and even March! (Cyprian; P.L., IV, 963 sqq)

It isn't until the forth century, where Jesus' birth is placed in the winter months, still ignored the winter solstice, even though it was the most widely celebrated month in the winter seasons. In fact, most early Christians MOCKED the Greeks and the Romans for celebrating the birthdays of Gods. (Origen)

The date of December 25th did not come about until the mid-forth century under direction of a Ecumenical Council.

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over time people got the meaning of it wrong.

Yes, the Christians got the meaning of December 25th completely wrong by repressing all other beliefs save their own on a world which had been celebrating the solar-feast for hundreds of years - and the births of Gods on this date for even longer. Not to mention the changing of seasons, which dated back THOUSANDS of years before Christian bishops ever voted to claim the patent.

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how come no one is offended by haunica or quanza?

Mainly because these dates were stolen from other people, and then forced down other peoples throats?

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i find it sad and kinda somewhat quincidenal. you take santa and rearange the letters you get "satan".

Santa Claus, or St. St. Nicholas of Myra was a REAL person, whom was also known as "Father Christmas." There is a lot of myth to the real person, but Nicholas of Myra died on the 6th of December, in the mid forth-century. New Advent, or the Catholic Online Encyclopedia states, "In Germany, Switzerland, and the Netherlands, they have the custom of making him the secret purveyor of gifts to children on 6 December, the day on which the Church celebrates his feast; in the United States and some other countries St. Nicholas has become identified with Santa Claus who distributes gifts to children on Christmas eve. His relics are still preserved in the church of San Nicola in Bari;"

So, Santa was really a man of God. And the name "santa" is a mispronunciation of the Dutch Sinterklaas, which is a contracted form of Sint Nicolaas (Saint Nicholas). Santa has nothing to do with Satan.

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they come once a year trying to get little kids away from the the true meaning

You mean, folks dressed up as a Saint try to pull the kids away from the Solar-Feast, or the rebirth of Dionysus - the Greek God? Is this what you're getting at? Because based on the reality of Christmas, your comments make no sense in any other context - other then to prove how little you know about a holiday you celebrate yearly.

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under god:
this nation was founded by the christians teachings of god

False, false, false. Read the following:

Whenever the Supreme Court makes a decision that in any way restricts the intrusion of religion into the affairs of government, a flood of editorials, articles, and letters protesting the ruling is sure to appear in the newspapers. Many protesters decry these decisions on the grounds that they conflict with the wishes and intents of the "founding fathers."

Such a view of American history is completely contrary to known facts. The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial intelligentsia at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself entirely from the universe after creating it. They believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no supernatural revelation to man. A necessary consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration of the Bible.

These beliefs were forcefully articulated by Thomas Paine in Age of Reason, a book that so outraged his contemporaries that he died rejected and despised by the nation that had once revered him as "the father of the American Revolution." To this day, many mistakenly consider him an atheist, even though he was an out spoken defender of the Deistic view of God. Other important founding fathers who espoused Deism were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison, and James Monroe. (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html)

To back up this claim, here are some quotes from these men on religion and founding the nation:

In a letter to Adams, Thomas Jefferson wrote, "And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (April 11, 1823). These were hardly the words of a devout Bible-believer.

In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33)

This is also from the above-mentioned link, "James Madison, Jefferson's close friend and political ally, was just as vigorously opposed to religious intrusions into civil affairs as Jefferson was. In 1785, when the Commonwealth of Virginia was considering passage of a bill "establishing a provision for Teachers of the Christian Religion," Madison wrote his famous "Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments" in which he presented fifteen reasons why government should not be come involved in the support of any religion. This paper, long considered a landmark document in political philosophy, was also cited in the majority opinion in Lee vs. Weisman. The views of Madison and Jefferson prevailed in the Virginia Assembly, and in 1786, the Assembly adopted the statute of religious freedom of which Jefferson and Madison were the principal architects. The preamble to this bill said that "to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical." The statute itself was much more specific than the establishment clause of the U. S. Constitution "Be it therefore enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in nowise [sic] diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities"."

The Reverend Bird Wilson, who was just a few years removed from being a contemporary of the so-called founding fathers, said that "the founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, John Quincy Adams, and Andrew Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity" (Remsberg, p. 120, emphasis added).

Dr. Wilson's sermon, which was published in the Albany Daily Advertiser the month it was delivered also made an interesting observation that flatly contradicts the frantic efforts of present-day fundamentalists to make the "founding fathers" orthodox Christians:

  1. When the war was over and the victory over our enemies won, and the blessings and happiness of liberty and peace were secured, the Constitution was framed and God was neglected. He was not merely forgotten. He was absolutely voted out of the Constitution. The proceedings, as published by Thompson, the secretary, and the history of the day, show that the question was gravely debated whether God should be in the Constitution or not, and after a solemn debate he was deliberately voted out of it.... There is not only in the theory of our government no recognition of God's laws and sovereignty, but its practical operation, its administration, has been conformable to its theory. Those who have been called to administer the government have not been men making any public profession of Christianity.... Washington was a man of valor and wisdom. He was esteemed by the whole world as a great and good man; but he was not a professing Christian (quoted by Remsberg, pp. 120-121, emphasis added).

The publication of Wilson's sermon in the Daily Advertiser attracted the attention of Robert Owen, who then personally visited Wilson to discuss the matter of Washington's religious views. Owen summarized the results of that visit in a letter to Amos Gilbert dated November 13, 1831:

  1. I called last evening on Dr. Wilson, as I told you I should, and I have seldom derived more pleasure from a short interview with anyone. Unless my discernment of character has been grievously at fault, I met an honest man and sincere Christian. But you shall have the particulars. A gentleman of this city accompanied me to the Doctor's residence. We were very courteously received. I found him a tall, commanding figure, with a countenance of much benevolence, and a brow indicative of deep thought, apparently approaching fifty years of age. I opened the interview by stating that though personally a stranger to him, I had taken the liberty of calling in consequence of having perused an interesting sermon of his, which had been reported in the Daily Advertiser of this city, and regarding which, as he probably knew, a variety of opinions prevailed. In a discussion, in which I had taken a part, some of the facts as there reported had been questioned; and I wished to know from him whether the reporter had fairly given his words or not.... I then read to him from a copy of the Daily Advertiser the paragraph which regards Washington, beginning, "Washington was a man," etc. and ending, "absented himself altogether from the church." "I endorse," said Dr. Wilson, with emphasis, "every word of that. Nay, I do not wish to conceal from you any part of the truth, even what I have not given to the public. Dr. Abercrombie said more than I have repeated. At the close of our conversation on the subject his emphatic expression was--for I well remember the very words--`Sir, Washington was a Deist.'"

In concluding the interview, Dr. Wilson said "I have diligently perused every line that Washington ever gave to the public, and I do not find one expression in which he pledges him self as a believer in Christianity. I think anyone who will candidly do as I have done, will come to the conclusion that he was a Deist and nothing more" (Remsberg, pp. 121-122, emphasis added)

In February 1800, after Washington's death, Thomas Jefferson wrote this statement in his personal journal

  1. Dr. Rush told me (he had it from Asa Green) that when the clergy addressed General Washington, on his departure from the government, it was observed in their consultation that he had never, on any occasion, said a word to the public which showed a belief in the Christian religion, and they thought they should so pen their address as to force him at length to disclose publicly whether he was a Christian or not. However, he observed, the old fox was too cunning for them. He answered every article of their address particularly, except that, which he passed over without notice....

    I know that Gouverneur Morris [principal drafter of the constitution], who claimed to be in his secrets, and believed him self to be so, has often told me that General Washington believed no more in that system [Christianity] than he did" (quoted in Remsberg, p. 123 from Jefferson's Works, Vol. 4, p. 572, emphasis added).

And to hammer the point home:

Dr. Moncure D. Conway, who was once employed to edit a volume of Washington's letters, wrote an article entitled "The Religion of Washington," from which Remsberg quoted the following:

In editing a volume of Washington's private letters for the Long Island Historical Society, I have been much impressed by indications that this great historic personality represented the Liberal religious tendency of his time. That tendency was to respect religious organizations as part of the social order, which required some minister to visit the sick, bury the dead, and perform marriages. It was considered in nowise inconsistent with disbelief of the clergyman's doctrines to contribute to his support, or even to be a vestryman in his church.

In his many letters to his adopted nephew and younger relatives, he admonishes them about their manners and morals, but in no case have I been able to discover any suggestion that they should read the Bible, keep the Sabbath, go to church, or any warning against Infidelity.

Washington had in his library the writings of Paine, Priestley, Voltaire, Frederick the Great, and other heretical works (pp. 128-129, emphasis added)."

That should clear up all that mess with the fathers of our country being Christians.

Quote:
and in the bill of rights under the first amendment it says that we have the freedom of religion.

Here is what the First Amendment states on Religion:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

That's all it states. That the Government of the United States cannot make a law which deals specifically with ANY religion, nor can it make a law which effects the freedom of following a religion or NOT.

And, last but not least, the whole reason we started a war of independance was because of RELIGIOUS TYRANNY!

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that only ment that we could worship our god in any way, not if we want to or not.

Way to completely get the facts all wrong. Not looking so good for you, is it?

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easter:
ok, how dose one asociate bunnys and eggs with the death of jesus christ? this is just plain wrong. this was definitly the act of a envyous athiest. im not pointing fingers or anything.

Wow, you really don't know a thing about your holidays histories do you? Easter has been celebrated for thousands of years, long before your Christian bishops ever took the patent and locked it away during the first Council of Nicea in the forth century! (Again, forth century = hundreds of years after the death of your supposed savior)

To explain the "bunnys and eggs" thing to you, lets look at the history. This is derived directly from the celtic God Ostara. (You can read more HERE) In ancient Anglo-Saxon myth, Ostara is the personification of the rising sun. In that capacity she is associated with the spring and is considered to be a fertility goddess. She is the friend of all children and to amuse then she changed her pet bird into a rabbit. This rabbit brought forth brightly colored eggs, which the goddess gave to the children as gifts. From her name and rites the festival of Easter is derived. Ostara is identical to the Greek Eos and the Roman Aurora.

Eos, Ostara abd Aurora were all Goddesses of the Sun. Just as the Solar-Feast in December, the Christians wanted to personify their Gods, and in doing so wanted them to be the "light of the world." The Sun-Gods/Godesses already had been worshipped for thousands of years by various other cultures, and both fell into the changes of the new seasons. Christians adapted these dates and myths into their cultures, and Christians today celebrate Christmas and Easter as a mixture of both Pagan and Christian traditions.

This has nothing to do with atheists or pagans, but a church trying desperately to bring in more money and blind followers 1700 years ago.

You can also learn more on Easter from New Advent HERE.

I can sit here and teach you things for hours, and I hope you come away from this a little less arrogant then you came into it. The fact is, most Christians are blind and ignorant about the history of their religion and it's dogma and practicies. You were no different. It must suck being out-witted and out-learned by somebody who doesn't even worship your God, participate in your feasts, celebrate your holidays, or believe in your Bible, and who knows that your savior is a myth.

So what's the final count? Atheists: 10; Christian: 0

Damn, that really must hurt, brother.

Hope you gain some rational prespective,

Rook Hawkins

Atheist Books, purchases on Amazon support the Rational Response Squad server, which houses Celebrity Atheists. Books by Rook Hawkins (Thomas Verenna)


Sapient
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Oh joy... the easy

Oh joy... the easy stuff...

First may I say welcome aboard. I hope your skepticism is joined by an open mind, so this new knowledge becomes easy to grasp. This stuff has been refuted over and over so I'll just point you to some information that will help you understand the history. Also, I am trying to avoid typing for hours, as I'm not sure whether you're a "go in one ear and out the other" kinda guy.

the only one that believes wrote:

christmas:
this is a god believing holiday, it represents the birth of jesus christ. over time people got the meaning of it wrong.

Actually Christmas is basically a stolen holiday in which the meaning of the original holiday ended up being bastardized by Christians. As I said, I'll just point you in the right direction....

This video explains the real "reason for the season"

This video is a video of Christians on a televangelist show explaining to other Christians how bad Christians have twisted Christmas:

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how come no one is offended by haunica or quanza?

Hanukkah or Kwanzaa. Why would we be offended by them? We're not offended by Christmas or Hanukkah or Kwanzaa.

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i find it sad and kinda somewhat quincidenal. you take santa and rearange the letters you get "satan".

It's "coincidental."

There's also this...

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they come once a year trying to get little kids away from the the true meaning

Well if people are stealing Christmas from Christians, maybe the Christians should've thought about that before they stole Saturnalia from the Pagans. boo hooo

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under god:
this nation was founded by the christians teachings of god

No it wasn't. I'd ask you to provide proof but I know the answer already. You seem to simply be spouting off the lies your Church has taught you or maybe your Christian teacher. It's sad, because you likely wont get this. It could be too hard for you to realize that the people who are around you are ignorant fools (that or liars).

There is nothing about the founding of this country that is anymore Christian that Muslim or Jewish or atheistic. It was founded by men of varying religious or non-religious backgrounds. Thomas Jefferson was a deist, he was not a Christian, in fact he thought Christianity was ridiculous. The same goes for Thomas Paine who wrote a scathing attack on Christianity called "Age of Reason." Benjamin Franklin was a skeptic and the list goes on and on.

Here are some quotes from our founding fathers:

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." -- Thomas Paine

"It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man."
-- Thomas Paine

"The study of theology, as it stands in Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on nothing; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing and admits of no conclusion." -- Thomas Paine

"No falsehood is so fatal as that which is made an article of faith."
-- Thomas Paine

"The Bible: a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalise mankind." -- Thomas Paine

"The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense."
-- Thomas Paine

MY PERSONAL FAVORITE:
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon that the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and for my own part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel." -- Thomas Paine

"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion."
-- Thomas Paine

Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote our Constitution

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."--- Thomas Jefferson

"I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you. -- Thomas Jefferson

"It is an insult to our citizens to question whether they are rational beings or not, and blasphemy against religion to suppose it cannot stand the test of truth and reason." -- Thomas Jefferson

""The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites." - Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Ben Franklin

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -- Benjamin Franklin

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect." -- James Madison

"Congress should not establish a religion, and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any Manner contrary to their conscience." -- James Madison

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" -- John Adams,

"Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it." -- John Adams

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world." -- John Adams,

"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity.... Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism." -- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831; first sentence quoted in John E Remsbert, "Six Historic Americans," second sentence quoted in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15

_________
Aside from all of these quotes the founding fathers thought it was important to note very clearly that America was not a Christian nation or founded on the Christian religion, and they said so in "The Treaty of Tripoli" This is the nail in the coffin of your argument, the clincher, you can't refute it.

""As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" - Treaty of Tripoli

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

Finally on this point I can offer you an audio file from a friend of mine, who addresses the question: Is America a Christian Nation:
http://www.asktheatheist.com/question/is_america_a_christian_nation

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and in the bill of rights under the first amendment it says that we have the freedom of religion.

No, it doesn't say that. It says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of Religion." In other words, in the 1950's when Congress added the words "under God" to our pledge, and "In god we trust" became our motto and went on our money, the Congress VIOLATED our Constitution which was written to ensure something like that would never happen. The moment you let something like that happen is the moment you open the gates for it to one day say "One Nation Under Allah" if enough Muslims ever are elected to Congress. The law was written to protect you from having an official government endorsement of a religion that you don't agree with and also avoid you having to agree with a non-religion. Would you like it if it said "In Charles Darwin we trust" ?

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that only ment that we could worship our god in any way, not if we want to or not.

This sentence doesn't make sense on two levels:

1. It's incoherent.
2. Trying to read between the lines one realizes it's wrong.

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easter:
ok, how dose one asociate bunnys and eggs with the death of jesus christ? this is just plain wrong.

Yeah I agree. How bout you google it to find out? If you watched the video above you'll have heard by now that the eggs and the bunnys are from pagan fertility. Easter too is a holiday stolen by Christians and bastardized to fit their meaning. The first Easter celebration ocurred about 2,400 years before Christ was even said to have lived. Do your research kiddo, your simply spouting off views given to us by some of the most ignorant people in our society.

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this was definitly the act of a envyous athiest. im not pointing fingers or anything.

Funny how you started this post by saying that you're talking about things that Christianity definetly wins and two of the examples you gave are examples of Christianity stealing holidays from Pagans. One might expect that your official stance will now be that these are things that Pagans win.

In summation you say that "this was definetly the act of an envious atheist," no my friend it wasn't. It was the act of dishonest and power hungry Catholic men.


Keep an open mind, and man.... you got a shitload of research to do. Don't take out word for it, look it all up yourself. Congratulations, apparently you've been hit by an RRS trifecta. Welcome to the party.

- Brian Sapient


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Apokalipse
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"we all beleive something" I

"we all beleive something"
I don't "beleive" something"
however, I do believe that Christianity is stupid. so many biblical contradictions

"in a god, in no god"
actually, I'm neither. I don't believe there is a god, but I don't "believe there is no god"
I just lack belief in any gods.
However, I do hold that the probability of any god existing is so small that it's about a bee's dick from zero.

Quote:
christmas:
this is a god believing holiday,
for a lot of people, yes. but really, there's no rule against people having a christmas and not believing in a god. for us who do not believe in a god, it's just a holiday where people exchange gifts, as a reward for a year's hard work. we don't have to believe in god just because we want to exchange gifts one day.
Quote:
over time people got the meaning of it wrong.
oh, most people know the original meaning. it's just that a lot of us don't care what it's original meaning was. again, to a lot of us who don't believe in a god, it is simply a reward at the end of the year.

Quote:
they come once a year trying to get little kids away from the the true meaning
"the true meaning" itself means absolutely nothing if the religion it's based on is false, which it is very likely to be (especially with all those biblical contradictions)

Quote:
under god:
this nation was founded by the christians teachings of god and in the bill of rights under the first amendment it says that we have the freedom of religion. that only ment that we could worship our god in any way, not if we want to or not.
have you actually read the first amendment?
what part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" don't you understand?

Quote:
easter:
ok, how dose one asociate bunnys and eggs with the death of jesus christ? this is just plain wrong. this was definitly the act of a envyous athiest. im not pointing fingers or anything.
actually, it's about Jesus's alleged resurrection. the eggs are there as a symbol, because new life forms from them.

which of course still means nothing with the lack of evidence to support the story (Jesus's resurrection)


faith
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first of all im a devoted

first of all im a devoted christian, and im going to go ahead and throw this out:
wouldent it make more sense to live for God and be a christian, then die and find out that there was no God but still die a good person than to live your life not for God and die finding out that you were wrong and go to Hell?
Thats all.


DrFear
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no, it doesn't make sense at

no, it doesn't make sense at all to believe in god and be a christian 'just in case'.
FYI, this idea you've thrown in is a common one, it is known as "Pascal's Wager".
we are perfectly capable of living our lives as good people without christianity, just as much as a christian is perfectly capable of being a murderous, child molesting necrophiliac.
happy day!

Fear is the mindkiller.


Kemono
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faith wrote:wouldent it

faith wrote:

wouldent it make more sense to live for God and be a christian, then die and find out that there was no God but still die a good person than to live your life not for God and die finding out that you were wrong and go to Hell?

This deeply flawed argument is known as Pascal's Wager. Please read the Wikipedia article first. If the article does not convince you of the argument's fallaciousness, I will be happy to rip the Wager apart for you.

EDIT: I see I was beaten to it by DrFear. Well spoken, Doctor.


MattShizzle
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Not Pascal's wager again.

Not Pascal's wager again. Head Bash


froeth
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Wouldn't it make sense to

Wouldn't it make sense to live a good life because you want to, and that's what makes you happy? That certainly makes more sense to me than to live a certain way because an invisible, omnipotent man told people thousands of years ago to write a book that says you should.

Basically, you think we should all be Christians to cover our own asses? Why not, then, become Taoists, or Jews? Especially, I would think, we should all be Jewish, since Jesus himself was a Jew. That makes more sense, I think.

But, considering your entire arguement makes very little sense at all, that isn't saying much.

I'm not 'bashing' you because I'm an atheist. I'm 'correcting' you, because you're closeminded.

I'm not 'bashing' you because I'm an atheist. I'm 'correcting' you, because you're closeminded.


Sapient
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faith wrote: wouldent it

faith wrote:

wouldent it make more sense to live for God and be a christian, then die and find out that there was no God but still die a good person than to live your life not for God and die finding out that you were wrong and go to Hell?
Thats all.

Ok first to add to the flawed logic of Pascals Wager, here are more people responding to the same question.

Additionally I'd like to draw your attention to the magical teapot that orbits around the sun. The magical teapot will commit you to a lake of fire (hence the orbitting of the sun) when you die if you don't believe in it. So based on your logic, I assume you now believe in the magical teapot correct? If you don't, why don't you?

Wouldnt it make more sense to live for the magical teapot and be a teapotist, then die and find out that there was no teapot but still die a good person than to live your life not for the teapot and die finding out that you were wrong and go to teapot hell?

- Brian Sapient


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morning star
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quote]we all beleive

Quote:
we all beleive something, in a god, in no god, its just human nature to be skeptical. i know i was once but i've seen the true power of christ. im not here to say to come to christ, i only want to get somethings clear. let me touch on some topics which christianity definitly wins

No we don't what a delusionary statement, I for one don't,OK.
Next point; you have seen the 'true' power of christ(you spell, christ in 'lower case', really you must try to honour a noun with more 'upper case). Please explain this awesome power, with at least some evidence-based, reality.
Your not asking, "come to (C)christ,".Where's he hanging out these days? Clear, what like your delusional mental state? Least you've made a start by coming to this site!
Christianity WINS; this is going to be interesting!

Quote:

christmas:
this is a god believing holiday, it represents the birth of jesus christ. over time people got the meaning of it wrong. how come no one is offended by haunica or quanza? i find it sad and kinda somewhat quincidenal. you take santa and rearange the letters you get "satan". they come once a year trying to get little kids away from the the true meaning]

Christmas is a god believing holiday? True, but many 1000 of years before the god your pertaining to.The Pagans celebrated the 'Winter Solistice',between December22-25, these 3 days marking the end of the suns path southwards and starting its return to the northern hemisphere.(god=sun)
The 'Christmas we know of today was conceived during the 1800s, by the Victorians(boxing day,presents,bright decorations,etc.).
How old are you? rearrange 'Santa' you get 'Satan'? no comment! Santa (modern times) conceived by the beverage company 'Coca Cola'. Also Nordic countries had a character they acquainted to with a similar description as the Coca Cola character, the difference being he consumed large quanties of 'magic mushrooms' maybe thats where the reindeers flying through the sky and little 'elfs' were born through the hallucinogenic properties of the mushies.

Quote:
easter:
ok, how dose one asociate bunnys and eggs with the death of jesus christ? this is just plain wrong. this was definitly the act of a envyous athiest. im not pointing fingers or anything.
Again its based on Pagan Festivals, the rabbits and eggs, depicting the time in Spring when most animals are having their young. Sorry no comment on Jesus as its not available for comment.(bs)


darth_josh
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Friggin' "holidays" brings

Friggin' "holidays" brings them out of the woodwork.

Too bad there isn't a reading comprehension test before registering as a member.

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neon
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the only one that believes

the only one that believes wrote:
i discovered this website by checking the fourms on my school in myspace. there was enough attacks on christianity so i took it to consideration to retaliate.

Ooh! Aah! Those naughty atheists wrote words! Therefore I will write more words!

They have thoughts! How dare they! I must... *retaliate!*

Head Bash

the only one that believes wrote:
we all beleive something, in a god, in no god, its just human nature to be skeptical.

You just contradicted yourself.

the only one that believes wrote:

i know i was once but i've seen the true power of christ.

But not the true power of your English teacher.

the only one that believes wrote:

im not here to say to come to christ,

Yes, you are.

the only one that believes wrote:

i only want to get somethings clear. let me touch on some topics which christianity definitly wins

And you contradict yourself for the second time.

the only one that believes wrote:

christmas:
this is a god believing holiday, it represents the birth of jesus christ.

Wrong. It is the Saturnalia. Look it up.

Feel good that you're worshipping the Roman polytheist gods?

the only one that believes wrote:

over time people got the meaning of it wrong.

Well, if Jesus existed at all, which is doubtful, it is a fiat that he could not have been born on the 25th of December. So I don't see how people could be getting it wrong, when it has never been right.

the only one that believes wrote:

how come no one is offended by haunica or quanza?

You mean Hanukkah and Kwanzaa?

Why don't you learn about things before you make declarations about them? The very briefest stroll through the dictionary would have shown you more about those holidays than you currently know.

Get your head out of your ass and stop being an isolationist Christian chauvinist.

the only one that believes wrote:

i find it sad and kinda somewhat quincidenal.

Cursing Man

You mean "coincidental"?

Were you making up the last word as you went along?

the only one that believes wrote:

you take santa and rearange the letters you get "satan".

Wow, you're loopy.

Puzzled

the only one that believes wrote:

they come once a year trying to get little kids away from the the true meaning

What?

the only one that believes wrote:

under god:
this nation was founded by the christians teachings of god

Wrong. Hugely wrong.

This nation was not founded by teachings. I didn't know teachings could found anything.

This nation was founded by deists who fought to free the American colonies from a tyrannical English monarchy. All thirteen colonies had official religions. All persecuted those who practiced any others. It was this principle with which the Founding Fathers broke when they wrote the First Amendment, giving you the right to your own beliefs, but forbidding the government from establishing a religion.

the only one that believes wrote:

and in the bill of rights under the first amendment it says that we have the freedom of religion. that only ment that we could worship our god in any way, not if we want to or not.

Whoa! What is this, the Spanish Inquisition?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

Read it. Please.

the only one that believes wrote:

easter:
ok, how dose one asociate bunnys and eggs with the death of jesus christ? this is just plain wrong.

Bunnies and eggs are symbols of fertility and rebirth. They predate Christianity, as does the holiday.

the only one that believes wrote:

this was definitly the act of a envyous athiest. im not pointing fingers or anything.

Uh, yes you are. You just called them envious. And that's how it's spelled.

You're also completely wrong.

the only one that believes wrote:

if you guys want to discuss any thing with me post it in here.

If you want to get a clue anytime soon, let us know.


Kevinissmart
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Language

Why is it that Christians can't spell and have no knowledge of how to structure sentences? You can't try to act smart and spell coincidental with a q, Kwaza with a q, and completely mangle the word Hanukah which has two spellings! I have honestly never heard of a Christian who knows English. I'm not even joking or trying to insult them. Maybe I need to get out more, but maybe Christians need to learn English or at least some other language. I'm sick of gibberish!


MattShizzle
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That's definitely been true

That's definitely been true of most who post on here. Maybe God has something against spellchecks?


michele
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I have gotten so much

I have gotten so much enjoyment reading this thread! I especially love all of the quotes from the founding fathers! Thanks for those!


Rook_Hawkins
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Anytime, hope you hang

Anytime, hope you hang around a lot here.