So I have to ask the atheists here...

Master Jedi Dan
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So I have to ask the atheists here...

Alright atheists, I have a question for you. What would you do if the rapture, as described in the Bible, did occur? This is more like a poll, but I don't know if you can make those here, so I'll ask the question in the forum instead. Now remember, all Christians (and only Christians) would disappear with no apparent reason.

Would you:

A. Try to account for this with something other than the rapture

B. Believe in the Bible and become a Christian knowing that you are living in the end times

C. Realize that the Bible is most likely true but refuse to believe because of something in the Bible that you don't like or something about God you don't like

Pick a letter and explain why you chose that letter. Or, if I left out some obvious choice, then you can pick that and explain why.

For my answer, I'll pick B because the rapture would be evidence enough for me to believe the Bible.


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I would pick B as

I would pick B as well.

However I would also believe that god was severely retarded.  He'll forgive me for thinking that as long as I believe in his boy.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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I'd say "A" -  maybe aliens

I'd say "A" -  maybe aliens or the FSM or SOMETHING decided to get rid of them or put them somewhere else so we could have a more rational society.

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For every christian to

For every christian to disappear in a snap? I would also choose B.

Unless theism is some kind of deadly disease that makes you "disappear".

But that makes no sense. I'd like to choose C, if only God didn't think hell was a good idea. 


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i'd say C, but then i fully

i'd say B, but then i fully admit i don't know that god doesn't exist. the problem i think i'd have i that even though i could say that it was most likely God that did it, i could never invest myself 100% in to a belief, just as a matter of principal


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No more Christians? Party,

No more Christians?

Party, obviously.


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A, but if it became obvious

A, but if it became obvious that there was no other rational solution then B.


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I'd party as well. No more

I'd party as well. No more Christians. Geez. That's one hell of a miracle.


Gauche
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that is a difficult

that is a difficult question to answer because being true wouldnt make it less morally reprehensible. So even if it were true i still wouldnt want to take part in something like that. It would also be sort of pointless to go along with it since a god would probably already know that.

 So in the unlikely event that this occurs ill be telling your god to suck the shit out of my asshole and hope he dont choke on it.

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I want to change my answer

I want to change my answer to cracking out my Bible and converting my ex to Christianity so that either 1. he'll disappear too or 2. i won't have to spend eternity with him.


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I would go for A. The

I would go for A. The natural explanation is always better then the supernatural one.

But for arguments sake, lets say it would convince me. Then I would be fucked. If the god of the bible was real, I would still not like or love him. I could never honestly love somebody if the choice was between "Worship/love me." and "If you don't, you will burn forever." God would know that, so there would be little use in faking it. I hope I would have the courage to not try to fake it anyway.


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the charming thing about

the charming thing about christianity is that its clearly a lie so the people who believe it are just gullible and somewhat cowardly. If there was evidence that it was true and people accepted that system then they would actually be assholes.

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Big Willem wrote: I would

Big Willem wrote:

I would go for A. The natural explanation is always better then the supernatural one.

But for arguments sake, lets say it would convince me. Then I would be fucked. If the god of the bible was real, I would still not like or love him. I could never honestly love somebody if the choice was between "Worship/love me." and "If you don't, you will burn forever." God would know that, so there would be little use in faking it. I hope I would have the courage to not try to fake it anyway.

Naw dude, you don't have to love god to go to heaven.  At least Southern Baptists don't think that.  All you have to have is belief that Jesus was the son of god, he died on the cross for your sins, he was resurrected 3 days later, and you accept his sacrifice for your sins.

Then you're golden.

Of course according to the Southern Baptists my atheist ass is going to heaven because I accepted that as a child and you can't fall from grace.

If that happens I'm going to start an association in heaven called, "God is a fucktard".

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Probably C, sort of. I

Probably C, sort of.

I would probably end up believing, but I'd still think God was a total sadist and completely off his gord, so I hope I'd have the courage to rebel against him. 

By the way, does Satan get killed in the rapture?  Or am I just pulling that out of my ass?  If so, what happens to all the damned?

Anyway, if he wasn't killed, I'd probably align myself with Satan.  Always seemed like a more decent guy than God to me, anyway.


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DrTerwilliker wrote: By

DrTerwilliker wrote:

By the way, does Satan get killed in the rapture?  Or am I just pulling that out of my ass?  If so, what happens to all the damned?

Anyway, if he wasn't killed, I'd probably align myself with Satan.  Always seemed like a more decent guy than God to me, anyway.

Naw, no human or angel/former angel ever really dies completely.  Satan is supposed to rot in hell with our asses forever.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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It is worth noting that the

It is worth noting that the occurance of the rapture wouldn't prove that the bible was accurate in it's entiety.  Maybe a bible got it right somewhere back there before it got fucked around with by way of translations and the failings and whims of the translators.

 

I would pick my own option, act as an emisary to unite George Carlin, David Cross, Five Finger Death Punch, Ross Noble, Richard Dawkins and Philip Pullman under the banner of Joe Pesci and start raising some hell.

 

Or have a barbeque, what the fuck ever.  The Muslims will be a bit miffed to be sure, they will want cheering up.  Maybe they will be less uptight about the meat now.  Or Ross can glue it to his face.

 

Actually, America's government would disappear and there will be some prime real estate all of a sudden available in Italy.  I'm seeing interesting possiblities...


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Damn, I gave Eloise crap

Damn, I gave Eloise crap for evading a similarly begged question, and now I'm stuck sorting through this one. I'll qualify by saying that if there had been a clear demonstration of something, like Jesus descending in a pillar of light and continuing where he supposedly left off, I would look at and challenge that evidence; I'd be especially skeptical because it's completely unprecedented and there are so many people desperate for vindication (religious fraud is precedented). If it passed whatever my tests were, I'd tentatively accept it. It doesn't follow that it validates the entire bible, though; each claim must be dealt with separately.

I think 'A' would be a necessary step in any such event, even in the course of determining the outcome your question takes for granted: that only Christians disappeared. As it is, you beg the question in assuming The Rapture as the most obvious conclusion; you make any investigation sound like denial. 'B' takes for granted that confirmation of one claim validates the whole, which it doesn't. Christians would probably say the event would be dependent on a number of other claims in the bible, but in reality it doesn't follow that those claims explain the event. 'C' is a rusty bear trap out in the middle of the sidewalk; it begs the question whether atheists would deny evidence, but takes for granted that the validity of the evidence is undisputed.

In closing, if a load of people had disappeared, I think I would start to investigate it as described in 'A,' without the assumption that you make of The Rapture being the obvious conclusion. If only Christians disappeared, we would probably be forced to address the massive power vacuum and increased tension between our other Abrahamic friends.


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Well actually, on thinking

Well actually, on thinking about this in more depth...

Well the "rapture" comes from the Book of Revelations right?

Well what faiths believe in the Book of Revelations?

Christians.  Whether they are Catholics or Protestants.

So I would pay very close attention to what faith dissapeared.  If only the "Church of Christ" people dissapeared I would believe in that.  If only the Catholics dissapeared I would become Catholic.  If the buddists dissapeared I would be very confused.  I'm not aware of them believing that all of them will be sucked up into heaven some day.

If all the Christian cults dissapeared I'd fall back on Southern Baptisim.  Especially since practically all of my extended family would be gone and they are all Southern Baptists.

So it would depend on the facts of what groups dissapeared.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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I choose D, we wouldn't

I choose D, we wouldn't notice the Rapture at all.

 

We need to define what is classified as a Christian to be included in the rapture. There are many people out there who will say they are a Christian, but either are unchristian like or just plain old lying about their religious beliefs.

 

The Rapture might have already occurred, and no one disappeared because nobody was good enough for it Smiling

 

: Freedom - The opportunity to have responsibility.

: Liberty is about protecting the right of others to disagree with you.

 


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magilum wrote: Damn, I

magilum wrote:

Damn, I gave Eloise crap for evading a similarly begged question, and now I'm stuck sorting through this one. I'll qualify by saying that if there had been a clear demonstration of something, like Jesus descending in a pillar of light and continuing where he supposedly left off, I would look at and challenge that evidence; I'd be especially skeptical because it's completely unprecedented and there are so many people desperate for vindication (religious fraud is precedented). If it passed whatever my tests were, I'd tentatively accept it. It doesn't follow that it validates the entire bible, though; each claim must be dealt with separately.

I think 'A' would be a necessary step in any such event, even in the course of determining the outcome your question takes for granted: that only Christians disappeared. As it is, you beg the question in assuming The Rapture as the most obvious conclusion; you make any investigation sound like denial. 'B' takes for granted that confirmation of one claim validates the whole, which it doesn't. Christians would probably say the event would be dependent on a number of other claims in the bible, but in reality it doesn't follow that those claims explain the event. 'C' is a rusty bear trap out in the middle of the sidewalk; it begs the question whether atheists would deny evidence, but takes for granted that the validity of the evidence is undisputed.

In closing, if a load of people had disappeared, I think I would start to investigate it as described in 'A,' without the assumption that you make of The Rapture being the obvious conclusion. If only Christians disappeared, we would probably be forced to address the massive power vacuum and increased tension between our other Abrahamic friends.

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  The point of my question was to see if the general consensus of atheists just don't believe in Christianity because of the facts, or if they hate God too.  Personally I'd probably believe very soon after I saw my family disappear along with the general Christian majority.  I don't know how else we would explain the disappearance of a large amount of people who were only Christians.

MattShizzle wrote:

I'd say "A" -  maybe aliens or the FSM or SOMETHING decided to get rid of them or put them somewhere else so we could have a more rational society.

Unfortunately, this would probably take more faith to believe than Christianity.

BizarroAzrael wrote:

It is worth noting that the occurance of the rapture wouldn't prove that the bible was accurate in it's entiety.  Maybe a bible got it right somewhere back there before it got fucked around with by way of translations and the failings and whims of the translators.

I don't really think you can use this argument here.  If there was an event like this that would put a lot of evidence for the Bible on the plate, and the Bible really was God's word, then I don't think he would have let it be corrupted - besides, today's translations aren't markedly different.  And I think we'd be able to tell which book to follow from which denominations were raptured.

Gauche wrote:

So in the unlikely event that this occurs ill be telling your god to suck the shit out of my asshole and hope he dont choke on it.

DrTerwilliker wrote:

I would probably end up believing, but I'd still think God was a total sadist and completely off his gord, so I hope I'd have the courage to rebel against him. 

By the way, does Satan get killed in the rapture?  Or am I just pulling that out of my ass?  If so, what happens to all the damned?

Anyway, if he wasn't killed, I'd probably align myself with Satan.  Always seemed like a more decent guy than God to me, anyway.

It amazes me how foolish people can be.  I mean, who the hell in their right mind would align themselves with Satan knowing that they're going to burn in hell forever after that?  It doesn't look courageous to do that, it looks plain stupid.

I think Watcher has the best plan so far.  Determine which denomination(s) disappeard, then go with that.  I tend to disagree with UltraMonk on this, we would notice, and it couldn't have happened with no one going up because the Bible says that the saints will rise and meet Jesus in the clouds.  So obviously at least a few people are going up if the Bible is correct.  I agree that a lot of people who claim to be Christians aren't, but there would be a large number of people who would disappear if the rapture applies to most people in the mainstream denominations.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


Gauche
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i consider it foolish to

i consider it foolish to worship at the feet of an insane form of tyranny in order to save yourself from it. Aside from being ignorant and pathetic it doesnt actually work in real life. Many people have tried this.

Youre asking people to envision a scenario where an invisible monster sets people on fire for arbitrary reasons and the only way that one can avoid being set on fire is to worship the monster. You say that people would be stupid not to worship the monster but you havent considered that to give yourself over to that kind of evil would be worse than the hottest fire.

 

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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Master Jedi Dan wrote: It

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

It amazes me how foolish people can be.  I mean, who the hell in their right mind would align themselves with Satan knowing that they're going to burn in hell forever after that?  It doesn't look courageous to do that, it looks plain stupid.

 

 

Hmph!  Well I never!

 Basically, what I mean is, I don't think that Satan, if the Christian god exists, would necessarily be such a bad guy.  I mean, what did he really do?  He got sick of God's tyranny and branched out on his own.  Doesn't sound so evil to me.  And you know, I agree with the cliche that Hell would be more interesting, because most of the smart, fascinating people would be there.  I'd think that Satan was villified wrongfully, and that Hell wouldn't be so bad.  So I'd gauge it as best I could, and if my presumptions seemed likely, I'd go over to Satan and try to make friends. 


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Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
It amazes me how foolish people can be. I mean, who the hell in their right mind would align themselves with Satan knowing that they're going to burn in hell forever after that? It doesn't look courageous to do that, it looks plain stupid.

According to some doctrines, a third of the angels followed Satan and they knew for a fact God existed.

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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I think all the B answers

I think all the B answers here (me too) point out something interesting.

Many non-theists reject Christianity not purely on principle, but rather because there's no evidence.  It's not rational to believe something without evidence.

If the rapture happened, there would be definitive evidence, so it would change the nature of the belief and make it rational.  Pascal's wager would then become an actual good argument. 

"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert


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Quote: i consider it

Quote:

i consider it foolish to worship at the feet of an insane form of tyranny in order to save yourself from it. Aside from being ignorant and pathetic it doesnt actually work in real life. Many people have tried this.

Youre asking people to envision a scenario where an invisible monster sets people on fire for arbitrary reasons and the only way that one can avoid being set on fire is to worship the monster. You say that people would be stupid not to worship the monster but you havent considered that to give yourself over to that kind of evil would be worse than the hottest fire.

I hate to ask this, but if you were god would you let all the people who hated you and rebelled against you get the same as those who followed you?  Somehow I think not. 

 

Quote:

Hmph!  Well I never!

 Basically, what I mean is, I don't think that Satan, if the Christian god exists, would necessarily be such a bad guy.  I mean, what did he really do?  He got sick of God's tyranny and branched out on his own.  Doesn't sound so evil to me.  And you know, I agree with the cliche that Hell would be more interesting, because most of the smart, fascinating people would be there.  I'd think that Satan was villified wrongfully, and that Hell wouldn't be so bad.  So I'd gauge it as best I could, and if my presumptions seemed likely, I'd go over to Satan and try to make friends. 

Have you ever read a bible?  Hell isn't where you can talk to others who are there, it's solitary confinement, i.e. no party with Satan and friends.  I realize you think it would be cool to take the part of the poor little oppressed satan, but if he exists he's certainly different from what you think.

Quote:

According to some doctrines, a third of the angels followed Satan and they knew for a fact God existed.

Yes, but they thought they could win.  Our scenario is different, it's knowing that you're going to lose and then be put in hell forever.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Master Jedi Dan wrote: I

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

I hate to ask this, but if you were god would you let all the people who hated you and rebelled against you get the same as those who followed you?  Somehow I think not. 

;|  Does somebody here hate god?  And which of us is rebelling against god?

I'd be surprised to hear such a thing here.  I no more hate and rebel against god as I hate and rebel against thor.

C'mon, if god plopped down here, stood in front of us and said, "I'm real fuckers.  So quit fucking arguing." I'd shut up and grab a bible.

If you were god and you did not provide a logical and provable way that people could believe in you would you punish them for not believing in you?  I wouldn't do such a thing.  So either I am more kind and decent than god or he doesn't make sense.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Watcher wrote: Well

Watcher wrote:

Well actually, on thinking about this in more depth...

Well the "rapture" comes from the Book of Revelations right?

Well what faiths believe in the Book of Revelations?

Christians.  Whether they are Catholics or Protestants.

So I would pay very close attention to what faith dissapeared.  If only the "Church of Christ" people dissapeared I would believe in that.  If only the Catholics dissapeared I would become Catholic.  If the buddists dissapeared I would be very confused.  I'm not aware of them believing that all of them will be sucked up into heaven some day.

If all the Christian cults dissapeared I'd fall back on Southern Baptisim.  Especially since practically all of my extended family would be gone and they are all Southern Baptists.

So it would depend on the facts of what groups dissapeared.

I think some Jews accept Revelations too, it is an Old Testament/Torah book.

I would probably choose A or C. I'd probably be a little bit confused if I'm honest, but you know, try and enjoy life while I still could - parties, I'd probably start taking drugs too, have wild sex orgies, go for nice long walks in the Cumbrian lakes, play guitar, probably have a bit of fun killing demons at Armageddon.


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Master Jedi Dan wrote: I

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
I hate to ask this, but if you were god would you let all the people who hated you and rebelled against you get the same as those who followed you?  Somehow I think not.

 

If you were god would you really need the ego boost of having inferior beings worship you? 


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Watcher wrote: ;|  Does

Watcher wrote:

;|  Does somebody here hate god?  And which of us is rebelling against god?

I'd be surprised to hear such a thing here.  I no more hate and rebel against god as I hate and rebel against thor.

C'mon, if god plopped down here, stood in front of us and said, "I'm real fuckers.  So quit fucking arguing." I'd shut up and grab a bible.

If you were god and you did not provide a logical and provable way that people could believe in you would you punish them for not believing in you?  I wouldn't do such a thing.  So either I am more kind and decent than god or he doesn't make sense.

You seem to be the most sensible person on this thread so far.  I don't hate god either, but it seems that we have a few people who would knowingly reject god and put themselves in hell.

Steven wrote:

If you were god would you really need the ego boost of having inferior beings worship you?

I don't think it's necessarily an ego boost that the god of the bible is looking for, it's just loyalty.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Jacob Cordingley wrote: I

Jacob Cordingley wrote:

I think some Jews accept Revelations too, it is an Old Testament/Torah book.

It is???

Why is it in the New Testament of my bible?

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

 

Have you ever read a bible?  Hell isn't where you can talk to others who are there, it's solitary confinement, i.e. no party with Satan and friends.  I realize you think it would be cool to take the part of the poor little oppressed satan, but if he exists he's certainly different from what you think.

As far as I know, there isn't a great deal in the Bible about Hell, which is why Dante and others had to think very creatively about it.  And I realize that the Bible sets Satan up as an antagonist, but if the Bible was written by God, how do you think he would portray his major enemy?  I realize that I could be wrong, but I'd try to look into it. 

And if the Christian god exists, I do think he's evil.  He created us very selfishly, knowing that most of us would end up in Hell.  He set up a world in which evidence suggests against his existence, and yet punishes people for not believing fervantly in him.  I suppose, if damnation really looked like it was all it'd been cracked up to be, I'd submit to God.  But I'd still think he was an asshole, and I'm sure, with the omniscience and all, he'd know that, so I'd probably end up in Hell anyway.  I mean, it's not like the rapture is meant to give atheists time to convert.  It's meant to punish non-believers, so why wouldn't I see if there was a worthy fight against God going on?


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Master Jedi Dan wrote: Yes,

Master Jedi Dan wrote:
Yes, but they thought they could win. Our scenario is different, it's knowing that you're going to lose and then be put in hell forever.

Oh, sure, everyone thinks that the Rapture means it's almost time for God to win, but come on. Look who's telling you that! Satan pulled it off once, you know, and God hasn't beaten him yet. Sure, Christians say Satan was defeated at Calvary, but they also acknowledge that Satan's still around, so it's a little premature to go around thinking that the game's all wrapped up just yet. And, really, how do we know Calvary really was a defeat? Satan hasn't chipped in with his side of the story. Maybe God just has a good PR team, and Christ on the cross barely put a dent in Satan's team. It's like watching the NCAA when your one and only source of information on how the tournament's going happens to be one of the teams playing, and believing them when they tell you they've won every tournament since 1970. I'm still gonna give Satan a chance, see things from the other side, get a different perspective. Maybe Satan is really a good guy, and God is the rebellious deity who whitewashed all the records to make Satan look bad! Shit, wouldn't that be embarassing when the end times come around?

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


latincanuck
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    Well you say all

    Well you say all christians, but the rapture wouldn't be all christians really and the saved ones, at least last time i checked would only number 144,000 (I can't remember the exact passage, but it's in the bible) So if ALL the Christians dissappeared....well I would say satan did it, i mean come on, not all the christian denominations are correct, seriously could you see jehova witnesses or mormons getting in? even catholics or well lets admit any of them getting into heave? Maybe the Menonites or amish, but really the rest of them? naw, I would say if it did occur only a few of them would leave, if they all did, maybe god did it to make the rest of our lives better Laughing out loud


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latincanuck wrote: Well

latincanuck wrote:
Well you say all christians, but the rapture wouldn't be all christians really and the saved ones, at least last time i checked would only number 144,000 (I can't remember the exact passage, but it's in the bible) So if ALL the Christians dissappeared....well I would say satan did it, i mean come on, not all the christian denominations are correct, seriously could you see jehova witnesses or mormons getting in? even catholics or well lets admit any of them getting into heave? Maybe the Menonites or amish, but really the rest of them? naw, I would say if it did occur only a few of them would leave, if they all did, maybe god did it to make the rest of our lives better :D

You have your Bible wrong.  The 144,000 are the Jews who, during the end times, will believe in God and witness to others.  The 144,000 is there because there will be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.  No, not all the denominations could be correct since a lot of them contradict each other, but I think that the majority would leave, with the cults and sects (like Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses) being left behind.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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Master Jedi Dan wrote: The

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

The 144,000 are the Jews who, during the end times, will believe in God and witness to others. 

The 144K has been read by different groups in all different kinds of ways over the centuries.  Some Puritan/Calvinist sects believed that only 144,000 souls were predestined, with everybody else going to hell.  The Jehovah's Witnesses currently read this as saying that only the 144,000 most favored of the saved go to heaven to live with God forever (all the other JH's get to live forever in a paradise on Earth).

I think it emphasizes the ambiguity of the passage that people can get so many different interpretatons of it. 

"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert


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Master Jedi Dan

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

 

I hate to ask this, but if you were god would you let all the people who hated you and rebelled against you get the same as those who followed you? Somehow I think not.

 

as a human being would i show the same amount of respect for a diety that is malicious as i would for one that is benevolent? somehow i think not. its going to take far better questions than that one for your god to weasel his way out of this moral conundrum.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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Quote: You seem to be the

Quote:
You seem to be the most sensible person on this thread so far.  I don't hate god either, but it seems that we have a few people who would knowingly reject god and put themselves in hell.

If we accepted the bible to be 100% truth, I would surely hate god. I could not imagine trying to justify all the atrocities commited by god in the bible.

Here is just an example of why I would hate this god.

Quote:
  And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.
 (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

For this among many other atrocities commited. I could not CHOOSE wether I hate this god character or not. I would simply hate him ireversebly.

If his existance were not proven but the evidence heavily fell in his favor (rapture), of course I would do everything to get into heaven, but wouldnt all my efforts be in vain since I would not be able to relenquish my hate?

My answer would be that surely I would believe him and try to get into heaven. However, belief in god does not justify the question of "How could you be so foolish as to hate he who obviously exist?!"

 Anyways, I have commited the unforgivable sin which is stated in the bible will not be forgiven, therefore god would damn me to hell anyways.


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    Eh it might be more

    Eh it might be more entertaining to see if it was only the Jews that were taken away and the christians left behind Sticking out tongue


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There will be no rapture

Why would there be a rapture?


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Teknison wrote: Anyways, I

Teknison wrote:

Anyways, I have commited the unforgivable sin which is stated in the bible will not be forgiven, therefore god would damn me to hell anyways.

How have you commited the unforgivable sin?  The blasphemy challenge put on here wasn't necessarily a good interpretation of the unforgivable sin, if that's what you're talking about.

latincanuck wrote:

Eh it might be more entertaining to see if it was only the Jews that were taken away and the christians left behind Sticking out tongue

Now that would be funny, seriously. 

aiia wrote:

Why would there be a rapture?

I'm saying in the very unlikely event that it actually happened, what would everyboy do?  I'm not insisting that it will, I'm just curious.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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i guess it wouldn't matter

i guess it wouldn't matter much what I thought or believed because some archangel would go obi-wan on my ass with a flaming sword and send me to hell to burn with all the other non-believers. At which point I would have some wonderfully naturalistic, materialistic evidence for the existence of a whole sack full of phenomena that I didn't know existed and I'd have to get busy revising my model of the universe while Satan removes my nuts with a pitchfork. Sucks to be me, I guess. However, since the universe will basically do the same thing to me (with slightly less style) if I don't take a naturalistic, rational position toward it now, I really don't see what choice I have.

Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown


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Master Jedi Dan wrote: I

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

I don't think it's necessarily an ego boost that the god of the bible is looking for, it's just loyalty.

You're projecting human wants and needs on God.  

If God is perfect, why would he need or want loyalty? This would imply that God want's or needs something outside himself. 

We do not learn by experience, but by our capacity for experience.


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Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

I hate to ask this, but if you were god would you let all the people who hated you and rebelled against you get the same as those who followed you? Somehow I think not.

How could you hate something that does not exist? The ones I hate are the humans who are cynically using this lie to manipulate feeble minds. All other believers who don't fall into that category are victims. I have nothing but pity for them.

 

 But to answer your question, if I were your God (let's assume he exists) I would praise rational thinking and fcritical minds over idiotic acceptance of a dogma without proof. That is, I would prefer Atheists over Christians.


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This is completely

This is completely pointless, we might as well speculate about an atheist god who shoots all non atheists at the end of a super atheist rapture.

I'm infallible. I don't know why you can't remember that.


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AngelEngine wrote: This is

AngelEngine wrote:
This is completely pointless, we might as well speculate about an atheist god who shoots all non atheists at the end of a super atheist rapture.

No, it's not completely pointless.  The event I'm talking about was predicted 2000 years ago, your speculation never was.  What I'm after is if this is enough evidence or if some of us would need more.

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.


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i think he meant it's

i think he meant it's pointless because there's no chance that it will actually happen.


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Master Jedi Dan wrote:

Master Jedi Dan wrote:

No, it's not completely pointless. The event I'm talking about was predicted 2000 years ago, your speculation never was. What I'm after is if this is enough evidence or if some of us would need more.

That's not quite true. Two facts:

1) Someone made a prediction 2000 years ago

2) Something happens now (the rapture)

Now the question we would have to ask ourselves (if that happened) is whether there's a link between those two events. The main problem of religions, and irrationnal thinking in general, is that they take two separate facts and immediately see a cause/effect relationship without proof.

The only rational stance would be A in your original post, until a proof definitely links that event with the prediction. There is always a chance that something else caused the event (mass alien abduction, whatever).

The human interpretation of two facts that SEEMS to be linked is not the proof of that link. Far from it.


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AngelEngine wrote: ...an

AngelEngine wrote:
...an atheist god ...

 Huh huh


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[qoute]How have you

Quote:
How have you commited the unforgivable sin?  The blasphemy challenge put on here wasn't necessarily a good interpretation of the unforgivable sin, if that's what you're talking about.

  • LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
  • MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."
  • MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".
  •  

    I have definitly, without a doubt, whole heartedly committed these sins(to any logical interpretation). Do not simply assume that I had even heard of the blasphemy challenge before I had committed them.

    But back the to subject to if there was a rapture.

    Quote:
    Now the question we would have to ask ourselves (if that happened) is whether there's a link between those two events. The main problem of religions, and irrationnal thinking in general, is that they take two separate facts and immediately see a cause/effect relationship without proof.

    This is a perfect example of logical reasoning however, Because the question being asked is "if the rapture happened" we have to imply that somehow we know that it is infact the rapture and the link between a prediction from the bible and the event is assumed to be accurate.

     But like I said if this supposed rapture were to happen then i'd be screwed. I would still try to attain my ticket out of eternal hellfire of course, but it would be futile. Because if we assume that the bible is in truth then we have to also assume that the unforgivable sin is real, no matter how you look at it. Not only this but if we assume that the bible is infact true, then the atrocities committed in the bible are also true. For these acts I could not sincerely forgive your god character.


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    Teknison wrote:

    Teknison wrote:

    This is a perfect example of logical reasoning however, Because the question being asked is "if the rapture happened" we have to imply that somehow we know that it is infact the rapture and the link between a prediction from the bible and the event is assumed to be accurate.

    Well if we had a definite proof that the rapture happened and it is indeed what the Christians predicted, then this whole thread is pointless isn't it? The question of "belief" disappear when you have a proof. We would know the Bible is true, period.

    So the real question would be: what would we consider a real proof that this event is indeed the rapture?


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    Quote: Well if we had a

    Quote:

    Well if we had a definite proof that the rapture happened and it is indeed what the Christians predicted, then this whole thread is pointless isn't it? The question of "belief" disappear when you have a proof. We would know the Bible is true, period.

    So the real question would be: what would we consider a real proof that this event is indeed the rapture?

    If the proof was still there, this thread still has a point because I want to see how many would try to believe in God and such and I wanted to see how many would just say "hell with that" and join Satan.

    Quote:

    So the real question would be: what would we consider a real proof that this event is indeed the rapture? 

    For me, I think it would be a large number of Christians of certain denominations rising up.  When I say denominations, I mean sects, like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Protestants, etc.  The logical choice would be to then follow that group's teachings, unless something blatantly obvious had happend, like some alien ship in the sky beaming them up.

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.