A Friend Who Is Rational In Everything Else Excpet The Existance Of A God

Velocity Eleven
Posts: 29
Joined: 2007-07-08
User is offlineOffline
A Friend Who Is Rational In Everything Else Excpet The Existance Of A God

I have a friend who is a theist and he is usually a very rational guy, however when it comes to the existance of God he is incredibly irrational... here are some things he's said

-----

"Well,God only gives us a little push to do things. God would only tell you to give money to charaity if you'tr the type of person who would anyway"

"God has proven himself to me and because you don't believe just means that he's not going to prove himself to you"

"Just because Stephen Hawkin has a very high IQ and the the majority of scientists with a high IQ are atheists, doesn't make them right"

Velocity Eleven


wavefreak
Theist
wavefreak's picture
Posts: 1825
Joined: 2007-05-10
User is offlineOffline
The last one is

The last one is correct.

The first two are a bit problematic. 


shelley
ModeratorRRS local affiliate
shelley's picture
Posts: 1859
Joined: 2006-12-26
User is offlineOffline
Velocity Eleven

Velocity Eleven wrote:

"Just because Stephen Hawkin has a very high IQ and the the majority of scientists with a high IQ are atheists, doesn't make them right"

As wavefreak said, this is true but when they use their intellect to do scientific research then what they say does have some credibility. 


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5487
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
He's right on the last one.

He's right on the last one. It's an argument from authority. I can name famous Theist scientists too.

 


stuntgibbon
Moderator
stuntgibbon's picture
Posts: 699
Joined: 2007-05-17
User is offlineOffline
In the first case, it seems

In the first case, it seems a little circular.  God will only help you do something that you'd do anyway.  Does this apply to healing as well?  Like would god only cure you if you were going to recover anyway?  If so, why would anyone need this god?   


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Sapient's picture
Posts: 7530
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
Cpt_pineapple wrote: I can

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I can name famous Theist scientists too.

Let me play too!

Francis Collins led a team of researchers to map the human genome. I think it was 42 researchers. This was a remarkable achievement in our short history. He wrote a whole book about the evidence for god. His arguments were a disgrace to science (he put the word science in his title) and completely irrational.

 

His best argument for evidence of God:

I was walking through the forest fell on my knees in front of the beauty of a waterfall, and felt God.

At about 36 minutes, watch him dodge his proof for god with a non sequitir testimony that doesn't give any evidence whatsoever. A scientist without evidence, writing about how he has scientific proof for God? The man is not only a Christian, he is an utter disgrace to science. (blah blah but the genome sapient!-- shut up)

37 minutes in he makes the absurdly retarded assertion that atheists are only responsible to themselves, yet he completely dismisses our police force that enforces laws that atheists are responsible to.

39 minutes in he recognizes that evolution ocurrs, then makes his own completely contradictory interpretation of the bible by stating that God created evolution. Someone like Captain Pineapple could get away with a deistic creator while believing in evolution, but let's face it, no Christian can. Unless you accept that the bible is flawed, and then therefore accept a ton of flawed data (like the life of Jesus) as true... and are therefore cherry picking to make your belief fit reality.

40 minutes he represents a horribly ignorant understanding of anthropology and how societies develop morals, and why. Seriously it makes you wonder how he ever accomplished anything in science, he gives arguments that lead you to believe he is a moron.

42:30 the smart guys laugh as soon as Francis Collins' name is brought up.

43:06 Rose points out in a nice way that Francis Collins is an irrational windbag.

44:33 he represents a patently ignorant view of faith. Calling it the most reasonable way to attain proof. Hello McFly are you in there?

 

His worst argument overall is a strawman of atheism at 44:40:

A Ray Comfort representation of atheist definition ignorance, when he claims that atheists must admit that with all of the knowledge in the Universe, there could be evidence for a creator.

- For those that haven't heard this argument, the flaw lies in the fact that the theist must be willing to do the obverse, and admit there might be evidence that no god exists. However when confronted, the lie, and state they KNOW god exists. (just like we claim "we KNOW" there is no good reason to believe in god) Can you say scientific legend is a moron?

At 45:41 he represents he has an 8th grade education understanding of cosmology by setting forth the notion that we came from nothing. Makes a nonsequitir false moronic assertion with no basis whatsoever that something outside of nature had to create it.

46:26 "god of the gaps" google it.

I can't watch any further, I might vomit on my laptop. I encourage anyone to take this video further. To expose the compartmentalization and ignorance of Francis Collins. I've been wanting to make a piece about him for a while.

 

Someone step up and help expose this disgusting disgrace to the world of science. This is an example of a man with a delusional disorder.

irrational people: But Sapient he's so smart.

me: Really? Then re-read above.

 

 

Todangst feel free to weigh in on his usage of CS Lewis, Mere Christianity. (a dumb book written by a smart man)

- Brian Sapient


Buy popular atheist books and support the Rational Response Squad at the same time on Amazon.


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5487
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Sapient

Sapient wrote:
Cpt_pineapple wrote:

I can name famous Theist scientists too.

Let me play too!

Francis Collins led a team of researchers to map the human genome. I think it was 42 researchers. This was a remarkable achievement in our short history. He wrote a whole book about the evidence for god. His arguments were a disgrace to science (he put the word science in his title) and completely irrational.

 

 

 

I'll play too!

 

 

Ken Miller: Profosser of Biology at Brown university author 'Finding Darwin's God' Christian and critic of the 'Intelligent Design.' movement.

 

[edit]

 I'll just mention Miller for now. The other two aren't really relevant to the point.

[/edit] 


LosingStreak06
Theist
LosingStreak06's picture
Posts: 768
Joined: 2007-05-22
User is offlineOffline
I usually put my rational

I usually put my rational hat on when I get on the internet for the sake of all you people. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to handle me otherwise.


Pathofreason
Superfan
Pathofreason's picture
Posts: 320
Joined: 2006-12-23
User is offlineOffline
"Well,God only gives us a

"Well,God only gives us a little push to do things. God would only tell you to give money to charaity if you'tr the type of person who would anyway"

 

Whenever I hear something like this said I immediately say, "Which God"?

I usually want to establish in their minds that they need to define which god because there are literally hundreds.


Then I say that if a person who believes in a different god of you makes the same exact claims you do, Is that proof that their god really exists?

They usually end up saying something stupid like "The devil is making them think it's a different god to trick them"

Co-Founder of the Atheist/Freethought website Pathofreason.com

www.pathofreason.com

Check it out


magilum
Posts: 2410
Joined: 2007-03-07
User is offlineOffline
I think the first claim is

I think the first claim is the worst. It shows how religious indoctrination raids the human mind at childhood, then sells you bits of yourself in dribs and drabs. Decide to help a person for its own sake? That was "Yahweh." Decide to wack off? That one was you. Priests are like dominatrixes, appealing to the self-hatred people feel, everything good they feel credited to some external thing, left living off the scraps of their shattered psyches.
The second one is the answer the question by withdrawing it response.
The third points to a fallacy. As for the later responses: There have been brilliant theists, but it's never been their beliefs they've been able to explain brilliantly.