the vaping "controversy"

iwbiek
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the vaping "controversy"


dicaprio vapes at the SAG awards and everyone flips shit:
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/leonardo-dicaprios-oscar-vaping-dreams-210031982.html
i especially love the tweets about vapers taking their "smelly, toxic clouds" somewhere else. i mean, does vaping actually smell? i've never vaped myself, but i have been around vapers. i've never smelled ANYTHING. i mean, it's fucking WATER VAPOR, with a bit of nicotine and aroma thrown in. it disperses almost immediately. it certainly doesn't form a "cloud." i even let one of my vaping friends blow it in my face once to prove a point, and i got NOTHING.
i grew up on a tobacco farm. i have a healthy respect for tobacco. my family grew it for at least three generations (they don't anymore). i'm an occasional user of pipes, hookahs, cigars, and cigarettes, but i have never vaped. TBH, i consider vaping pretentious. the original idea of vaping was an aid to quitting smoking, but suddenly every hipster who has never smoked in his life is sucking on a goddamn bic ballpoint with lights on it. but the idea that it is harmful to those around you or smelly is just fucking asinine. i'm even in favor of most of the smoking restrictions in our world today (though the "morality tax" on tobacco is fucking criminal--there is absolutely no reason for smoking tobacco to be as expensive as it is, apart from the government trying to price us out of it), but vaping restrictions? come on, there is no basis for that other than baldfaced prejudice.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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 YOU don't react to it so

 YOU don't react to it so what? That may simply mean your physical biology as far as your smell is less sensitive than others, and it can also mean the product itself based on content has a different effect on different people. Just like some people like cooked cabbage while I will gag at the smell  of it.

 

And just like real ciggaretts and big tobacco, they started out lying about the safety of the product. 

 

Now here is where you are going to stupidy accuse me of wanting to get rid of it. No, that will not happen. What I want to know is how well regulated is it and how well labeled are the products so that people can make a choice either way. Regardless, it is marketed as a safe alternative to smoking. For the user, is it? Or because of big money writing our laws, is it simply ok'ed because the fast pace of the market puts products out faster than a thorough test can be done?

If all products always came out safe, there would be no courts to sue companies for defective products, we've seen that in pharmicuticals and even car companies.

It may be more true that the product is safer as far as second hand, but how safe are the chemicals in it for the user. Calling it pure water vapor is bullshit. To get the user to use it it has to have a flavor that is chemically based, and it also has to mimic nicotine. This isn't like a medical inhaler one would use for COPD. And because of patent laws, in many products, the maker can hide the contents.

You don't care people use it around you? So what? I get arround certain perfumes in a department store, I can gag from the smell. 

 

"Its all in their heads"........ No it is not. Safety issues aside, even if it was safe as far as second hand AND EVEN IF it is completely safe for the user too, your words "aroma thrown in"....... Some people love the aroma of cooked cabage, I gag at the smell of it. If it didn't cause them to react, they wouldn't react. Every human is an individual so their bodies can be comepletly differnt as to sensitivity to different things.

 

 

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if you won't fucking read my

if you won't fucking read my post properly, please don't fucking comment on it. i clearly ASKED anyone who's been around vapers whether or not they have detected a smell. have you been around people while they're vaping? if so, answer the fucking question. as far as the safety of the product goes, considering the speed with which vapor disperses in the air, i have a hard time believing such a thing as "second-hand vaping" is possible, unless you're practically kissing the person.


if you're going to accuse companies of lying about the safety of e-cigarettes, i'm assuming you have studies to back that up? i strongly doubt it, since the technology has only been readily available for a decade at most. the truth is, vaping bans and restrictions are THUS FAR based on prejudice and nothing more. i invite you to prove me wrong with scientific evidence rather than your usual mentally deficient drivel. i'm not even saying that evidence isn't out there: i'm just saying UNTIL WE HAVE IT, vaping bans are not scientifically justifiable.


as per its safety for the user, that's absolutely fucking irrelevant to my post.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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 I've been around them

 I've been around them quite a bit, you can't smell a thing unless you are so close you can smell their breath. When people use them for pot, the smell of the dabs before they put them in is a lot stronger. There are just some people who want to control everything. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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oh, and for the record,

oh, and for the record, "aroma" in terms of food and other consumables can mean a flavor additive, which is the sense in which i was using it. there you go, brian, a fucking free vocabulary lesson.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Beyond Saving wrote: I've

Beyond Saving wrote:

 I've been around them quite a bit, you can't smell a thing unless you are so close you can smell their breath. When people use them for pot, the smell of the dabs before they put them in is a lot stronger. There are just some people who want to control everything. 

I agree, there are people who want to control everything. For once we are on the same page. Problem is that life is messy and not everyone can get everything they want all the time. You simply do what most humans do, project the pattern you think works for you on everyone else.

And as I said to the other stooge, outside of law and medical arguments, if it was nothing, nobody would complain. 

Argue legality till your blue in the face, argue safety untill your blue in the face, the fact remains, medically speaking, the smells that dont bother one person can and do bother other people. 

EVEN a completely safe product can physically affect another in a negative way.  

 

"It doesn't bother me" is a bullshit argument. If you are used to that input sure it wont. 

 

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iwbiek wrote:oh, and for the

iwbiek wrote:
oh, and for the record, "aroma" in terms of food and other consumables can mean a flavor additive, which is the sense in which i was using it. there you go, brian, a fucking free vocabulary lesson.

 

And I am quite sure you are privy to all the patents held by all big businesses. They cant and never lie about what they do.  I wish it worked that way. It would be wonderfull if businesss did the right thing all the time and never fucked up. 

If business were always the good guy, and never did anything wrong, then there would be no need for courts. There would be no need for voting. If life always constituded protecting wealth at all costs, there would be no need for government at all.

Now lecture me about socalism and Marx.

 

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Brian37 wrote:iwbiek

Brian37 wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
oh, and for the record, "aroma" in terms of food and other consumables can mean a flavor additive, which is the sense in which i was using it. there you go, brian, a fucking free vocabulary lesson.

 

And I am quite sure you are privy to all the patents held by all big businesses. They cant and never lie about what they do.  I wish it worked that way. It would be wonderfull if businesss did the right thing all the time and never fucked up. 

If business were always the good guy, and never did anything wrong, then there would be no need for courts. There would be no need for voting. If life always constituded protecting wealth at all costs, there would be no need for government at all.

Now lecture me about socalism and Marx.

 




why do you bother isolating a quote from my reply if you do not address anything in it?


i wouldn't lecture you on the fucking marx brothers. it would be throwing pearls before swine.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 I've been around them quite a bit, you can't smell a thing unless you are so close you can smell their breath. When people use them for pot, the smell of the dabs before they put them in is a lot stronger. There are just some people who want to control everything. 

I agree, there are people who want to control everything. For once we are on the same page. Problem is that life is messy and not everyone can get everything they want all the time. You simply do what most humans do, project the pattern you think works for you on everyone else.

Yes a lie you have repeated endlessly. Exactly how am I projecting anything on anyone? I'm not the proponent of laws forcing everyone to do the same thing.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I've tried it once, makes

I've tried it once, makes weed taste like ozone. Nasty. Smells like ozone too. Certainly doesn't create clouds or whatever.

There have been studies on them, but very little studies on smoking are in any way conclusive. A good 99% of it is based on the fallacy of correlation vs causation.

It wasn't until this week, in 2016, that it was first announced that humans have finally observed the first stage of a cell becoming cancerous. Until now it was literally impossible to say with any certainty that something could cause cancer. Now it is possible, but there will be a requirement for a great deal of research to be done to find out what exactly can cause cancer.

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Came across this

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Vaping in Colorado

 Since we legalized recreational marijuana many cities here have banned vaping in public places in the same way they did with the Colorado Clean Air Act for tobacco.

Why? Because you can't tell if someone is vaping nicotine or pot.

In Colorado pot smoking in public is not allowed. Though not enforced on 4/20 at the Denver Civic Center at 4:20PM due to 100,000 people doing it all at once.

Many cities here have no smoking or vaping with 25 feet of a retail location store front. Some have banned vaping in retail and businesses.

Vaping might smell some if it has favoring added to it, but nothing like tobacco. Smells like fruit, flowers etc.

 

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if vaping smells, i imagine

if vaping smells, i imagine the smell must dissipate very quickly. much more quickly than, say, glade fucking air freshener spray, which nobody talks about how bad THAT shit is for you.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:if vaping

iwbiek wrote:
if vaping smells, i imagine the smell must dissipate very quickly. much more quickly than, say, glade fucking air freshener spray, which nobody talks about how bad THAT shit is for you.

It does in seconds and goes only a few feet from the person. As said by someone else, you'd have to be nearly in their face for it to irritate you.

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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My VA Doc said

iwbiek wrote:
if vaping smells, i imagine the smell must dissipate very quickly. much more quickly than, say, glade fucking air freshener spray, which nobody talks about how bad THAT shit is for you.

Anything that isn't pure clean air going into the lugs ( I think he ment lungs) is a bad deal.

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obviously. i mean, common

obviously. i mean, common sense dictates that unnecessarily breathing chemical-laden vapors is probably not a healthy idea, but my original point had nothing to do with the (still little more than hypothetical) effects on the health of the user. the question is, is there empirical data that supports the hypothesis that vaping is harmful to bystanders or that it releases persistant odiferous chemicals into the air? and is this data in a sufficient amount to justify legislation against vaping? or are we to continue basing legislation on cultural bias and hysteria?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Old Seer wrote:iwbiek

Old Seer wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
if vaping smells, i imagine the smell must dissipate very quickly. much more quickly than, say, glade fucking air freshener spray, which nobody talks about how bad THAT shit is for you.

Anything that isn't pure clean air going into the lugs ( I think he ment lungs) is a bad deal.

Recent studies have shown that regular pollution is 2-3x more toxic for your lungs than smoking. None of the studies on smoking have controlled for air pollution, making them lies. There's no such thing as clean air.

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Vastet wrote:Old Seer

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
if vaping smells, i imagine the smell must dissipate very quickly. much more quickly than, say, glade fucking air freshener spray, which nobody talks about how bad THAT shit is for you.

Anything that isn't pure clean air going into the lugs ( I think he ment lungs) is a bad deal.

Recent studies have shown that regular pollution is 2-3x more toxic for your lungs than smoking. None of the studies on smoking have controlled for air pollution, making them lies. There's no such thing as clean air.

Take for example those who have died from lung cancer who never smoked that lived in Los Angles. The air there was terrible for years.

Such as Dana Reeve, wife of Christopher Reeve, she died at 44 and never smoked.

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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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The biggest evidence is how

The biggest evidence is how few people smoke now compared to 20 years ago, yet there is no corresponding decline in cancer rates. There's still an increase.

Obviously only a fool would say smoking is good for you, but the real threat to your health is car exhaust and particulates from factories.

California is really what everywhere should aspire to. They've done amazing things cleaning up pollution.

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1960s statistic

Vastet wrote:
The biggest evidence is how few people smoke now compared to 20 years ago, yet there is no corresponding decline in cancer rates. There's still an increase. Obviously only a fool would say smoking is good for you, but the real threat to your health is car exhaust and particulates from factories. California is really what everywhere should aspire to. They've done amazing things cleaning up pollution.

Living in NY City is equal to smoking 1 pack of cigs per day.

Addition- At the same time traveling on innercity freeways like Denver, LA, San Frannie, San Diego, Dallas Ft Worth etc has become akin to playing Russian roulette.

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Old Seer wrote:Vastet

Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
The biggest evidence is how few people smoke now compared to 20 years ago, yet there is no corresponding decline in cancer rates. There's still an increase. Obviously only a fool would say smoking is good for you, but the real threat to your health is car exhaust and particulates from factories. California is really what everywhere should aspire to. They've done amazing things cleaning up pollution.

Living in NY City is equal to smoking 1 pack of cigs per day.

Addition- At the same time traveling on innercity freeways like Denver, LA, San Frannie, San Diego, Dallas Ft Worth etc has become akin to playing Russian roulette.

And Atlanta, St Louis, Houston, Nashville. Your odds of being in a wreck are extremely high. I live in Denver metro again and the traffic and idiots are far worse than when I left in 1990. Poor road design, too many bad aggressive drivers. Nashville with the number of Interstates all coming together in 2 miles creates havoc. Atlanta has poor road design and aggressive drivers. I lived in Orlando for 18 years and Florida drivers are perhaps the most aggressive in the country. In Colorado, people who moved here from out of state have no idea how to drive in snow. I did sales all over the Southeast and Southwest in 2007 to 2009 and have experienced this all over.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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I found the worsts

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
The biggest evidence is how few people smoke now compared to 20 years ago, yet there is no corresponding decline in cancer rates. There's still an increase. Obviously only a fool would say smoking is good for you, but the real threat to your health is car exhaust and particulates from factories. California is really what everywhere should aspire to. They've done amazing things cleaning up pollution.

Living in NY City is equal to smoking 1 pack of cigs per day.

Addition- At the same time traveling on innercity freeways like Denver, LA, San Frannie, San Diego, Dallas Ft Worth etc has become akin to playing Russian roulette.

And Atlanta, St Louis, Houston, Nashville. Your odds of being in a wreck are extremely high. I live in Denver metro again and the traffic and idiots are far worse than when I left in 1990. Poor road design, too many bad aggressive drivers. Nashville with the number of Interstates all coming together in 2 miles creates havoc. Atlanta has poor road design and aggressive drivers. I lived in Orlando for 18 years and Florida drivers are perhaps the most aggressive in the country. In Colorado, people who moved here from out of state have no idea how to drive in snow. I did sales all over the Southeast and Southwest in 2007 to 2009 and have experienced this all over.

out west to be Denver, and then rush hr LA. We've gone from getting devouered by Lions on the plains to killing each other on the freeways. It's been a no gainer. We may be better off if we'd of stayed on the plains.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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Quebec has the craziest

Quebec has the craziest drivers on the continent.

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Vastet wrote:Quebec has the

Vastet wrote:
Quebec has the craziest drivers on the continent.

Miami ranks right up there as does Puerto Rico. Drivers in Miami go 20 to 30 over the speed limit, use traffic lights like the start light at a drag race and have no use for turn signals as that might warn other drivers what you intend. Any where in Puerto Rico you will find drivers that drive down the center of the road, back up on the freeway if they miss their turn, make California stops look like real stops and ignore lights in general.

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"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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That pretty well sounds like

That pretty well sounds like Quebec. Except for the part about using traffic lights as starter pistols. Many in Quebec must have friends and family in Puerto Rico because they too ignore traffic lights and turn signals altogether. lol. The real amazing thing is that it's all perfectly safe. At least as much as driving anywhere is. They all grow up under these conditions so they're all used to it. Millions of crazy people who drive in chaotic formation until some poor sap from outside Quebec is put into the frey and screws it all up.

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 Pretty much. That's what

 Pretty much. That's what happens in Florida. Snow birds from New England drive 45 in the fast lane for example, suicide.

Faliure to look both ways before you go on a green light to look for the 2 or 3 cars running the red too!

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.