"Connected" is crap be it religious mythology or si fi woo.

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"Connected" is crap be it religious mythology or si fi woo.

 Be it an atheist version, or part of some sects of Asian/Oriental or Indian religions.

There are people with gods or godless who have a really stupid idea that "all this" is connected. Some think of it as cognitive or even if not cognitive, somehow living. 

No sorry guys, neither new age si fi thinking or mixing it with old mythology makes the universe all "connected". It is true that all this started in one tiny dense space. But that was then. None of us have any connection now, to an electron or quark or atom on the furthest galaxies away from us. There has been since the big bang, tons of speed and separation. 

It is still a watered down way of dreaming of being infinite. This universe is not a living thing, living things in it are an outcome, not a requirement or starting point or cause. The universe is uncaring like a our atmosphere on this planet, you can have sunny days, but you can also have hurricanes and tornados. The universe is vastly hostile and violent, we only perceive it as calm because we don't think about it's long term history. 

So even without thinking of it as a god, it is still stupid to get stuck on even a si fi pretty. Yes there are pretty things in the universe. And it is even freaky to think of all the matter starting in the same spot. But no, I really wish people would stop letting their emotions allow them to think an object, a giant weather pattern, somehow is capable of giving one shit about humans. 

"All this" is a giant weather pattern and we are merely a finite blip riding in it. It is ok to have a deep appreciation for what we observe. But please do not turn it into a mythology, religion or even a Star Trek episode. Science and nature are awesome without old woo or new woo.

I think it is awesome to think about the fact that I do not contain one single atom from when I was a sperm and egg or even a baby. I think it is awesome to think about neutrinos and black holes and red giants. I do not feel in any case the need to turn it into a god or a si fi movie.

 

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I know that in

 While I am not an anthropologist by any means, it seems that from books like Ernest Becker's The Denial of Death and Escape From Evil, Zapfe Peter Wessel's The Last Messiah, and even John Gray's Straw Dogs (not saying that I agree with every single point these men make in their books) but it does seem that humankind leans in the tendency of religious/spiritual type of thinking due to the ever present knowledge of mortality and the need to make sense of the world. However, one common theme in these works is mankind's knowledge of his own insignificance and mortality. I am not saying that is the SOLE reason for religious/spiritual type of thinking as there are many reasons. But these particular works and others like it seem to sum up the fact that humanity will unlikely ever shake this. If people were to get rid of all the organized religions of today, something would likely inevitably spring right back up in its place. What would the new God be ? Likely what society tells it to be. 

For instance, it is no accident in my opinion in the area of the country I live in God seems to like guns, hates gays, and keeps women barefoot and in the kitchen. 

It is also no accident that in my girlfriends old neighborhood in San Francisco, God is "Mother Earth, Gaia, Healing Crystals, Liberalistic, Feminist Radical" 

Meaning I get the idea that a religion is a reflection of the values and beliefs of the society that creates it. 

 

These quotes by  Ernest  Becker, seems to sum up a lot of human tendencies :

 

“Man cuts out for himself a manageable world: he throws himself into action uncritically, unthinkingly. He accepts the cultural programming that turns his nose where he is supposed to look; he doesn’t bite the world off in one piece as a giant would, but in small manageable pieces, as a beaver does. He uses all kinds of techniques, which we call the “character defenses”: he learns not to expose himself, not to stand out; he learns to embed himself in other-power, both of concrete persons and of things and cultural commands; the result is that he comes to exist in the imagined infallibility of the world around him. He doesn’t have to have fears when his feet are solidly mired and his life mapped out in a ready-made maze. All he has to do is to plunge ahead in a compulsive style of drivenness in the “ways of the world.” 

 

Yet, at the same time, as the Eastern sages also knew, man is a worm and food for worms. This is the paradox: he is out of nature and hopelessly in it; he is dual, up in the stars and yet housed in a heart-pumping, breath-gasping body that once belonged to a fish and still carries the gill-marks to prove it. His body is a material fleshy casing that is alien to him in many ways—the strangest and most repugnant way being that it aches and bleeds and will decay and die. Man is literally split in two: he has an awareness of his own splendid uniqueness in that he sticks out of nature with a towering majesty, and yet he goes back into the ground a few feet in order to blindly and dumbly rot and disappear foreverhey live and they disappear with the same thoughtlessness: a few minutes of fear, a few seconds of anguish, and it is over. But to live a whole lifetime with the fate of death haunting one's dreams and even the most sun-filled days—that's something else.” 

― Ernest BeckerThe Denial of Death

 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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 According to prevailing

 According to prevailing quantum physics theory everything is connected to everything, but I assume you are much smarter than quantum physicists.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

 According to prevailing quantum physics theory everything is connected to everything, but I assume you are much smarter than quantum physicists.

If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein.

Basically with that said what that means is those pretty lights in the future will separate so far apart you wil not see them. 

It is idiotic to presume that a electron on the other side of the universe has any affect on an atom in our neighborhood. In an expanding universe, gravity is local.

Even without that, the universe is still not a living thing, it is not structured in the same way as biological life. 

Old myth or si fi woo, it still amounts to projecting human qualities on non human things.

A unifying theory in any case will not require a congintion or anything living. It will still be part of a non living weather pattern. It is anthropomorphism be it new age woo, mythology, and religion. It is still projecting human qualities on non living things.

 

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 Quote:Man is literally

 

Quote:
Man is literally split in two: he has an awareness of his own splendid uniqueness in that he sticks out of nature with a towering majesty, and yet he goes back into the ground a few feet in order to blindly and dumbly rot and disappear forever

Sounds alot like MacBeth Act 5 Scene 5.

 

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Brian37 wrote:If if any two

Brian37 wrote:

If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein.

Please provide the source of your quote or withdraw it.


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein.

Please provide the source of your quote or withdraw it.

Wow......Brian is wrong so a fat guy is right, pray to a fat guy.

 

Got it.

 

The universe will NOT make Buddhism or Christianity or Hinduism or even me a requirement to exist.

 

Now please show me how a electron on the other side of the universe can interact with me and make ABBA the one true god.

 

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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 According to prevailing quantum physics theory everything is connected to everything, but I assume you are much smarter than quantum physicists.

If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein.

Einstein probably never said any such thing, but even if he did it is irrelevant, Einstein didn't solve every problem in physics, he was wrong about a lot and the technology we have today has allowed physicists to discover things well outside his imagination.

 

Quote:

Basically with that said what that means is those pretty lights in the future will separate so far apart you wil not see them. 

It is idiotic to presume that a electron on the other side of the universe has any affect on an atom in our neighborhood. In an expanding universe, gravity is local.

Like I said, you are probably much smarter than all those quantum physicists. You say it is idiotic, so they must be idiots.

 

Quote:

Even without that, the universe is still not a living thing, it is not structured in the same way as biological life. 

Prove it. 

 

Quote:

A unifying theory in any case will not require a congintion or anything living. It will still be part of a non living weather pattern. It is anthropomorphism be it new age woo, mythology, and religion. It is still projecting human qualities on non living things.

A unifying theory about the world doesn't require the world to be spherical, yet the world is a sphere. Of course, ignorant ranting fuck on the internet is WAY smarter than all those idiotic quantum physicists doing something useful for humanity. No doubt, anything that goes against your preconceived notions is just 'woo'.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein.

Since you can not provide a source I'll consider it a bogus post.

Your comments aren't worth repeating so I've deleted them. However proof that one atom can affect another atom across the Universe is call a chain reaction. What you want to have happen is have (subject a) have direct and instant interaction with (subject b) which is across the vast distances. Nope. Doesn't work that way. It also doesn't happen instantly. Just like it takes millions of years to see light from a star which no longer exists. Those photons must travel a long time before they hit your eyes.

Take for example an asteroid from the asteroid belt around our Sun. It is bumped out of the belt and inward to the Sun. Even though that asteroid has next to zero mass of Jupiter the two objects still interact with each other as they pass near, but Jupiter wins the battle because its mass is a a couple of hundred billion more than the small rock passing by.

That asteroid also has an effect on the belt it just left because now the belt as a whole has less mass.

So that one little asteroid has set off a chain of events as it moves from one location to another at various speeds.

The same goes for atoms and electrons and photons, etc which move about and believe it or not, even though we can not measure it, still has an effect on every thing around it.


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 Lets say I am full of shit

 Lets say I am full of shit for one second, you still sound like a theist.

You, "That is bullshit so therefore Aliens did it"

Again this is the same bullshit as twisting words like theists do "law" and "Theory".

 

The universe is not a giant living thing, it is not shaped like a molecule, not even a non living molecule, so it cannot function like biological life. It is no different than a hurricane or tornado in that the motion is based on natural science. 

 

"Connected" is bullshit. Knowing that all matter came from the big bang, does not mean today that an electron on the other side of the universe has any affect on an atom on earth, much less you. Only a moron would think that.

Even in a black hole science knows that the gravity will stretch and BRREAK matter appart, just like if you stretch out a rubber band too far it snaps.

You have no relationship to the atoms on the other side of the universe. NONE, period. 

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 Quote:While special

 

Quote:
While special relativity constrains objects in the Universe from moving faster than light with respect to each other when they are in a local, dynamicalrelationship, it places no theoretical constraint on the relative motion between two objects that are globally separated and out of causal contact. It is thus possible for two objects to become separated in space by more than the distance light could have travelled, which means that, if the expansion remains constant, the two objects will never come into causal contact.

From this wiki entery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space

"WHICH MEANS THAT IF THE EXPANSION REMAINS CONSTANT, THE TWO OBJECTS WILL NEVER COME INTO CAUSUAL CONTACT"

 

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 QM never states

 QM never states "either/or" it really amounts to nothing more than a shitload of "it depends".

It is no different than knowing sound needs material to occur, and that will be consistant everywhere, but that does not mean if you are talking face to face in a room with someone, a guy on the other side of the planet can hear you.

The expansion that has happened so far in the universe has created separation between objects that will NEVER interact with each other.

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Science itself

 Physicist and Atheist Alan Lightman mentions : 

 

As a scientist, I firmly believe that atoms and molecules are real (even if mostly empty space) and exist independently of our minds. On the other hand, I have witnessed firsthand how distressed I become when I experience anger or jealousy or insult, all emotional states manufactured by my own mind. The mind is certainly its own cosmos. As Milton wrote in Paradise Lost, “[The mind] can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven.” In our constant search for meaning in this baffling and temporary existence, trapped as we are within our three pounds of neurons, it is sometimes hard to tell what is real. We often invent what isn’t there. Or ignore what is. We try to impose order, both in our minds and in our conceptions of external reality. We try to connect. We try to find truth. We dream and we hope. And underneath all of these strivings, we are haunted by the suspicion that what we see and understand of the world is only a tiny piece of the whole.

[…]Science does not reveal the meaning of our existence, but it does draw back some of the veils.

The complexities of the human mind to seek out patterns, attempt to impose order on things, and make sense of a world we know little about comes somewhat second nature to people. Driven by the awareness of our mortality, our fragile nature in the universe, etc. 

My original point was that if one were to do away with all organized religions, likely it would only be a matter of time before something would take its place, and it would be a mirror of the society that eventually conceives it. 

Granted I am no fan of any of these religions and what they perpetuate. But human animals are not rational at all . In fact, I like a line in True Detective where the main character asks the other, "What would all these people do if they found out there was no God like you think?" The other detective says : "Probably the same things they are doing right now, just would be more open about it". 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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 I agree we are not

 I agree we are not rational, that is why I am an ABBA fan, Beyond roots/rooted for the Jets, and Ibweik has a buddhism fetish. I give everyone here a hard time, not out of any sense of being the center of the universe, but just really a reminder that none of us are the center of the universe.

I seriously do this for the most part just to promote the idea that we can all bitch and not kill each other. If it also promotes science, and acts as thought promoter that avoids blind loyalty, all of our bitching at each other to me is worth it. Yes I do have an agenda, just not the ones some here might think. 

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Brian37 wrote: Lets say I

Brian37 wrote:

 Lets say I am full of shit for one second, you still sound like a theist.

Says the one who made up an Einstein quote to support his position.

 

Quote:

You, "That is bullshit so therefore Aliens did it"

Again this is the same bullshit as twisting words like theists do "law" and "Theory".

 

I didn't say anything about aliens, I pointed out that many quantum theories do suggest that everything is connected. We know that two electrons across vast distances appear to influence each other at what appears to be instantaneously. How that phenomenon happens has been the subject of great debate, experiments and hypotheses from minds much greater than mine. Including theories that suggest our base assumptions of locality (cause and effect) and/or realism (that objective measurements exist) are completely wrong. It really is mind bending, and the only thing we know for sure is that our current physical models only allow for approximations. We only know that we don't know.

 

Quote:

The universe is not a giant living thing, it is not shaped like a molecule, not even a non living molecule, so it cannot function like biological life. It is no different than a hurricane or tornado in that the motion is based on natural science. 

 

Define 'living' and 'biological'. If you define it as carbon based organisms, than of course it isn't, but that is a limitation of language and has nothing to do with science. Obviously, 'non living' things can function like biological life, our medical science routinely turns to mechanical means to replace parts of our bodies. It clearly isn't absurd to believe that eventually we will create a completely mechanical being that is indistinguishable from what we now call life except for being made from metals.

 

Quote:

"Connected" is bullshit. Knowing that all matter came from the big bang, does not mean today that an electron on the other side of the universe has any affect on an atom on earth, much less you. Only a moron would think that.

Well clearly you have solved all the mysteries of the universe. Someone should tell all the quantum theorists to stop wasting their time experimenting, Brian has spoken.

 

Quote:

You have no relationship to the atoms on the other side of the universe. NONE, period. 

If you could prove that, you would win a Nobel prize and go down in history along with Einstein. Who knew that such a great mind has been hidden in a diner all these years?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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 Just like when I quote a

 Just like when I quote a billionaire, ignore what I FUCKING LINKED!

 

We are only "connected" in the sense that the laws of physics are consistant everywhere. We are only connected in the sense that we share the same common space at the start of the universe. Now, go back and fucking read the entery again.

I didn't make that shit up. You are arguing with scientists which that artical entery is quoting.

You are still not understanding that expansion will create enough seperation that bodies far enough apart WILL NOT interact with each other. 

An electron on the other side of the universe will NEVER interact with the atoms in my body, and neither will galaxies interact with each other that have enough distance between them.

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 Quote:"WHICH MEANS THAT IF

 

Quote:
"WHICH MEANS THAT IF THE EXPANSION REMAINS CONSTANT, THE TWO OBJECTS WILL NEVER COME INTO CAUSUAL CONTACT"

Argue with them not me.

 

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 This is not brain surgery.

 This is not brain surgery. This is no different than saying while a baby in the womb is connected, when they are born the cord is cut. The fact that the mother and child are the same species does not mean they stay connected. It depeds on relationship and the distance between objects and the speed of fhem matters. 

 

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Brian37 wrote: QM never

Brian37 wrote:

 QM never states "either/or" it really amounts to nothing more than a shitload of "it depends".

I can't believe I have spent so much time reading complicated books and journals that I struggle to wrap my mind around when I could have just read your insightful summarization.

 

Quote:

It is no different than knowing sound needs material to occur, and that will be consistant everywhere, but that does not mean if you are talking face to face in a room with someone, a guy on the other side of the planet can hear you.

No one has ever claimed he can without technological assistance, but that isn't related to quantum physics at all. Nor is it evidence that everything is independent.

 

Quote:

The expansion that has happened so far in the universe has created separation between objects that will NEVER interact with each other.

And people once insisted that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth because it was so blatantly obvious that only an idiot would say otherwise. Good thing we have your brilliant mind, we can now dismiss every cyclic universe theory, fucking Einstein was such an idiot for even considering it! Too bad you weren't around to save his time.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote: Quote:"WHICH

Brian37 wrote:

 

Quote:
"WHICH MEANS THAT IF THE EXPANSION REMAINS CONSTANT, THE TWO OBJECTS WILL NEVER COME INTO CAUSUAL CONTACT"

Argue with them not me.

 

The statement is a conditional one dumb ass, IF expansion remains constant- we don't know if it will or not. There isn't a single astrophysicist who would assert that we know for sure.

As for me, I don't even have the knowledge to state which theory is most likely. All I can state is that you are nowhere near qualified to casually dismiss all the competing theories.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 QM never states "either/or" it really amounts to nothing more than a shitload of "it depends".

I can't believe I have spent so much time reading complicated books and journals that I struggle to wrap my mind around when I could have just read your insightful summarization.

 

Quote:

It is no different than knowing sound needs material to occur, and that will be consistant everywhere, but that does not mean if you are talking face to face in a room with someone, a guy on the other side of the planet can hear you.

No one has ever claimed he can without technological assistance, but that isn't related to quantum physics at all. Nor is it evidence that everything is independent.

 

Quote:

The expansion that has happened so far in the universe has created separation between objects that will NEVER interact with each other.

And people once insisted that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth because it was so blatantly obvious that only an idiot would say otherwise. Good thing we have your brilliant mind, we can now dismiss every cyclic universe theory, fucking Einstein was such an idiot for even considering it! Too bad you weren't around to save his time.

Really? That's the best you have? Go find a church and join one.

Just like a theist, we don't know everything and our perspective might change in the future, DOES NOT EQUATE TO LETTING YOUR BRAINS FALL OUT.........

The only thing adjusting does is improve on quality data, it does not errase the building blocks.

The universe will never be biologial life. No amount of QM is going to make invisible pink unicorns real. What we do not currently know does not mean anything goes. 

Once again, an electron on the other side of the universe WILL NEVER interact with my body. If you cant understand that that is your baggage, not mine.

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Brian37 wrote: We are only

Brian37 wrote:

 

We are only "connected" in the sense that the laws of physics are consistant everywhere. We are only connected in the sense that we share the same common space at the start of the universe. Now, go back and fucking read the entery again.

I didn't make that shit up. You are arguing with scientists which that artical entery is quoting.

You are still not understanding that expansion will create enough seperation that bodies far enough apart WILL NOT interact with each other. 

An electron on the other side of the universe will NEVER interact with the atoms in my body, and neither will galaxies interact with each other that have enough distance between them.

Someone ought to tell all the quantum physicists to close shop and go home! Brian has solved all the disputes using his supernatural intuition!

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

We are only "connected" in the sense that the laws of physics are consistant everywhere. We are only connected in the sense that we share the same common space at the start of the universe. Now, go back and fucking read the entery again.

I didn't make that shit up. You are arguing with scientists which that artical entery is quoting.

You are still not understanding that expansion will create enough seperation that bodies far enough apart WILL NOT interact with each other. 

An electron on the other side of the universe will NEVER interact with the atoms in my body, and neither will galaxies interact with each other that have enough distance between them.

Someone ought to tell all the quantum physicists to close shop and go home! Brian has solved all the disputes using his supernatural intuition!

 

This is your stupid logic 

"QM is realy freaky so therefor the New York Yankees play NHL hockey"

 

Again, for you to argue with me for quoting science is assinine. 

QM is not either/or. It is BOTH chaos and order. It depends on proximity and speed.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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 Knowing from the

 Knowing from the perspective of a photon it would not sense the passing of time if it were cognative. That is enough by itself without sexing it up with any sort of bullshit. Just like you will never find a sun anywhere in the universe the size of an entire galaxy, even if we manage to find a bigger sun someday. It is freaky enough to know that an electron can appear and dissapear and seem to skip orbits. 

QM does not equate to "anything goes". What we don't know currently does not equate to any sort of gap filling bullshit being valid. Star Trec is no more a documentary than the flinstones constitutes anthropology.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 QM never states "either/or" it really amounts to nothing more than a shitload of "it depends".

I can't believe I have spent so much time reading complicated books and journals that I struggle to wrap my mind around when I could have just read your insightful summarization.

 

Quote:

It is no different than knowing sound needs material to occur, and that will be consistant everywhere, but that does not mean if you are talking face to face in a room with someone, a guy on the other side of the planet can hear you.

No one has ever claimed he can without technological assistance, but that isn't related to quantum physics at all. Nor is it evidence that everything is independent.

 

Quote:

The expansion that has happened so far in the universe has created separation between objects that will NEVER interact with each other.

And people once insisted that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth because it was so blatantly obvious that only an idiot would say otherwise. Good thing we have your brilliant mind, we can now dismiss every cyclic universe theory, fucking Einstein was such an idiot for even considering it! Too bad you weren't around to save his time.

Really? That's the best you have? Go find a church and join one.

Just like a theist, we don't know everything and our perspective might change in the future, DOES NOT EQUATE TO LETTING YOUR BRAINS FALL OUT.........

The only thing adjusting does is improve on quality data, it does not errase the building blocks.

The universe will never be biologial life. No amount of QM is going to make invisible pink unicorns real. What we do not currently know does not mean anything goes. 

Once again, an electron on the other side of the universe WILL NEVER interact with my body. If you cant understand that that is your baggage, not mine.

I'm on my tablet so linking is more effort than I care to expend, especially since I am quite confident that you wouldn't comprehend the links anyway (as I said, I have difficulty comprehending the subject despite putting a fair amount of time trying to), but for anyone else interested the relevant Google terms would be 'Bell's theorem' which has many supporting experiments, 'quantum entanglement' and 'EPR paradox'. It is proven that when a particle splits and the two particles go in different directions, the measurement of particl A impacts the possible results you will get when you measure particle B. This impact occurs regardless of distance and apparently isn't bound by the speed of light. Theoretically, if one of the particles was transported to the other side of the universe somehow and measured by an alien, that impact would still occur. So perhaps some particle on the other side of the universe does has an impact on you, perhaps not, the only honest answer is that we don't know for sure yet.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 QM never states "either/or" it really amounts to nothing more than a shitload of "it depends".

I can't believe I have spent so much time reading complicated books and journals that I struggle to wrap my mind around when I could have just read your insightful summarization.

 

Quote:

It is no different than knowing sound needs material to occur, and that will be consistant everywhere, but that does not mean if you are talking face to face in a room with someone, a guy on the other side of the planet can hear you.

No one has ever claimed he can without technological assistance, but that isn't related to quantum physics at all. Nor is it evidence that everything is independent.

 

Quote:

The expansion that has happened so far in the universe has created separation between objects that will NEVER interact with each other.

And people once insisted that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth because it was so blatantly obvious that only an idiot would say otherwise. Good thing we have your brilliant mind, we can now dismiss every cyclic universe theory, fucking Einstein was such an idiot for even considering it! Too bad you weren't around to save his time.

Really? That's the best you have? Go find a church and join one.

Just like a theist, we don't know everything and our perspective might change in the future, DOES NOT EQUATE TO LETTING YOUR BRAINS FALL OUT.........

The only thing adjusting does is improve on quality data, it does not errase the building blocks.

The universe will never be biologial life. No amount of QM is going to make invisible pink unicorns real. What we do not currently know does not mean anything goes. 

Once again, an electron on the other side of the universe WILL NEVER interact with my body. If you cant understand that that is your baggage, not mine.

I'm on my tablet so linking is more effort than I care to expend, especially since I am quite confident that you wouldn't comprehend the links anyway (as I said, I have difficulty comprehending the subject despite putting a fair amount of time trying to), but for anyone else interested the relevant Google terms would be 'Bell's theorem' which has many supporting experiments, 'quantum entanglement' and 'EPR paradox'. It is proven that when a particle splits and the two particles go in different directions, the measurement of particl A impacts the possible results you will get when you measure particle B. This impact occurs regardless of distance and apparently isn't bound by the speed of light. Theoretically, if one of the particles was transported to the other side of the universe somehow and measured by an alien, that impact would still occur. So perhaps some particle on the other side of the universe does has an impact on you, perhaps not, the only honest answer is that we don't know for sure yet.

No, there are things we do know. QM does not mean "anything goes". QM is both chaos and order, but that does not mean anything goes.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote: Knowing from

Brian37 wrote:

 Knowing from the perspective of a photon it would not sense the passing of time if it were cognative. That is enough by itself without sexing it up with any sort of bullshit. Just like you will never find a sun anywhere in the universe the size of an entire galaxy, even if we manage to find a bigger sun someday. It is freaky enough to know that an electron can appear and dissapear and seem to skip orbits. 

How could you possibly have any idea what can or can't be in the universe? We don't even know what percent of the universe we can see from our tiny blue speck. I am not aware of any theoretical limitations to the size of a star that would lead to a strong conclusion that a star the size of a galaxy is impossible. Maybe Vastet would know, he pays closer attention to astrology than I do. I am quite certain that you don't have the knowledge to make such an assertion.

 

Quote:

QM does not equate to "anything goes". What we don't know currently does not equate to any sort of gap filling bullshit being valid. Star Trec is no more a documentary than the flinstones constitutes anthropology.

I never said it does. All I said is that many theories in quantum physics suggest that everything is connected and those theories have supporting evidence and they are not theories from quacks. They are serious theories with serious arguments from ridiculously brilliant people that shouldn't be casually dismissed. I'm not saying they are right, I am saying they are possibilities and that you are a fucking ignorant dumb ass for dismissing them out of hand out of nothing but your intuition.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 Knowing from the perspective of a photon it would not sense the passing of time if it were cognative. That is enough by itself without sexing it up with any sort of bullshit. Just like you will never find a sun anywhere in the universe the size of an entire galaxy, even if we manage to find a bigger sun someday. It is freaky enough to know that an electron can appear and dissapear and seem to skip orbits. 

How could you possibly have any idea what can or can't be in the universe? We don't even know what percent of the universe we can see from our tiny blue speck. I am not aware of any theoretical limitations to the size of a star that would lead to a strong conclusion that a star the size of a galaxy is impossible. Maybe Vastet would know, he pays closer attention to astrology than I do. I am quite certain that you don't have the knowledge to make such an assertion.

 

Quote:

QM does not equate to "anything goes". What we don't know currently does not equate to any sort of gap filling bullshit being valid. Star Trec is no more a documentary than the flinstones constitutes anthropology.

I never said it does. All I said is that many theories in quantum physics suggest that everything is connected and those theories have supporting evidence and they are not theories from quacks. They are serious theories with serious arguments from ridiculously brilliant people that shouldn't be casually dismissed. I'm not saying they are right, I am saying they are possibilities and that you are a fucking ignorant dumb ass for dismissing them out of hand out of nothing but your intuition.

RELITIVITY MEANS JUST THAT.

Proximity of one body to another matters. An electron on the other side of the universe will NEVER interact with me. A galaxy on the other side of the universe WILL NEVER interact with this one. 

"Connected" in the sense that science applies everywhere, YES. But again, if you talk in your room the person on the other side of the planet will not hear what you are saying.

QM only means that there are tons of factors that go into both chaos and order, it does not mean anything goes.

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Brian37 wrote: QM only

Brian37 wrote:

 

QM only means that there are tons of factors that go into both chaos and order, it does not mean anything goes.

 

And to be fair to the discussion at hand-there are quacks that use the QM word like Depak Chopra to further sell their nonsense. 

This is nothing new, back in the late 19th Century there was The New Thought Movement -that claimed your own reality could be created. IOW. If you wanted to be wealthy, you just concentrated on it, prayed on it, and BOOM. The universe just sent "waves" in your direction to do so. 

I have seen scientists in a group on FB called Rational Mathematics and other forums discuss QM and how it does not correlate to thoughts creating reality and such bunk.

 

Not that I am accusing anyone on here of stating this, but just adding this to the discussion. 

There are many that push pseudo-documentaries like "What the BLEEP do we know?" and like to try that physics angle for authenticity. 

 

HOWEVER, these types of quacks have about as much to do with Quantum Mechanics as .....welll..... Harley Davidsons. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

QM only means that there are tons of factors that go into both chaos and order, it does not mean anything goes.

 

And to be fair to the discussion at hand-there are quacks that use the QM word like Depak Chopra to further sell their nonsense. 

This is nothing new, back in the late 19th Century there was The New Thought Movement -that claimed your own reality could be created. IOW. If you wanted to be wealthy, you just concentrated on it, prayed on it, and BOOM. The universe just sent "waves" in your direction to do so. 

I have seen scientists in a group on FB called Rational Mathematics and other forums discuss QM.

There are many that push pseudo-documentaries like "What the BLEEP do we know?" and like to try that physics angle for authenticity. 

 

HOWEVER, these types of quacks have about as much to do with Quantum Mechanics as .....welll..... Harley Davidsons. 

That is what I am talking about and that also applies to new age si fi woo as well. I hate Defuck as much as any TV preacher.

The attempts to retrofit science for any type of superstition, conspiracy, and mythology are all over the world. 

Science does not prop up anything but science. Science is not something you co opt, it is something you do. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 Knowing from the perspective of a photon it would not sense the passing of time if it were cognative. That is enough by itself without sexing it up with any sort of bullshit. Just like you will never find a sun anywhere in the universe the size of an entire galaxy, even if we manage to find a bigger sun someday. It is freaky enough to know that an electron can appear and dissapear and seem to skip orbits. 

How could you possibly have any idea what can or can't be in the universe? We don't even know what percent of the universe we can see from our tiny blue speck. I am not aware of any theoretical limitations to the size of a star that would lead to a strong conclusion that a star the size of a galaxy is impossible. Maybe Vastet would know, he pays closer attention to astrology than I do. I am quite certain that you don't have the knowledge to make such an assertion.

 

Quote:

QM does not equate to "anything goes". What we don't know currently does not equate to any sort of gap filling bullshit being valid. Star Trec is no more a documentary than the flinstones constitutes anthropology.

I never said it does. All I said is that many theories in quantum physics suggest that everything is connected and those theories have supporting evidence and they are not theories from quacks. They are serious theories with serious arguments from ridiculously brilliant people that shouldn't be casually dismissed. I'm not saying they are right, I am saying they are possibilities and that you are a fucking ignorant dumb ass for dismissing them out of hand out of nothing but your intuition.

RELITIVITY MEANS JUST THAT.

Proximity of one body to another matters. An electron on the other side of the universe will NEVER interact with me. A galaxy on the other side of the universe WILL NEVER interact with this one. 

At the quantum level proximity doesn't matter, that is pretty much undisputed. The dispute is over the how and what it means. Particles on the other side of the universe very possibly could be impacting you, albeit imperceptibly. 

 

Quote:

"Connected" in the sense that science applies everywhere, YES. But again, if you talk in your room the person on the other side of the planet will not hear what you are saying.

We aren't talking about sound dumb ass, quantum physics studies the quantum level, and at that level everything in the universe may very well be connected.

 

Quote:

QM only means that there are tons of factors that go into both chaos and order, it does not mean anything goes.

Really, is that what quantum mechanics is.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 Knowing from the perspective of a photon it would not sense the passing of time if it were cognative. That is enough by itself without sexing it up with any sort of bullshit. Just like you will never find a sun anywhere in the universe the size of an entire galaxy, even if we manage to find a bigger sun someday. It is freaky enough to know that an electron can appear and dissapear and seem to skip orbits. 

How could you possibly have any idea what can or can't be in the universe? We don't even know what percent of the universe we can see from our tiny blue speck. I am not aware of any theoretical limitations to the size of a star that would lead to a strong conclusion that a star the size of a galaxy is impossible. Maybe Vastet would know, he pays closer attention to astrology than I do. I am quite certain that you don't have the knowledge to make such an assertion.

 

Quote:

QM does not equate to "anything goes". What we don't know currently does not equate to any sort of gap filling bullshit being valid. Star Trec is no more a documentary than the flinstones constitutes anthropology.

I never said it does. All I said is that many theories in quantum physics suggest that everything is connected and those theories have supporting evidence and they are not theories from quacks. They are serious theories with serious arguments from ridiculously brilliant people that shouldn't be casually dismissed. I'm not saying they are right, I am saying they are possibilities and that you are a fucking ignorant dumb ass for dismissing them out of hand out of nothing but your intuition.

RELITIVITY MEANS JUST THAT.

Proximity of one body to another matters. An electron on the other side of the universe will NEVER interact with me. A galaxy on the other side of the universe WILL NEVER interact with this one. 

At the quantum level proximity doesn't matter, that is pretty much undisputed. The dispute is over the how and what it means. Particles on the other side of the universe very possibly could be impacting you, albeit imperceptibly. 

 

Quote:

"Connected" in the sense that science applies everywhere, YES. But again, if you talk in your room the person on the other side of the planet will not hear what you are saying.

We aren't talking about sound dumb ass, quantum physics studies the quantum level, and at that level everything in the universe may very well be connected.

 

Quote:

QM only means that there are tons of factors that go into both chaos and order, it does not mean anything goes.

Really, is that what quantum mechanics is.

Once again, you keep equating completely separate issues as being the same thing, they are NOT.

"Relitivity" is not inconsistent with QM. Old science gets built upon, it is not thrown out. QM does not negate physics. Again, anything new it uncovers will only expand on our understanding.

The further away you get from a body the weaker gravity is, get far enough away from that body it will have no affect on you. It will NEVER interact with you.

Now I think you are getting pendantic with me. QM upon our heat death of this universe can allow for another quantum twitch leading to another big bang. 

"Never" in terms of this universe still applies. 

QM will never allow for a giant pixy beyond our background radiation. It will not mean I can magicaly poof myself into a frog. It does not mean because you cannot see me right now I am 50 feet tall. 

PHYSICS still applies and once you get far enough away from the gravity of an object you will not be affected by that gravity. QM does not negate physics.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

harleysportster wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

QM only means that there are tons of factors that go into both chaos and order, it does not mean anything goes.

 

And to be fair to the discussion at hand-there are quacks that use the QM word like Depak Chopra to further sell their nonsense. 

This is nothing new, back in the late 19th Century there was The New Thought Movement -that claimed your own reality could be created. IOW. If you wanted to be wealthy, you just concentrated on it, prayed on it, and BOOM. The universe just sent "waves" in your direction to do so. 

I have seen scientists in a group on FB called Rational Mathematics and other forums discuss QM.

There are many that push pseudo-documentaries like "What the BLEEP do we know?" and like to try that physics angle for authenticity. 

 

HOWEVER, these types of quacks have about as much to do with Quantum Mechanics as .....welll..... Harley Davidsons. 

That is what I am talking about and that also applies to new age si fi woo as well. I hate Defuck as much as any TV preacher.

The attempts to retrofit science for any type of superstition, conspiracy, and mythology are all over the world. 

Science does not prop up anything but science. Science is not something you co opt, it is something you do. 

 

Yet you do the same thing as Chopra, he looks at quantum physics and makes wild unsupportable claims about connectedness, you sit there and make the clkaim that particles are not connected in any way and make the unsupportable claim that science supports you. It doesn't. Everything isn't connected the way Chopra claims, but it is all connected contrary to the position you took in your op and since.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

harleysportster wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

QM only means that there are tons of factors that go into both chaos and order, it does not mean anything goes.

 

And to be fair to the discussion at hand-there are quacks that use the QM word like Depak Chopra to further sell their nonsense. 

This is nothing new, back in the late 19th Century there was The New Thought Movement -that claimed your own reality could be created. IOW. If you wanted to be wealthy, you just concentrated on it, prayed on it, and BOOM. The universe just sent "waves" in your direction to do so. 

I have seen scientists in a group on FB called Rational Mathematics and other forums discuss QM.

There are many that push pseudo-documentaries like "What the BLEEP do we know?" and like to try that physics angle for authenticity. 

 

HOWEVER, these types of quacks have about as much to do with Quantum Mechanics as .....welll..... Harley Davidsons. 

That is what I am talking about and that also applies to new age si fi woo as well. I hate Defuck as much as any TV preacher.

The attempts to retrofit science for any type of superstition, conspiracy, and mythology are all over the world. 

Science does not prop up anything but science. Science is not something you co opt, it is something you do. 

 

Yet you do the same thing as Chopra, he looks at quantum physics and makes wild unsupportable claims about connectedness, you sit there and make the clkaim that particles are not connected in any way and make the unsupportable claim that science supports you. It doesn't. Everything isn't connected the way Chopra claims, but it is all connected contrary to the position you took in your op and since.

You got me, gravity doesn't exist and neither does physics because QM means anything goes. Ok, my dick is 50,000 feet long. BECAUSE QM that's why.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Beyond Saving wrote: Yet

Beyond Saving wrote:

 

Yet you do the same thing as Chopra, he looks at quantum physics and makes wild unsupportable claims about connectedness, you sit there and make the clkaim that particles are not connected in any way and make the unsupportable claim that science supports you. It doesn't. Everything isn't connected the way Chopra claims, but it is all connected contrary to the position you took in your op and since.

 

I would agree that too often times people will use "connected" to imply their is some universal mind or such  

But, indeed, connected is a very real term without the religious connotations. 

Even if one want to look at it from a strict determinist style viewpoint where everything falls in accordance with the laws of physics and arguments  against free-will, that would imply to my limited understanding of the topics that indeed we are connected. Every decision I make is based on previous sets of circumstances, interactions and experiences, which in turn were motivated by even MORE circumstances, etc. Leaving out QM, no one lives in a vaccuum. 

 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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 Your reading comprehension

 Your reading comprehension skills are extremely sub par, you should take some courses online. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: Your

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Your reading comprehension skills are extremely sub par, you should take some courses online. 

No, you want to deny that separation exists and you fucking keep taking "connected" out of context. QM does not negate gravity or physics. PERIOD. 

There are objects in the universe that are NOT connected and WILL NOT interact with each other. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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As someone that actually

As someone that actually took a calculus based (i.e. any math they can pull out of their pants) QM class in college (and got a decent grade somehow) as well as a modern physics class involving special relativity and nuclear physics (didn't quite pass that one ), I will now respond to Brian while commenting with all the expertise I have accumulated on the possible reconciliation of quantum entanglement and the unified theory of gravity as a geometric distortion of space/time. 

Here's my response..................

.....

....

....

....

....

....

....

....

....

.....

....

I don't really get it. I don't even remember most of the math I did. I can explain the main concepts in special relativity and quantum wave collapse a little, but I don't think it's anything beyond what someone could look up on wikipedia. I'm just not qualified to respond to this OP.

FIN.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Your reading comprehension skills are extremely sub par, you should take some courses online. 

No, you want to deny that separation exists and you fucking keep taking "connected" out of context. QM does not negate gravity or physics. PERIOD. 

There are objects in the universe that are NOT connected and WILL NOT interact with each other. 

 

I have not taken any stance on whether or not separation exists, I have merely pointed out that quantum physicists have theorized that everything is connected at a quantum level. They may be wrong, I am not anywhere near qualified to debate the point with them. My only point all along is that your summary dismissal of those theories is unwarranted.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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butterbattle wrote:As

butterbattle wrote:

As someone that actually took a calculus based (i.e. any math they can pull out of their pants) QM class in college (and got a decent grade somehow) as well as a modern physics class involving special relativity and nuclear physics (didn't quite pass that one ), I will now respond to Brian while commenting with all the expertise I have accumulated on the possible reconciliation of quantum entanglement and the unified theory of gravity as a geometric distortion of space/time. 

Here's my response..................

.....

....

....

....

....

....

....

....

....

.....

....

I don't really get it. I don't even remember most of the math I did. I can explain the main concepts in special relativity and quantum wave collapse a little, but I don't think it's anything beyond what someone could look up on wikipedia. I'm just not qualified to respond to this OP.

FIN.

 

That sums up my knowledge of QM quite well to be honest.  I also took Economics in high school and have not a clue what it was about. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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As an aside, analyzing the

As an aside, analyzing the intersection of general relativity and quantum physics is a very hot topic, but Einstein's quotes are actually kind of irrelevant. The man pretty much rejected quantum mechanics outright, so any comment from him is probably kaput.

Edit: As another aside, I really like Brian's umbilical cord analogy. Makes the whole topic of quantum entanglement quite engaging and accessible. Many simpletons could read it and walk away feeling like they understand the topic.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:As

butterbattle wrote:

As someone that actually took a calculus based (i.e. any math they can pull out of their pants) QM class in college (and got a decent grade somehow) as well as a modern physics class involving special relativity and nuclear physics (didn't quite pass that one ), I will now respond to Brian while commenting with all the expertise I have accumulated on the possible reconciliation of quantum entanglement and the unified theory of gravity as a geometric distortion of space/time. 

Here's my response..................

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I don't really get it. I don't even remember most of the math I did. I can explain the main concepts in special relativity and quantum wave collapse a little, but I don't think it's anything beyond what someone could look up on wikipedia. I'm just not qualified to respond to this OP.

FIN.

 

Amen.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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 http://www.preposterousuniv

 http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/eternitytohere/quantum/

Quote:
But now we know better: Classical mechanics isn't correct.

I wouldn't put it like that. I'd say it wasn't enough. Modern knowlege is still based on those building blocks.

Quote:
None of which stops classical physics from being more than good enough to play basketball or put satellites in orbit[/quote

 

Quote:
None of which should be taken to mean that all Hell has broken loose, or that the mysteries of quantum mechanics offer an excuse to believe whatever you want. In particular, quantum mechanics doesn't mean you can change reality just by] thinking about it, or that modern physics has rediscovered ancient Buddhist wisdom.[ii] There are still rules, and we know how the rules operate in the regimes of interest to our everyday lives. But we'd like to understand how the rules operate in every conceivable situation.

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Brian37 wrote:Once again, an

Brian37 wrote:
Once again, an electron on the other side of the universe WILL NEVER interact with my body.



blatant naked assertion. more specifically, this is an informal fallacy known as argument from incredulity (the same fallacy you use when talking about reincarnation, btw). for someone who tries to sell science as the only valid epistemology, you obviously have zero familiarity with its most basic principles.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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 Read your own link,

 Read your own link, particularly the section about Miss Kitty and Mr. Dog and the shared wave function through the EPR paradox. It essentially says the same thing I have been saying, the whole universe is connected and in qm distance is meaningless, that is why observing Mr. Dog on Mars has an effect on where Miss Kitty is at the house on Earth. So yes, particles being measured on the other side of the universe have an impact on you. Clearly not one you would ever notice, which is why classical physics works because on a macro level, am is so miniscule as to be unmeasurable in any meaningful way. That is why we never noticed until we got the technology to analyze things at the quantum level where such activity makes a noticeable effect. However, your inability to notice or even measure the effect doesn't preclude its existence. If the current main theories of quantum physics are on the right track, everything IS connected at a quantum level.

I will await your apology and retraction.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:I will

Beyond Saving wrote:

I will await your apology and retraction.




back of the line!


or didn't you get the memo? brian don't 'pologize for nothin' cuz brian ain't wrong 'bout shee-yit. even if he is wrong, he's wrong for the right reasons, goddammit!

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote: Lets say I

Brian37 wrote:

 Lets say I am full of shit for one second, you still sound like a theist.

You, "That is bullshit so therefore Aliens did it"

Again this is the same bullshit as twisting words like theists do "law" and "Theory".

 The universe is not a giant living thing, it is not shaped like a molecule, not even a non living molecule, so it cannot function like biological life. It is no different than a hurricane or tornado in that the motion is based on natural science. 

 "Connected" is bullshit. Knowing that all matter came from the big bang, does not mean today that an electron on the other side of the universe has any affect on an atom on earth, much less you. Only a moron would think that.

Even in a black hole science knows that the gravity will stretch and BRREAK matter appart, just like if you stretch out a rubber band too far it snaps.

You have no relationship to the atoms on the other side of the universe. NONE, period. 

I retract my comments. This subject has already been attended to by others.


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

 

Quote:
While special relativity constrains objects in the Universe from moving faster than light with respect to each other when they are in a local, dynamicalrelationship, it places no theoretical constraint on the relative motion between two objects that are globally separated and out of causal contact. It is thus possible for two objects to become separated in space by more than the distance light could have travelled, which means that, if the expansion remains constant, the two objects will never come into causal contact.

From this wiki entery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space

"WHICH MEANS THAT IF THE EXPANSION REMAINS CONSTANT, THE TWO OBJECTS WILL NEVER COME INTO CAUSUAL CONTACT"

 

I retract my comments as the subject has been covered

 


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iwbiek wrote:Beyond Saving

iwbiek wrote:
Beyond Saving wrote:

I will await your apology and retraction.


back of the line!
or didn't you get the memo? brian don't 'pologize for nothin' cuz brian ain't wrong 'bout shee-yit. even if he is wrong, he's wrong for the right reasons, goddammit!

Still not wrong on this dipshit. 

You are just like fucking GOP, and take things out of context right on fucking par with GOP.

 

QM does not negate physics. And it does not negate the work of Einstein. It is simply an improved tool that is simply a more powerful microscope. 

You guys can whack off or string theory and wave functions, it still does not fucking make this "connected" in the stupid woo mytholotical or Star Trek sense. 

The electron on the other side of the universe still has no fucking affect on you. Not in a mytholotical sense or a Star Trek sense. Now you are fucking pulling the same gap filling shit Christians and Muslims pull. "I don't know" does not mean letting your brains fall out. 

You are sill doing the same fucking thing. The universe does not give one shit about us. That is the point of this post. You stupidly fish for a different type of bullshit gap answer.

QM does not justify any god claim. It does not prop up any fucking religion. It doesn't prop up fat guys. It does not prop up si fi bullshit either. And it DOES NOT negate phsyics. 

 

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Comments on Relativity

Special Relativity applies to inertial reference frames, ie, objects moving at constant speed, and describes how measurements made by observers moving at different velociities with respect to each other will be affected by that relative velocity, especially as it approaches the speed of light. One observer will see an object moving at hign velocity relative to himself apparently becoming shorter along the axis of motion as it approaches the speed of light, and also time will appear to be passing more slowly for the moving object. This will also apply to an observer on the other object who will see the first object as becoming fore-shortened and time passing more slowly for it - for each observer, the effects only apply to the other object, ie the one that is moving relative to themselves.

Another effect is that as an object's velocity approaches the speed of light, it requires ever more force to further accelerate it, ie its apparent mass increases, approaching infinite value as its velocity in the observer's frame of reference approaches the speed of light. This is regularly observed in particle accelerators: it requires ever increasing energy to further accelerate the particles as they approach the speed of light. With regard to the expansion of the universe, it appears to be accelerating, due apparently to the effects of 'dark energy'. While Relativity seems to say that two objects cannot be accelerated away from each othe beyond the speed of light, this does not stop two separate points in an expanding universe from moving apart from each other at greater than the speed of light, due to the expansion of space, at which point they can no longer interact with each other, since physical forces cannot be transmitted at greater than light speed.Actually we should not try to use Special Relativity too far beyond the special case of 'inertial frames of reference' it was intended to address. Instead we should be applying General Relativity, which gets much more complex.

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Brian37 wrote: iwbiek

Brian37 wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
Beyond Saving wrote:

I will await your apology and retraction.


back of the line!
or didn't you get the memo? brian don't 'pologize for nothin' cuz brian ain't wrong 'bout shee-yit. even if he is wrong, he's wrong for the right reasons, goddammit!

Still not wrong on this dipshit. 

You are just like fucking GOP, and take things out of context right on fucking par with GOP.

Says the guy who fabricated an Einstein quote and still has not even acknowledged it.

 

Quote:

QM does not negate physics. And it does not negate the work of Einstein. It is simply an improved tool that is simply a more powerful microscope. 

I'm not the one who said it did, that was from your own damn link dumb ass. Although, your link is right, classical mechanics is not correct and there are mountains of evidence proving it. Claiming it is right is the equivalent of claiming the world is flat. Classical is still a close enough approximation for our day to day activities and calculations, but our base assumptions have been proven completely wrong. Then again, for many of our daily activities, assuming the world was flat wouldn't make a difference, when you throw a baseball or walk across the road or drive to work, the curvature of the Earth doesn't have a noticeable effect on you. 

 

Quote:

You guys can whack off or string theory and wave functions, it still does not fucking make this "connected" in the stupid woo mytholotical or Star Trek sense. 

I never claimed there was anything woo about it. It isn't any more woo than a C130 managing to fly through the air. You are the one sitting there claiming it is woo because you are ignorant and don't understand it.

 

Quote:

The electron on the other side of the universe still has no fucking affect on you. Not in a mytholotical sense or a Star Trek sense. Now you are fucking pulling the same gap filling shit Christians and Muslims pull. "I don't know" does not mean letting your brains fall out. 

In qm distance doesn't matter. Read your own link.

 

Quote:

You are sill doing the same fucking thing. The universe does not give one shit about us. That is the point of this post. You stupidly fish for a different type of bullshit gap answer.

It isn't my claim, I have done zero work on quantum theory and have never conducted a single experiment. Go argue with all the quantum physicists if you want, I am just reporting what they have discovered. Specifically, that a particle on the other side of the universe could have an effect on you at a quantum level. In qm, distance as understood by us is completely irrelevant. You call that woo, but it is science. No one here has plugged in any god or religion.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X