This is good, but our evolutionary empathy is in us, not human invented religions.

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This is good, but our evolutionary empathy is in us, not human invented religions.

Ok,

This certainly is much better behavior by Muslims, but it is much better behavior for any label. There is also lots of violence Israels justify too. There are also Jews and Muslims like this above that want peace.

My challenge to humans worldwide is to consider that the wonderful displays of compassion like this are a result of OUR EVOLUTIONARY EMPATHY and not the human invented clubs humans call religions.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewi...s/1.643521

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or it can be both.

or it can be both. or neither. i think the easiest way to determine their motivation is to ask them.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:or it can be

iwbiek wrote:
or it can be both. or neither. i think the easiest way to determine their motivation is to ask them.

No, it is in our evolution. Cockroaches evolved without religion. Religion is an outcome not a requirement. It is a result of our species flawed perceptions. Your failure to understand what Dawkins or Stenger for that matter is your baggage. 

There were no religions 200,000 years ago. There were no religions 4 billion years ago. There will be no religions when our species goes extinct. There will be no religions when our plant dies and our sun dies.

Our ability to make them up only means we have vivid imaginations. Our species ability do be cruel or compassionate has always been in us. Our morals are in our evolution, not the gap filling clubs humans invent. Yes, certainly that is what humans like to believe the source is, but that is not the source in reality. We protject our disires in the placebos we invent. Our behavior is in us.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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well, that's it, folks.

well, that's it, folks. pack it in. we can all fuckin' go home. every mystery has been completely solved.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:well, that's

iwbiek wrote:
well, that's it, folks. pack it in. we can all fuckin' go home. every mystery has been completely solved.

 

Who the fuck is claiming that idiot? 

Stephen  Hawking  must be full of shit then when he said "God is not required".

Not knowing what is behind microwave background radiation, or something or nothing prior to the big bang, does not mean we cant scrap old claims. 

You accept that Thor does not make lightneng just like me. Now please tell me how Allah or Yahweh or Jesus are any better gap fillers than Thor? I think the better explination as to why god claims exist is because humans like them because they reflect human fear and human ego.

 

You "lets incert anything we want, because we should not hurt people's feelings" That is your shitty logic. Seriously you might as well be the Catholic Church when Galileo faced them with the truth about the sun centered solar system.

If a hurricane does not need a god to cause it, why would the universe need one either?

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                   Evo-luuuuuu-shunnnn !


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

   

                   Evo-luuuuuu-shunnnn !

Yep, not sexy to believers, but it is fact. It frightens them sure, but it shouldn't anymore than knowing trees and pets die as well. 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

   

                   Evo-luuuuuu-shunnnn !

Yep, not sexy to believers, but it is fact. It frightens them sure...

 

 

I wasn't mocking Christians, I was mocking you.   Besides, there are Christians believers who accept evolution.   It's referred to as theistic evolution.


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

   

                   Evo-luuuuuu-shunnnn !

Yep, not sexy to believers, but it is fact. It frightens them sure...

 

 

I wasn't mocking Christians, I was mocking you.   Besides, there are Christians believers who accept evolution.   It's referred to as theistic evolution.

So, you aren't telling me anything that has not been argued before.

I am sure you can find Muslims and Jews and Hindus who accept evolution too. But that does not make religion a requirment to evolution. Cockroaches evolved without those religions as well. And those religions will also go extinct when humans go extinct.

Evolution is a science, not a debate for religion to use to prop up myths. It is no different than saying that a Muslim and Jew or Hindu can drive cars, that does not make the science behind making the car or the car itself a religion. Otherwise if cars required religion the cars would pray themselves without our help. 

Religion is an outcome of our species flawed perceptions, but it is not DNA itself which is what all life evolved from. We know humans have flawed perceptions because of science. It is no different when you see a dog bark at it's own immage in a glass door. It is a missfire, a missunderstanding of reality.

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:And those

Brian37 wrote:
And those religions will also go extinct when humans go extinct.

Will the theory of evolution go extinct when humans go extinct, or will it survive? 

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


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zarathustra wrote:Brian37

zarathustra wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
And those religions will also go extinct when humans go extinct.

Will the theory of evolution go extinct when humans go extinct, or will it survive? 

Thats like asking, did humans exist before you were born? 

Our current awareness will die when we go extinct, but the science will still exist just like it did at the big bang. 

Really, this stupid tactic really is nothing more than the same self centered narcisssim theists buy into.

The universe did fine before humans and it will continue after we die. There will be no record of us or our current discoveries. 

We are finite, period. Yes that includes scientists too.

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i still don't understand the

i still don't understand the relation between whether or not religion is required for evolution and whether or not religion is true. i mean, evolution is not required for the universe to exist. does that make evolution a load of bullshit?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:Ok, This

Brian37 wrote:
Ok, This certainly is much better behavior by Muslims, but it is much better behavior for any label. There is also lots of violence Israels justify too. There are also Jews and Muslims like this above that want peace. My challenge to humans worldwide is to consider that the wonderful displays of compassion like this are a result of OUR EVOLUTIONARY EMPATHY and not the human invented clubs humans call religions. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewi...s/1.643521

Empathy isn't a result of evolution any more or less than religion is.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Ok, This certainly is much better behavior by Muslims, but it is much better behavior for any label. There is also lots of violence Israels justify too. There are also Jews and Muslims like this above that want peace. My challenge to humans worldwide is to consider that the wonderful displays of compassion like this are a result of OUR EVOLUTIONARY EMPATHY and not the human invented clubs humans call religions. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewi...s/1.643521

Empathy isn't a result of evolution any more or less than religion is.

No emathy is a result of evoltion, so is cruelty too. Religion is simply making up comic book reasons for either. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in us.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Ok, This certainly is much better behavior by Muslims, but it is much better behavior for any label. There is also lots of violence Israels justify too. There are also Jews and Muslims like this above that want peace. My challenge to humans worldwide is to consider that the wonderful displays of compassion like this are a result of OUR EVOLUTIONARY EMPATHY and not the human invented clubs humans call religions. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewi...s/1.643521

Empathy isn't a result of evolution any more or less than religion is.

No emathy is a result of evoltion, so is cruelty too. Religion is simply making up comic book reasons for either. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in us.

And so is our ability and desire to create religions in exactly the same way.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Ok, This certainly is much better behavior by Muslims, but it is much better behavior for any label. There is also lots of violence Israels justify too. There are also Jews and Muslims like this above that want peace. My challenge to humans worldwide is to consider that the wonderful displays of compassion like this are a result of OUR EVOLUTIONARY EMPATHY and not the human invented clubs humans call religions. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewi...s/1.643521

Empathy isn't a result of evolution any more or less than religion is.

No emathy is a result of evoltion, so is cruelty too. Religion is simply making up comic book reasons for either. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in us.

And so is our ability and desire to create religions in exactly the same way.

No, our ability to create religions is a missfire. It is a missunderstanding of reality. Other species of mamals and primates commit cruel and empathetic acts. Our flaw is worse because we should no better but we still cling to bad claims dispite the data showing the flaw. It was understandable when humans didn't know any better but we do now.

Our ability to make up crap is true, yes, but that doesn't make that crap true or nessary. Otherwise Thor really would make ligtening by proxy of utterence. All you are doing is justifying mental placebos, that is hardly a challenge to get people to think without a hand up their backs.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Ok, This certainly is much better behavior by Muslims, but it is much better behavior for any label. There is also lots of violence Israels justify too. There are also Jews and Muslims like this above that want peace. My challenge to humans worldwide is to consider that the wonderful displays of compassion like this are a result of OUR EVOLUTIONARY EMPATHY and not the human invented clubs humans call religions. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewi...s/1.643521

Empathy isn't a result of evolution any more or less than religion is.

No emathy is a result of evoltion, so is cruelty too. Religion is simply making up comic book reasons for either. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in us.

And so is our ability and desire to create religions in exactly the same way.

No, our ability to create religions is a missfire. It is a missunderstanding of reality. Other species of mamals and primates commit cruel and empathetic acts. Our flaw is worse because we should no better but we still cling to bad claims dispite the data showing the flaw. It was understandable when humans didn't know any better but we do now.

Our ability to make up crap is true, yes, but that doesn't make that crap true or nessary. Otherwise Thor really would make ligtening by proxy of utterence. All you are doing is justifying mental placebos, that is hardly a challenge to get people to think without a hand up their backs.

What evidence do you have that knowing the truth is better for our expansion as a species than pleasant lies? The evidence suggests that religious people breed more than atheists and thus religion is a benefit to EVOLUTION!® If men paid attention to their brutal realty thousands of years ago, they probably would have decided it was immoral to have kids.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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You guys must be bored to

You guys must be bored to keep reading brians OP's.

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Boredom is a result of

Boredom is a result of evolution. 


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Vastet wrote:You guys must

Vastet wrote:
You guys must be bored to keep reading brians OP's.

 

     I know, it's pathetic isn't it ? LOL.


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zarathustra wrote:Boredom is

zarathustra wrote:

Boredom is a result of evolution. 

 

                           +1


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 Everything is natural, not

 Everything is natural, not super natural. So if you are going to say religion is natural, that is no different than mistaking the shaddow on the wall for a boogieman as a kid. False perceptions are natural, but it is bullshit to claim we should never challenge humans perceptions to get away from bad claims. 

All you are doing is coddling the insecurities of those who refuse to give up on myth and bad ideas. Yes religion is natural, but so is our ability to scrap bad claims.

If you want to allow bullshit claims cover because false perceptions are natural, you can. But I am glad humans in the past bothered to investigate and not simply say "let them believe what they want" no matter how false that perception was. 

All you are doing is saying "What is wrong with what they believe". Please seriously don't call yourselves skeptics or even atheists if you think "natural" means dwelling in the past because someone might get their ego bruised and be proven wrong.

I am glad someone found out the earth revolves around the sun. I am glad blacks and women bucked the social norms that freed them from the religious justified slavery and sexism. I am glad our secular laws are freeing gays from the same religious based bullshit homophobia.

Just because you have the right to believe something does not mean it is good. Just because it is natural for humans to come to false conclusions does not make it good. 

Now again, our species behavior, including false perceptions is in us. But also in us is the ability to filter information and test it to insure quality of data. Religion is a flaw as an outcome, not a requirement. It's natural like a dog barking at it's own reflection. But that does not mean the barking dog knows the reality it is just them. Religion is a missfire, a missunderstanding that all it is is us turning behavior into a comic book reflecting our own desires. 

Do you want people to live in the past or do you want people to give up on bad ideas? Do you want them to continue to make up mythological excuses and believe false things? 

God claims are not true or real, they are anthropomorphism. They are merely reflections of humans. They are the dog mistaking it's reflecion in the mirror for a real dog. It is falsely seeing the butterfly in the inkblot. Humans make up gods, and if you do not buy god claims, then you should care enough to value the reality of why people make them up instead of thinking it is ok for  humans to cling to bad claims.

Yes god claims are natural, just like falling for Santa is natural when you don't know any better as a kid. But when you know better you leave those childish claims behind. If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves. 

False perceptions are natural, but so is our ability to overcome them. 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Religion is a

Brian37 wrote:
Religion is a missfire, a missunderstanding that all it is is us turning behavior into a comic book reflecting our own desires.

totally unsubstantiated. the most you can say this about are certain claims certain religions have made. to say this about all religion is a naked assertion, pure and simple.


dumbass wrote:
Do you want people to live in the past or do you want people to give up on bad ideas? Do you want them to continue to make up mythological excuses and believe false things?



i'm sure for some people i probably would prefer that.


shit-for-brains wrote:
God claims are not true or real, they are anthropomorphism.



you obviously have no idea what "anthropomorphism" means. sometimes trying to look intelligent can backfire.


and you cannot say conclusively that god claims are not true. there is absolutely no way to falsify a god claim. another naked assertion.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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by the way, being a skeptic

by the way, being a skeptic means being continually on the lookout for bullshit, and a blind man could spot your bullshit. i wouldn't be worthy of calling myself a skeptic if i didn't call you on it.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson