Jack the Ripper has been identified

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Jack the Ripper has been identified

DNA analysis of fourth victim’s shawl reveals Jack the Ripper was a Polish hairdresser gone mad

Guy Walters, The Telegraph | September 8, 2014 | Last Updated: Sep 8 9:42 AM ET

In 2007, a businessman called Russell Edwards bought a shawl that was said to belong to Catherine Eddowes, one of the Ripper’s victims. Mr Edwards took the shawl to Jari Louhelainen, a senior lecturer in molecular biology at Liverpool John Moores, and a specialist in genetics and forensics.

Using a process called “vacuuming”, Dr. Louhelainen was able to extract enough DNA from bloodstains on the shawl to match the DNA taken from Karen Miller, a direct descendant of Jack the Ripper’s fourth victim Catherine Eddowes. Even more excitingly, Dr. Louhelainen was able to find some seminal fluid, from which he was also able to obtain some DNA.

That DNA is a 100 per cent match for a female descendant of the sister of one of the Ripper suspects – a Polish-born hairdresser called Aaron Kosminski, who suffered from paranoid schizophrenia and hallucinations, and was admitted to mental asylums from 1891 until he died in 1919.

Full Article/Source:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/09/08/dna-analysis-of-fourth-victims-shawl-reveals-jack-the-ripper-was-aaron-kosminski-a-polish-...

That's a really long url. You might have to copy/paste it to get it to work. If it's problematic I'll dig into my rusty html tool box. Hopefully I won't have to.

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 Yeah I saw this, pretty

 Yeah I saw this, pretty cool shit.


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 What do you guys make of

 What do you guys make of this?

http://www.snopes.com/info/news/ripper.asp

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I'm waiting for the peer

I'm waiting for the peer review process to go further before I make any decisions. If the authors don't respond to the criticism, then that will be that.

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 It might be a privately

 It might be a privately funded project, but DNA is certainly a lagit science. The only thing you could question in this really is what the motives are behind it. 

Even if one wanted to claim that those who found the Titanic were not in it for the money, being in the history books as having been the one who found it is a motivator. You just have to insure if you are doing anything to find an answer that you filter out your own bias.

It would help to have it independently confirmed. 

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This is going to sound just terrible

 This is going to sound terrible, but like the article stated, I am disappointed Smiling 

While I am certainly no "Ripperologist" or any of that other stuff, the mystique, mystery and wild theories around the killings have kept me enraptured since childhood. 

Now, after all these damned mysteriy novels, speculations, creepy ideas about what he really was and the pictures in my mind, it turned out he was possibly just another boring lunatic. No royal family, no doctor, no conspiracy, nothing. Hehehe. It is almost like a theist finding out the truth about Christmas.

However, no matter how much hard evidence is uncovered, and no matter what the results, I am sure there will always be people out there that will be speculating about it. Like a lot of things in the world, the truth just ain't no fun.  It is so much more mysterious when you have everything from an underground cabal, to two doctors, to whatever else they have come up with, and now it just this. 

While crime writer Patricia Cornwell was great in her Kay Scarpetta books (well some of them, after awhile it just got repetitive) her "Case Closed" book was something that I thought of as a crock when it first hit the shelves. But that did not stop me from irrationally reading it of course. 

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my personal favorite

my personal favorite fictional take on jack the ripper is in kim newman's novel anno dracula, which i think is currently out of print. in it, dracula defeated van helsing et al. at a crucial point in stoker's novel, and went on to marry queen victoria, bringing about an age where vampires live openly as an upper class (he wrote two sequels, one taking place in WWI, the other in 1960s rome). it's a novel stuffed (overstuffed, imo) with historical, literary, and film references. in it, jack the ripper turns out to be dr. seward, murdering vampiric prostitutes with a silver knife.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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Brian37 wrote: What do you

Brian37 wrote:

 What do you guys make of this?

http://www.snopes.com/info/news/ripper.asp

It actually was me from one of my past lives.


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Personally I always thought

Personally I always thought the Star Trek take on it was the most fun. Could be because that's the first time I heard of Jack the Ripper, but nonetheless I always enjoyed watching that episode.
If the Star Trek version were real, digital just might be right. I advise females to stay away from him. Come to me, I can protect you. =)

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Vastet wrote:Personally I

Vastet wrote:
Personally I always thought the Star Trek take on it was the most fun. Could be because that's the first time I heard of Jack the Ripper, but nonetheless I always enjoyed watching that episode. If the Star Trek version were real, digital just might be right. I advise females to stay away from him. Come to me, I can protect you. =)

HAHA. Episode Wolf in The Fold. That was a good one. 

Favorite actor who played the Ripper (although the show was not that great) was David Werner in Time After Time. Where Malcolm McDowell is HG Wells. The only film role I had seen Malcolm in prior to those, was Caligula and Clockwork Orange, I thought he would have made an excellent ripper and was disappointed he was the time traveler. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
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iwbiek wrote:my personal

iwbiek wrote:
my personal favorite fictional take on jack the ripper is in kim newman's novel anno dracula, which i think is currently out of print. in it, dracula defeated van helsing et al. at a crucial point in stoker's novel, and went on to marry queen victoria, bringing about an age where vampires live openly as an upper class (he wrote two sequels, one taking place in WWI, the other in 1960s rome). it's a novel stuffed (overstuffed, imo) with historical, literary, and film references. in it, jack the ripper turns out to be dr. seward, murdering vampiric prostitutes with a silver knife.

Hadn't heard of that one, will have to check it out. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
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Vastet wrote:Personally I

Vastet wrote:
Personally I always thought the Star Trek take on it was the most fun. Could be because that's the first time I heard of Jack the Ripper, but nonetheless I always enjoyed watching that episode. If the Star Trek version were real, digital just might be right. I advise females to stay away from him. Come to me, I can protect you. =)

I'm going on Netflix to watch it. I got the itch to see it.

(edit)

LOL. It's been a while since I seen that episode. "DIE DIE DIE!, YOU'LL ALL DIE! I'LL CUT OFF YOUR OXYGEN AND WATCH YOU SUFFOCATE! I CONTROL THIS SHIP!"

brilliant episode.


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I'll be watching it soon

I'll be watching it soon myself. I am one episode away from finishing Enterprise, and TOS is next on the list as I watch every Star Trek in order, more or less. I just wish they'd all had 7 seasons.

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Vastet wrote:I'll be

Vastet wrote:
I'll be watching it soon myself. I am one episode away from finishing Enterprise, and TOS is next on the list as I watch every Star Trek in order, more or less. I just wish they'd all had 7 seasons.

I liked Enterprise but I guess when they knew it was ending they had to finish up in some fashion. It then went a little silly for me.


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Vastet wrote:I'll be

Vastet wrote:
I'll be watching it soon myself. I am one episode away from finishing Enterprise, and TOS is next on the list as I watch every Star Trek in order, more or less.



including TAS? i know roddenberry didn't consider it canon. i don't think i would have the patience for it.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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@digital I thought every

@digital
I thought every episode of S4 in Enterprise was brilliant*. It was like they took the plans for every top episode planed for future seasons and crammed them all into one.

*Except the finale. Killing Tucker and bringing in 2.5 TNG characters taking part in a TNG episode that had no real relevance to Enterprise was over the top.

Maybe if they'd had the Romulan-Earth war it would have made more sense, since the treaty discussed by Riker would have been written during the Enterprise run, but the series was cancelled before they could do the war, so all they had to work with was the concept of breaking orders to 'do the right thing'. It was all unnecessary and jarring and didn't feel right. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they just didn't have time to plan a good finale, and that they didn't have as much to work with as originally planned, but it doesn't change the fact that episode was mediocre at best.

@iwbiek
No only live action. I watched a few of the cartoons as a kid, but I never liked it much. The TOS graphics were better than the TAS graphics, which is kinda sad really.

I won't do the new movies either. The first one was a good movie, but not a good Star Trek movie. I don't like how they changed everything. As if the destruction of a single ship would have affected the entire Federation so significantly that the design of the constitution class starships would change, even though the constitution class starships were already in active service, and the Enterprise was only 12 years, at most, from launch under the command of Robert April. Blowing up Vulcan was a cheap move done poorly. They even had to rearrange the birth dates of half the senior staff just to make it work, which in my view stretches credulity beyond the breaking point.

All in all, the rewrite is shit. Worst Star Trek ever.

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Vastet wrote: I won't do

Vastet wrote:

I won't do the new movies either. The first one was a good movie, but not a good Star Trek movie. I don't like how they changed everything. As if the destruction of a single ship would have affected the entire Federation so significantly that the design of the constitution class starships would change, even though the constitution class starships were already in active service, and the Enterprise was only 12 years, at most, from launch under the command of Robert April. Blowing up Vulcan was a cheap move done poorly. They even had to rearrange the birth dates of half the senior staff just to make it work, which in my view stretches credulity beyond the breaking point.

All in all, the rewrite is shit. Worst Star Trek ever.




i haven't seen them. even if i had, i would take them as a reboot, not as classic canon. i never saw any movies past "first contact." "generations" rocked my fucking world, i do remember that. when i was an 11 year-old kid visiting my great uncle, he had the whole original movie series in a vhs boxed set. that was a great week.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Vastet wrote:@digital I

Vastet wrote:
@digital I thought every episode of S4 in Enterprise was brilliant*. It was like they took the plans for every top episode planed for future seasons and crammed them all into one. *Except the finale. Killing Tucker and bringing in 2.5 TNG characters taking part in a TNG episode that had no real relevance to Enterprise was over the top. Maybe if they'd had the Romulan-Earth war it would have made more sense, since the treaty discussed by Riker would have been written during the Enterprise run, but the series was cancelled before they could do the war, so all they had to work with was the concept of breaking orders to 'do the right thing'. It was all unnecessary and jarring and didn't feel right. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they just didn't have time to plan a good finale, and that they didn't have as much to work with as originally planned, but it doesn't change the fact that episode was mediocre at best.  

I was really in to Season 4... but it is too bad the cancelled it. Stupid suits.

It reminds me of Firefly. Fuckers cancelled that one but then kept shithead shows going which sucked.

I think exec's are completely out of touch with reality. 99.9% of all shows on television are complete shit.


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iwbiek wrote:Vastet wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
Vastet wrote:
I won't do the new movies either. The first one was a good movie, but not a good Star Trek movie. I don't like how they changed everything. As if the destruction of a single ship would have affected the entire Federation so significantly that the design of the constitution class starships would change, even though the constitution class starships were already in active service, and the Enterprise was only 12 years, at most, from launch under the command of Robert April. Blowing up Vulcan was a cheap move done poorly. They even had to rearrange the birth dates of half the senior staff just to make it work, which in my view stretches credulity beyond the breaking point. All in all, the rewrite is shit. Worst Star Trek ever.

i haven't seen them. even if i had, i would take them as a reboot, not as classic canon. i never saw any movies past "first contact." "generations" rocked my fucking world, i do remember that. when i was an 11 year-old kid visiting my great uncle, he had the whole original movie series in a vhs boxed set. that was a great week.

I remember liking Voyager, but hated DS9.

Loved Babylon 5 though... 1000x's better than DS9.

 


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digitalbeachbum wrote:I

digitalbeachbum wrote:
I remember liking Voyager, but hated DS9.

Loved Babylon 5 though... 1000x's better than DS9.

 




fuckin' A! i was just about to bring up babylon 5! fuckin' rocked! i don't understand why people give it so much shit. as for DS9, i think the problem was there is only so much that can happen on a space station that doesn't really go anywhere. it didn't have the exploration angle.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:digitalbeachbum

iwbiek wrote:
digitalbeachbum wrote:
I remember liking Voyager, but hated DS9.

 

Loved Babylon 5 though... 1000x's better than DS9.


fuckin' A! i was just about to bring up babylon 5! fuckin' rocked! i don't understand why people give it so much shit. as for DS9, i think the problem was there is only so much that can happen on a space station that doesn't really go anywhere. it didn't have the exploration angle.

Babylon 5 was fucking amazing. The ending got really intense and I wish they would have been able to get another season in but the exec's are assholes. Couldn't tell a good program from a bad program if it fucked them in the ass.

There are shows like Heroes, Lost, Falling Skies, New Battlestar Galactica to name a few which stayed on for several seasons longer than they should have; never understood Lost, Heroes sucked after the first season and Falling Skies was absolutley shit. I watched one episode of NBG and fucking threw my television out the window.


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 I loved B5. Heroes and

 I loved B5. Heroes and Lost were both shows that had such great potential that were destroyed. Fringe also started as a great concept but failed to deliver. I don't get why JJ Abrams is popular in sci fi circles, he has ruined everything he touches. Now, he is probably going to ruin star wars even more than George managed. He should have lost all credibility with his first Star Trek movie.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:get why

Beyond Saving wrote:

get why JJ Abrams is popular in sci fi circles, he has ruined everything he touches. Now, he is probably going to ruin star wars even more than George managed. He should have lost all credibility with his first Star Trek movie.

Please don't say this... Lucas was an idiot and never got any thing right. In all the DVD's and Behind the Scenes he shows himself to be an idiot. He surrounds himself with "yes men".

The first two movies weren't even his, they had other people in the mix who generated the best of the storylines. I want to slap people who claim EI, EII and EIII are the best movies as compared to EV and EIV.

Abrams is a fucking joke. He's going to throw 'lens flares' on every scene...

 


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B5 didn't gain as much

B5 didn't gain as much traction because of appearances. Londo's hairstyle, for example. It even kept me from watching it for awhile. Everyone I've ever talked to who didn't watch it all had the same reason. But after I saw an episode during the Shadow war, I was hooked. Great show, every step of the way. In the Beginning actually made me shed a few tears.

DS9 was also a great show. The first 3 seasons were slow and boring, but when it picked up it blew everything away. Everything. Not even B5, TNG, or Firefly can touch the last few seasons of DS9. Though I'd give B5 the advantage as a series vs series; because it was consistently good every step of the way and DS9 was certainly not.

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Lucas was perfection, and

Lucas was perfection, and every movie was his first and foremost. The only flaw in all of Star Wars was Jar Jar.

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 I should probably go back

 I should probably go back and watch DS9 I never made it to the end. Life got really busy for me towards the end of its run and I watched virtually zero tv the late 90s  (too busy not growing up). I never got around to watching the end of it or Voyager. I always struggled with Voyager because I couldn't stand Chakotay, but I had a bit of a crush on Torres. Should add them to the netflix.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Vastet wrote:Lucas was

Vastet wrote:
Lucas was perfection, and every movie was his first and foremost. The only flaw in all of Star Wars was Jar Jar.

I've watched the original movies hundreds of times. I've never had the desire to rewatch any of the prequals. In many ways, the juxtaposition of the trilogies is a good example of the move from cultish towards the commercialization of sci fi. Maybe they aren't bad, but the prequals are to the originals as Nickleback is to Soundgarden or Alice in Chains. More modern, slicker, more professional, but missing a lot of the character.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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With DS9 you really only

With DS9 you really only need to see Emissary and The Jem Hadar, out of the first two seasons. Season 3 isn't much more interesting, but it starts picking up a bit and there is more than one episode that deals with the overall arc. It's season 4 where the shit starts hitting the proverbial fan.
But, as has always been the case with Star Trek (at least until Enterprise), there are filler episodes in every season all the way to the end, that have little or nothing to do with the overall arc. There are a number of episodes I usually skip over when watching DS9. It's really annoying to me, because by the end of season 4 they had all the necessary plot elements in place to be able to have the arc in every episode, even if it was just as the b story. I think the staff should have looked at what B5 was doing more. There were filler episodes in B5 too, but if it was a filler episode they still did something with the b or even c story that kept the arc moving.
DS9's greatest flaw was that there were always episodes that you had no reason to watch. It was trying to be another typical Star Trek series, even while it tried to do something new and different (new and different in Star Trek, anyway).

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Beyond Saving wrote:Vastet

Beyond Saving wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Lucas was perfection, and every movie was his first and foremost. The only flaw in all of Star Wars was Jar Jar.

I've watched the original movies hundreds of times. I've never had the desire to rewatch any of the prequals. In many ways, the juxtaposition of the trilogies is a good example of the move from cultish towards the commercialization of sci fi. Maybe they aren't bad, but the prequals are to the originals as Nickleback is to Soundgarden or Alice in Chains. More modern, slicker, more professional, but missing a lot of the character.

Well I can't really disagree, but it wasn't really possible either. E1-3 had to recreate the galaxy to show pre-empire, and then also crush it into the empire. That took about a third of the time available in the prequel trilogy. Bringing in Anakin as a kid meant they had to spend another third of available time explaining him, and his turn, and his relationship to Kenobi, and Luke/Leia as well. The original films had to do less than half of that, and had much more screen time available for character development and atmosphere as a result. The originals felt laid back and the prequels felt rushed simply because of all the stuff they had to do. I give the prequels as much credit as I do because they told three times as much story in the same amount of time as the originals, which I honestly felt was literally impossible before they were done and proved me wrong.

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yeah, i never thought of it

yeah, i never thought of it that way, but the prequels probably should have been five or six films. i give credit to lucas for treating his epic the way the chinese treat theirs: sprawling. the classic chinese novels (dream of the red chamber, etc.) span several volumes, and their films are similar. a different chinese version of crouching tiger, hidden dragon, more faithful to the original source material, waa basically a miniseries lasting like 12 hours. had the prequels been six films instead of three, i might have liked them better. still, i consider phantom menace a throwaway film. i don't see why it was necessary to show anakin's early childhood: it added nothing. in the first movie he's a happy, friendly little munchkin, then i'm supposed to believe he suddenly turned into a murderous freak? and padme aged, like, not at all? what the fuck? seriously, attack of the clones and revenge of the sith fit together almost seamlessly. what the fuck was the phantom menace, except a moneymaker?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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Vastet wrote:Lucas was

Vastet wrote:
Lucas was perfection, and every movie was his first and foremost. The only flaw in all of Star Wars was Jar Jar.

Lucas had a lot less to do with IV and V than people think.

Jar Jar was a walking cluster fuck as well, EI, EII and EIII


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Phantom was so different

Phantom was so different because it was setting the chess pieces up, while the next two movies actually moved them into play. I think it probably should have been a trilogy on its own, just because it was so far out of the timeline and did so much. It introduced the Jedi, established them as the force in the galaxy, showed they didn't directly interfere in politics, put Palpatine on the throne, introduced Anakin and Kenobi, gave Kenobi the motivation to train Anakin, gave Anakin an opening to the dark side, introduced the Sith (poorly I think, the Sith are much more interesting than they appeared in TPM), introduced Padme, introduced the droids, etc.

Thhe problem was it did way too much for a single film, and as a result it didn't do enough.

2 & 3 happened in a few years, as did 4-6. 1 being removed by a decade made it odd, and left too many questions unanswered. You have to read the books to see how Anakin was already moving to the dark side, and that is horrible from the film perspective.

I think there should have been at least two stand alone films to break things up and allow to focus more on critical issues as a result.

A good opener would have gone back to the origin of the Sith rule of two, with Darth Bane. They could have dealt with the Sith and Jedi both in such a film, and leave out the cast to come completely. That would have opened up at least half an hour to an hour of TPM to stretch Anakin and Kenobi and Padme more, which could have given them more depth.

As a second stand alone film, they could then have introduced the necessary cast for the trilogy to come, without having to devote anything extra to the Sith or Jedi.

Episode 2 then would have been the start of the trilogy. Episode 3 would still be the conclusion, and a film concentrating on the clone wars would be the perfect time to really push Anakin towards the dark side. It would have kept the time frame that 4-6 used in the process, and could have done a better job of showing Anakin's friction with the Jedi and Palpatine's developing relationship with him as well.

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digitalbeachbum wrote:Vastet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Lucas was perfection, and every movie was his first and foremost. The only flaw in all of Star Wars was Jar Jar.

Lucas had a lot less to do with IV and V than people think.

Jar Jar was a walking cluster fuck as well, EI, EII and EIII

He wrote the book himself. He even did the effects himself. Episode 4 was ALL Lucas. It was 5 & 6 that he had a little less to do with, but he was still effectively the director. The actual director was not much more than Lucas' assistant.

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Vastet wrote:digitalbeachbum

Moved to a different thread

 


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Vastet wrote: He wrote the

Vastet wrote:

He wrote the book himself.




um, in my edition of the star wars novel, which is part of an omnibus containing all three original novels--i think it came out in like '96 or '97--lucas writes in an introduction that the novel was ghostwritten for him by alan dean foster.


also, now that disney has definitively proclaimed the expanded universe novels noncanon, will the books that run parallel to the trilogies still be considered canon? i hope people will still be able and willing to continue writing expanded universe novels, as sort of an alternate universe from the sequels. i hate to see so many writers' work go down the drain.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Vastet wrote:The only flaw

Vastet wrote:
The only flaw in all of Star Wars was Jar Jar.

 

   Jar Jar is to Star Wars as Brian37 is to the Rational Response Squad, an irritating distraction whose presence is utterly useless.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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iwbiek wrote:Vastet

iwbiek wrote:
Vastet wrote:

He wrote the book himself.




um, in my edition of the star wars novel, which is part of an omnibus containing all three original novels--i think it came out in like '96 or '97--lucas writes in an introduction that the novel was ghostwritten for him by alan dean foster.

I must have known that at some point. I always read forewords. I wonder when I forgot. But it doesn't really change much. Lucas still did all the plot elements and back story. Foster is a great author, and I'm sure he did better than Lucas could have, but it is still Lucas' story.

Quote:


also, now that disney has definitively proclaimed the expanded universe novels noncanon, will the books that run parallel to the trilogies still be considered canon? i hope people will still be able and willing to continue writing expanded universe novels, as sort of an alternate universe from the sequels. i hate to see so many writers' work go down the drain.


In my opinion, Star Wars died the day Disney did that, and nothing that is released in the future is canon. I can't see any reason to write more EU novels. When E7 comes out, the publishers will start filling holes between it & 6. When 9 comes out publishers will start filling the aftermath. Star Wars has become Star Trek, with novels and stories contradicting themselves and the movies. Disney killed it just so their new shitty director could make his story without having to know what happened.

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I have to revise my opinion

I have to revise my opinion on the first season of DS9. I just finished it, and I'm halfway through season 2 and season 7 of STTNG. Season 2 is shit really (with a few significant exceptions), but season 1 was surprisingly good. There were only 2 episodes I disliked, and almost every episode tied in to what happens in later seasons. I don't know how I missed all the little hints and pokes before, but they were setting things down that would pay off 2, 3, & 6 seasons later. It's rather disappointing how bad season 2 is after watching season 1. It's like they had the beginning of the story and the end of the story figured, but didn't know what to do to fill the journey.

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Vastet wrote:I have to

Vastet wrote:
I have to revise my opinion on the first season of DS9. I just finished it, and I'm halfway through season 2 and season 7 of STTNG. Season 2 is shit really (with a few significant exceptions), but season 1 was surprisingly good. There were only 2 episodes I disliked, and almost every episode tied in to what happens in later seasons. I don't know how I missed all the little hints and pokes before, but they were setting things down that would pay off 2, 3, & 6 seasons later. It's rather disappointing how bad season 2 is after watching season 1. It's like they had the beginning of the story and the end of the story figured, but didn't know what to do to fill the journey.

 

Have you been keeping track of the writers? I've noticed that some of my favorite shows suddenly change... when I look at the writers one person drops or a new person is added. Then when I notice that person again I compare other episodes to see if they are a crappy writer.


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Not really. I do agree that

Not really. I do agree that often it makes a difference, but when I'm committed to watching every episode anyway, keeping track of the writers can lead to the desire to skip episodes.

There are also some examples of writers making a brilliant episode one day, and a horrid one the next. A perfect example is Morgan Gendel. He wrote the amazing STTNG episode "The Inner Light", an episode that usually makes it onto lists of top ten Star Trek episodes. He also wrote the mediocre-at-best episode "Passenger" for DS9.

As I've been going back through ST overall, I've been learning some things about what was going on behind the scenes. I've been amazed to learn just how bad things were for everyone involved in the shows. Sexual harassment and discrimination, stress, and other shit. The loss of 2/3rds of the female leads on STTNG during/at-conclusion-of season 1 was directly tied to this crap. Even Roddenberry himself tried to destroy the franchise (unintentionally), he'd gotten so out of touch with what his creation was about and what humanity is. And there was constant pressure from Paramount to do this or that, which led to a number of shitty episodes, particularly in STTNG.

It's a testament to those who survived the first 2 seasons and those who took up the reigns in the third that the show ended up being so amazing. I have to say it is entirely possible that the show survived on the back of Patrick Stewart's awesomeness for the first 2 seasons. Even when he's given the most crappy material possible, he makes it watchable.

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Vastet wrote:Not really. I

Vastet wrote:
Not really. I do agree that often it makes a difference, but when I'm committed to watching every episode anyway, keeping track of the writers can lead to the desire to skip episodes. There are also some examples of writers making a brilliant episode one day, and a horrid one the next. A perfect example is Morgan Gendel. He wrote the amazing STTNG episode "The Inner Light", an episode that usually makes it onto lists of top ten Star Trek episodes. He also wrote the mediocre-at-best episode "Passenger" for DS9. As I've been going back through ST overall, I've been learning some things about what was going on behind the scenes. I've been amazed to learn just how bad things were for everyone involved in the shows. Sexual harassment and discrimination, stress, and other shit. The loss of 2/3rds of the female leads on STTNG during/at-conclusion-of season 1 was directly tied to this crap. Even Roddenberry himself tried to destroy the franchise (unintentionally), he'd gotten so out of touch with what his creation was about and what humanity is. And there was constant pressure from Paramount to do this or that, which led to a number of shitty episodes, particularly in STTNG. It's a testament to those who survived the first 2 seasons and those who took up the reigns in the third that the show ended up being so amazing. I have to say it is entirely possible that the show survived on the back of Patrick Stewart's awesomeness for the first 2 seasons. Even when he's given the most crappy material possible, he makes it watchable.

Did you see the documentary by Roddenberry's son?


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No, I didn't know there was

No, I didn't know there was one. I'll have to look for it.

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Vastet wrote:No, I didn't

Vastet wrote:
No, I didn't know there was one. I'll have to look for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trek_Nation

It was interesting to see the interview with George Lucas. I didn't expect it but considering that Star Trek came 15 years before Star Wars I guess that it had an impact on a young Lucas.

 


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I downloaded it last night.

I downloaded it last night. Won't have time to watch it until tonight though.

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Lot of big names in it. Stan

Lot of big names in it. Stan Lee was a surprise. That guy is everywhere so it shouldn't have been, but it was. I enjoyed it. Thanks for pointing me to it.

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Vastet wrote:Lot of big

Vastet wrote:
Lot of big names in it. Stan Lee was a surprise. That guy is everywhere so it shouldn't have been, but it was. I enjoyed it. Thanks for pointing me to it.

No problem. Did you see Trekkies 1 and 2?


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The 1st one. Didn't know

The 1st one. Didn't know there was a second.

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