Former Ohio governor attempts to live on min wage for a week, but can't do it.

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Former Ohio governor attempts to live on min wage for a week, but can't do it.

WASHINGTON, July 28 (UPI) --Ted Strickland attempted to live for a week on the budget of someone earning minimum wage and couldn't quite get by.
The former Democratic governor of Ohio gave himself a budget of $77 to cover his food, transportation and any additional expenses that might arise.

In his own words: "I didn't make it."

~

Strickland's conclusion after a week on a minimum wage budget:

"It's un-American that you can work and work and work and not get out of poverty. The promise of America is that working hard and playing by the rules will help you get ahead, but right now, we're breaking that promise. It's time to give America a raise."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/07/28/Governor-tried-failed-to-live-on-minimum-wage-for-a-week-ran-out-of-bologna/441140658265...


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 Well he couldn't get the

 Well he couldn't get the state by on an $100 billion budget. I think the only lesson here is don't look to Strickland for budgeting advice as he is clearly incompetent. The dumb fuck went to a convenience store to buy food... the absolute most expensive place you can buy food. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: Well

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Well he couldn't get the state by on an $100 billion budget. I think the only lesson here is don't look to Strickland for budgeting advice as he is clearly incompetent. The dumb fuck went to a convenience store to buy food... the absolute most expensive place you can buy food. 

Oh stop, you pretending to care about low wage workers is a joke.

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Beyond Saving wrote: Well

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Well he couldn't get the state by on an $100 billion budget. I think the only lesson here is don't look to Strickland for budgeting advice as he is clearly incompetent. The dumb fuck went to a convenience store to buy food... the absolute most expensive place you can buy food. 

That's true, but it still demonstrates how out of touch the well off are regarding the poor.

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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Well he couldn't get the state by on an $100 billion budget. I think the only lesson here is don't look to Strickland for budgeting advice as he is clearly incompetent. The dumb fuck went to a convenience store to buy food... the absolute most expensive place you can buy food. 

Oh stop, you pretending to care about low wage workers is a joke.

I don't give a shit about low wage workers. If you are only worth $7 and change an hour, you aren't worth the effort of me filling out the paperwork to hire you. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Vastet wrote:Beyond Saving

Vastet wrote:
Beyond Saving wrote:

 Well he couldn't get the state by on an $100 billion budget. I think the only lesson here is don't look to Strickland for budgeting advice as he is clearly incompetent. The dumb fuck went to a convenience store to buy food... the absolute most expensive place you can buy food. 

That's true, but it still demonstrates how out of touch the well off are regarding the poor.

The whole idea that there are a bunch of people out there raising families on minimum wage is bullshit. Minimum wage workers are primarily found as servers in the restaurant industry- who make well over minimum wage after tips, and fast food restaurants who are overwhelmingly teenagers.  

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/02/who-earns-the-minimum-wage-suburban-teenagers-not-single-parents

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Interesting. I wonder how

Interesting. I wonder how different the US is from Canada in this. I know lots of people trying to raise a family on minimum wage. Most of them are also on welfare and all of them hit up the food bank every month.

I know inflation here has outpaced minimum wage for 4 or 5 decades, is it the same there?

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This entire exercise is an

This entire exercise is an anecdote and a really (REALLY) stupid anecdote at that. 

First of all, how did he come up with $77?

The U.S. national minimum is now set at $7.25.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

Ohio's minimum wage is about the same.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-minimum-wage-chart.aspx

So.....if he made $77 in a week, then he's assuming he was only able to scourage about 10-11 hours of work. Am I missing something?

Your link didn't work for me so I used this one.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/07/a-mile-in-shoes-of-the-minimum-wage-worker-109418.html#.U9g9N_ldVqU

strickland wrote:
I would normally take a cab, but this time, I took off my jacket and walked the mile in 90-degree heat, then walked back almost 2 miles to my office.

Wow.

So, he walked about 3 miles. Holy baloney on a shish kebob, the poor soul. 

strickland wrote:
Because fresh fruits and vegetables are hard to find at a price within a minimum wage budget, I turned to bread, peanut butter, bananas and bologna more than anything else.

strickland wrote:
Lunches were normally leftovers, macaroni and cheese or McDonald’s. There were no big dinners or coffee stops on a whim

Some of those are cheap. Some....not the cheapest.

McDonald's? Seriously? He should avoid eating out as much as possible, unless he had coupons for free cheeseburgers or something. Clearly, we're dealing with a person that didn't really think this through.

If he's determined to eat healthy, maybe he could try including some soylent, lol. But, obviously, not very determined if he's opting for the McDonald's dollar menu.

strickland wrote:
That’s why I joined members of Congress and dozens of organizations in taking the Live the Wage challenge (www.LivetheWage.com), and asking those in Congress to actually try living on the minimum wage for a week before opposing an increase that would help millions of Americans who currently live in poverty.

Most members of Congress are spoiled brats. Of course they'll never be able to live on a minimum wage. 

Not to mention, I don't actually oppose an increase in the minimum wage, but just saying, "Poor people are struggling, so we should pay then more. Try living like them if you don't believe me," undermines real intelligent discussion on the topic with a simple-minded appeal to emotion that doesn't mention any pragmatic, financial, political, etc. considerations, imo. This is not much different from saying, "We should allow all illegal citizens to apply for citizenship because being an illegal immigrant sucks and being in Latin America sucks. Move to Colombia if you don't believe me." or "We need to intervene in Syria with maximum military force because the people there are being killed by their government. Go take a trip there if you don't believe me."

On the other hand, maybe this is what it takes for our representives in Congress to actually 'understand' something. They've shown in the past that their understanding of topics like, say, science or technology or even the economy, is mediocre at best and, at worst, beyond terrifying. So, clearly, logic and evidence, by itself, doesn't always work on Congress. Maybe they really do have to try to live like a poor person for a while to grasp the concept that not having much money makes life harder and poor people aren't necessarily just lazy. Hmmm.

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butterbattle wrote:First of

butterbattle wrote:

First of all, how did he come up with $77?

That's how much he earned in a week giving blow jobs to John's.


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butterbattle wrote:So.....if

butterbattle wrote:
So.....if he made $77 in a week, then he's assuming he was only able to scourage about 10-11 hours of work. Am I missing something?

Well I can't help break the whole thing down with certainty, but $7.25 @ full time (40 hours) is $290. x4 = $1160/month. I looked up rent in Ohio, it looks like the average in the samples I looked at is between 700 & 800 for a 1 bedroom apartment. There were some as low as $500, but there were also some above 1k. If we go with $750, then he'd have $102.50 per week.

Ah but I didn't factor taxes, and won't try because the US tax system is too different. Nor did I factor utilities, again because I don't have enough information.

It doesn't seem like $77 is very far off the mark to me though.

butterbattle wrote:
Wow.

So, he walked about 3 miles. Holy baloney on a shish kebob, the poor soul. 

Lol yeah. But then I suspect most people would find a 3 mile walk to work a bit much until they'd done it a few times.

butterbattle wrote:
McDonald's? Seriously? He should avoid eating out as much as possible, unless he had coupons for free cheeseburgers or something. Clearly, we're dealing with a person that didn't really think this through.

In his defence, contrary to what one would think, McDonalds can be a very cheap way of eating. Not if you go for meals and double quarter pounders obviously, but two cheeseburgers is less than $3. It's hard to beat that. Impossible really, if you live on your own. You can't buy food in bulk because most of it goes bad unless you're lucky enough to have grabbed a deep freezer somewhere along the way, which most people below the poverty line haven't been able to do in my experience. Damn things are expensive.

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Vastet wrote:Interesting. I

Vastet wrote:
Interesting. I wonder how different the US is from Canada in this. I know lots of people trying to raise a family on minimum wage. Most of them are also on welfare and all of them hit up the food bank every month. I know inflation here has outpaced minimum wage for 4 or 5 decades, is it the same there?

Pretty much. We went for about 30 years before it was raised quite a bit in 2007, but when it was raised it was still less than most companies had to pay to attract workers. That is why it is mostly a non-issue now unless you want to discuss a huge increase. If they raise it to $9 something, it doesn't help anyone and may cause a few kids to lose their summer jobs. If you start talking $15 then you raise wages for a lot of people, but also put a major strain on businesses until they can inflate prices. $15 isn't really a possibility politically. Even in Seattle, they phased it in slow that the prevailing market wages would probably be nearing $15 anyway and $15 will no longer be what they call a 'living wage' (something I really want someone to define objectively). Most likely, the increase will be something irrelevant that politicians can beat their chests over, while not helping anyone.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Vastet wrote:butterbattle

Vastet wrote:
butterbattle wrote:
So.....if he made $77 in a week, then he's assuming he was only able to scourage about 10-11 hours of work. Am I missing something?
Well I can't help break the whole thing down with certainty, but $7.25 @ full time (40 hours) is $290. x4 = $1160/month. I looked up rent in Ohio, it looks like the average in the samples I looked at is between 700 & 800 for a 1 bedroom apartment. There were some as low as $500, but there were also some above 1k. If we go with $750, then he'd have $102.50 per week. Ah but I didn't factor taxes, and won't try because the US tax system is too different. Nor did I factor utilities, again because I don't have enough information. It doesn't seem like $77 is very far off the mark to me though.
butterbattle wrote:
Wow. So, he walked about 3 miles. Holy baloney on a shish kebob, the poor soul. 
Lol yeah. But then I suspect most people would find a 3 mile walk to work a bit much until they'd done it a few times.
butterbattle wrote:
McDonald's? Seriously? He should avoid eating out as much as possible, unless he had coupons for free cheeseburgers or something. Clearly, we're dealing with a person that didn't really think this through.
In his defence, contrary to what one would think, McDonalds can be a very cheap way of eating. Not if you go for meals and double quarter pounders obviously, but two cheeseburgers is less than $3. It's hard to beat that. Impossible really, if you live on your own. You can't buy food in bulk because most of it goes bad unless you're lucky enough to have grabbed a deep freezer somewhere along the way, which most people below the poverty line haven't been able to do in my experience. Damn things are expensive.

Yeah, I think they factored in utilities rent and such to arrive at $77. It is reasonable to get an apartment for $550 in a decent area. If you pay cash and ghetto it you can get by with an efficiency for $400. Where I live you can rent a 3 bedroom house for $600, but it is a really depressed housing market. So yeah it is probably a reasonable number. Although location plays a huge role, living on minimum wage in a city is very different than a rural area. There are breakfast places here where for $5 you can get a hearty meal with coffee, you won't find that in the cities. Which is why the average pay in the cities is over $10 even for mcdonalds, while the mcd's here pays $8 and change. The ultimate failure of central control is that not all places are equal. If you  are going to have minimum wage laws, it should be a local decision. Otherwise, you are fucking someone over and probably not really achieving your original goal.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Vastet

Beyond Saving wrote:

Vastet wrote:
butterbattle wrote:
So.....if he made $77 in a week, then he's assuming he was only able to scourage about 10-11 hours of work. Am I missing something?
Well I can't help break the whole thing down with certainty, but $7.25 @ full time (40 hours) is $290. x4 = $1160/month. I looked up rent in Ohio, it looks like the average in the samples I looked at is between 700 & 800 for a 1 bedroom apartment. There were some as low as $500, but there were also some above 1k. If we go with $750, then he'd have $102.50 per week. Ah but I didn't factor taxes, and won't try because the US tax system is too different. Nor did I factor utilities, again because I don't have enough information. It doesn't seem like $77 is very far off the mark to me though.
butterbattle wrote:
Wow. So, he walked about 3 miles. Holy baloney on a shish kebob, the poor soul. 
Lol yeah. But then I suspect most people would find a 3 mile walk to work a bit much until they'd done it a few times.
butterbattle wrote:
McDonald's? Seriously? He should avoid eating out as much as possible, unless he had coupons for free cheeseburgers or something. Clearly, we're dealing with a person that didn't really think this through.
In his defence, contrary to what one would think, McDonalds can be a very cheap way of eating. Not if you go for meals and double quarter pounders obviously, but two cheeseburgers is less than $3. It's hard to beat that. Impossible really, if you live on your own. You can't buy food in bulk because most of it goes bad unless you're lucky enough to have grabbed a deep freezer somewhere along the way, which most people below the poverty line haven't been able to do in my experience. Damn things are expensive.

Yeah, I think they factored in utilities rent and such to arrive at $77. It is reasonable to get an apartment for $550 in a decent area. If you pay cash and ghetto it you can get by with an efficiency for $400. Where I live you can rent a 3 bedroom house for $600, but it is a really depressed housing market. So yeah it is probably a reasonable number. Although location plays a huge role, living on minimum wage in a city is very different than a rural area. There are breakfast places here where for $5 you can get a hearty meal with coffee, you won't find that in the cities. Which is why the average pay in the cities is over $10 even for mcdonalds, while the mcd's here pays $8 and change. The ultimate failure of central control is that not all places are equal. If you  are going to have minimum wage laws, it should be a local decision. Otherwise, you are fucking someone over and probably not really achieving your original goal.  

Down here you can get a low income 1/1 condo for under $400, but that is in the ghetto. In a middle class neighborhood you would be looking at $550 for the same sqft. Downtown Orlando, 1/1 efficiencies go for $600 and up for 500 sqft of space.

I could get by with $77. I'd hit all the freebie stuff when possible then go to places like Winn Dixie for foods. I wouldn't ever eat out because it is too expensive, however there is a "crepe" place which just opened up where you get get a decent meal for $5.


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Beyond Saving wrote:Vastet

Beyond Saving wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Interesting. I wonder how different the US is from Canada in this. I know lots of people trying to raise a family on minimum wage. Most of them are also on welfare and all of them hit up the food bank every month. I know inflation here has outpaced minimum wage for 4 or 5 decades, is it the same there?

Pretty much. We went for about 30 years before it was raised quite a bit in 2007, but when it was raised it was still less than most companies had to pay to attract workers. That is why it is mostly a non-issue now unless you want to discuss a huge increase. If they raise it to $9 something, it doesn't help anyone and may cause a few kids to lose their summer jobs. If you start talking $15 then you raise wages for a lot of people, but also put a major strain on businesses until they can inflate prices. $15 isn't really a possibility politically. Even in Seattle, they phased it in slow that the prevailing market wages would probably be nearing $15 anyway and $15 will no longer be what they call a 'living wage' (something I really want someone to define objectively). Most likely, the increase will be something irrelevant that politicians can beat their chests over, while not helping anyone.

Oh shit. Raising min wage by that much would fuck up thousands of businesses. Most or all of Canada has spent the last 15 odd years trying to get wages up to where they match inflation. It pretty much made the majority of work min wage. You really have to be in emergency services, entertainment, the government, or be a lawyer to get better these days. There's still some factories paying higher for full time, but you have to wait for someone to die to get that kind of job. Most of their turnover is all from temp agencies.

Beyond Saving wrote:
Yeah, I think they factored in utilities rent and such to arrive at $77. It is reasonable to get an apartment for $550 in a decent area. If you pay cash and ghetto it you can get by with an efficiency for $400. Where I live you can rent a 3 bedroom house for $600, but it is a really depressed housing market. So yeah it is probably a reasonable number. Although location plays a huge role, living on minimum wage in a city is very different than a rural area. There are breakfast places here where for $5 you can get a hearty meal with coffee, you won't find that in the cities. Which is why the average pay in the cities is over $10 even for mcdonalds, while the mcd's here pays $8 and change. The ultimate failure of central control is that not all places are equal. If you  are going to have minimum wage laws, it should be a local decision. Otherwise, you are fucking someone over and probably not really achieving your original goal.  

I have to say I envy your rent prices in the US. Here, anything under $700 for a 1 br is rare, and probably going to lead to problems one day. I can't recall seeing any house rental for under 1k. Even most townhouses are at about 1k these days. Rent costs were, I think, what really made it necessary for the government in Ontario to raise min wage to $11/hour from $6.85/hour. It took 4+ years for them to do it incrementally, after about 30 years of sitting at $6.85.

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Ah, okay. $77 is what he

Ah, okay. $77 is what he hypothetically had left over after housing, utilities, taxes, etc. 

As for McDonald's, hmmm, I see what you're saying on that too...

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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the idea that seasonal,

the idea that seasonal, fresh produce is a luxury item is fucking stupid. maybe if you want strawberries in december, sure, but otherwise, fuck me, take a goddamn cooking class. there is no fucking way that a homemade, delicious chicken curry, for example, is more expensive than mcdonald's (i can make enough curry for the family to have dinner for two days, seconds and all, for well under 5 euros). here in slovakia, teachers are notoriously poorly paid, and prices on most items are not low. we avoid eating out like the plague and make damn near everything from scratch (and no, it's really not that time-consuming if you're smart about the dishes you choose to make). money does get tight now and then, but never because of groceries, and we eat damn well. americans are just frustrating fucking morons when it comes to grocery shopping and cooking.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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I learned how to cook as a

I learned how to cook as a kid. I dare say I'm good enough at it now that I could be a chef at a restaurant. And I can honestly say it isn't better to buy groceries than to go fast food in every circumstance. The grocery stores don't stock their shelves with single persons in mind. If you've got 3 or more people to feed, you're set by grocery shopping and cooking. Might even be doable with 2 people. But not if you're on your own. If I cooked up a big curry it would go bad before I ate half of it, so the money I spent on those groceries was only 50% efficient at best. Probably less since I will have left overs that'll go bad faster than the curry does. A loaf of bread even will go stale and moldy before it's done. Fruit is ridiculously bad. As much as 3/4s of it will probably go bad before you can eat it.

The only thing cheaper than fast food is cheap Kraft dinner knockoffs and hot dog weiners. McDonalds is more nutritious than that shit, and tastier too.

The smaller quantity you buy, the more expensive it is. I can buy a pack of 4 peppers for only $5. If I buy one alone, it's like $2.50. There isn't a cost effective way to shop for groceries if you're single. Especially when considering a 2 br apartment is about the same rent as a 1 br. Maybe as much as a hundred more, but sometimes almost exactly the same price.

I can't speak for everywhere in NA with absolute confidence, but I've never lived in a place where it cost less to be single than it did to be living with multiple people, be it friends or family (which simply isn't always an option). That reduces your available budget for food right off the hop, and your problems are compounded by the food being more expensive.

Even living with other people doesn't necessarily have much or any positive impact on grocery costs. I had 7 roommates at one time, but everyone had their own ideas on when and what to eat. You couldn't get everyone to pool together to do some proper grocery shopping because the tastes were too varied. Fortunately the reduction in cost of rent allowed me to eat fairly well anyway, but it wasn't cheap. And since there was only one fridge, storage space was limited.

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it just all takes planning

it just all takes planning and knowledge. knowing how to can helps a lot (it's not that hard), especially if you have a tiny freezer. also, many people just don't know how to store food properly (don't store your onions anywhere near your potatoes, etc.), which can significantly reduce shelf life.


as far as curry goes, you don't have to make a big one. curry powders last virtually forever, and if you want to go fancy and make a paste it can freeze or can easily. i mean, a package of three skinless chicken breasts here in slovakia costs less than a mcdonald's value meal, and can feed a single person in a maximum of two sittings, especially if they're coming from work with a healthy appetite. the only remotely luxury item that goes into my curries is clarified butter, which can easily be replaced with vegetable oil.


however you look at it, i just don't believe that shitty processed junk food is the only, or even the most, affordable option for people on a shoestring budget. granted, for people in the city it is a bit harder, but if you have any amount of cultivatable land and are complaining about food prices, you're a moron, especially now when you can find out anything about raising produce on the internet. nutritious food is not a luxury: nutritious food without work is.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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btw, i love fast food: hot

btw, i love fast food: hot dogs, kebabs, pizza by the slice, even mcdonald's. but they would never be my go-to when thinking, "shit, i'm low on cash."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Well 3 chicken breasts are

Well 3 chicken breasts are not cheaper than a meal at McD's here. If I add the cost of all the ingredients to make a curry up, I get more meals at McD's for cheaper, with less waste. If I go to Costco I can get a sweet deal for a whole bunch of breasts, but living on my own without a Costco membership changes things hugely. For the cost of 3 chicken breasts I can get 4 meals at McD's, consisting of a cheeseburger and 4 pies of whatever flavour they have going.

Currently I have 0 arable land, so no garden crops are an option. I could try growing stuff in pots on the deck, except birds and squirrels will eat it all the day I plant it.

It's a simple fact. Fast food is cheap, if you are smart about it.

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Vastet wrote:Well 3 chicken

Vastet wrote:
Well 3 chicken breasts are not cheaper than a meal at McD's here. If I add the cost of all the ingredients to make a curry up, I get more meals at McD's for cheaper, with less waste. If I go to Costco I can get a sweet deal for a whole bunch of breasts, but living on my own without a Costco membership changes things hugely. For the cost of 3 chicken breasts I can get 4 meals at McD's, consisting of a cheeseburger and 4 pies of whatever flavour they have going. Currently I have 0 arable land, so no garden crops are an option. I could try growing stuff in pots on the deck, except birds and squirrels will eat it all the day I plant it. It's a simple fact. Fast food is cheap, if you are smart about it.

I can make a dish here in Florida for under $15 with two chicken breasts, mushrooms, celery, tomatoes, apples, scallions, spinach and some spices. It will feed me for two meals (large portion) and is healthier than any thing I can get from McD's.

 


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For just under $15 I can eat

For just under $15 I can eat 5 meals at McD's. Your 2/3s of a day feeds me an extra day. That adds up pretty quickly.

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 If you are poor, why the

 If you are poor, why the hell are you even looking at chicken breasts?  You don't need breast for curry and it is by far the most expensive part of the chicken. In fact, I don't use breast for curry now and I don't consider budget when choosing ingredients. I usually use a whole chicken debone it, then make stock with the bones as the base. Then chop the whole thing up. It is around $1 a pound. 

When I was poor, it was whole fryer chickens, nuggets (the left over chunks not the breaded kind) and thighs. If I bought breast it was only because there was a really good sale. Same thing with beef or pork. There are cuts you can get for a few bucks a pound. They are tougher and take more effort to make good, but when you are poor you can't expect to be eating luxury ingredients. Also, you might have to face the reality that you might not be able to eat animal every meal-which we are told is unhealthy anyway. iwbiek's original point is that fresh fruit and vegetables are not expensive. That the conversation focused on the price of the chicken, I think proves his point.

Buy a pound of ground chicken for $2 and you can get 3-4 chicken patties that will be a hell of a lot better quality than a mcchicken. You can do the same for any McD's meal. If you are comparing chicken breast to mcds you have to at least compare it to their sandwiches that have something approaching breast which are all $6+. Otherwise you might as well talk about how cheap it is by comparing it to lobster prices.

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Vastet wrote:For just under

Vastet wrote:
For just under $15 I can eat 5 meals at McD's. Your 2/3s of a day feeds me an extra day. That adds up pretty quickly.

As I mentioned, my portions are large. I'm betting you are a smaller guy right? The same mean for me will feed my wife for a week. She easily make 5-6 portions of the same meal. The key is the veggies. They are nutritious and filling, more than you'd get from McD.

I recall going to McD's a long time ago (high school). I'd eat 7-10 cheeseburgers, large fry, drink. I'd take two of the cheese burgers, then remove the bread from all the others and put the patties on the others, making two triple or quadruple stack burgers.

My portions make the difference in the calculations.


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Beyond Saving wrote: If you

Beyond Saving wrote:

 If you are poor, why the hell are you even looking at chicken breasts?  You don't need breast for curry and it is by far the most expensive part of the chicken. In fact, I don't use breast for curry now and I don't consider budget when choosing ingredients. I usually use a whole chicken debone it, then make stock with the bones as the base. Then chop the whole thing up. It is around $1 a pound. 

When I was poor, it was whole fryer chickens, nuggets (the left over chunks not the breaded kind) and thighs. If I bought breast it was only because there was a really good sale. Same thing with beef or pork. There are cuts you can get for a few bucks a pound. They are tougher and take more effort to make good, but when you are poor you can't expect to be eating luxury ingredients. Also, you might have to face the reality that you might not be able to eat animal every meal-which we are told is unhealthy anyway. iwbiek's original point is that fresh fruit and vegetables are not expensive. That the conversation focused on the price of the chicken, I think proves his point.

Buy a pound of ground chicken for $2 and you can get 3-4 chicken patties that will be a hell of a lot better quality than a mcchicken. You can do the same for any McD's meal. If you are comparing chicken breast to mcds you have to at least compare it to their sandwiches that have something approaching breast which are all $6+. Otherwise you might as well talk about how cheap it is by comparing it to lobster prices.

I've done the ground meat before and on occassion still do because it is cheaper. My point was that I can have a high quality, nutitrious meal for around $7. If I wanted to pinch pennies I could get that same meal down to $2 a meal by changing out the meat.

There is a migrant farmers market down the highway from me. It serves the poor locals and they sell meats, veggies and all the other stuff really cheap. I went in one time to get meat for my sick dog and found whole chickens for under $5. I can get every thing here for around 40-50% cheaper and if I use coupons I could practically eat for free.

I am lazy though I have a large Publix within walking distance of my house. I pay more for my food because I don't want to drive another five miles to a super market and listen to la cucaracha music.

 

 


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Beyond Saving wrote: If you

Beyond Saving wrote:

 If you are poor, why the hell are you even looking at chicken breasts?  You don't need breast for curry and it is by far the most expensive part of the chicken. In fact, I don't use breast for curry now and I don't consider budget when choosing ingredients. I usually use a whole chicken debone it, then make stock with the bones as the base. Then chop the whole thing up. It is around $1 a pound. 

When I was poor, it was whole fryer chickens, nuggets (the left over chunks not the breaded kind) and thighs. If I bought breast it was only because there was a really good sale. Same thing with beef or pork. There are cuts you can get for a few bucks a pound. They are tougher and take more effort to make good, but when you are poor you can't expect to be eating luxury ingredients. Also, you might have to face the reality that you might not be able to eat animal every meal-which we are told is unhealthy anyway. iwbiek's original point is that fresh fruit and vegetables are not expensive. That the conversation focused on the price of the chicken, I think proves his point.

Buy a pound of ground chicken for $2 and you can get 3-4 chicken patties that will be a hell of a lot better quality than a mcchicken. You can do the same for any McD's meal. If you are comparing chicken breast to mcds you have to at least compare it to their sandwiches that have something approaching breast which are all $6+. Otherwise you might as well talk about how cheap it is by comparing it to lobster prices.




well, as you said, it's not necessary to eat meat every day at every meal. i did growing up, because we were well off, but i certainly don't now, nor do i miss it that much. i think most americans just refuse to acknowledge that, or else it doesn't occur to them. if you don't eat meat every day, it's much easier to have your druthers when you do. i prefer to use chicken breasts in curries and stir fries because their flavor is neutral and they cook quickly. when they're cubed and mixed in with potatoes, and squash and zucchini in summer, in a thick sauce, they go a long way. when i fry, i either buy a whole chicken, or just legs and thighs.


again, the key is having a knowledge of how food works, what is seasonal, etc. also, knowing how to cook based on what you have, rather than going shopping for what you want to make, works wonders. here in slovakia, a family of five will gather around an enormous steaming bowl of pasta or potato dumplings mixed with curd or sheep cheese, and dig in. everybody gets full and the whole meal cost like 2 euros maximum. in summer, it's even better: cucumbers, tomatoes, lettuce, salads of all kinds. most americans would just sneer at a meal like that, yet complain all they can afford is fast food, cheetos, and instant ramen.


here, even if someone lives in the city, they usually have at least one friend or relative in a village, usually more, and the custom is to bring each other produce. we have a small garden plot, and we haven't bought potatoes or onions in years. we also have six hens, so for about half the year we never buy eggs...hell, we give them away. it's also common for family members to get together and buy a pig or half a pig (if they haven't raised one or more themselves), then spend an afternoon butchering it, smoking their own bacon, rendering their own lard, making their own sausages. then you have a freezer full of meat for months, and the whole thing costs only a couple hundred euros (if you buy it full-grown and freshly killed). the whole process is treated as a celebration, with shots of homemade plum brandy and all, and it really is enjoyable.

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iwbiek wrote: here, even if

iwbiek wrote:

here, even if someone lives in the city, they usually have at least one friend or relative in a village, usually more, and the custom is to bring each other produce. we have a small garden plot, and we haven't bought potatoes or onions in years. we also have six hens, so for about half the year we never buy eggs...hell, we give them away. it's also common for family members to get together and buy a pig or half a pig (if they haven't raised one or more themselves), then spend an afternoon butchering it, smoking their own bacon, rendering their own lard, making their own sausages. then you have a freezer full of meat for months, and the whole thing costs only a couple hundred euros (if you buy it full-grown and freshly killed). the whole process is treated as a celebration, with shots of homemade plum brandy and all, and it really is enjoyable.


That sounds like an awesome event.

My brother in Denver gets neighbors to chip in they go to a farm to pick up a slaughtered cow or two. Then they have a bbq together. Extras go in the deep freeze


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Beyond Saving wrote: If you

Beyond Saving wrote:
 If you are poor, why the hell are you even looking at chicken breasts?You don't need breast for curry and it is by far the most expensive part of the chicken. In fact, I don't use breast for curry now and I don't consider budget when choosing ingredients. I usually use a whole chicken debone it, then make stock with the bones as the base. Then chop the whole thing up. It is around $1 a pound. 

Actually I don't. Sometimes I'd get chicken, sometimes turkey, sometimes beef or pork, sometimes even fish. All depends on what's cheapest. Chicken breasts were brought up so that's where I made the comparison.
I'd also be more likely to make a pasta or stirfry than a curry, I went with curry because that's what was presented.

Beyond Saving wrote:
Also, you might have to face the reality that you might not be able to eat animal every meal-which we are told is unhealthy anyway. iwbiek's original point is that fresh fruit and vegetables are not expensive. That the conversation focused on the price of the chicken, I think proves his point.

If you eat as cheaply as you can for a number of meals, it allows you to eat better meals occasionally with the $ you saved. By eating a few meals of KD knockoffs and Mr. Noodles and a few cheap meals at McD's, you can then afford to eat a few proper meals as well.
Also, I covered fruits and vegetables. That everyone focused on the chicken proves MY point, not his.

Beyond Saving wrote:
Buy a pound of ground chicken for $2 and you can get 3-4 chicken patties that will be a hell of a lot better quality than a mcchicken.

I don't recall seeing ground chicken very often. I'm not actually entirely sure I've ever seen it. I've seen ground turkey, but only in the last few years.
At any rate, chicken alone does not a burger make. And I'd never eat a McChicken when I was penny pinching anyway. A jr McChicken maybe, but certainly not a $5+ burger of any kind.

Beyond Saving wrote:
If you are comparing chicken breast to mcds you have to at least compare it to their sandwiches that have something approaching breast which are all $6+. Otherwise you might as well talk about how cheap it is by comparing it to lobster prices.

Not when storage space is an issue, which is another thing I pointed out that has been ignored. The last place I lived came with a fridge that was very small. And broke constantly. The landlord rarely fixed it. I actually went almost a year without a fridge at all, before I was finally able to force him to fix it at a tribunal.

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
For just under $15 I can eat 5 meals at McD's. Your 2/3s of a day feeds me an extra day. That adds up pretty quickly.

As I mentioned, my portions are large. I'm betting you are a smaller guy right? The same mean for me will feed my wife for a week. She easily make 5-6 portions of the same meal. The key is the veggies. They are nutritious and filling, more than you'd get from McD.

I recall going to McD's a long time ago (high school). I'd eat 7-10 cheeseburgers, large fry, drink. I'd take two of the cheese burgers, then remove the bread from all the others and put the patties on the others, making two triple or quadruple stack burgers.

My portions make the difference in the calculations.

I range between 170 lb (when extreme penny pinching is in play) to 220 lb (when I'm eating well). I'm not particularly small, though I've never been more than a little chubby. My metabolism is very fast, so I can eat quite a bit. My portions depend entirely on my income and capability to store food. The most I can recall eating at once was a large pizza and half of another one. Though I was in my teens then. I'm not sure I could still eat that much in one sitting.

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digitalbeachbum wrote:Vastet

Vastet wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
For just under $15 I can eat 5 meals at McD's. Your 2/3s of a day feeds me an extra day. That adds up pretty quickly.

As I mentioned, my portions are large. I'm betting you are a smaller guy right? The same mean for me will feed my wife for a week. She easily make 5-6 portions of the same meal. The key is the veggies. They are nutritious and filling, more than you'd get from McD.

I recall going to McD's a long time ago (high school). I'd eat 7-10 cheeseburgers, large fry, drink. I'd take two of the cheese burgers, then remove the bread from all the others and put the patties on the others, making two triple or quadruple stack burgers.

My portions make the difference in the calculations.

I range between 170 lb (when extreme penny pinching is in play) to 220 lb (when I'm eating well). I'm not particularly small, though I've never been more than a little chubby. My metabolism is very fast, so I can eat quite a bit. My portions depend entirely on my income and capability to store food. The most I can recall eating at once was a large pizza and half of another one. Though I was in my teens then. I'm not sure I could still eat that much in one sitting.

I was at my max weight of 350 but I'm down now after eliminating all wheat products, I don't eat gluten any more. Every thing now is seed or rice, which has made a big difference for me.

When I was young I could eat two pizzas and chug a 12 pack. Now I eat four small slices and one bottle. The most I can eat in any sitting is about 8oz of chicken with veggies.


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Grats on losing weight. One

Grats on losing weight.

One thing I didn't mention is hypoglycemia. My doctors have told me that meat is one of the best ways to keep it in check, alongside foods rich in carbs like breads and pasta. I can substitute sugar (fruits included) in emergency scenarios, but it isn't a good move to depend on it because sugar doesn't stick around in the body for very long.

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Vastet wrote:Grats on losing

Vastet wrote:
Grats on losing weight. One thing I didn't mention is hypoglycemia. My doctors have told me that meat is one of the best ways to keep it in check, alongside foods rich in carbs like breads and pasta. I can substitute sugar (fruits included) in emergency scenarios, but it isn't a good move to depend on it because sugar doesn't stick around in the body for very long.

I have found that using protein as a way to keep my hunger pangs in check. Usually a larger portion of meat is all I need to keep me from snacking in between meals. I could eat a bag of chips and never feel filled, but if I eat a 6-8oz piece of chicken or steak I feel full. I also don't need to deal with all the unwanted carbs. It's sort of like the Atkin's diet but I don't go overboard and eat only meat.

I can't believe that for the last twenty five years I've been intolerant to gluten. It makes me  think about what might have been with my career in the Marines or with sports. I keep learning to eliminate various items from my diet even with the non-wheat strategy. I'm finding out gluten is in literally everything, including BBQ sauce, salad dressings, mayo, soda, beer, ice cream, soups... The list is huge.


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I'd never heard of the stuff

I'd never heard of the stuff until maybe 2 years ago. I was first introduced to it by some food product that said it was gluten free. As it happens, I need the stuff it's in, so I'm lucky I don't have to worry about it.

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Vastet wrote:I'd never heard

Vastet wrote:
I'd never heard of the stuff until maybe 2 years ago. I was first introduced to it by some food product that said it was gluten free. As it happens, I need the stuff it's in, so I'm lucky I don't have to worry about it.

I had gluten free pizza last night and it toally sucked. With out gluten bread, pizza and pasta is not the same.