The brutality of a free markets

Beyond Saving
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The brutality of a free markets

 By now, I'm sure you have probably read somewhere on the net at least in passing about the comments made by Donald Sterling, owner of the NBA Clippers and his subsequent ban from the NBA. Let me state that I know absolutely nothing about Sterling aside from the comments reported all over the place, so I have absolutely no basis to really know if he is racist or not. I didn't think his comments were anywhere near horrible enough to justify the attention this story has garnered, but I'm not easily offended by anything. For the sake of discussion, lets assume that Sterling is just as much of a racist asshole as he is being presented as by his detractors in the media. 

This guy, who supposedly despises black people for absolutely no good reason, has worked with black people to provide something beneficial for the community, has helped make many of them extremely rich, any "wage gap" in his team is clearly in the benefit of black employees over white and has apparently managed to hide that he is a racist asshole for over 30 years. All because his main priority has been personal greed. The almighty dollar was a powerful enough draw for him to ignore his hate.

 

Now that it has become very public, within a matter of days his long time business associates are doing everything they can to seperate themselves from him. Sure, if he really is a racist, they have no doubt known and probably ignored it because they simply don't give a fuck, but their motivation too is the dollar. They have to deal with the modern reality that being a racist is only slightly better than being a pedophile and maybe worse than being a rapist. He says he isn't selling, but it is probably only a matter of time before he will be forced to as the NBA refuses to do business with him. No civil rights law needed, no government coming in with armed police to force Sterling to sell or force him to stop being racist, or stop discrimination. No bureaucracy spending millions of dollars every year to investigate and harrass. All that is needed is for the average joe who watches the NBA to decide they don't want to watch a team/organization that supports racism (or rather for the NBA to believe that average joe might stop watching). Businesses will reflect the values of their customers, because customers patronize businesses that reflect their values, and will do so far more swiftly and more peacefully than government ever could. If you don't conform to the values expected by your customers, you can expect the reaction to be swift and quite brutal (financially speaking).

All that is needed is for people to voluntarily decide who they want to associate with and who they don't. If you want to make social change, persuade your fellow citizens that your morality is better, it is so much better than trying to seize political power and use government violence to force your morality onto others. Isn't that so much better than a government that thinks it has the power to throw you in jail for allowing customers to dance in your restaurant?

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Vastet
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Well tbh I don't think he

Well tbh I don't think he should have been banned from games or that pressure from the business should be trying to force him to sell. He didn't hold a press conference to rant about black people. He didn't screw black players over in favour of another skin colour (which is just as well for the fans and the players considering black players dominate the sport and he'd have the worst team in the league).
If I had someone recording every word I'd ever said there would be thousands of people who hated my guts and probably even a few who'd want to kill me for some shit I said in private to a buddy at some point in time. I don't think anyone is any different.
Regarding your article, it looks to me that all is going to turn out just fine for the guy. City makes stupid rule, acts on it, gets sued. I don't see the problem. Other than the voters. But they're still better off than Toronto, so I can't feel too bad for them.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote: By

Beyond Saving wrote:

 By now, I'm sure you have probably read somewhere on the net at least in passing about the comments made by Donald Sterling, owner of the NBA Clippers and his subsequent ban from the NBA. Let me state that I know absolutely nothing about Sterling aside from the comments reported all over the place, so I have absolutely no basis to really know if he is racist or not. I didn't think his comments were anywhere near horrible enough to justify the attention this story has garnered, but I'm not easily offended by anything. For the sake of discussion, lets assume that Sterling is just as much of a racist asshole as he is being presented as by his detractors in the media. 

This guy, who supposedly despises black people for absolutely no good reason, has worked with black people to provide something beneficial for the community, has helped make many of them extremely rich, any "wage gap" in his team is clearly in the benefit of black employees over white and has apparently managed to hide that he is a racist asshole for over 30 years. All because his main priority has been personal greed. The almighty dollar was a powerful enough draw for him to ignore his hate.

 

Now that it has become very public, within a matter of days his long time business associates are doing everything they can to seperate themselves from him. Sure, if he really is a racist, they have no doubt known and probably ignored it because they simply don't give a fuck, but their motivation too is the dollar. They have to deal with the modern reality that being a racist is only slightly better than being a pedophile and maybe worse than being a rapist. He says he isn't selling, but it is probably only a matter of time before he will be forced to as the NBA refuses to do business with him. No civil rights law needed, no government coming in with armed police to force Sterling to sell or force him to stop being racist, or stop discrimination. No bureaucracy spending millions of dollars every year to investigate and harrass. All that is needed is for the average joe who watches the NBA to decide they don't want to watch a team/organization that supports racism (or rather for the NBA to believe that average joe might stop watching). Businesses will reflect the values of their customers, because customers patronize businesses that reflect their values, and will do so far more swiftly and more peacefully than government ever could. If you don't conform to the values expected by your customers, you can expect the reaction to be swift and quite brutal (financially speaking).

All that is needed is for people to voluntarily decide who they want to associate with and who they don't. If you want to make social change, persuade your fellow citizens that your morality is better, it is so much better than trying to seize political power and use government violence to force your morality onto others. Isn't that so much better than a government that thinks it has the power to throw you in jail for allowing customers to dance in your restaurant?

 

No what is needed is for the rich to stop fucking thinking they are moral just because they have wealth. What you saw wasn't poor doing this, this was players and sponsers with MONEY and the power to stand up to this owner. The average middle class worker or working poor person is much more easily desposed by a business owner who cant afford to walk off  a job.

Now when the majority of the middle class and working poor start replicating this attitude DON'T BITCH.

"The free market" includes workers making owners rich and right now the majority climate by the top is ignorant to this fact.

I'd love to think this works in all cases but it does not in a climate of Koch brother types flooding the political system with money. I'd like to think it worked in all cases like you claim it did here. But when Duke Energy's solution to pay for their coal ash pollution is simply have the NC state senate make it legal to pollute more, at the expense of the health of society, I don't buy your bullshit story.

This was not the poor vs the rich in a free market, this was the well off vs the rich. But it is a lesson the rest of us can learn from.

You want a "free market"? I do too and the way to get government off your back and get more people off the government dime IS TO make their lives economically easier and put people before profits.

The only way to get this "free market" to work better, is to PAY MORE to workers and have the rich stop expecting the rest of us to compete for crappy wages and stop tax dodging.

But in any case, I do see this as an example of what the rest of society could do if we swamp the jaded rich with our own organization. But people like you will cry like a baby because you cant understand the difference between "can't" and "don't want to".

 

 

 

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Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 By now, I'm sure you have probably read somewhere on the net at least in passing about the comments made by Donald Sterling, owner of the NBA Clippers and his subsequent ban from the NBA. Let me state that I know absolutely nothing about Sterling aside from the comments reported all over the place, so I have absolutely no basis to really know if he is racist or not. I didn't think his comments were anywhere near horrible enough to justify the attention this story has garnered, but I'm not easily offended by anything. For the sake of discussion, lets assume that Sterling is just as much of a racist asshole as he is being presented as by his detractors in the media. 

This guy, who supposedly despises black people for absolutely no good reason, has worked with black people to provide something beneficial for the community, has helped make many of them extremely rich, any "wage gap" in his team is clearly in the benefit of black employees over white and has apparently managed to hide that he is a racist asshole for over 30 years. All because his main priority has been personal greed. The almighty dollar was a powerful enough draw for him to ignore his hate.

 

Now that it has become very public, within a matter of days his long time business associates are doing everything they can to seperate themselves from him. Sure, if he really is a racist, they have no doubt known and probably ignored it because they simply don't give a fuck, but their motivation too is the dollar. They have to deal with the modern reality that being a racist is only slightly better than being a pedophile and maybe worse than being a rapist. He says he isn't selling, but it is probably only a matter of time before he will be forced to as the NBA refuses to do business with him. No civil rights law needed, no government coming in with armed police to force Sterling to sell or force him to stop being racist, or stop discrimination. No bureaucracy spending millions of dollars every year to investigate and harrass. All that is needed is for the average joe who watches the NBA to decide they don't want to watch a team/organization that supports racism (or rather for the NBA to believe that average joe might stop watching). Businesses will reflect the values of their customers, because customers patronize businesses that reflect their values, and will do so far more swiftly and more peacefully than government ever could. If you don't conform to the values expected by your customers, you can expect the reaction to be swift and quite brutal (financially speaking).

All that is needed is for people to voluntarily decide who they want to associate with and who they don't. If you want to make social change, persuade your fellow citizens that your morality is better, it is so much better than trying to seize political power and use government violence to force your morality onto others. Isn't that so much better than a government that thinks it has the power to throw you in jail for allowing customers to dance in your restaurant?

 

No what is needed is for the rich to stop fucking thinking they are moral just because they have wealth. What you saw wasn't poor doing this, this was players and sponsers with MONEY and the power to stand up to this owner. The average middle class worker or working poor person is much more easily desposed by a business owner who cant afford to walk off  a job.

Now when the majority of the middle class and working poor start replicating this attitude DON'T BITCH.

"The free market" includes workers making owners rich and right now the majority climate by the top is ignorant to this fact.

I'd love to think this works in all cases but it does not in a climate of Koch brother types flooding the political system with money. I'd like to think it worked in all cases like you claim it did here. But when Duke Energy's solution to pay for their coal ash pollution is simply have the NC state senate make it legal to pollute more, at the expense of the health of society, I don't buy your bullshit story.

This was not the poor vs the rich in a free market, this was the well off vs the rich. But it is a lesson the rest of us can learn from.

You want a "free market"? I do too and the way to get government off your back and get more people off the government dime IS TO make their lives economically easier and put people before profits.

The only way to get this "free market" to work better, is to PAY MORE to workers and have te rich stop expecting the rest of us to compete for crappy wages and stop tax dodging.

But in any case, I do see this as an example of what the rest of society could do if we swamp the jaded rich with our own organization. But people like you will cry like a baby because you cant understand the difference between "can't" and "don't want to".

 

 

Sheesh, you get your way and you still piss and moan. If you don't want to compete forcrappy wages, use your current unemployed status to compete in a field that has better wages.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Beyond Saving
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Vastet wrote:Well tbh I

Vastet wrote:
Well tbh I don't think he should have been banned from games or that pressure from the business should be trying to force him to sell. He didn't hold a press conference to rant about black people. He didn't screw black players over in favour of another skin colour (which is just as well for the fans and the players considering black players dominate the sport and he'd have the worst team in the league). If I had someone recording every word I'd ever said there would be thousands of people who hated my guts and probably even a few who'd want to kill me for some shit I said in private to a buddy at some point in time. I don't think anyone is any different. Regarding your article, it looks to me that all is going to turn out just fine for the guy. City makes stupid rule, acts on it, gets sued. I don't see the problem. Other than the voters. But they're still better off than Toronto, so I can't feel too bad for them.

I agree, but the decision was doubtless made on the basis of pleasing the consumers. I can't really fault the NBA for the decision. Their association only benefits to the extent that every member is able to bring in consumers, a substantial portion of which are black and probably none of them are members of the KKK. I wish people didn't react like this, but I am as unwilling to support a law forcing the NBA to associate with Sterling as I am to support a law forcing him to sell the team (a suggestion I have heard some thugs seriously suggest)

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


EXC
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Beyond Saving wrote:This

Beyond Saving wrote:

This guy, who supposedly despises black people for absolutely no good reason,
 Here is the irony of the story. Mr. Sterling is not really racist, it is the society that condemns him that has the problem with race.  Mr. Sterling made his billions by not renting properties to people unless they fit a racial profile. So he would only rent to Koreans in Koreatown, whites and jews in Beverly Hills, etc... Obviously this strategy worked well for him. It's the people that rented the properties that were racist and he knew this and took advantage of it. 
Beyond Saving wrote:
has worked with black people to provide something beneficial for the community, has helped make many of them extremely rich, any "wage gap" in his team is clearly in the benefit of black employees over white and has apparently managed to hide that he is a racist asshole for over 30 years. All because his main priority has been personal greed. The almighty dollar was a powerful enough draw for him to ignore his hate.
 Again, no evidence of racism. He likes seeing the races kept seperate and then make money off it. To me this is surreal, society is dumping all their anger on this guy, when its the people doing the dumping that have the real issues.

 

The real scandal with Mr. Sterling is how he was able to make billions by taking advantage of racism in the public and the LA housing shortage.

 

 BTW, when are we going to have racial quotes and affimative action in the NBA? Its also obviously a sexist league too with no female players.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:  BTW, when are

EXC wrote:

 

 BTW, when are we going to have racial quotes and affimative action in the NBA?....

 

 

   I've thought the same thing.   Professional athletes are simply employees.  They are hired and fired ...but the major if not exclusive factor in their job security is their performance not their ethnic category ( as it should be ).    That performance-based hiring principal should be the only one that matters, not demographics. 

 

To the "Social Justice / Quota" fans that is utter folly.    But yes EXC it shows a complete lack of consistency that certain professions are allowed to slide by if "equality" is so utterly important.