Could you climb Mt Everest every single day?

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Could you climb Mt Everest every single day?

Just got finished watching another incredible show on science on the National Geographic Channel. "Light The Ocean". Our ocean currents are extremely complex and give rise to the extremely tiny microscopic food sources that without a churning ocean, or currents life on this planet would not have evolved to such a complex degree. One of the more amazing things to me is how tiny our surface mountains are compared to the underwater mountain ranges. Everest is a midget compared to the height of some of these underwater ranges.

One underwater canyon as deep as the grand canyon provides a haven for krill in the Monterey California bay. These tiny species feed on the surface at night but basically swim to the bottom during the day for cover, because the bottom is dark. They do this EVERY day, the equal distance of a human climbing Mt Everest. Our planet is amazing.

I think it is much more awe inspiring to know all this was not caused and simply a giant weather pattern. To think of this as being a product of a magic man cheapens the reality that we really are lucky, even with all the bad that happens. To think of all the variables in the history of this planet, one meteor here or there, or no impact causing the moon, and life never would have happened. Reality is much more fucking awesome than stupid comic books humans make to placate their childish emotions.

 

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There is absolutely no

There is absolutely no comparison between a person climbing Mt. Everest and oceanic creature's swimming great vertical distances. A truer comparison would be a person travelling x km's horizontally.

Your ignorance and sheer stupidity are so extreme that you actually make atheists defend religion. If there were a war, and you were on the side of the atheists (and they didn't immediately kick you out), I'd fight with the christians. At least until all the irrational idiots like you were weeded out

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like i've said, the fuckin'


like i've said, the fuckin' asshole should stick to hiding behind bob spence, like he did with me a couple months ago.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote: like i've

iwbiek wrote:

like i've said, the fuckin' asshole should stick to hiding behind bob spence, like he did with me a couple months ago.

Um he is my best friend, I talk to him just about every other day on Skype. Have been for the past 7 years. You converse with him a handful of times and think you know him? Since you won't take my word for it, next time you "talk" with him ask him if he thinks I am a "foaming at the mouth fascist out to stick all theists in ovens", then when he says "no", you going to ignore him too just because you don't like my message?

Why don't you stop fancying yourself as the hero for a second and actually read Dawkins "The God Delusion", actauall read Harris's "The End Of Faith" and Victor Stenger's  "God The Failed Hypothesis" and  his "The New Atheism". But what would they know "TEACH" they are only scientists.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Vastet wrote:There is

Vastet wrote:
There is absolutely no comparison between a person climbing Mt. Everest and oceanic creature's swimming great vertical distances. A truer comparison would be a person travelling x km's horizontally. Your ignorance and sheer stupidity are so extreme that you actually make atheists defend religion. If there were a war, and you were on the side of the atheists (and they didn't immediately kick you out), I'd fight with the christians. At least until all the irrational idiots like you were weeded out

 

Oh boy, way to miss the point. The point is humans stupidly think we are an apex when we are merely ONE species. Ok, how about the water bear? Don't know what that is? Look it up. There have been 5 mass extinctions in our earth's history. The water bear has survived all 5. Humans the way we evolved ARE higly unlikely to survive what anything like what killed the dinosaurs, especially when we are not focused on issues of polution, and burning fossil fuels that are causing climate change, and we don't even have a meteor defense system. And as long as you think it is ok to coddle the crutches of the past kalideoscope thinking will keep humans far too much stuck in primitive thought and will continue us from  our species problem solving.

 

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:The point is

Brian37 wrote:

The point is humans stupidly think we are an apex when we are merely ONE species.

By definition, an apex predator is ONE species. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

 

Humans the way we evolved ARE higly unlikely to survive what anything like what killed the dinosaurs, especially when we are not focused on issues of polution, and burning fossil fuels that are causing climate change, and we don't even have a meteor defense system.

Neither do tardigrades, or any other species that has ever existed for that matter. We are the first species with the ability to even conceive of something like a meteor defense system. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

And as long as you think it is ok to coddle the crutches of the past kalideoscope thinking will keep humans far too much stuck in primitive thought and will continue us from  our species problem solving.

Is it religion that is blocking the construction of a meteor defense system?!? That is news to me. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

The point is humans stupidly think we are an apex when we are merely ONE species.

By definition, an apex predator is ONE species. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

 

Humans the way we evolved ARE higly unlikely to survive what anything like what killed the dinosaurs, especially when we are not focused on issues of polution, and burning fossil fuels that are causing climate change, and we don't even have a meteor defense system.

Neither do tardigrades, or any other species that has ever existed for that matter. We are the first species with the ability to even conceive of something like a meteor defense system. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

And as long as you think it is ok to coddle the crutches of the past kalideoscope thinking will keep humans far too much stuck in primitive thought and will continue us from  our species problem solving.

Is it religion that is blocking the construction of a meteor defense system?!? That is news to me. 

You might certianly argue that science can work on it and is right now, but imagine if our species wasn't wasting all it's resources on religious beefs how much quicker we could make those things happen. But to claim religion is not a distraction is quite nieve.

Imagine if all the money Muslims pump into trying to wipe Isreal off the face of the planet, and Imagin if Isreal could spend it's money on our common interest,  instead of claiming "chosen people" to excuse carpet bombing of Muslims. Imagine if our liberals here wouldn't have to waste money trying to counter religious attacks on women's rights, or having to use it to defend gay rights.  Emagine if those resources were used for problem solving for our colective species, how much quicker we could obtain it.

I find it ironic you'd rightfully call two Buddhists stupidly lighting themselves up stupid and then blast me here. It is precisely becuase humans default to absurd claims our problem solving as a species more often than not gets hindered.

We don't use kaliedeoscopes to look at the stars, and we should not be using religion to view our human interactions with each other. Understanding why people believe is not an excuse to justify the belief itself. Othewise gas based sucide is good science.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:You might

Brian37 wrote:

You might certianly argue that science can work on it and is right now, but imagine if our species wasn't wasting all it's resources on religious beefs how much quicker we could make those things happen. But to claim religion is not a distraction is quite nieve.

Without christianity, it would have taken another several hundred years for capitalism and democratic republican ideas to be implemented. No doubt, the industrial revolution would have been significantly delayed as it has been in non-christian cultures. It is because of imperialism, evangelism, conflict and even religious oppression that created the conditions that spurred such innovations. Religion is a motivator for many people and it can be a motivator for the good as well as the bad. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Imagine if all the money Muslims pump into trying to wipe Isreal off the face of the planet, and Imagin if Isreal could spend it's money on our common interest,  instead of claiming "chosen people" to excuse carpet bombing of Muslims.

Israels work with us on weapons technology will no doubt play a major role in the development of any system that could intercept and destroy a meteor. Israeli made missle interception technology is the best in the world and the same priciples would be needed to try to intercept a meteor. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Imagine if our liberals here wouldn't have to waste money trying to counter religious attacks on women's rights, or having to use it to defend gay rights.  Emagine if those resources were used for problem solving for our colective species, how much quicker we could obtain it.

Is countering religious attacks more important than protecting the entire species? Seems to me that equal rights is a moot point if we are extinct. Why do you support wasting all this money when it could be spent on protecting us from meteors? Our government spends over $3 TRILLION a year on things that are not at all related to meteor protecting. Imagine if we put all that money into it, how much faster would it develop? (This argument is complete bullshit and just meant to mirror yours. In the real world, simply throwing money at developing a system to intercept meteors is not going to speed up the development of the technology. Money alone is not nearly as powerful as you seem to believe, which is why every program your side conceives of is doomed to failure since it inevitably boils down to throwing money at a problem) 

 

Brian37 wrote:

I find it ironic you'd rightfully call two Buddhists stupidly lighting themselves up stupid and then blast me here. It is precisely becuase humans default to absurd claims our problem solving as a species more often than not gets hindered.

The difference is that I fully support the Buddhists right to be stupid. If they want to light themselves on fire, they are welcome to do so and I'm not going to lift a finger to stop them. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

We don't use kaliedeoscopes to look at the stars, and we should not be using religion to view our human interactions with each other. Understanding why people believe is not an excuse to justify the belief itself. Othewise gas based sucide is good science.

Gas based suicide is good science. You want to commit suicide, gas is one way that works. Since many human interactions and motivations stem from religion, it is critical to understand religion in order to interpret and/or predict people's actions. The reality is that no human operates 100% rationally, relies 100% on facts or even really tries to act in such a manner. To imagine that eliminating religion completely is going to get rid of irrationality or stop some major waste of resources is ridiculous. 

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Quote:Without christianity,

Quote:
Without christianity, it would have taken another several hundred years for capitalism

Then where did the knocking the change tables over come from? It would seem to me that business would have had to exist for the story to get into the bible to put people over business first.

 

And will you please get rid of the stupid notion that "capitalism" is a form of government. Gaddafi was a billionaire who owned stock in GE, if he was not a "captialist" why would he invest in the private sector?  Al the cheap crap a Americans buy are a result of private companies existing in China.

Christianity did not invent the open market. Humans had pleanty of points prior where they had open markets.

Our modern age of enlightenment that lead to the rise of the civil west is in spite of religion, not because of it.

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Quote:The difference is that

Quote:
The difference is that I fully support the Buddhists right to be stupid.

No one is talking about human rights from a law perspective.

If you personally had a brother or sister in your family that one day came up to you and said "Hey I am going to light myself on fire to make a point", would it be a human rights issue for you or would you stop and think "um no please don't do that it sounds stupid to me".

There is a huge difference between human rights, and the logic that leads people to come to bad conclusions.

You have the right to staple you nuts to the wall but I wouldn't advise it.

If you had a friend who kept repeating "The Yankees won the Superbowl", would that be an issue of rights, or an issue of facts?

Religion does not nor will ever replace evolution or evolutionary psychology. What lead those poor saps to needlessly light themselves on fire isn't a matter of their rights, but their bad logic.

No one is making it a rights issue so knock it off.

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Quote:Without

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
Without christianity, it would have taken another several hundred years for capitalism

Then where did the knocking the change tables over come from? It would seem to me that business would have had to exist for the story to get into the bible to put people over business first.

"Capitalism" is not a synonym for "business".

 

Brian37 wrote:

And will you please get rid of the stupid notion that "capitalism" is a form of government.

I didn't say it was. Which is why I listed "democratic republic" seperately, which is a form of government.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

Gaddafi was a billionaire who owned stock in GE, if he was not a "captialist" why would he invest in the private sector?  Al the cheap crap a Americans buy are a result of private companies existing in China.

Because "capitalist" is not synonomous with owning stock or investing. Owning stock, investing and even a private sector are features that exist in most economic systems. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Christianity did not invent the open market. Humans had pleanty of points prior where they had open markets.

Our modern age of enlightenment that lead to the rise of the civil west is in spite of religion, not because of it.

No, it didn't invent anything. It did spread ideas, ideals and led to the widespread implementation of those ideas. Speeches from the pulpit are without a doubt among the most influential speeches ever delivered and few political goals good or bad have ever been achieved without them. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:If you

Brian37 wrote:

If you personally had a brother or sister in your family that one day came up to you and said "Hey I am going to light myself on fire to make a point", would it be a human rights issue for you or would you stop and think "um no please don't do that it sounds stupid to me".

I'd tell him he is a fucking idiot and loan him a match. 

 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Religion does not nor will ever replace evolution or evolutionary psychology. What lead those poor saps to needlessly light themselves on fire isn't a matter of their rights, but their bad logic.

Lawnmowers do not nor will ever replace dishwashers or laundry machines. Your statement is true, but has absolutely no point since replacing evolution or evolutionary psychology isn't the purpose of religion.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:You converse

Brian37 wrote:
You converse with him a handful of times and think you know him?

Where did he say that asshole? Quit making shit up that has absolutely no relevance. Quit making shit up period.

Brian37 wrote:
Why don't you stop fancying yourself as the hero for a second and actually read Dawkins "The God Delusion", actauall read Harris's "The End Of Faith" and Victor Stenger's  "God The Failed Hypothesis" and  his "The New Atheism".

Unlike morons and theists and hero worshippers, some of us are smart enough to have made our own conclusions. Why should we read a book written to convert people or preach to the choir? I can guarantee you that I wouldn't learn anything worth mentioning reading any of those books. They weren't written for me. Would you read a book that had nothing inside you didn't already know?

Brian37 wrote:
Oh boy, way to miss the point.

Look who's talking.

Brian37 wrote:
The point is humans stupidly think we are an apex when we are merely ONE species

One species that happens to hold more power than every other species combined. By definition we are the apex. How many of your micro-organisms could climb Mt. Everest? How many can drill into the ground? How many can kill any plant or animal? How many can heal broken bones and conduct surgery? How many can launch themselves into space? How many can communicate with others of their species the world over?

Brian37 wrote:
There have been 5 mass extinctions in our earth's history. The water bear has survived all 5.

So? They've been around billions of years and they still haven't started farming or developing a language. All they do is eat and reproduce. Who cares if they've survived a few calamities.

Brian37 wrote:
Humans the way we evolved ARE higly unlikely to survive what anything like what killed the dinosaurs

One day the Earth will be free floating plasma within the sun. All your water bears will be vapourised. Only the descendants of humanity might escape that final end. I'd say their surviving a few rocks and volcanos pales in comparison to having even the potential of surviving the absolute destruction of the entire planet.

Brian37 wrote:
And as long as you think it is ok to coddle the crutches of the past kalideoscope thinking will keep humans far too much stuck in primitive thought and will continue us from  our species problem solving.

Making up lies about religion is more likely to keep religion going than accepting the truth about religion. You do far more to perpetuate theism than I.

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Brian37 wrote:"foaming at


Brian37 wrote:
ask him if he thinks I am a "foaming at the mouth fascist out to stick all theists in ovens"


who are you quoting here? certainly not me. i've never said anything even CLOSE to that about you, neither to you nor to anyone else.

and you know that. but you're a liar.

oh, and just so we're straight, you didn't specifically point out my comments to bob and tell him something along the lines of, "hey, this guy is full of shit. you should go show him what for." is that what you expect me to believe?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:If you

Brian37 wrote:
If you personally had a brother or sister in your family that one day came up to you and said "Hey I am going to light myself on fire to make a point", would it be a human rights issue for you or would you stop and think "um no please don't do that it sounds stupid to me"



you're a fucking ignorant, callous, narcissistic, shrill little pissant piece of shit. how dare you even write about those martyrs and include their memories in your tirades, as you are shit and everything you write is shit. you literally turn the english language to shit just by uttering it. you have NO. FUCKING. CLUE. why those brave, committed monks in vietnam did what they did. guess what? a brave dissident did the exact same thing in front of soviet tanks in prague's wenceslas square in 1968, with NO RELIGIOUS MOTIVATION WHATSOEVER. sometimes someone decides to selflessly call the world's attention to TRUE brutalization through extreme, sacrificial means. you are a leech, a parasite. you only WISH you had the balls to be a martyr like jan palach, dying for your precious dawkins bullshit, so you come on here, link to news articles, and try to associate yourself with people in those parts of the world who truly suffer for their stance against religious fascism, in order to bask in the reflected light of their glory. then you turn around and try to make a negative example of those bhikshus who immolated themselves in the cause of peace in vietnam, just because you perceive it had a religious element to it. you don't have as much courage as one of those monks had in the nail of his little finger. you're fucking pathetic.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
If you personally had a brother or sister in your family that one day came up to you and said "Hey I am going to light myself on fire to make a point", would it be a human rights issue for you or would you stop and think "um no please don't do that it sounds stupid to me"

you're a fucking ignorant, callous, narcissistic, shrill little pissant piece of shit. how dare you even write about those martyrs and include their memories in your tirades, as you are shit and everything you write is shit. you literally turn the english language to shit just by uttering it. you have NO. FUCKING. CLUE. why those brave, committed monks in vietnam did what they did. guess what? a brave dissident did the exact same thing in front of soviet tanks in prague's wenceslas square in 1968, with NO RELIGIOUS MOTIVATION WHATSOEVER. sometimes someone decides to selflessly call the world's attention to TRUE brutalization through extreme, sacrificial means. you are a leech, a parasite. you only WISH you had the balls to be a martyr like jan palach, dying for your precious dawkins bullshit, so you come on here, link to news articles, and try to associate yourself with people in those parts of the world who truly suffer for their stance against religious fascism, in order to bask in the reflected light of their glory. then you turn around and try to make a negative example of those bhikshus who immolated themselves in the cause of peace in vietnam, just because you perceive it had a religious element to it. you don't have as much courage as one of those monks had in the nail of his little finger. you're fucking pathetic.

What's with all this spewing all this extreme hateful bullshit at Brian? Have you nothing better to do?

I myself am inclined to query how much actions such as self-immolation ultimately contributed to advancing their cause. It certainly attracted attention, and I'm not saying it did nothing to help their side, but maybe carrying on living so you had more time to actually find something more positive to do could have been at least as effective. This is incontrast to the act of falling on a grenade in wartime to save your comrades, where the act is intended to directly protect others.

To accuse Brian of wanting to "bask in the reflected light of their glory" is just ridiculous.

In the case of the Buddhists, there certainly is a "religious element" to it, as there is a long history of such practices in various Buddhist traditions. And in other cases where there is no specifically "religious" aspect, religion has certianly contributed to spreading the "meme".
 

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The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

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BobSpence wrote:What's with

BobSpence wrote:
What's with all this spewing all this extreme hateful bullshit at Brian? Have you nothing better to do?





not at 11 p.m. on easter sunday, no. and if you can't look at brian's and my exchanges over the last year or so and realize why i lose my patience, then you're not really looking for an answer. he has consistently and intentionally misrepresented my position (even he can't possibly be so stupid as to believe i've accused him of wanting to end theism by force, either implicitly or explicitly). he has addressed very few of my actual points, but just keeps resorting to calling me PC and saying i'm just offended by his cursing, even though i've thoroughly dismantled both those accusations.




besides, poor persecuted brian is the one always telling people who come here and get offended to stay out of the kitchen if they can't stand the heat. now suddenly i'm being too hard on him? if you take a look at some of the threads from recent months, you'll see he's generally the one following me around and butting in on discussions i'm having with other members, calling me a hypocrite for criticizing religion and so forth. i've actually tried to avoid him in the past and he's so butthurt from the thorough reaming he's been given by me and several other people on this site that he won't let it go.




if you don't believe that self-immolation has any efficacy, fine, but i object to anyone, certainly an ignoramus like brian, cavalierly holding up those who did it as examples of delusion. no one here has any inkling of the circumstances that drove them to that, including you, regardless of your time in southeast asia. buddhists of any "tradition" never take a notion to burn themselves simply to acquire merit, and to reduce such an act to empty terms like "meme" is just plain fucking snide.




but that's as may be. i only made the above points so that i couldn't be accused of dodging yours. that being said, if you ever want to have a serious discussion about something, fine, but i'm not engaging in this george and lenny dialectic you have going on with brian anymore.



"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:BobSpence

iwbiek wrote:
BobSpence wrote:
What's with all this spewing all this extreme hateful bullshit at Brian? Have you nothing better to do?


not at 11 p.m. on easter sunday, no. and if you can't look at brian's and my exchanges over the last year or so and realize why i lose my patience, then you're not really looking for an answer. he has consistently and intentionally misrepresented my position (even he can't possibly be so stupid as to believe i've accused him of wanting to end theism by force, either implicitly or explicitly). he has addressed very few of my actual points, but just keeps resorting to calling me PC and saying i'm just offended by his cursing, even though i've thoroughly dismantled both those accusations.

besides, poor persecuted brian is the one always telling people who come here and get offended to stay out of the kitchen if they can't stand the heat. now suddenly i'm being too hard on him? if you take a look at some of the threads from recent months, you'll see he's generally the one following me around and butting in on discussions i'm having with other members, calling me a hypocrite for criticizing religion and so forth. i've actually tried to avoid him in the past and he's so butthurt from the thorough reaming he's been given by me and several other people on this site that he won't let it go.

if you don't believe that self-immolation has any efficacy, fine, but i object to anyone, certainly an ignoramus like brian, cavalierly holding up those who did it as examples of delusion. no one here has any inkling of the circumstances that drove them to that, including you, regardless of your time in southeast asia. buddhists of any "tradition" never take a notion to burn themselves simply to acquire merit, and to reduce such an act to empty terms like "meme" is just plain fucking snide.

but that's as may be. i only made the above points so that i couldn't be accused of dodging yours. that being said, if you ever want to have a serious discussion about something, fine, but i'm not engaging in this george and lenny dialectic you have going on with brian anymore.

You don't get it. Regardless of those Monks intent or bravery, or what you think they did right, shouldn't the world work towards better conflict resolution skills so we don't have more bittersweet moments thinking about the heroism of those we have empathy for?

And as far as feeling pursicuted, that makes me laugh. This all started when you had a childish kneejerk reaction to me agreeing with Hitchens in calling religion a poison(as a distraction, a flaw in our evolution, our unawarness of ourselves). Then after quoting three separate scientists. Dawkins explaining why god claims are a delusion. Harris who explains what can religiously motivate someone to violence and two of Victor Stenger's books that say that science DOES have something to say about god claims AND that our morality is evolutionary, you got upset.

If anyone here is playing maryter it is you. You come across to me as as the well intended peacemaker thinking "asshole brian" is being a meany and a bully to religious people and religion, childishly in my estimation not understanding why I agree with all those athors above, who most certainly know way more than I do 3 of them PHD scientiests.

Now once again. In the scope of the entire history of our universe, we are a mere blip. OUR species problem is that we focus too much of our attention on our clubs. It is an artifical placebo, that only has a very tribal selfish benefit to the group. That part does work, but far to often the poison religion is is that it distracts us away from our universal existence. It sets up in group vs out group. Once we understand ourselves more widely as part of nature and not above nature, once we undersatand that our ride is finite and that to the cosmos we are NOT special, our focus can be better shifted to the problems we have collectively as ONE species and not tribal religions or borders or nationalism. And contless times in many ways I have clearly stated I have been under no illusion that grouping will go away in evolution.

 AND NONE of those authors including Hitchens would have ever claimed you could get rid of grouping. THE POISON is our entirety that we are unaware of what a distraction it is, and the more we are aware of it, WE can have better conflict resolution, even if not perfect.  There is no such thing as a utopia. So please stop playing schoolyard Maryter when all I have been doing is pointing out our evolutionary flaw that distracts us from better group interactions with other groups.

 

And another thing after name dropping Bob you got upset when I told you I knew him better than you do. Now you want to invite him to have a separate discussion with him separately after equating us to a "Lenny and George"?

Oh and I can stand the heat FYI.

 

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Beyond Saving wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
Lawnmowers do not nor will ever replace dishwashers or laundry machines. Your statement is true, but has absolutely no point since replacing evolution or evolutionary psychology isn't the purpose of religion. 

Religion certainly isn't attempting to replace evolution or evolutionary psychology. Never claimed it was.  But it is a horrible way to view the world, and it is a distraction away from the real tools of understanding science and our own behavior on an evolutionary scale. Why view the world through a kaliedoscope when you have a telescope? The only "perpose" of a sugar pill is to fool yourself into stimulating the pleasure part of your brain.

Do you still view the sun with "Ra" based sun theory? Do you view lightening through "Thor" based lightening theory? Please tell me what mistake those past ancient cultures made in falsely believing those things humans today are not being made now by the humans that  still believe today?

 

 

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BobSpence wrote:What's with

BobSpence wrote:
What's with all this spewing all this extreme hateful bullshit at Brian?

He has well earned it. If you'd like to see your friend relieved of the pressure you'd do better teaching him not to be such a hypocritical lying piece of shit then you would further antagonising the people he's worked extremely hard at alienating for years.

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Brian37 wrote:And another

Brian37 wrote:
And another thing after name dropping Bob you got upset when I told you I knew him better than you do.



what!? the ONLY fucking thing i EVER said to you about bob was that he had a more balanced view of buddhism than you and actually knew a thing or two about it. i FREELY ADMIT you know him better than me. i don't know him AT ALL. i NEVER CLAIMED I DID.


Brian37 wrote:
Now you want to invite him to have a separate discussion with him separately after equating us to a "Lenny and George"?



god, it's so useless telling you anything. you have ZERO comprehension skills. i'm NOT inviting him to ANYTHING. quite frankly, i find his views on religion not much more mature or nuanced than yours, it's just he's more willing to admit he might not have all the facts straight all the time, whereas i have yet to see you even halfheartedly admit you MIGHT be wrong about some of the shit you mouth off about.


what i OBVIOUSLY meant is that i KNOW he's approaching me with an agenda, i.e. sticking up for lenny. as long as that is the case, i'm not INTERESTED in having a discussion with him. quite frankly, it was a diplomatic way of telling him to fuck off.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


BobSpence
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 Looking at what he's

 Looking at what he's been

Looking at what he's been writing, I see no justification whatever for the description "hypocritical lying piece of shit".  Sure, he may get some of the science a bit wrong at times, but that is not "lying". The language of your response is far more deserving of criticism than his, IMHO. At worst, he displays an understandable frustration with the all the irrational shit used by Theists to justify their delusional beliefs. Like their cherry-picking of 'evidence' or arguments, ie using stuff which seems to support their side and ignoring stuff  which doesn't. I continue to try and correct him when he gets the science wrong, with some success. 

 

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BobSpence wrote: Looking at

BobSpence wrote:

 Looking at what he's been

Looking at what he's been writing, I see no justification whatever for the description "hypocritical lying piece of shit".



he is a liar because he consistently and willfully misrepresents my position. he constantly says that i accuse him of wanting to end religion by force, that i'm offended by the language he uses about religion (i've only ever objected to "poison"--not because i find it offensive, but because it's vapid), and that i treat religion with kid gloves and think everybody else should too. he is a liar because he knows none of these things are true, yet he continues to pull this shit because he has nothing else of any substance to counter me with.


he has also resorted time and again to the childish tactic (then again, that's an insult to most children) of following me onto multiple threads and berating me for my avatar--which is doubly laughable because his knowledge of marxism and the history of the communist world is about as substantial as his knowledge of religion. i wonder if he berates teenagers at the mall for wearing che guevara t-shirts? i'm guessing not.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:Religion

Brian37 wrote:

Religion certainly isn't attempting to replace evolution or evolutionary psychology. Never claimed it was.  But it is a horrible way to view the world, and it is a distraction away from the real tools of understanding science and our own behavior on an evolutionary scale.

It is only a "distraction" if you plan on doing actual scientific research. For the vast majority of people, it doesn't matter of hill of beans what they believe. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Why view the world through a kaliedoscope when you have a telescope? The only "perpose" of a sugar pill is to fool yourself into stimulating the pleasure part of your brain.

And stimulating the pleasure part of your brain is bad.... why? Why do you think many people engage in drinking and recreational drug use? Sometimes, the kaliedoscope looks a hell of a lot better than the telescope. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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BobSpence wrote: Looking at

BobSpence wrote:

 Looking at what he's been

Looking at what he's been writing, I see no justification whatever for the description "hypocritical lying piece of shit".  Sure, he may get some of the science a bit wrong at times, but that is not "lying". The language of your response is far more deserving of criticism than his, IMHO. At worst, he displays an understandable frustration with the all the irrational shit used by Theists to justify their delusional beliefs. Like their cherry-picking of 'evidence' or arguments, ie using stuff which seems to support their side and ignoring stuff  which doesn't. I continue to try and correct him when he gets the science wrong, with some success. 

 

Then you haven't been reading enough. He is a lying hypocritacal piece of shit, LITERALLY.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.