Join The Dark Side, why I hate Obi Wan now.

Brian37
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Join The Dark Side, why I hate Obi Wan now.

Yes it is just a movie, so read this with a grain of salt.

 

There isn't much that has changed in pop culture. I may catch some flack for the following, but I have had a change of position on the original Star Wars series. Of course it is the old standard of "Good vs Evil". And yes kind motifs of being there for your friends, loyalty and standing up to the bully. However, it still reflects the popularity of religion, even if fiction.

In one scene Luke is practicing his light saber skills on the Falcon, Han makes rightful skeptic remarks to the idea of religion. Obi Wan tells him to "trust his feelings", then puts on the blast shield and successfully while blind, defends himself from the mechanical training ball. I really hate this constant marketing in all media of playing off of people's feelings.

In real training, such as the Hudson river landing, it wasn't "feelings" that got that plane down safely, but training, and even mechanical redundancy that pilots are trained in pre flight simulators to simulate such events prior to the reality of one actually happening.

But, the most insidious meme in "Return of the Jedi", smacks of similarities of Saul, being a former monster whom becomes good and forgiven and becomes Paul. Darth Vader from the first movie, is a dictator, genocidal and even kills those who fail him, not once, but several times. In the final minutes in the last battle between Luke and Darth Vadar, Darth realizes his mistake and turns on his own evil master and kills him to save Luke. Luke then tries to save him. Sounds nice.

It is one thing to realize you have hurt others. It is another to let your brains fall out and forgive a monster. This move reflects the same horrible logic of the god/s of Abraham. But Brian, it is just fiction. I will still give it credit for it's time being a visual masterpiece, well acted, and brilliant music score. But I cannot bring myself to value the same old crap of distorting human morality to comic book levels. I cannot value a meme that teaches us to go with our feelings. The Death Star alone, paints technology as evil, and is so dominating in that series it gets you to forget that the heros are also using technology to defeat them.

No, don't "trust your feelings". It is ok to have them, but we don't need mass media telling us in any form that "feelings" constitute truth. I have come to hate Obi Wan as much as Darth Vadar, just like I hate both God and Satan.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote:Yes it is just

Brian37 wrote:

Yes it is just a movie, so read this with a grain of salt.

Salt ready (and even in a manly glass)

 

 

 

Brian37 wrote:

There isn't much that has changed in pop culture. I may catch some flack for the following, but I have had a change of position on the original Star Wars series. Of course it is the old standard of "Good vs Evil". And yes kind motifs of being there for your friends, loyalty and standing up to the bully. However, it still reflects the popularity of religion, even if fiction.

POISON! Yes, pop culture reflects what is popular (hence the "pop&quotEye-wink

 

Brian37 wrote:


In one scene Luke is practicing his light saber skills on the Falcon, Han makes rightful skeptic remarks to the idea of religion. Obi Wan tells him to "trust his feelings", then puts on the blast shield and successfully while blind, defends himself from the mechanical training ball. I really hate this constant marketing in all media of playing off of people's feelings.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I know someone who's political points are all based off of nothing but feelings. Must have watched too much Star Wars. 


Brian37 wrote:

In real training, such as the Hudson river landing, it wasn't "feelings" that got that plane down safely, but training, and even mechanical redundancy that pilots are trained in pre flight simulators to simulate such events prior to the reality of one actually happening.

Nonsense. Feelings can be trained and most high level training is more about maintaining your instincts and feelings to continue performing at a high level. The mental training is important, but also has a very low limit. You can read every book about how to fly a jet and mentally know more about flying a plane than the Blue Angels, but still be completely lost when you are put behind the controls. That is why high level training focuses on putting you into as close to realistic situations as possible, so that you can develop your feelings and instincts because usually you don't have time to think about it consciously. You are relying on your unconscious mind to make dozens or hundreds of decisions accurately. That is also why a great sports player doesn't always make a good coach and vice versa. There is a huge difference between intellectual training and developing a feeling. In the sports world, many people refer to it as "the zone" when you reach a point of action where you are going completely on your feelings without consciously thinking about it. When whatever you are doing becomes an act as unconscious as breathing, you have achieved a very high level of proficiency and you are probably a hell of a lot better at it than anyone who is thinking.   

When I hunt, I trust my feelings. My mind picks up those thousands of little details that didn't seem important individually and puts them together. When I play poker I often WISH I had trusted my feelings. You get that feeling in your gut that you should fold/call and your damn rational mind tells you to follow the math and do the mathematically correct thing instead. Odds are, the feeling you are getting is because something your unconscious mind picked up on and if your feelings are good, you should trust them. 

Brian37 wrote:

But, the most insidious meme in "Return of the Jedi", smacks of similarities of Saul, being a former monster whom becomes good and forgiven and becomes Paul. Darth Vader from the first movie, is a dictator, genocidal and even kills those who fail him, not once, but several times. In the final minutes in the last battle between Luke and Darth Vadar, Darth realizes his mistake and turns on his own evil master and kills him to save Luke. Luke then tries to save him. Sounds nice.

It is one thing to realize you have hurt others. It is another to let your brains fall out and forgive a monster. This move reflects the same horrible logic of the god/s of Abraham.

There are no such things as monsters. Monsters (the idea of something that is evil and only evil) is a construct of religion and other human fantasies. Hitler loved puppies. And no human who has ever lived was pure evil. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

But Brian, it is just fiction. I will still give it credit for it's time being a visual masterpiece, well acted, and brilliant music score. But I cannot bring myself to value the same old crap of distorting human morality to comic book levels. I cannot value a meme that teaches us to go with our feelings. The Death Star alone, paints technology as evil, and is so dominating in that series it gets you to forget that the heros are also using technology to defeat them.

No, don't "trust your feelings". It is ok to have them, but we don't need mass media telling us in any form that "feelings" constitute truth. I have come to hate Obi Wan as much as Darth Vadar, just like I hate both God and Satan.

You do realize that "hate" is a feeling? Feelings are just as real as anything else that happens in your brain, we use them to interpret reality and there is absolutely no way you could get around without them. 

BTW, I hate Obi Wan too. He always gave me a creepy feeling.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Feelings

Beyond Saving wrote:
Feelings can be trained and most high level training is more about maintaining your instincts and feelings to continue performing at a high level. The mental training is important, but also has a very low limit. You can read every book about how to fly a jet and mentally know more about flying a plane than the Blue Angels, but still be completely lost when you are put behind the controls. That is why high level training focuses on putting you into as close to realistic situations as possible, so that you can develop your feelings and instincts because usually you don't have time to think about it consciously. You are relying on your unconscious mind to make dozens or hundreds of decisions accurately. That is also why a great sports player doesn't always make a good coach and vice versa. There is a huge difference between intellectual training and developing a feeling. In the sports world, many people refer to it as "the zone" when you reach a point of action where you are going completely on your feelings without consciously thinking about it. When whatever you are doing becomes an act as unconscious as breathing, you have achieved a very high level of proficiency and you are probably a hell of a lot better at it than anyone who is thinking.   

When I hunt, I trust my feelings. My mind picks up those thousands of little details that didn't seem important individually and puts them together. When I play poker I often WISH I had trusted my feelings. You get that feeling in your gut that you should fold/call and your damn rational mind tells you to follow the math and do the mathematically correct thing instead. Odds are, the feeling you are getting is because something your unconscious mind picked up on and if your feelings are good, you should trust them.




i'm the same with playing guitar. i know all of dick about theory and i never took a lesson in my life. usually guys that were classically trained watch me sheepishly and then start to ask if i know about this style of playing or that style. i usually look up and gruffly say, "no, i reckon i know about all i need to know to get my point across." they ask me those questions, but they don't play with me. i know what they're doing. they're trying to prove something by exposing my gaps in theory when they know damn good and well that praxis is all that counts, and no matter how many jimmy page or eric clapton solos they memorize note for note, they know i have something they don't have: a style. if someone hears my guitar playing, they know it's me, even before they enter the room. how did i get it? feeling. emotions, rather. fucking emotions translated into finger movements. where else could it have come from? nobody showed it to me. literally nobody. i just naturally fell into it. sure, i had lots of practice, but i was my own coach. i was my own teacher. sort of like how the jedi had a natural ability to do what they did (which, btw, is given a biological explanation in the prequel trilogy).

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Vastet
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This topic is ridiculous.

This topic is ridiculous.

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