Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

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Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

 

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American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com).

Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure to upset some believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture. Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people."

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no," Atwill insists, "in fact he may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there's simply nothing left."

Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Is this the beginning of the end of Christianity? "Probably not," grants Atwill, "but what my work has done is give permission to many of those ready to leave the religion to make a clean break. We've got the evidence now to show exactly where the story of Jesus came from. Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."

Atwill encourages skeptics to challenge him at Conway Hall, where after the presentations there is likely to be a lively Q&A session. Joining Mr.Atwill will be fellow scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of the book "Jesus Never Existed."

Further information can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com.

About Joseph Atwill: Joseph Atwill is the author of the best-selling book "Caesar's Messiah" and its upcoming sequel "The Single Strand."


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Cpt_pineapple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

 

Quote:

American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com).

Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure to upset some believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture. Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people."

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no," Atwill insists, "in fact he may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there's simply nothing left."

Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Is this the beginning of the end of Christianity? "Probably not," grants Atwill, "but what my work has done is give permission to many of those ready to leave the religion to make a clean break. We've got the evidence now to show exactly where the story of Jesus came from. Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."

Atwill encourages skeptics to challenge him at Conway Hall, where after the presentations there is likely to be a lively Q&A session. Joining Mr.Atwill will be fellow scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of the book "Jesus Never Existed."

Further information can be found at http://www.covertmessiah.com.

About Joseph Atwill: Joseph Atwill is the author of the best-selling book "Caesar's Messiah" and its upcoming sequel "The Single Strand."

"Peaceful"? NO, I think the Dark Ages proved that "Jesus" was a propaganda tool, but hardly "peaceful".

 

All religions are merely anthropomorphic comic book projections in strive for political power. To me who started it is irrelevant. Christianity is not a result of a real god, merely successful marketing, no matter who did the marketing.

It still would not make the fantastic claims in the Bible true, be it the , either way man/gods and virgin births are still poppycock stories.

 

 

 

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I prefer Price

Not many take Atwill's Roman committee conspiracy theory seriously, largely because Markan priority is generally accepted.

 

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/rev_atwill.htm

"Unaware of the work of Theodore J. Weeden, Atwill traces out the numerous striking parallels between the Passion story of Jesus Christ and the Josephus story of Jesus ben-Ananias, his interrogation by the Sanhedrin and the Roman procurator, his predictions of Jerusalem’s destruction, and his flogging and eventual death, suggesting the two Jesuses are one and the same. (It is too bad the rest of Atwill’s parallels are not similarly compelling, even plausible.)

But surely, as Weeden argues, the explanation is that Mark simply borrowed the story from Josephus."

 

 


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Carrier sticks the boot in

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/4664

"That was my last communication with Atwill. I see no point in continuing to communicate with him or read anything by him. He doesn’t know what he is talking about, he has no valid method, he ignores alternative explanations of the evidence, and he invents anything he needs to force the evidence to fit his theory. And then when he is refuted, he claims he has been victorious. Alas, that pegs him. He is a crank."

 


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ok, no, sorry, as much as

ok, no, sorry, as much as religions may be founded on nonsense, to expect me to believe that this self-contradictory, mixed up mass of nonsense was entirely orchestrated by a cabal of secret government officials who left "clues" for the enlightened to follow is just as unbelievable as any mythological garbage.

if there really is a document saying "we made up jesus," why should we consider it any more reliable than the gospels?  i could just as easily say the document was fabricated by roman authorities to try to combat the subversive christian religion...and that's a lot more feasible too. 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:ok, no, sorry,

iwbiek wrote:

ok, no, sorry, as much as religions may be founded on nonsense, to expect me to believe that this self-contradictory, mixed up mass of nonsense was entirely orchestrated by a cabal of secret government officials who left "clues" for the enlightened to follow is just as unbelievable as any mythological garbage.

if there really is a document saying "we made up jesus," why should we consider it any more reliable than the gospels?  i could just as easily say the document was fabricated by roman authorities to try to combat the subversive christian religion...and that's a lot more feasible too. 

Jesus WAS made up, but it was not a government conspiracy. It was just a bunch of idiots writing crap they wanted to be true, peppered that comic book AFTER THE FACT, with real people and real places to give it the appearance of being lagit.

Mormonism was not started by a government conspiracy, but it was started by a delusional con artist in Joseph Smith.

 

Christianity however was eventually adapted by Rome for political expedience, even if it was not concocted by them from the start.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Jesus WAS made

Brian37 wrote:

Jesus WAS made up, but it was not a government conspiracy. It was just a bunch of idiots writing crap they wanted to be true, peppered that comic book AFTER THE FACT, with real people and real places to give it the appearance of being lagit.

Mormonism was not started by a government conspiracy, but it was started by a delusional con artist in Joseph Smith.

 

Christianity however was eventually adapted by Rome for political expedience, even if it was not concocted by them from the start.

 

 

 

 

and that's another hypothesis...

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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I can't believe that the

I can't believe that the ridiculous religion was invented and compiled under the authority of the Roman Empire. They'd have done a better job of it.

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Vastet wrote:I can't believe

Vastet wrote:
I can't believe that the ridiculous religion was invented and compiled under the authority of the Roman Empire. They'd have done a better job of it.

i beg to differ, but based on perspective.  with rome, the whole thing would have appeared too ordered, and thus obviously a fake (which is probably why the cults of the emperors didn't survive the empire's fall).  christianity is so ridiculous precisely because it is a natural human development.  for any human or group of humans to successfully replicate such organic chaos as part of a long-term plot with clear objectives...well, that's impossible.  even for the romans.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Kicking against the pricks

Godfrey suggests that Atwill is finding it hard to kick against the pricks.

In other words, those who are in positions of authority or who want to be respected, are being too bullying when attacking Atwill and there is too much ad hominem going down.

On the other hand, Godfrey does seem to accept that Carrier at least does provide many strong arguments against Atwill.

http://vridar.org/2013/10/12/so-this-was-kick-joe-atwill-week/

 

Personally, I find the following arguments against Atwill persuasive: (others have covered most of this)

 

If the Romans were capable of creating a religion that successfully subdued the rebellious, why didn't they do it more often?

There are parallels between the emperor cult and Christianity, but not too many.

The NT canon and especially the non-canonical works are often inconsistent and contradictory, in style and content; unlike what one would expect from a committee.

There are parallels between Josephus and the canon, but that can be explained by the NT writers having read Josephus or vice versa.

It is generally accepted that some of the epistles and Mark were written first, with the others appearing many decades later. Did the Roman committee headed by Josephus write all of them?

The extent of Roman persecution of Christians is debatable and usually exaggerated, but Justin Martyr (c150) and Tertullian do seem to attest to it. If Pliny the Younger's letter to Trajan is authentic (I remain uncertain), we have a form of persecution early in the second century. If the Flavian Caesars invented Christianity, why persecute Christians so soon afterwards?

 

However, it is quite possible that as long as one remains healthily sceptical, reading Atwill may be beneficial. He may even have excellent arguments against the above.


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Vastet wrote:I can't believe

Vastet wrote:
I can't believe that the ridiculous religion was invented and compiled under the authority of the Roman Empire. They'd have done a better job of it.

Regardless of who started it, one real event probably helped gain sympathy for the budding cult of Christianity. Nero scapegoated Christians after the fire that burned a large portion of Rome. No one likes a bully.

And this is how the successful marketing of religion exists. The Jesus motif, regardless of who wrote it, works. Because it puts the Roman's as the bullies and puts Jesus as the small guy standing up to the bullies.

But this is what works with all religions and arguments from all minorities in human history, "The virtue of the oppressed". It is the most insidious meme humans fall for. It is one thing to be a victim at one point in history, but far to often once beyond that moment in time the victims forget and turn around and become the bullies themselves.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37