Have to side with the Christians here:

Michael A Thompson
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Have to side with the Christians here:

 I'm an atheist but as the saying goes, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".  I abhor centralized power.  When you centralize power it ALWAYS benefits the powerful.  Here is a letter my father sent me about a conversation between a lawyer and the FHA regarding a loan:


Part of rebuilding New Orleans caused residents often to be challenged with the task of tracing home titles back potentially hundreds of years.  With a community rich with history stretching back over two centuries, houses have been passed along through generations of family, sometimes making it quite difficult to establish ownership. Here's a great letter an attorney wrote to the FHA on behalf of a client: 

You have to love this lawyer...

A New Orleans lawyer sought an FHA loan for a client.  He was told the loan would be granted if he could prove satisfactory title to a parcel of property being offered as collateral.  The title to the property dated back to 1803, which took the lawyer three months to track down.  After sending the information to the FHA, he received the following reply:


(Actual reply from FHA):


"Upon review of your letter adjoining your client's loan application, we note the request is supported by an Abstract of Title.  While we compliment the able manner in which you have prepared and presented the application, we must point out you have only cleared title to the proposed collateral property back to 1803.  Before final approval can be accorded, it will be necessary to clear the title back to its origin." 

Annoyed, the lawyer responded as follows:


(Actual response):
"Your letter regarding title in Case No.189156 has been received.  I note you wish to have title extended further than the 206 years covered by the present application.  I was unaware any educated person in this country, particularly those working in the property area, would not know Louisiana was purchased by the United States from France in 1803, the year of origin identified in our application.  For the edification of uninformed FHA bureaucrats, the title to the land prior to U.S. Ownership was obtained from France, which had acquired it by Right of Conquest from Spain.  The land came into the possession of Spain by Right of Discovery made in the year 1492 by a sea captain named Christopher Columbus, who had been granted the privilege of seeking a new route to India by the Spanish monarch, Queen Isabella.  The good Queen Isabella, being a pious woman and almost as careful about titles as the FHA, took the precaution of securing the blessing of the Pope before she sold her jewels to finance Columbus's expedition.  Now the Pope, as I'm sure you may know, is the emissary of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and God, it is commonly accepted, created this world.  Therefore, I believe it is safe to presume God also made the part of the world called Louisiana.  God; therefore, would be the owner of origin and His origins date back to before the beginning of time, the world as we know it, and the FHA.  I hope you find God's original claim to be satisfactory.  Now, may we have our loan?"

 

The loan was immediately approved.

 

And you want Government running health care?


Vastet
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That's actually a humour

That's actually a humour piece much older than the New Orleans flooding. It has no basis in reality.

http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/landgrab.asp

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and that lawyer was Albert

and that lawyer was Albert Einstein

 

 


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Even if that weren't an

Even if that weren't an urban legend older than the hurricane, it's still not a reason to trace the ownership back to God. The link stops at the Pope; anything beyond that is speculation.


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It didn't take long to

It didn't take long to realize it was a bogus story, but it was amusing..

 

LMAO @CPT_Pineapple... HAHAHAHA Albert Einstein. Now that was a funny urban legend.

 


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Michael A Thompson wrote:nd

Michael A Thompson wrote:

nd you want Government running health care?

Our government is inept too, and while our health care system isn't perfect, it does work. 

Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.


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Michael A Thompson

Michael A Thompson wrote:

 I'm an atheist but as the saying goes, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".  I abhor centralized power.  When you centralize power it ALWAYS benefits the powerful.  Here is a letter my father sent me about a conversation between a lawyer and the FHA regarding a loan:


Part of rebuilding New Orleans caused residents often to be challenged with the task of tracing home titles back potentially hundreds of years.  With a community rich with history stretching back over two centuries, houses have been passed along through generations of family, sometimes making it quite difficult to establish ownership. Here's a great letter an attorney wrote to the FHA on behalf of a client: 

You have to love this lawyer...

A New Orleans lawyer sought an FHA loan for a client.  He was told the loan would be granted if he could prove satisfactory title to a parcel of property being offered as collateral.  The title to the property dated back to 1803, which took the lawyer three months to track down.  After sending the information to the FHA, he received the following reply:


(Actual reply from FHA):


"Upon review of your letter adjoining your client's loan application, we note the request is supported by an Abstract of Title.  While we compliment the able manner in which you have prepared and presented the application, we must point out you have only cleared title to the proposed collateral property back to 1803.  Before final approval can be accorded, it will be necessary to clear the title back to its origin." 

Annoyed, the lawyer responded as follows:


(Actual response):
"Your letter regarding title in Case No.189156 has been received.  I note you wish to have title extended further than the 206 years covered by the present application.  I was unaware any educated person in this country, particularly those working in the property area, would not know Louisiana was purchased by the United States from France in 1803, the year of origin identified in our application.  For the edification of uninformed FHA bureaucrats, the title to the land prior to U.S. Ownership was obtained from France, which had acquired it by Right of Conquest from Spain.  The land came into the possession of Spain by Right of Discovery made in the year 1492 by a sea captain named Christopher Columbus, who had been granted the privilege of seeking a new route to India by the Spanish monarch, Queen Isabella.  The good Queen Isabella, being a pious woman and almost as careful about titles as the FHA, took the precaution of securing the blessing of the Pope before she sold her jewels to finance Columbus's expedition.  Now the Pope, as I'm sure you may know, is the emissary of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and God, it is commonly accepted, created this world.  Therefore, I believe it is safe to presume God also made the part of the world called Louisiana.  God; therefore, would be the owner of origin and His origins date back to before the beginning of time, the world as we know it, and the FHA.  I hope you find God's original claim to be satisfactory.  Now, may we have our loan?"

 

The loan was immediately approved.

 

And you want Government running health care?

 

FUCK IT, LETS PRIVATIZE EVERYTHING, including police and firemen and military and only people with money get to use those things. There is a country like that, it is called SOMALIA!

Who got us into the great depression? PRIVATE BUSINESS AND THEIR WILD SPECULATION, WHAT GOT US OUT AND BUILT THE MIDDLE CLASS, GOVERNMENT!

It is one thing to advocate for separations of power, as there should be. We do have centeralized power, the 1%. Break up the monopolies like REPUBLICAN TEDDY ROOSEVELT then I'll listen.

But this is the same bullshit talking points the republicans have used to wreck our economy over the past 30 years.

 

 

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Jabberwocky
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Brian37 wrote:Michael A

Brian37 wrote:

Michael A Thompson wrote:

 I'm an atheist but as the saying goes, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".  I abhor centralized power.  When you centralize power it ALWAYS benefits the powerful.  Here is a letter my father sent me about a conversation between a lawyer and the FHA regarding a loan:


Part of rebuilding New Orleans caused residents often to be challenged with the task of tracing home titles back potentially hundreds of years.  With a community rich with history stretching back over two centuries, houses have been passed along through generations of family, sometimes making it quite difficult to establish ownership. Here's a great letter an attorney wrote to the FHA on behalf of a client: 

You have to love this lawyer...

A New Orleans lawyer sought an FHA loan for a client.  He was told the loan would be granted if he could prove satisfactory title to a parcel of property being offered as collateral.  The title to the property dated back to 1803, which took the lawyer three months to track down.  After sending the information to the FHA, he received the following reply:


(Actual reply from FHA):


"Upon review of your letter adjoining your client's loan application, we note the request is supported by an Abstract of Title.  While we compliment the able manner in which you have prepared and presented the application, we must point out you have only cleared title to the proposed collateral property back to 1803.  Before final approval can be accorded, it will be necessary to clear the title back to its origin." 

Annoyed, the lawyer responded as follows:


(Actual response):
"Your letter regarding title in Case No.189156 has been received.  I note you wish to have title extended further than the 206 years covered by the present application.  I was unaware any educated person in this country, particularly those working in the property area, would not know Louisiana was purchased by the United States from France in 1803, the year of origin identified in our application.  For the edification of uninformed FHA bureaucrats, the title to the land prior to U.S. Ownership was obtained from France, which had acquired it by Right of Conquest from Spain.  The land came into the possession of Spain by Right of Discovery made in the year 1492 by a sea captain named Christopher Columbus, who had been granted the privilege of seeking a new route to India by the Spanish monarch, Queen Isabella.  The good Queen Isabella, being a pious woman and almost as careful about titles as the FHA, took the precaution of securing the blessing of the Pope before she sold her jewels to finance Columbus's expedition.  Now the Pope, as I'm sure you may know, is the emissary of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and God, it is commonly accepted, created this world.  Therefore, I believe it is safe to presume God also made the part of the world called Louisiana.  God; therefore, would be the owner of origin and His origins date back to before the beginning of time, the world as we know it, and the FHA.  I hope you find God's original claim to be satisfactory.  Now, may we have our loan?"

 

The loan was immediately approved.

 

And you want Government running health care?

 

FUCK IT, LETS PRIVATIZE EVERYTHING, including police and firemen and military and only people with money get to use those things. There is a country like that, it is called SOMALIA!

Who got us into the great depression? PRIVATE BUSINESS AND THEIR WILD SPECULATION, WHAT GOT US OUT AND BUILT THE MIDDLE CLASS, GOVERNMENT!

It is one thing to advocate for separations of power, as there should be. We do have centeralized power, the 1%. Break up the monopolies like REPUBLICAN TEDDY ROOSEVELT then I'll listen.

But this is the same bullshit talking points the republicans have used to wreck our economy over the past 30 years.

 

 

Yep. I don't understand why a government is fine to people with this mentality in the first place. Why a government should be responsible for building roads, maintaining infrastructure, running police, fire, etc., but for some arbitrary reason, not healthcare, baffles me. I can't understand that mentality. Why is it bad to privatize...

Police: They would favour the rich, who could get away with anything, and could even begin arresting people for money

Fire: If resources are low, they may stop mid-job to save a rich guy's house

Infrastructure: Without proper planning, it would make the worst planned city in North America look brilliant

and health care: Same reason as police and fire...people should receive health care in the order of what is the most urgent MEDICAL complaint, not who has the money to pay for it. 

Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.


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Jabberwocky wrote: Yep. I

Jabberwocky wrote:

Yep. I don't understand why a government is fine to people with this mentality in the first place. Why a government should be responsible for building roads, maintaining infrastructure, running police, fire, etc., but for some arbitrary reason, not healthcare, baffles me. I can't understand that mentality. Why is it bad to privatize...

Police: They would favour the rich, who could get away with anything, and could even begin arresting people for money

Fire: If resources are low, they may stop mid-job to save a rich guy's house

Infrastructure: Without proper planning, it would make the worst planned city in North America look brilliant

and health care: Same reason as police and fire...people should receive health care in the order of what is the most urgent MEDICAL complaint, not who has the money to pay for it. 

 

Oh, this would never happen, now. Right?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-vBJ8cS08U

 

 

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Jabberwocky wrote:Yep. I

Jabberwocky wrote:

Yep. I don't understand why a government is fine to people with this mentality in the first place. Why a government should be responsible for building roads, maintaining infrastructure, running police, fire, etc., but for some arbitrary reason, not healthcare, baffles me. I can't understand that mentality. Why is it bad to privatize...

I don't understand how people can see the sheer wealth, low cost and overabundance of things we have from food to shelter to electronics and somehow think a similar system is incapable of providing other necessities. 

 

Jabberwocky wrote:

Fire: If resources are low, they may stop mid-job to save a rich guy's house

70% of firefighters in the US are volunteer, 5% are private. Is fire protection in 3/4ths of the country dangerously bad? The only real question is how we pay for fire protection and there are a bunch of non-government ways we could do that. Fire stations could be non-profits that raise money (many are), they could be part of a local coop, they could be an organization that is funded by insurance companies which insure the buildings in an area (many of the private fire departments in existence are paid solely through insurance companies), they could be ran as a subscription style service or some combination or something else entirely. The possibilities are endless and which one is best no doubt depends on the specifics of the area. 

Worried about resources running low? What do you think is faster, a government which requires a vote to create a new tax levy- in most places must be approved by voters and often takes a year or more, or a private organization which recognizes the fire dept. is not big enough and can unilaterally hire more firefighters immediately? 

 

 

Jabberwocky wrote:
 

Infrastructure: Without proper planning, it would make the worst planned city in North America look brilliant

Who do you think plans infrastructure projects now? Those proposals are almost always submitted by lobbyists from one company or another. The main role government plays is deciding which projects to fund. If Walmart wants a new road out to their store, why don't they pay for it? If some developer wants to develop an area, why should everyone pay for it and take on the risk that those roads might not be used? After the real estate collapse there were a bunch of subdivisions that governments paid to add electricity, sewage, water and roads which are now sitting as big plots of undeveloped land where no one lives. Government wasted money providing utilities to an area where no one lives. Why should the taxpayer take on that risk?

Do you think that our elected politicians are experts on planning? Of course not. Do you think they decide what projects to fund or not fund on some brilliant well thought out long term plan? No, they don't. How do you think we end up with projects like the infamous "bridge to nowhere". Politicians vote based on what the lobbyists that have the most influence want. And a lobbyist that is spending taxpayer money is a lot less concerned with how well it is being spent than some group/developer/company/organization that is spending its own money on a project. 

Look at all the infrastructure that government didn't play a role in creating, such as cable, satellite tv, cell towers and gas stations. Government is not needed to create infrastructure. More often than not, it stands as a barrier. For example, a number of private power companies here in Ohio want to build power plants without any government funding and every single one has had their permits turned down. We have old coal plants operating that were scheduled to be shut down but can't because there is no other source of power. New coal plants are denied permits because coal pollutes, a hydroelectric plant was denied because some environmental groups wants to tear down the dam it would be attached to (the dam has been there for 100 years), in most counties it is illegal to build a wind turbine because of groups that worry about it destroying the view or are worried about bats becoming bat burger, and don't even talk about the attempt to build a nuclear plant etc.

For every attempt to build a new power source, there is some special interest group that is against it. The result is that Ohioans are looking at the very real possibility of not having enough power to maintain our growth if any of the large power plants break down. I am extremely familiar with the situation in Ohio, but similar things have been happening in other states as well. Research your own state, and if it has privately owned power companies I am willing to be they have experienced similar problems.

There are companies which are willing to engage in "solar leasing" where they install leased solar panels on consumers homes and then sell the excess power to a power company. The leasing company takes on all the expense of installation and maintenance and the consumer gets a portion of the savings. Great idea for those who can't afford the cost of solar panels right? It is only allowed in 14 states, many states ban it outright or have laws which grant monopolies to one company which simply refuses to purchase the electricity. 

 

Jabberwocky wrote:

and health care: Same reason as police and fire...people should receive health care in the order of what is the most urgent MEDICAL complaint, not who has the money to pay for it. 

What makes you think that government being in control is going to create equality? Are public schools in wealthy areas the same quality as public schools in poor areas? Are fire stations in wealthy areas the same quality as fire stations in poor areas? Is police protection in wealthy areas the same quality as police protection in poor areas? 

Why do you imagine that healthcare will be any different?

If I blindfold you and bring you inside a Walmart, would you be able to tell whether the Walmart was in a wealthy area or poor area?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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cj wrote:  Oh, this would

cj wrote:

 

Oh, this would never happen, now. Right?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-vBJ8cS08U

 

 

FFS you have to be kidding. Yeah, I bought my tickets for the big Walmart vs. Costco fight this evening. Betting my money on the Costco workers....

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X