Why the Republicans are losing ground

digitalbeachbum
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ProzacDeathWish
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 Apparently the majority of

 Apparently the majority of U.S. voters would rather be ruled by fascist democrats instead.  That's how democracy works.  Besides third parties seem to go nowhere in this country. 

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 Apparently the majority of U.S. voters would rather be ruled by fascist democrats instead.  That's how democracy works.  Besides third parties seem to go nowhere in this country. 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Fascists...

 

And on the subject of third parties... it's because the two existing parties trained the public to thing of only a two party system


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Well the  bigger fish is

Well the  bigger fish is the global corporate ponzy extraction market that is making everything a race to the bottom.

Big Oil, big banks, and the weapons industry are bilking humanity and causing all sorts of needless division because it cares more about profits than the harm it is doing to the planet and our species.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Fascists...

 

 

  Well, as far as I know the only American President who's ever rounded up completely innocent American born Japanese, families and all, and thrown them into internment camps was a Democrat.  That sounds pretty "extreme" to me.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 Apparently the majority of U.S. voters would rather be ruled by fascist democrats instead.  That's how democracy works.  Besides third parties seem to go nowhere in this country. 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Fascists...

 

And on the subject of third parties... it's because the two existing parties trained the public to thing of only a two party system

Yep, and you are all a bunch of good sheep that vote for them year after year. Because they like to scare you with things like

 

Brian37 wrote:

Well the  bigger fish is the global corporate ponzy extraction market that is making everything a race to the bottom.

Big Oil, big banks, and the weapons industry are bilking humanity and causing all sorts of needless division because it cares more about profits than the harm it is doing to the planet and our species.

All of these "big" evil corporations which the government promises to protect you from while passing laws that hand them money, power and protection. 

And yeah, the economic system currently being pushed in the United States finds its roots in fascism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism Fascism attempted to find a "third way" between capitalism and marxism. Fascist economics were characterized by government acting on short term interests based on the expediency of the moment as opposed to being idealistic with long term goals such as marxism or laissez faire capitalism. It supported the idea of private capital but insisted that all business had to be done "in the public interest". Businesses with political connections were regularly bailed out or given preferential regulations and the national government used heavy investments in infrastructure as a method of keeping the workers busy and stimulating the economy. 

I think the only reason you don't see open adoption of fascism is the bad name it got due to it being associated with militarism and racism. But the idea of using government and regulation as a tool to directly manage a privately owned economy and get involved with things like saving private companies is one that really originates with fascist thinkers. 

Nazi platform

Quote:

9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.  The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand: 

10. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery. 

11. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits. 

12. We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts). 

13. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries. 

14. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare. 

15. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality. 

16. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land. 

17. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race. 

18. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order. 

19. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. 

20. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession. 

21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young. 

(The omitted numbers are the ones that have nothing to do with economics, including the ones that are specifically racist.) Benito Mussolini had a similar, but slightly different take with his brand of Italian Fascism. http://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Fascism-Benito-Mussolini/dp/0865274630 I think probably the most illustrative quote to summarize his ideas on economics is 
Quote:
The corporate State considers that private enterprise in the sphere of production is the most effective and useful instrument in the interest of the nation. In view of the fact that private organisation of production is a function of national concern, the organiser of the enterprise is responsible to the State for the direction given to production. State intervention in economic production arises only when private initiative is lacking or insufficient, or when the political interests of the State are involved. This intervention may take the form of control, assistance or direct management.
(p. 135) He also supported strong unions (something that Hitler opposed), an 8 hour workday, minimum wage, and a heavy progressive tax. People really should bother reading a few books. Fascism was about a lot more than killing all the Jews, nor was it a movement that was fueled solely by hatred. It was a movement for a strong central government which had significant control over pretty much every aspect of society. Sometimes that control was directly exercised through military force, but more often it was done financially through the distribution of money and deciding who got money and who did not. How can you define a government that tells you that you must purchase a product from a short list of companies whether you want it or not? How do you define a government that bails out select banks and companies for the "national good" while allowing other companies to go bankrupt? How do you define a government that gives out massive contracts to build infrastructure to private companies as a method to attempt to stimulate the economy? It isn't capitalist. It isn't marxist. I think fascist is as accurate a term as any.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Fascists...

 

 

  Well, as far as I know the only American President who's ever rounded up completely innocent American born Japanese, families and all, and thrown them into internment camps was a Democrat.  That sounds pretty "extreme" to me.

I'm pretty sure that would have happened no matter who was president.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Beyond Saving
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Vastet wrote:ProzacDeathWish

Vastet wrote:
ProzacDeathWish wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Fascists...

 

 

  Well, as far as I know the only American President who's ever rounded up completely innocent American born Japanese, families and all, and thrown them into internment camps was a Democrat.  That sounds pretty "extreme" to me.

I'm pretty sure that would have happened no matter who was president.

I doubt it. Wendell Willkie was the republican candidate in 1940 (two years before the internment camps) and he was what at the time was considered an "extremist" on civil rights issues. After he lost the election, he spent a significant amount of time fighting for equality.

On June 27th, 1942 he wrote the following in the Saturday Evening Post

Quote:

Today we are living once more in a period that is psychologically susceptible to witch hanging and mob baiting. And each of us, if not alert, may find himself the unconscious carrier of the germ that will destroy our freedom. For each of us has within himself the inheritances of age-long hatreds, of racial and religious differences, and everyone has a tendency to find the cause for his own failures in some conspiracy of evil. It is, therefore, essential that we guard our own thinking and not be among those who cry out against prejudices applicable to themselves, while busy spawning intolerances for others.

In addition, as citizens, we must fight in their incipient stages all movements by government or party or pressure groups that seek to limit the legitimate liberties of any of our fellow citizens. For government, which should be the very guardian of these liberties, is frequently, through excess zeal or desire for quick accomplishment of a purpose, the oppressor. And political parties, overanxious for vote catching, become tolerant to intolerant groups. I have noticed, with much distress, the excessive wartime activity of the investigating bureaus of Congress and the administration, with their impertinent and indecent searching out of the private lives and the past political beliefs of individuals. Such methods, of course, are employed with the excuse of protecting the nation from subversive activities. So are those of the Gestapo. I have been appalled at the callous indifference of high officers of the navy to the obvious and undemocratic discrimination against Negroes, and disturbed to find similar discrimination too often in the ranks of industry and labor. I have been shocked to read that the Department of Justice seeks to revoke the citizenship of naturalized citizens suspected of foreign allegiance, rather than forthrightly to prosecute such persons for whatever crime they may be guilty of. The course it is pursuing casts doubt on the rights of all naturalized citizens to the same treatment before the law as is enjoyed by their fellows who were born here. I have been sickened to see political parties flirting with remnants of anti-Catholic Ku Klux Klanism and hesitating to denounce the anti-Semitism of Coughlinites and others.

For now more than ever, we must keep in the forefront of our minds the fact that whenever we take away the liberties of those we hate, we are opening the way to loss of liberty for those we love. Our way of living together in America is a strong but delicate fabric. It is made up of many threads. It has been woven over many centuries by the patience and sacrifice of countless liberty-loving men and women. It serves as a cloak for the protection of poor and rich, of black and white, of Jew and gentile, of foreign - and native-born. For God's sake, let us not tear it asunder. For no man knows, once it is destroyed, where or when man will find its protective warmth again.

While actually being President is different from commenting from the sidelines and he wouldn't have been the first President to say one thing and do another, I believe that Wendell Willkie would have approached the situation very differently. He was a very fascinating man who waffled a lot on foreign policy and economics issues; he leaned isolationist during the campaign but pushed for non-military support of our allies, after the election he was full fledged internationalist, becoming one of the first prominent politicians to push for a world government. (he wrote a book on the subject which sold over a million copies http://www.amazon.com/One-world-Wendell-L-Willkie/dp/B00005WIJ9/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364054100&sr=1-2&keywords=one+world+willkie)

He opposed the way the New Deal was being implemented, but in general supported the New Deal arguing that he could implement it better. Yet when it came to racial equality and liberty he was very consistent

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 Apparently the majority of U.S. voters would rather be ruled by fascist democrats instead.  That's how democracy works.  Besides third parties seem to go nowhere in this country. 

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Fascists...

 

And on the subject of third parties... it's because the two existing parties trained the public to thing of only a two party system

Yep, and you are all a bunch of good sheep that vote for them year after year. Because they like to scare you with things like

 

Brian37 wrote:

Well the  bigger fish is the global corporate ponzy extraction market that is making everything a race to the bottom.

Big Oil, big banks, and the weapons industry are bilking humanity and causing all sorts of needless division because it cares more about profits than the harm it is doing to the planet and our species.

 

All of these "big" evil corporations which the government promises to protect you from while passing laws that hand them money, power and protection. 

And yeah, the economic system currently being pushed in the United States finds its roots in fascism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism Fascism attempted to find a "third way" between capitalism and marxism. Fascist economics were characterized by government acting on short term interests based on the expediency of the moment as opposed to being idealistic with long term goals such as marxism or laissez faire capitalism. It supported the idea of private capital but insisted that all business had to be done "in the public interest". Businesses with political connections were regularly bailed out or given preferential regulations and the national government used heavy investments in infrastructure as a method of keeping the workers busy and stimulating the economy. 

I think the only reason you don't see open adoption of fascism is the bad name it got due to it being associated with militarism and racism. But the idea of using government and regulation as a tool to directly manage a privately owned economy and get involved with things like saving private companies is one that really originates with fascist thinkers. 

Nazi platform

Quote:

 

9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.  The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand: 

10. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery. 

11. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits. 

12. We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts). 

13. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries. 

14. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare. 

15. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality. 

16. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land. 

17. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race. 

18. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order. 

19. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. 

20. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession. 

21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young. 

(The omitted numbers are the ones that have nothing to do with economics, including the ones that are specifically racist.) Benito Mussolini had a similar, but slightly different take with his brand of Italian Fascism. http://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Fascism-Benito-Mussolini/dp/0865274630 I think probably the most illustrative quote to summarize his ideas on economics is 
Quote:
The corporate State considers that private enterprise in the sphere of production is the most effective and useful instrument in the interest of the nation. In view of the fact that private organisation of production is a function of national concern, the organiser of the enterprise is responsible to the State for the direction given to production. State intervention in economic production arises only when private initiative is lacking or insufficient, or when the political interests of the State are involved. This intervention may take the form of control, assistance or direct management.
(p. 135) He also supported strong unions (something that Hitler opposed), an 8 hour workday, minimum wage, and a heavy progressive tax. People really should bother reading a few books. Fascism was about a lot more than killing all the Jews, nor was it a movement that was fueled solely by hatred. It was a movement for a strong central government which had significant control over pretty much every aspect of society. Sometimes that control was directly exercised through military force, but more often it was done financially through the distribution of money and deciding who got money and who did not. How can you define a government that tells you that you must purchase a product from a short list of companies whether you want it or not? How do you define a government that bails out select banks and companies for the "national good" while allowing other companies to go bankrupt? How do you define a government that gives out massive contracts to build infrastructure to private companies as a method to attempt to stimulate the economy? It isn't capitalist. It isn't marxist. I think fascist is as accurate a term as any.  

 

Beyond, until you understand "climate" meaning conditions, you will stupidly claim that I am accusing all people who make a penny more than me as always being "evil". CLIMATE. How you think and how you vote contributes to the "climate". Now when I rail against big business, I am NOT saying business isn't needed. I AM SAYING the majority who have the power and most of the control, ARE NOT in tune with the rest of society. It is a climate of "sink or swim". It IS GOOD for profits YES. But how is it helping humanity other than helping itself?

 

You constantly post charts an graphs an links as to why you are right like an apologist defending a god. To say what you post doesn't work WOULD BE WRONG! The FUCKING PART YOU MISS, is who does it work for? Yes it does work. But if it worked for all of us things would get better for all of us. But I must have been asleep and this recession and pay gap explosion was just a product of my imagination. And just like God blames everything on everyone else but the God, it is always the workers fault and not the boss's fault. Just like it is never God's fault for the game he set up. But I am sure workers are to blame because they have all the monetary power like the COCK brothers to compete.

Fuck COSTCO who pays decent wages and allows unions. FUCK NICK HANOUR A BILLIONAIRE who says more money in our pockets does us all more good. FUCK WARREN BUFFET who says it is sad he pays less a ratio in taxes than his secretary. FUCK  ECONOMIST ROBERT REICH who has the SAME FUCKING DEGREES as the morons you quote.

I submit to you my rich overlord because only those with money know what is best for the rest of us. Who needs democracy when the wealthy can simply tell the rest of us what to do.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote:Beyond, until

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond, until you understand "climate" meaning conditions, you will stupidly claim that I am accusing all people who make a penny more than me as always being "evil".

Brian, until you understand English reading comprehension, you will stupidly claim that I am making claims that I have not made. 

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

You constantly post charts an graphs an links as to why you are right like an apologist defending a god.

Really? I haven't seen too many theists posting links, charts or graphs as evidence to support their positions. Most theists I have argued with simply repeat the same rant over and over while blindly ignoring solid evidence put in front of them and changing the topic being discussed. Please introduce me to these theists that actually provide evidence. 

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

To say what you post doesn't work WOULD BE WRONG! The FUCKING PART YOU MISS, is who does it work for? Yes it does work. But if it worked for all of us things would get better for all of us. But I must have been asleep and this recession and pay gap explosion was just a product of my imagination. And just like God blames everything on everyone else but the God, it is always the workers fault and not the boss's fault. Just like it is never God's fault for the game he set up. But I am sure workers are to blame because they have all the monetary power like the COCK brothers to compete.

When a business fails I always blame the boss. When the pay gap increases I blame you. You have yet to demonstrate any evidence or coherent argument as to why the pay gap increasing is a bad thing.

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

Fuck COSTCO who pays decent wages and allows unions. FUCK NICK HANOUR A BILLIONAIRE who says more money in our pockets does us all more good. FUCK WARREN BUFFET who says it is sad he pays less a ratio in taxes than his secretary. FUCK  ECONOMIST ROBERT REICH who has the SAME FUCKING DEGREES as the morons you quote.

I am a big fan of Costco, their stock has been in my portfolio for several years now. I think Costco is a great example of how the free market works, when a large behemoth that many believe is indestructible becomes bureaucratic a better designed company can make serious cuts into their market share. No government needed. 

And yes, fuck Warren Buffett- do you have any clue how Buffett makes his fortune? He is dishonest and makes his money from political connections to government rather than building businesses. People like him are the problem. 

And yes, fuck Robert Reich. He was probably the most dominant economic adviser throughout the 90's and I believe that many of the policies he advocated for and got implemented are responsible for our current economic problems. The reality is that you can't use interest rates to encourage over consumption of goods forever. Sooner or later, the bubble pops and the more pressure you build, the worse the collapse is. Robert Reich and his fellow economic idealogues (many of whom are republican, this isn't a democrat vs. republican issue) are responsible for many of our problems today.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

I submit to you my rich overlord because only those with money know what is best for the rest of us. Who needs democracy when the wealthy can simply tell the rest of us what to do.

You didn't read my post at all, did you? 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X