Mr. Ed It's What's For Dinner

Beyond Saving
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Mr. Ed It's What's For Dinner

 I don't know how many of you have been paying attention to the big horse meat scandal going on in the UK right now. Personally, I find the entire thing vastly amusing. For those who don't know, it turns out that many popular prepared foods that advertised as "beef" turned out to be actually horse meat with burger products ranging anywhere from trace amounts to 100% horse meat. I am really curious if the mass hysteria is mostly just being pushed by the media or if people are really upset about it.

If I found out that the worst thing in a Burger King Whopper I ate was horse I would be ecstatic. Horse is an extremely healthy meat (far healthier than beef which next to pork is about as unhealthy as meat can get) and it tastes pretty good. Sure, there is an issue with fraud which should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law but I don't really see it as something to be all hysterical over.

The media now seems to be pressing the idea of health concerns because some of the horses were apparently treated with phenylbutazone which is a drug not allowed to be used on animals for human consumption. However, in reality phenylbutazone is not terribly dangerous and is prescribed to humans for arthritis. You would have to sit and eat 500-600 1/2 pound horse hamburgers in one day to approach an amount equal to one human dose, if you are consuming that much you will be in the hospital long before the phenylbutazone hurts you. Consuming meat simply is not an effective way to transfer drugs.

Then of course there is the concern that with all of the FSA regulations it took them apparently years to discover that "beef" was not in fact beef and that opens the question if they couldn't even tell the difference between a horse and a cow how can the possibly be confident about the quality of the butchering process and the handling of the meat. Though to me, that is an issue completely separate from whether the meat is horse or beef either one can make you sick if handled incorrectly. As of now, I have not seen anyone actually point to any cases of significant food poisoning, so while the butchers may or may not be up to the FSA regulations it is hardly a significant health crises. It just goes to show that government regulatory bodies provide nothing but false security in the belief that some inspector is working hard to protect your health. Such inspectors can apparently be duped easily. I don't trust them with any of my meat and try to avoid prepared foods because I know they use substandard quality meat- you can taste it.   

In many ways I find the cultural phobia over eating horse to be as ridiculous as the religions that ban the eating of pork or beef. There is no rational reason to be afraid of eating horse. There is a rational reason to be afraid of fast and prepared food because that shit isn't fit for my dog to eat and tastes terrible. This might be the first time in history that a huge criminal enterprise actually committed a crime that improved the quality of the end product. I wonder if any people are going to eat these products after the government successfully stops all the horse imports and think to themselves "huh, this doesn't taste as good as it used to" as low quality beef is put back in place as the burger du jour.   

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Maybe....

 

 

                 That may explain a few things.  My wife was in England in January on buisness, since she came back when ever I ask "when is dinner" she stomps the floor six times. And it's always oatmeal for some reason. I just got spurs and a riding crop for valentines.  I'll get her apples and suger cubes. Now where can I find a saddle that fits a ninty pound female?

 

 

 

 

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I think llama should be made

I think llama should be made more available for use, but here is another example of how special interest groups and lobbyists control propping up old out dated products like beef, chicken and pork. Lordy forbid if another kid on the block comes along and tries to start a business.


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I heard about it. I'm mostly

I heard about it. I'm mostly curious as to what horse tastes like.

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meh.  as long as i don't

meh.  as long as i don't get sick from it and i'm not turned off by the taste or texture, i don't care what it is.  i remember watching "fast food nation" when it came out years ago and i had the same reaction: "meh."  i thought it was funny how they showed the slaughterhouse scene at the end with this maudlin music and everybody was supposed to be all horrified and i just said, "is anybody here actusally surprised?  if you are, you're an idiot."

my favorite character in that movie was actually supposed to be a bad guy, i guess: bruce willis's character.  he expressed my sentiments exactly when he responded to the fecal matter in beef scare while eating one of his company's burgers (i'm paraphrasing): "everybody needs to grow up.  we have this irrational desire for everything to be sterile.  guess what?  you eat shit almost every day, you've probably been eating it your whole life.  just cook the meat thoroughly and you'll be fine."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Tastes ok

I had horse in Paris once, but I don't remember the taste very well.

From what I do remember, it was a bit tough and stringy and red-meaty. Not bad but not brilliant. Maybe it would have been nicer with a good sauce.

The few times I've eaten kangaroo were a bit like that too, but not so stringy.

I reckon the problem with the horse scandal isn't that eating horse is shocking, it's more to do with not getting what's advertised on the packet.

If a product's label says '47.5% reconstituted beef scrapings, gristle, ears and giblet essence' then that's what you expect to get.

 

Otherwise, meh too.


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I find it funny you would

I find it funny you would post this. For someone who is for less regulation you should have no problem eating Mr Ed without your knowledge, we wouldn't want to regulate a business now would we?

Whats wrong Wilber?

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Jeffrick wrote: Now where

Jeffrick wrote:

 Now where can I find a saddle that fits a ninty pound female?

 

http://www.water-hole.com/Shopping/xcart/product.php?productid=16186

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Jeffrick

Beyond Saving wrote:

Jeffrick wrote:

 Now where can I find a saddle that fits a ninty pound female?

 

http://www.water-hole.com/Shopping/xcart/product.php?productid=16186

 

Hey bubble boy. You should have no problem with eating horse meat. NO REGULATION NO RULES BUSINESS NEVER FUCKS UP.

Tell you what, instead of Turkey for Thanksgiving this year, I'll find Secretariat's offspring, deep fry it for you, and we can watch football and have horse barbecue. YUMMY!

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:I find it

Brian37 wrote:

I find it funny you would post this. For someone who is for less regulation you should have no problem eating Mr Ed without your knowledge, we wouldn't want to regulate a business now would we?

Whats wrong Wilber?

Did you even read my post? Like I said, I would be ecstatic if the worst thing in a whopper was horse.

I do think that outright fraud should be punished (a position I have consistently held), which it is when you tell someone you are selling them 100% beef when you are actually selling 100% horse. You don't need a shitload of regulations for that, you just need a law against fraud and government enforcement of contracts- so if I have a contract to sell you 100 pounds of beef and I provide you 100 pounds of something that is not beef then I have violated the contract. 

 

Perhaps you remember this particular exchange between me and you awhile back

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/29444 

Brian37 wrote:

SO HOW do you make laws that are neutral and fair, without oppressing business AND without creating a wild west atmosphere where a monopoly can take hold? 

Beyond Saving wrote:

You make laws solely on the basis of preventing a person from using dishonesty, fraud or violence to harm another person. The government has the role of arbitrating contracts. It should be the referee and nothing more. 

 

I would say this is a crystal clear case of fraud and breaking a contract. They promised to deliver beef and they delivered horse instead claiming it was beef. No different than if you bought a bag of Doritos and when you opened it found sour cream and onion chips. Those kinds of offenses should be punished and it is perfectly consistent with everything I have been saying for years. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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For some reason

For some reason, this discussion reminds me of this dark comedy movie called Delicatessan. Don't know if anyone has ever seen it or not. It's a French film that involves a cannibal butcher in a future where food has run out.

It is one of those films that everyone either totally loves or totally hates.

However, everyone that I have shown it to busts out laughing at all of the bizarre characters, the underground Trog rebels, and in general the whole film.

Especially the scene with the butcher and the flying boomerang.  Laughing out loud

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Jeffrick wrote:

 Now where can I find a saddle that fits a ninty pound female?

 

http://www.water-hole.com/Shopping/xcart/product.php?productid=16186

 

Hey bubble boy. You should have no problem with eating horse meat. NO REGULATION NO RULES BUSINESS NEVER FUCKS UP.

Tell you what, instead of Turkey for Thanksgiving this year, I'll find Secretariat's offspring, deep fry it for you, and we can watch football and have horse barbecue. YUMMY!

I have no problem eating horse meat. I have eaten it before several times and will most likely eat it again. Never had it barbecued though, I doubt it would be very good bbq because that style of cooking relies on long slow temps which is best for meat which is high in fat. Horse is very lean so tends to be better when cooked using fast techniques and it really shines when used raw. Trying to bbq it would probably lead to it being very dry and stringy. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Vastet
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Beyond Saving wrote:I do

Beyond Saving wrote:
I do think that outright fraud should be punished (a position I have consistently held), which it is when you tell someone you are selling them 100% beef when you are actually selling 100% horse.

Brian doesn't care about false advertising. He thinks you should be allowed to package horse and call it beef.

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Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I find it funny you would post this. For someone who is for less regulation you should have no problem eating Mr Ed without your knowledge, we wouldn't want to regulate a business now would we?

Whats wrong Wilber?

Did you even read my post? Like I said, I would be ecstatic if the worst thing in a whopper was horse.

I do think that outright fraud should be punished (a position I have consistently held), which it is when you tell someone you are selling them 100% beef when you are actually selling 100% horse. You don't need a shitload of regulations for that, you just need a law against fraud and government enforcement of contracts- so if I have a contract to sell you 100 pounds of beef and I provide you 100 pounds of something that is not beef then I have violated the contract. 

 

Perhaps you remember this particular exchange between me and you awhile back

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/29444 

 

Brian37 wrote:

SO HOW do you make laws that are neutral and fair, without oppressing business AND without creating a wild west atmosphere where a monopoly can take hold? 

Beyond Saving wrote:

You make laws solely on the basis of preventing a person from using dishonesty, fraud or violence to harm another person. The government has the role of arbitrating contracts. It should be the referee and nothing more. 

 

 

I would say this is a crystal clear case of fraud and breaking a contract. They promised to deliver beef and they delivered horse instead claiming it was beef. No different than if you bought a bag of Doritos and when you opened it found sour cream and onion chips. Those kinds of offenses should be punished and it is perfectly consistent with everything I have been saying for years. 

You speak out of both sides of your mouth.

How do you think fraud is caught? No regulation?

No you don't care at all because if you did, it would understand WHY less regulation cannot work because of the climate that causes this kind of fraud, just like the fraud the banks caused. It is bad enough that what we have as far as regulation is not working as well as it should. Less regulation with our current climate will produce more fraud like this. The same fraud that allows Wall Street, the banks, housing and car companies to fuck the rest of us over.

Less regulation would require self policing, less government requires responsibility at the top. This, just like the gulf spill is a result of the climate of cutting corners and rushing for the buck.

AGAIN ANYTHING ANYTHING ANYTHING left to it's own devices without oversight, be it a political party, a religion, or private business can go off the rails.

The stench of your hypocrisy and the irony is amazing.

So once again if you claim less regulation would be better you STILL fail to take the responsibility part of it seriously. You always want to dump everything on the consumer and don't want to hold any of the business community big or small responsible and don't lie to me and say you do.

You take the same stupid attitude to business as you do the god character and use the same excuses.

"I don't owe you anything"

"I don't have to explain myself to you"

"I can do whatever I want"

So stand up for these frauds or accept that WE not you, WE get to decide HOW WE regulate. Otherwise you are a lying hypocrite. Don't rightfully condemn business and then hypocritically condemn regulation. You are not going to have it both ways.

And when you respond DO NOT make this one case the entirety of my argument. I am talking long term why our economy sucks, why wages suck, why the pay gap has exploded, why more people are dependent on government when they don't want to be. Because of the climate of extraction. Because of a rigged game that allows shit like this to happen. Because your voting habits value selfishness rather than a business climate that PREVENTS shit like this.

The mistake you keep making over and over that you do not see an economy as a diverse ecosystem. You see an economy as a resource to be exploited for self interest. Your mentality and voting habits long term cause shit like this and oil spills and stock market crashes.

So once again, your mantra is "less government", FINE sounds nice, but the ENTIRE CLIMATE, not one business not one case, BUT THE ENTIRE CLIMATE, has to self police and invest directly. But what it has no right to do is bitch when things like this happen, or when banks cause a collapse for that matter, then government steps in.

When businesses be it this meat company or a bank or an oil company fucks up someone has to step in. WE have a right to react to businesses fucking up no matter what kind of business it is.

So please take your utopia Ayn Rand garbage and stuff it.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Beyond Saving
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 Obviously regulation

 Obviously regulation didn't prevent "shit like this" the UK does have significant levels of food regulation. You can't prevent criminal activity before it happens, the best you can do is catch it after it happens and punish the people responsible. All of the licensing and requirements that makes it impossible for anyone without a significant amount of money to sell meat for human consumption did nothing to prevent it from reaching the market. 

All of the financial regulations did not prevent the housing collapse (I argue that the regulations actually exacerbated it), all the regulations on oil drilling did not stop the BP spill. You can regulate until you are blue in the face and it isn't going to prevent it, and often aids it since most regulations are written by the very corporations that plan on abusing the system. Madoff got away with it for so long because his office produced so much paperwork that was required by all those regulations that no one at the SEC bothered to actually read it. He filed papers that blatantly showed his fraud. Meanwhile, honest business people spend billions every year to stay on top of the paperwork and many of them get fined and punished for honest mistakes like forgetting to file some form on time or filling one out wrong even though there was no underlying crime. Kids with lemonade stands get shut down and fined because *gasp* their stand isn't sanitary according to the government. It is ridiculous.  

Does the government have some role in randomly testing products sent to market to prevent fraud? Sure. I have no problem with that, nor have I ever argued against it (in a US context I have argued that such inspections should be done by state governments rather than the federal government). But the reality is that those types of regulations make up a few hundred pages of the hundreds of thousands of pages of regulations that exist. Does the government have a role in deciding that eating horse should be illegal? No. Does the government have a role in deciding that soda can't be sold in containers larger than 16 oz? No. Does the government have a role in banning the interstate sale of raw milk? No. Does the government have a role in licensing who can or can't sell a particular product? No. Does the government have a role in telling me who I can and who I can't buy insurance from? No.   

I have never said that we should have a country with no regulations. I am not an anarchist. I have been very specific about exactly which regulations I support and exactly which ones I do not, which is more than I can say for you. Every issue you wrap as a "climate" issue and when you speak of regulations you simply say we need more without specifically saying exactly what those regulations should say. You constantly misrepresent my position, when I point out a bad law you return with "What do you want? No laws at all?" as if the only two choices are any bad law that our politicians come up with or no law at all. Just like the gun control issue, you are incapable of talking about anything specific and cowardly cloak yourself in generalities that mean nothing while steadfastly refusing to specifically address any topic. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I'd say we need fewer, but

I'd say we need fewer, but better, regulations. And some motivation and sufficient resources for inspectors to actually inspect. Without warning. Usually a company will get notified when they're going to be inspected, which allows companies who are breaking rules to get away with it.
And inspectors tend to be understaffed and overworked, meaning they can't do their jobs.

And a lot of rules are blatantly stupid and should be done away with.

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