Why would an omnipotent god need couriers?

julio
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Why would an omnipotent god need couriers?

That is couriers to go deliver his so-called important message! It is explained that those couriers [agents] are called up in clear terms, but the message is always in code! How can an omnipotent deity explain this?...

No gods with indirect messages to me.


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julio wrote:That is couriers

julio wrote:

That is couriers to go deliver his so-called important message! It is explained that those couriers [agents] are called up in clear terms, but the message is always in code! How can an omnipotent deity explain this?...

This question is not new, but I do like the word "couriers" and have not heard it as of yet put it like this.

Why would a god need any mortal to do anything for it, much less act as a messenger? If it needs help then it cannot be all powerful.

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Hey Brian

Hey Brian

Brian37 wrote:

julio wrote:
. .

 

Why would the gods need any mortal to do anything for it . . .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zanZFMqG75
 
 

  Departing a bit from the original question (on purpose), in the time before Monotheism. The 'gods' were looking for a solution, to free up some of their time.  According to the myth in the Atrahasis, written before the 17th Century BCE (on the other end of the calender dateline ), A pressing need arose to end the suffering and drudgery of the gods.  Drones (that would be modern man)  were created, not exclusively by  Mami, to do the work for them,  THEN later to attend their temples and sacred spaces of  the  gods. Hope that's not messy with your heart in any ill way. (consult the Atrahasis)

                                                                                                                                                                        Must dash, toodle pip


 


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danatemporary wrote:Hey

danatemporary wrote:

Hey Brian

Brian37 wrote:

julio wrote:
. .

 

Why would the gods need any mortal to do anything for it . . .

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zanZFMqG75
 
 

  Departing a bit from the original question (on purpose), in the time before Monotheism. The 'gods' were looking for a solution, to free up some of their time.  According to the myth in the Atrahasis, written before the 17th Century BCE (on the other end of the calender dateline ), A pressing need arose to end the suffering and drudgery of the gods.  Drones (that would be modern man)  were created, not exclusively by  Mami, to do the work for them,  THEN later to attend their temples and sacred spaces of  the  gods. Hope that's not messy with your heart in any ill way. (consult the Atrahasis)

                                                                                                                                                                        Must dash, toodle pip

You are always filled with some awesome insight or wisdom. Please don't stop.

 


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"The God of Abraham is a

"The God of Abraham is a vague, illiterate and ignorant creation of man. It belongs among those stories of easter bunnies, santa claus, fairies and unicorns."

I accept that without reserve, Digital.
But to go argue it with those dishonest "couriers" or religious merchants is another thing!

If they define an almighty with a fantastic collection of attributes, why would that almighty need them [the agents]?!...

...

This happened to me the other day:
I was approached by a Russellite [follower of Charles Russell, a Jehovah's Witness] who told me he had a message from Jehovah to me.
I asked him two question:
Is Jehovah an omnipotent god?
And, do you think I'm an intelligent man?
Answered yes to both.
Then I asked him why would such a god need couriers to deliver his message?
He mumbled something and left.
Did not give me time to tell him to go see a psychiatrist and check the brain cells, the idiot.

No gods with indirect messages to me.


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Frankly, this is a real

Frankly, this is a real irritation of mine. When you read the bible you see people experiencing direct communication with the divine and many times near undeniable miracles. I am told Jesus/God loves me more than anyone could imagine and he does not want me to burn in hell. So I dare ask him for some personal attention then nada. I am supposed to be content with some jumbled ancient easily misinterpreted writings. Even those don't appear to be that unusual, nothing that really separates them from other human writings. Jesus didn't do or say anything original as Solomon wrote "Nothing new under the sun."
But the upside it has convinced me that Christianity is man-made. Nothing more simplistic to say about it and nothing more damning.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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Now I will dust off my

Now I will dust off my christian hat and give an answer as they would.
As you know when adam and eve sinned they were cast out of gods presence. Not that he wanted to (for an omnipotent being he has a number of things he cannot do-but he makes up the silly rules), but we would we would spontaneously explode if he was near us. So god could not communicate with us directly. He had to use sinful humans to talk to sinful humans. (How those guys didn't explode I don't know). The coding part can be explained in two ways. 1) Sinful man cannot understand godly things. You have to believe first and the Holy Ghost will explain it to you. 2) God deliberately confounds the wise of this world. He codes his words so only the foolish understand. (this is why fundies are anti-education, anti-science).

It all is so unsatisfying. He says he loves us deeply, but as the saying goes "I cannot hear what you are saying over what you are doing".

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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Good analogy, ex. "The

Good analogy, ex.

"The Fall" epic is incredibly short of intelligent value.
As you say, Jehovah made the rules to speak in code, but he bent them by speaking clear to his couriers!
It does not support divine integrity, I'm afraid.
The whole "Plan" is a dishonouring mess.

No gods with indirect messages to me.


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One other not so subtle

One other not so subtle trickery except for the credulous is "Obey God, not man". The book was written by man.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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julio wrote:"The God of

julio wrote:
"The God of Abraham is a vague, illiterate and ignorant creation of man. It belongs among those stories of easter bunnies, santa claus, fairies and unicorns."

I accept that without reserve, Digital. But to go argue it with those dishonest "couriers" or religious merchants is another thing! If they define an almighty with a fantastic collection of attributes, why would that almighty need them [the agents]?!...

... This happened to me the other day: I was approached by a Russellite [follower of Charles Russell, a Jehovah's Witness] who told me he had a message from Jehovah to me. I asked him two question: Is Jehovah an omnipotent god? And, do you think I'm an intelligent man? Answered yes to both. Then I asked him why would such a god need couriers to deliver his message? He mumbled something and left. Did not give me time to tell him to go see a psychiatrist and check the brain cells, the idiot.

 

Your wanting to discuss my "sig"??

 

 


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The entire "courier" thing

The entire "courier" thing with religion goes back to the days when medicine men used their "direct connection to the gods" as a way of controlling the weak minded. They would tell people that they were the only ones who could speak to the gods and that they would give the information as needed.

A complete game of control. When you have all the "information" coming from the god to the people you are the conduit. You become important and special within the community. That is until there is some calamity which you can't control then you become the scapegoat.

I remember growing up in the Catholic church environment and being told that only the priests could speak directly to god. If we wanted an answer from god we had to go to the priest to get a reply.

 

 


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ex-minister wrote: One other

ex-minister wrote:
One other not so subtle trickery except for the credulous is "Obey God, not man". The book was written by man.

Yes. As far as I'm concerned, the Christian God has no integrity credentials: bad plan, suspicious couriers, toxic results!

No gods with indirect messages to me.


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julio wrote:ex-minister

julio wrote:

ex-minister wrote:
One other not so subtle trickery except for the credulous is "Obey God, not man". The book was written by man.

Yes. As far as I'm concerned, the Christian God has no integrity credentials: bad plan, suspicious couriers, toxic results!

There is no Christian god, or Hindu god  or Muslim god. There are just credulous people as part as a flawed species that has flawed perceptions that lead them to believe in such fictitious beings.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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yes

What doesn't makes sense is that within a short period of time these humans fell. Like if I were to have built a car and it broke down within the first 200 miles im guessing there was something wrong with the way i built it. ha it just does not make sense to me. If there was a fruit, i bet it tasted damn good.

Eternity wouldn't be much of an experience.


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Brian37 wrote: julio

Brian37 wrote:

julio wrote:

ex-minister wrote:
One other not so subtle trickery except for the credulous is "Obey God, not man". The book was written by man.

Yes. As far as I'm concerned, the Christian God has no integrity credentials: bad plan, suspicious couriers, toxic results!

There is no Christian god, or Hindu god  or Muslim god. There are just credulous people as part as a flawed species that has flawed perceptions that lead them to believe in such fictitious beings.

True.
I reject faiths, especially the violent ones.

No gods with indirect messages to me.


A_Nony_Mouse
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.

And why do the couriers always demand to be tipped?

 


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.

ex-minister wrote:
Even those don't appear to be that unusual, nothing that really separates them from other human writings. Jesus didn't do or say anything original as Solomon wrote "Nothing new under the sun." But the upside it has convinced me that Christianity is man-made. Nothing more simplistic to say about it and nothing more damning.

But you exemplify one of the problems in that few people go "all in" when talking about bible crap. "as Solomon wrote"? How can a myth write anything? Even otherwise secular sources will contain things like "in the time of Abraham."

The entire mythology is hopelessly entangled with what otherwise appears to be reality.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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The difficult questions that

The difficult questions that start with "why would He" will be a constant stumbling block if we let them be. They can only be filled with speculation because God's ways are not our ways. But first I want to emphasize that ministry is not only about talking about God, or telling you who He is. Many forms of ministry are simply trying to help those who need it. My understanding is that after trying to help someone out of a particular hole they find themselves in life, if you want to show them the way to keep from falling in it again, then it's time for the message.

Why doesn't God just miracle people out of the situations that are breaking them? It really does go back to Adam and Eve, like someone was mentioning, but it has nothing to do with our heads exploding. It has more to do with having the ability to think for ourselves and exercising our free will. The imperfect world we live in is less of a punishment and more of a result of the human condition. I think it should be viewed as such. We are free to explore our passions and live in sin if we feel like. Everything is permissible, not everything is beneficial.  We needn't be resentful at the condition of this world, but grateful for the life we are given.

We are promised a time when God will be clearly visible for everyone, but now is not it.


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Labrat28 wrote:The difficult

Labrat28 wrote:

The difficult questions that start with "why would He" will be a constant stumbling block if we let them be. They can only be filled with speculation because God's ways are not our ways. But first I want to emphasize that ministry is not only about talking about God, or telling you who He is. Many forms of ministry are simply trying to help those who need it. My understanding is that after trying to help someone out of a particular hole they find themselves in life, if you want to show them the way to keep from falling in it again, then it's time for the message.

Why doesn't God just miracle people out of the situations that are breaking them? It really does go back to Adam and Eve, like someone was mentioning, but it has nothing to do with our heads exploding. It has more to do with having the ability to think for ourselves and exercising our free will. The imperfect world we live in is less of a punishment and more of a result of the human condition. I think it should be viewed as such. We are free to explore our passions and live in sin if we feel like. Everything is permissible, not everything is beneficial.  We needn't be resentful at the condition of this world, but grateful for the life we are given.

Ah the "God works in mysterious ways" argument. Why do you operate under the assumption that such a being would necessarily be smart? Perhaps God is just an idiot- which if he were real as the bible describes him I think would be a rather obvious conclusion. Just because an entity is powerful does not mean that it is smart, nor does it mean that entity deserves worship. 

 

Labrat28 wrote:
 

We are promised a time when God will be clearly visible for everyone, but now is not it.

But he is still going to torture me for eternity in hell because he is not clearly visible to me? Do you think it is wise or kind for a being to torture people for not believing in him when he intentionally hides? Would you torture me for eternity just for not believing in you? Oh, wait god works in "mysterious ways".

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I believe Him to be not

I believe Him to be not smart, but omniscient. This is apparent when psychologists tell us little exercises they just discovered that will make us happy that have been written in the bible for thousands of years. But whether or not you choose to seek Him is entirely your choice, it isn't for me to decide or for Him. Our decisions carry consequences, does that mean we should not be allowed to make decisions, or He should intervene in order to allow us to escape those consequences?

Should we blame Him when we're dealt a bad hand? It would be the same as blaming our parents, without which we wouldn't have been born. Do you see the futility of that? But that is why it isn't good to speculate on the "how come he didn't" or the "why didn't he just" or "why did he 'x' when, if he's all powerful he could have 'y'." Inspiration, through faith may provide an answer, but usually it provides an acceptance. Either way it nullifies the conflict.


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Labrat28 wrote:I believe Him

Labrat28 wrote:

I believe Him to be not smart, but omniscient. This is apparent when psychologists tell us little exercises they just discovered that will make us happy that have been written in the bible for thousands of years. But whether or not you choose to seek Him is entirely your choice, it isn't for me to decide or for Him. Our decisions carry consequences, does that mean we should not be allowed to make decisions, or He should intervene in order to allow us to escape those consequences?

Should we blame Him when we're dealt a bad hand? It would be the same as blaming our parents, without which we wouldn't have been born. Do you see the futility of that? But that is why it isn't good to speculate on the "how come he didn't" or the "why didn't he just" or "why did he 'x' when, if he's all powerful he could have 'y'." Inspiration, through faith may provide an answer, but usually it provides an acceptance. Either way it nullifies the conflict.

I'm not blaming him for anything except his supposed actions. According to your book I am going to suffer eternal torment because I do not believe in him (because I have seen no evidence and yes I have looked). You can bet that if my parents tied me up in the basement and lit the house on fire I would blame them for that action too.  

Why do you worship a being that you believe tortures people for eternity simply for not believing he exists? Especially when as you point out that God is not now clearly visible to everyone, but presumably has the power to be visible if he chose. Can you live with yourself for eternity in bliss knowing that many people you probably know here on Earth are suffering for eternity down in the basement? 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Labrat28 wrote:I believe Him

Labrat28 wrote:

I believe Him to be not smart, but omniscient. This is apparent when psychologists tell us little exercises they just discovered that will make us happy that have been written in the bible for thousands of years. But whether or not you choose to seek Him is entirely your choice, it isn't for me to decide or for Him. Our decisions carry consequences, does that mean we should not be allowed to make decisions, or He should intervene in order to allow us to escape those consequences?

Should we blame Him when we're dealt a bad hand? It would be the same as blaming our parents, without which we wouldn't have been born. Do you see the futility of that? But that is why it isn't good to speculate on the "how come he didn't" or the "why didn't he just" or "why did he 'x' when, if he's all powerful he could have 'y'." Inspiration, through faith may provide an answer, but usually it provides an acceptance. Either way it nullifies the conflict.

i used to use that analogy as an evangelical.  that's how i know it's false.  there are several obvious problems:

1. our parents are not omnipotent, and if they were, they would probably not let us suffer.  how often do parents say, "oh honey, if i could i'd give you the moon, blah blah blah..."

2. our parents do not create our circumstances.  god supposedly does.  he makes the rules of the game, then creates us with the capacity to fall short.  sounds more like b.f. skinner with his rats than a loving parent.

3. almost every parent accepts the fact that one day the parameters they set for us will no longer be adequate for our development, and most believe that's a good thing.  in other words, many parents are downright proud when their children assert themselves.  the christian god is not.  he set a gold standard of perfection and increasingly reminds us that the only thing we've managed to do is fuck it up.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:And why

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

And why do the couriers always demand to be tipped?

 

For the same reason you want your land back, sense of entitlement. It is one thing to say "you hurt me", it is another to milk that forever.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Labrat28 wrote:They can only

Labrat28 wrote:
They can only be filled with speculation because God's ways are not our ways.

How does anyone ever buy this pure bs?
This god is so superior, yet either cannot or will not communicate on our level despite knowing our level of awareness? Pure crap.

If your god was all you claimed to be, there would be some kind of proof. It wouldn't make a crap tonne of rules and then not deliver them to everyone everywhere.

Some people lie, and others aren't necessarily liars, per se, but are still wrong. Best logical conclusion: Don't trust ANYONE blindly. Even good and well meaning people can be horribly wrong.

Why would god use the LEAST effective possible medium to communicate with us? Pissing his name in a snowbank would be more convincing.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Let's take God out of the

Let's take God out of the equation for a minute.

To believe someone has wronged you, and it being outside your control and failing to accept it and move on is resentment.

To believe that you should be treated a certain way and to have an expectation that is not going to be met, or to believe that things should be different while still having no control to change it is entitlement.

Both of these are exercises in futility that lead us only to distress and wasted time which would have been much more wisely invested.

That's why no matter what you believe in, it's pointless to ask why things are the way they are.

Now let's add God to the equation again.

This is why He tells us not to ask why things are the way they are.[Romans 9:20] This isn't part of some conspiracy, it's part of His wisdom and plan to give us life abundant; it would be impossible if we spent our days fruitlessly examining His work instead of participating in it.


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My hypothesis is far more

My hypothesis is far more logical:
Some people are assholes.

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Vastet wrote:My hypothesis

Vastet wrote:
My hypothesis is far more logical: Some people are assholes.

And one could only conclude that the character "God" as a literary character can only be considered an asshole. If humans behaved like the god depicted, they would be monsters, unfortunately some assholes do become monsters because of such a horrible character.

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RE: Oh, Dont we know people .. (Don't we ??)

Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
My hypothesis is far more logical: Some people are assholes.

And one could only conclude that the character "God" as a literary character can only be considered an asshole. If humans behaved like the god depicted, they would be monsters, unfortunately some assholes do become monsters because of such a horrible character.

  Oh, Dont we all know people who act like the warped and twisted concept of their own constructions ? Dont we ??

 

 

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julio wrote:That is couriers

julio wrote:

That is couriers to go deliver his so-called important message! It is explained that those couriers [agents] are called up in clear terms, but the message is always in code! How can an omnipotent deity explain this?...

God says "Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet you shall be white as snow."
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julio wrote:That is couriers

julio wrote:

That is couriers to go deliver his so-called important message! It is explained that those couriers [agents] are called up in clear terms, but the message is always in code! How can an omnipotent deity explain this?...

God says "Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet you shall be white as snow."
www.truthiswhatmatters.com & www.bibledoor.com


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Missing what is happening.. curious Nu. 28 ????

 

 

  ?

 Nu. 28

 


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Missing what is happening.. curious Nu. 29 ????

 

  ?

 Nu. 29