Why Aren't the Copts Allowed to Be Outraged At Their Vilification By Muslims?

Atheistextremist
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Why Aren't the Copts Allowed to Be Outraged At Their Vilification By Muslims?

 

I’ve been reading the commentary in the papers from apologists for the islamic protesters attacking cops here on the weekend as part of the anti-film protests. Muslims are reacting to wider oppression, it’s not really about the film, in fact it’s all about the infidels, they insist. Islamophobia. The drones. The jews. Afghanistan. Osama. America. Whoever and whatever other gormless attempt at ‘helping’ muslims gets dreamed up by idealists in the alliance of the deluded. It's them, not us. 

But no one is asking whether or not the film was inspired by the relentless and violent oppression of the Egyptian Coptic community, which is routinely beaten up and its churches burned. If muslim reaction to oppression is considered justifiable, why is coptic reaction to oppression considered reprehensible? What’s the difference?

I’ve come to think that broad deism, or pantheism, the idea there is some unknown higher power, is a perfectly good way to rationalise our sentient existence on a speck of dust in the abyss. Some people need this. Let them have it. But religions which insist they are right, claim on the basis of no proof that dissenters are in league with satan and will be burned alive, beheaded, tortured – this includes all three monotheistic faiths – should face censorship. 

All threats, belittling of unbelievers, attempts to dehumanise, appeals to force on behalf of naked assertions should be excised from the texts and banned by law. Before anyone says this breaches freedom of expression, I could not found an atheistic creed that espoused insults, hatred, torture and murder of jews, christians or muslims. Yet their doctrines are considered sacred despite the profound vileness of them. They are immune to morality. 

I just had to get that of my chest....Oh, and I watched the whole movie. Personally, I think there are things in the Koran itself that insult the integrity of prophet more than that pathetic drivel. 

   

 

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Vastet
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I think the people you

I think the people you suggest should be censored should not be, but they should be charged and imprisoned. Harassment and threats are illegal activities. Every single person who holds a sign saying 'behead those who insult the prophet' or 'kill abortionists' or anything should be locked away until they can demonstrate sanity and humanity.

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iwbiek
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Atheistextremist wrote:If

Atheistextremist wrote:

If muslim reaction to oppression is considered justifiable, why is coptic reaction to oppression considered reprehensible? What’s the difference?

copts don't have a reputation for blowing shit up and cutting people's heads off, so nobody's scared of them.  that's all it is.  our government's reaction to that film was purely, 100% fear-based.  period.  we're all so fucking afraid of dying, we're ready to say anything to those cowardly fucks.  cowards afraid of cowards.  i fucking hate my species so much.

i get so angry when some talking head comes on the news and says, "this film should never have been made, blah blah blah..."  WHY THE FUCK NOT???  does the man have the right to make it in the US or doesn't he?  who cares if his motivation was solely to piss off muslims?  doesn't the fucking constitution protect our right to piss people off?  so tell those fist-shaking, sign-waving, flag-burning, towel-headed pieces of shit to GET THE FUCK OVER IT.  we have freedoms in our country.  a person can make any film they want.  so plan our demise all you want, it won't change shit!  it's not the government's fucking prerogative to apologize to the rest of the world for our liberties or to say what kind of art "should" or "should not" be made.

why are we all so fucking afraid of dying?  if those fuckwads ever get me for saying their dead prophet was a prepubescent-girl-fucking, dishonest, conniving, illiterate, epileptic, murdering FRAUD, they might as well go ahead and cut my fucking head off right away, turn the camera on, let's do this, because i'm just gonna laugh at them.  and i don't mean laugh at them because i "laugh in the face of death" or some macho bullshit--believe me, i would be pissing my pants in terror--but i would laugh for the same reason franz kafka used to laugh uncontrollably when reading particularly bleak scenes from the trial aloud to his friends: in the face of such sheer absurdity, what else can an honest person do?

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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iwbiek wrote:copts don't

iwbiek wrote:

copts don't have a reputation for blowing shit up and cutting people's heads off, so nobody's scared of them.  that's all it is.  our government's reaction to that film was purely, 100% fear-based.  period.  we're all so fucking afraid of dying, we're ready to say anything to those cowardly fucks.  cowards afraid of cowards.  i fucking hate my species so much.

i get so angry when some talking head comes on the news and says, "this film should never have been made, blah blah blah..."  WHY THE FUCK NOT???  does the man have the right to make it in the US or doesn't he?  who cares if his motivation was solely to piss off muslims?  doesn't the fucking constitution protect our right to piss people off?  so tell those fist-shaking, sign-waving, flag-burning, towel-headed pieces of shit to GET THE FUCK OVER IT.  we have freedoms in our country.  a person can make any film they want.  so plan our demise all you want, it won't change shit!  it's not the government's fucking prerogative to apologize to the rest of the world for our liberties or to say what kind of art "should" or "should not" be made.

why are we all so fucking afraid of dying?  if those fuckwads ever get me for saying their dead prophet was a prepubescent-girl-fucking, dishonest, conniving, illiterate, epileptic, murdering FRAUD, they might as well go ahead and cut my fucking head off right away, turn the camera on, let's do this, because i'm just gonna laugh at them.  and i don't mean laugh at them because i "laugh in the face of death" or some macho bullshit--believe me, i would be pissing my pants in terror--but i would laugh for the same reason franz kafka used to laugh uncontrollably when reading particularly bleak scenes from the trial aloud to his friends: in the face of such sheer absurdity, what else can an honest person do?

I am in full agreement again. Fuck Islam.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Atheistextremist wrote:  If

Atheistextremist wrote:

  If muslim reaction to oppression is considered justifiable, why is coptic reaction to oppression considered reprehensible? What’s the difference?

One group uses deadly force the other does not.

It is quite disgusting and unconstitutional how Obama, Hillary Clinton and our embassies are "condemning" the anti-Islamic movie.

movie.http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/12978651-hillary-clinton-condemns-antimuslim-film-stresses-religious-tolerance

Hillary is even going around lecturing Muslims on how to practice their relgion and who is a true Muslim. This is only going to inflame them more to have an American infidel lecture them on Islam. She should have instead used this as a teaching moment to explain our first amendment. That our government is not supposed to condone nor condemn anyones free speech, religious or anti-religious views.

Instead the lesson they learn is that violence and threats work. So Atheist groups are next on the hit list.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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Because Arab Christians

Because Arab Christians don't believe in the same invisible sky daddy Muslims do, dispite the fact that both do believe in an invisilbe sky daddy. So the issue is time. Christians have been laughed at and ridiculed in a more open manor than the east has. 200 years is the difference.

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ex-minister
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I heard that the violent

I heard that the violent muslims don't get the internet or the first amendment. They are so controlled they think everyone in the US us likewise controlled. IOW the video could not have been available without the governments approval, so they blame not the ones responsible for the video but the US. It is a monotheist way of looking at the world.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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Yep

ex-minister wrote:
I heard that the violent muslims don't get the internet or the first amendment. They are so controlled they think everyone in the US us likewise controlled. IOW the video could not have been available without the governments approval, so they blame not the ones responsible for the video but the US. It is a monotheist way of looking at the world.

This summarises that quite well.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/why-muslim-leaders-and-the-west-are-worlds-apart-20120921-26c9l.html

extract:

But the attacks on US and other Western embassies this week have surely demonstrated that the absence of understanding cuts both ways. The ''Orientalists'' lambasted by Edward Said have their mirror image in the Middle East, particularly among those who fail to grasp the basic characteristics of a free society.

Morsi appears to fall into this category. When he told Obama how angry he was over the YouTube film, did he not realise he was rebuking the wrong target? Obama had already made clear his revulsion over the video. No one has seriously suggested that the US government had anything to do with this absurd production. The President of the United States cannot be held responsible for the thoughts, opinions and actions of 300 million Americans. Nor, in a free society, can he ban his citizens from expressing themselves, even if they sometimes do so in crass and offensive ways.

 

 


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ex-minister wrote:I heard

ex-minister wrote:
I heard that the violent muslims don't get the internet or the first amendment. They are so controlled they think everyone in the US us likewise controlled. IOW the video could not have been available without the governments approval, so they blame not the ones responsible for the video but the US. It is a monotheist way of looking at the world.

So instead of going to war with the Muslim world, we should give them all I phones.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:ex-minister

EXC wrote:

ex-minister wrote:
I heard that the violent muslims don't get the internet or the first amendment. They are so controlled they think everyone in the US us likewise controlled. IOW the video could not have been available without the governments approval, so they blame not the ones responsible for the video but the US. It is a monotheist way of looking at the world.

So instead of going to war with the Muslim world, we should give them all I phones.

 

Actually, yes.  Talking directly with people from other countries would go a long way to stopping some of the violence.  It wouldn't hurt for some people from industrialized countries to do the same.

I'm a great believer in education, information, and communication.  I know it won't solve everything, but I also know it sure wouldn't hurt.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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Agreed. Greater access to

Agreed. Greater access to global communications and libraries would be instrumental in helping muslims shift into the era of enlightenment.

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Atheistextremist
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Actually

 

 

free university degrees in any subject for all muslim women would be a thing. Educated muslim women in the ME are increasingly refusing to marry, and apparently, they are moving into communal houses and chaperoning each other. On that topic, Iran has just forced all universities to deny muslim women access to 77 university topics including education, engineering and many more. Maybe we should open a dialogue with muslim women. They can't want to be driven about like sheep. 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

 

free university degrees in any subject for all muslim women would be a thing. Educated muslim women in the ME are increasingly refusing to marry, and apparently, they are moving into communal houses and chaperoning each other. On that topic, Iran has just forced all universities to deny muslim women access to 77 university topics including education, engineering and many more. Maybe we should open a dialogue with muslim women. They can't want to be driven about like sheep. 

 

 

I think that would be a great idea.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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While there certainly have

While there certainly have been a rash of violence in the East, the reports I have been seeing are that the majority of protests have been non violent. AND I also saw that some Lybians stormed Muslim militia compounds demanding they dissarm.

Im not saying it is all peaches and cream, but their are cracks that seem to be taking hold

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Atheistextremist
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Yeah I saw this, too.

Brian37 wrote:

While there certainly have been a rash of violence in the East, the reports I have been seeing are that the majority of protests have been non violent. AND I also saw that some Lybians stormed Muslim militia compounds demanding they dissarm.

Im not saying it is all peaches and cream, but their are cracks that seem to be taking hold

 

Good on the Libyans, standing up to armed militias with nothing but "Stevens was our friend" banners in the hands... 

I've also been wondering lately if this frission is not exactly what we have to have. What we should expect to have. Even what we need to have.

In demanding toleration and freedom for their religious expression, internal moral consistency demands islam extend this toleration to others.

Well. Perhaps not. But it's a nice idea, anyway. And it worked over the 100 odd years of the enlightenment. 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Some hope

I've been slightly pleasantly surprised by the way this has been handled in Australia. In general, the Muslim leadership has tried to distance themselves from the violence.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/two-steps-forward-one-step-back-20120920-2699f.html