"You didn't build that" Dishonest right wing bullshit!

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"You didn't build that" Dishonest right wing bullshit!

The rethuglican party is deliberately lying about Obama's speech about business when he said "You didn't build that".

A business owner DOES NOT build the roads their products get shipped to them on. He does not fix the trucks the products get shipped on. He does not sweep the factory floor or clean the bathrooms. He does not run the register or stock the shelves.

ALL Obama was saying is that it is physically impossible to do everything by yourself. If you start a business you have to rely on EVERYTHING in society, from the teachers who educate your employees, to the cops who keep your society safe for business, to the clerk who handles your register.

NOWHERE did he say "I want to outlaw business and end the private sector". What he said and they damned well know it is "We are all in this together". Saying that the rich are not the only class in this country is not saying we hate wealth.

I AM SO FUCKING SICK OF THAT BULLSHIT AND THAT LIE HAS TO STOP!

Obama is not demonizing success, he is saying that when you get to that point, both hard work and luck, and standing on the shoulders of those below you get you there, and you should take those below you into more account. NOWHERE did he say all rich people are bad or that the private sector is bad.

 

I am sick of the rich pretending I don't do shit to make my boss rich. I don't care that he is, I do care that the middle class and working poor, who do the work that make the rich rich, get treated like shit as if we don't contribute anything.

If it were not for the bulk of the work being done by the middle class and working poor the rich would not be rich. No one is saying be poor and stay poor. We are merely saying there is more than one class and the rich are not the only fucking class. They are merely ONE part of what makes our economy and they should not forget those who helped them get to be successful. JADEDNESS is the fucking problem.

FUCKING KNOCK IT OFF YOU FUCKING LIERS!

If any rich person reading this thinks they can do everything all by themselves, then move to a deserted Island and do the same thing. Otherwise do not look down at those below you. You are not fucking special because you have money, you are no more or no less important than any other human that contributes to society. ALL THREE CLASSES ARE NEEDED, NO ONE IS LOOKING FOR A NANNY STATE except maybe for the corporate welfare state "of the rich for the rich and by the rich".

MINDSET and attitude are the fucking problem, not wealth!

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:The

Brian37 wrote:

The rethuglican party is deliberately lying about Obama's speech about business when he said "You didn't build that".

 

Welcome to the world of advertising!

If you think you got it bad, I live in Denver now, constant barrage of Ads from both sides.

I only watch TV using the DVR now. They know this, so the saturate the local news with political ads to try and influence.

If I hear, "Shame on you Barack Obama" one more time. . . . .or "You didn't Build it.."......

or . . . .

Brian37 wrote:

A business owner DOES NOT build the roads their products get shipped to them on. He does not fix the trucks the products get shipped on. He does not sweep the factory floor or clean the bathrooms. He does not run the register or stock the shelves.

As both an employee - I worked for 20 years at a computer peripherals company as a design engineer and an engineering manager and then  as a "job creator" - I owned several tanning salons, I understand both sides of this.

As an employee - I took cash to do the job for the company. My reward was the cash. When I was outstanding I got bonus cash and perks.

The owners and the executives running the company supposedly get rewarded for the risk they take.

Though in the case of the executives, the risk and the rewards many times are not fair.

When I worked at the computer company, it went into bankruptcy. The original founders were dumped, CEO, President etc. The stockholders got screwed, including many employees who despite the obvious signs kept their money in the stock and the profit sharing plan. In this case the loss sharing plan. Fortunately, the amount of stock in it was limited.

In came the saviors. What they did was allow us paid employees to develop the great ideas we had already proto-typed and created.

And what happened? The new technology WE developed, already underway before the saviors showed up, brought great rewards to the company.

The saviors got big bucks and multi-million dollar bonuses.

We got plaques and recognized at a dinner plus our normal salary.

Fair?

Yep, we could leave at any point. Many did and took their ideas to our competition. This company no longer exists, it was merged into a much larger company, followed by an even larger merger.

As a "job creator" I had several tanning salons. Over the years I had dozens of employees. I paid a fair wage. I was always in competition with others. In the end, it wasn't the competition that got me, but the landlord's desire for higher returns on his investment.

 

Brian37 wrote:

ALL Obama was saying is that it is physically impossible to do everything by yourself. If you start a business you have to rely on EVERYTHING in society, from the teachers who educate your employees, to the cops who keep your society safe for business, to the clerk who handles your register.

Exactly!!!

Brian37 wrote:

NOWHERE did he say "I want to outlaw business and end the private sector". What he said and they damned well know it is "We are all in this together". Saying that the rich are not the only class in this country is not saying we hate wealth.

I AM SO FUCKING SICK OF THAT BULLSHIT AND THAT LIE HAS TO STOP!

 

You and me both!

Political ads should be held to Truth in Advertising Laws.  - Never will that happen though, freedom of speech.

Brian37 wrote:

Obama is not demonizing success, he is saying that when you get to that point, both hard work and luck, and standing on the shoulders of those below you get you there, and you should take those below you into more account. NOWHERE did he say all rich people are bad or that the private sector is bad.

 

I am sick of the rich pretending I don't do shit to make my boss rich. I don't care that he is, I do care that the middle class and working poor, who do the work that make the rich rich, get treated like shit as if we don't contribute anything.

If it were not for the bulk of the work being done by the middle class and working poor the rich would not be rich. No one is saying be poor and stay poor. We are merely saying there is more than one class and the rich are not the only fucking class. They are merely ONE part of what makes our economy and they should not forget those who helped them get to be successful. JADEDNESS is the fucking problem.

 

Again we agree.

Some of us no longer wish to be stressed out chasing a buck. These days I do taxes for a national chain, as the big bucks "job creators" forced me out of my business in pursuit of higher returns. The owner of the shopping center I had my tanning salon, demolished it to rebuild into a larger newer center. But the joke was on him, he couldn't get a construction loan and 4 years later it is still empty vacant land.

Brian37 wrote:

FUCKING KNOCK IT OFF YOU FUCKING LIERS!

Don't hold your breath, use the mute button on your TV or watch only with a DVR and speed through the shit.

Brian37 wrote:

If any rich person reading this thinks they can do everything all by themselves, then move to a deserted Island and do the same thing. Otherwise do not look down at those below you. You are not fucking special because you have money, you are no more or no less important than any other human that contributes to society. ALL THREE CLASSES ARE NEEDED, NO ONE IS LOOKING FOR A NANNY STATE except maybe for the corporate welfare state "of the rich for the rich and by the rich".

MINDSET and attitude are the fucking problem, not wealth!

 

They would starve to death in a week.

The whole crux of the Romney argument for me fails at go. 8 years of Bush helped to create the mess we have, though it started far earlier then him. The corporations desire to maximize returns moved manufacturing out of the US and into China, India, etc. This started while I was at the computer company in the 1980s. Until the US brings manufacturing back in the US things will not improve.

Romney was involved with this to some extent no matter how much he denies it. He left Bain in 1999 or not, matters little, he helped make the mess we have by his actions.

Is the solution then to bring in one of those that helped create the mess?

Not for me.

Most everyone knows what the problem is in the US. No manufacturing. Can we survive on Hollywood films, porno, software and selling fast food to one another and create a great economy.

That has already been shown to fail, look where we are today.

 

 

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 I agree the comment has

 I agree the comment has for the most part been taken out of context, but it does point to a central issue. Obviously, I haven't done everything myself- I go to great lengths to do as little as possible myself. So who does it? The people I invest in and the people who work everyday. Ok fine, absolutely no one disagrees with that. Is there something inherently wrong in me profiting on that? The problem is the attitude that somehow the person I invest in or the workers are getting "screwed" and are not getting what they deserve (which Bama is plenty happy to use government to redistribute to them). They get paid, an agreed upon amount, they are not slaves, they are not forced to work. The people who built roads, bridges etc. people who teach, police, all get paid for their work. Sure, lots of people helped, some more than others, and they all got paid mutually agreed upon amounts, those that help me a lot get paid a lot more than those who help a little. 

It is clear that Obama believes that those who make large amounts of money make that money because they are lucky. If you listen to the comments prior to the one the Romney campaign focuses on Obama says (paraphrasing here) there are did they make it because they worked hard? A lot of people work hard. Did they make it because they are smarter? There are a lot of smart people....blah blah. Basically saying that the successful got successful because they were helped in some way that other people were not. IOW they got lucky. This is absurd.

I'm not saying that some people don't have additional obstacles compared to others, but the primary determinant of success is not luck nor is it hard work or intelligence. Business owners build successful businesses because they built a business that fulfills a demand. Business owners that fail built a business that failed to satisfy a demand. People who never try to build a business will never build one and therefore will not experience the positive benefits or the potential loss. If you want the potential profit that can come from building a successful business the first thing you have to do is take the risk and try. If you choose not to, I don't think you have any place to whine, or be jealous of, those who did. 

 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Quote: I agree the comment

Quote:
I agree the comment has for the most part been taken out of context, but it does point to a central issue. Obviously, I haven't done everything myself-

Ok dude, don't be a dick tease. I have been to bars where women show interest and then after I buy them a drink, they drink it and dump me. Don't give me heart palpitations.

Look, this cuts to the core of all I am saying. I know you are not a bad guy, and on an individual level maybe you do do better for your employees. But I am discussing and ENTIRE climate and attitude. If you accept that you do not do it all by yourself, that is a damned good start, but under our current conditions it is not enough. This is not about you. This is not about hating the private sector. It is about the bubble the top lives in thinking nothing they do affects the rest of us.

Having known you for years now, what I like about you the most, even moreso than other atheists and liberal believers, is that we can and do battle it out and do not take it personally. I guess if you could equate it to Jefferson and Adams who hated each other politically, but were friends outside the politics.

We really are all in this together and nothing to me is either/or and believe me, if you lost everything, who the fuck would I have to bitch at here? Theists are fun, but you are truly a minority among minorities and I love bitch slapping you as much as any theist.

I really do think you have falsely bought the Fox News economic talking points, and we keep pointing out to you when you look at the history that caused the great depression, and our current great recession, and what got us out of it, and the 30 year decline of wages vs exploding profits, the evidence is clear.

 

PAY GAP and cost of living. Once you reduce that gap all that government stuff you say we don't need, we wont need and wont ask for. So if there is no direct benefit to the worker, where would you suggest we go? We are not here as mere tools for you to use and we are the shoulders you stand on.

 

I want you to be happy and after the time I have spent here, if you didn't get to where you were at, we wouldn't be bitching at each other. Just stop looking down on the rest of us, thats all.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Quote:Business owners that

Quote:
Business owners that fail built a business that failed to satisfy a demand.

Really? You really think that even a business that does fill a demand cant fail because of MULTIPLE factors beyond their control?

That is your fucking problem. Lets not even take economics into the issue.

No one who went to that movie that night was doing a damned thing wrong, or illegal, but they still got affected by the behavior of someone.

Your black and white thinking is astounding. So by your logic, if I build a business that is successful, but is built in a Hurricane region, and my community becomes a ghost town, do I still have a buying base after that?

You simply do not want to admit that there will ALWAYS be factors in life, no matter what you do, or how many right things you do, there will ALWAYS be things out of your control. Until you realize that you will not understand what we object to.

If you chose not to invest in others and all they are are tools, you fuel the very government dependency you say most should not have, but hypocritically want every tax break you can get. If you do get what you want, even you will get affected by an entire economy, no matter how many right decisions you AS AN INDIVIDUAL make.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:I really do

Brian37 wrote:

I really do think you have falsely bought the Fox News economic talking points, and we keep pointing out to you when you look at the history that caused the great depression, and our current great recession, and what got us out of it, and the 30 year decline of wages vs exploding profits, the evidence is clear.

Keep reading my series on economic history before the great depression. I am halfway through it, maybe I'll have time to do another section today. 

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

PAY GAP and cost of living. Once you reduce that gap all that government stuff you say we don't need, we wont need and wont ask for. So if there is no direct benefit to the worker, where would you suggest we go? We are not here as mere tools for you to use and we are the shoulders you stand on.

Yet the pay gap is shrinking, is your economics getting better? Rather than worrying about what other people make you should spend more time looking at how to improve your own situation. Which worker is not getting a direct benefit? Employees are paid before the employer takes the profits which may or may not remain. Many employers go weeks without taking a significant paycheck to pay their employees first. Employees are the ones that get a direct and calculated benefit- you work Y hours and you are paid $X. The employer has no guarantee of getting paid at all. They are indirectly compensated for their efforts through the remaining profits or the increased value of their company. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

I want you to be happy and after the time I have spent here, if you didn't get to where you were at, we wouldn't be bitching at each other. Just stop looking down on the rest of us, thats all.

Where have I ever looked down on anyone? I have consistently said anyone could do what I do if they wanted to. It would be like looking down on someone because I ate a hamburger for lunch and you decided to eat chicken- anyone could eat a hamburger for lunch and there are a million different ways to get one. But if you choose not to swing by the local McD's and get a hamburger, don't be mad at me about it. You choose your lunch and I will choose mine. I don't understand the obsession with how much money other people make and I don't think it is healthy. If you want more, put effort into providing more to your fellow citizens, if you are content then what is the issue? How much money you have is the result of the decisions you made in your life, that has consistently been my position.

Who cares how much money Bill Gates has? Or what he does with it? You should be far more concerned with how the government is spending money the size of Bill Gates' entire fortune every week and that is your money, taken from you by force. Even if Bill Gates decided to blow his fortune, he could only do it once. The government does it every week. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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It deserves repeating, and

It deserves repeating, and if Nick Hanaur(sp) billionaire ran for president, he'd be the first conservative I WOULD consider voting for.

He rightfully says that the people in the middle, and the people, like me, at the bottom are the job creators. If we don't have the money to buy anything, we don't create any demand, and he also said RIGHTFULLY, that no business owner is going to hire one more person than they have to.

So the real issue is what I have been saying all along. The right hates the middle man(government) and want it out of the way. If more focus is on investing in people that middle man would not get in the way as much. But they have no right to hypocritically ask for corporate welfare and then imply the rest of us should not have the right to vote.

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Quote:You should be far more

Quote:
You should be far more concerned with how the government is spending

Yea, you mean like two wars that took a surplus and bankrupt us? You mean like the henhouse being garded by big money that turned the housing, car and banking industry into a casino? Been there, done that.

Get over your fucking stupid "spending money" CRAP. If both you and I want more efficient government, I am sorry, but what Romney is selling is the same old crap that put us in this fucking mess.

In a pluralistic society, that values diversity, all of us have to pay taxes to maintain that society, including sometimes paying for things we personally may not like.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Quote:Business

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
Business owners that fail built a business that failed to satisfy a demand.

Really? You really think that even a business that does fill a demand cant fail because of MULTIPLE factors beyond their control?

That is your fucking problem. Lets not even take economics into the issue.

No one who went to that movie that night was doing a damned thing wrong, or illegal, but they still got affected by the behavior of someone.

Your black and white thinking is astounding. So by your logic, if I build a business that is successful, but is built in a Hurricane region, and my community becomes a ghost town, do I still have a buying base after that?

You simply do not want to admit that there will ALWAYS be factors in life, no matter what you do, or how many right things you do, there will ALWAYS be things out of your control. Until you realize that you will not understand what we object to.

If you chose not to invest in others and all they are are tools, you fuel the very government dependency you say most should not have, but hypocritically want every tax break you can get. If you do get what you want, even you will get affected by an entire economy, no matter how many right decisions you AS AN INDIVIDUAL make.

Obviously if you die you are dead and owning a business is irrelevant. Being an employee is also irrelevant... shit happens to everyone be they rich, poor or whatever you are not protected from being shot or getting cancer. Such things will fuck up your life no matter what you are doing with it and it is completely irrelevant to whether or not the business succeeds because the business will be passed on to your heirs who will then be the ones to determine whether or not it succeeds. 

Also, it is perfectly possible that a business is meeting a demand and the situation changes, either you are no longer able to meet the demand at a profit or the demand no longer exists. The hurricane example is one where demand might not exist any longer for your product. A good businessman will change their business model to meet the changing conditions. Perhaps move the business elsewhere or maybe change to fill the various demands created by efforts to rebuild the area. Demand is constantly changing and one of the most challenging things is to make sure you keep adapting to meet those changing conditions. If your customer base disappears you have to change something, it may disappear dramatically or far more often, gradually over time.  

You can't prevent natural disasters such as tornadoes, hurricanes, fires etc. But a smart business person plans for such disasters. There are ways to insure your physical assets against such losses. That is why many businesses rebuild quickly after such disasters, while others are closed permanently. Most businesses that fail do not fail from such dramatic disasters. Usually they fail because they do not adapt to much more gradual changes. Either way, as long as your business is fulfilling a demand at a profitable price it will survive. 

So the economy tanks. Even in an economic downturn there is demand, the demand simply changes. As a business you might have to find ways to offer your product cheaper, reduce costs or focus on a different product. Those that adapt to demand will succeed, those who don't will fail. Those who adapt the best will make the best profits. Simply building a profitable business is no guarantee it will remain profitable forever. Another reason many businesses fail, the owners become comfortable, they chalk lower revenues up as unlucky months and ignore problems until it is too late. You can't control every obstacle you encounter, but you can control how you react to them and you can control to how well you prepare for them. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:Quote:You

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
You should be far more concerned with how the government is spending

Yea, you mean like two wars that took a surplus and bankrupt us? You mean like the henhouse being garded by big money that turned the housing, car and banking industry into a casino? Been there, done that.

Get over your fucking stupid "spending money" CRAP. If both you and I want more efficient government, I am sorry, but what Romney is selling is the same old crap that put us in this fucking mess.

In a pluralistic society, that values diversity, all of us have to pay taxes to maintain that society, including sometimes paying for things we personally may not like.

 

I agree 100% which is why I am not going to cast my vote for Romney. Our country is deep in debt and has trillions of unfunded promises that we have to find a way to meet. Neither party has addressed the issue in any serious way, and national bankruptcy would be very bad for all of us. Anyone who votes for any candidate in the two major parties is a complete dipshit. Both parties have demonstrated they care far more about short term power than making wise long term decisions for our country.

If you care at all about the future of the country, vote third party. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
You should be far more concerned with how the government is spending

Yea, you mean like two wars that took a surplus and bankrupt us? You mean like the henhouse being garded by big money that turned the housing, car and banking industry into a casino? Been there, done that.

Get over your fucking stupid "spending money" CRAP. If both you and I want more efficient government, I am sorry, but what Romney is selling is the same old crap that put us in this fucking mess.

In a pluralistic society, that values diversity, all of us have to pay taxes to maintain that society, including sometimes paying for things we personally may not like.

 

I agree 100% which is why I am not going to cast my vote for Romney. Our country is deep in debt and has trillions of unfunded promises that we have to find a way to meet. Neither party has addressed the issue in any serious way, and national bankruptcy would be very bad for all of us. Anyone who votes for any candidate in the two major parties is a complete dipshit. Both parties have demonstrated they care far more about short term power than making wise long term decisions for our country.

If you care at all about the future of the country, vote third party. 

 

Bullshit, you have defended Romney, even if it is a "pinch your nose" defense.

But no, I will not vote for anarchy. Right now, until another party demonstrates they give one fuck about the middle class and working poor, the only party I see giving any consideration to me are democrats.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Bullshit, you

Brian37 wrote:

Bullshit, you have defended Romney, even if it is a "pinch your nose" defense.

But no, I will not vote for anarchy. Right now, until another party demonstrates they give one fuck about the middle class and working poor, the only party I see giving any consideration to me are democrats.

And I have defended Obama at times and that REALLY involved pinching my nose. For example, when he made the infamous statement "The police acted stupidly", unfortunately the wimp backed down but I supported him completely on that particular issue. I haven't defended Romney so much as the businesses that are being attacked because of their association with Romney. Romney himself is a fucking big government politician and if elected will surely continue our country on its current path, maybe just a little slower. There is zero chance government will get smaller under a Romney presidency. I have defended, and will continue to defend, the important role that private equity investment and vulture capitalists play in our economy. Since that is going to be a common campaign theme, I imagine I will be talking about it a lot.

I remember not terribly long ago I defended Hillary over something right on this site. 

Vote communist if you desire. The democrats haven't done shit for you, sure they might say the pretty words, but what have they actually done that has improved your life? They don't give a shit about you other than your vote and you are naive if you think they do. If a significant portion of the population voted for third party candidates of any flavor it would make a significant difference. If everyone keeps pushing "D" and "R" and we simply switch back and fourth every few years nothing will change.  

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Quote:Obviously if you die

Quote:
Obviously if you die you are dead and owning a business is irrelevant.

BINGO!

So please tell me why you think you are more important than me if we are subject to the same finite life?I am a college educated DISHWASHER. But you focus on my title and think somehow because you ended up with a business I did something wrong.

Please tell me how an honest job is wrong and how any person's lot in life is bad because they don't share the same politics or economics you do? Please give me a month's example of where you did not have to shit or pee, and then I will admit that I am a loser.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
Obviously if you die you are dead and owning a business is irrelevant.

BINGO!

So please tell me why you think you are more important than me if we are subject to the same finite life?

Again, where have I ever said I was more important?

 

Brian37 wrote:

I am a college educated DISHWASHER. But you focus on my title and think somehow because you ended up with a business I did something wrong.

Your title does nothing but inform me of what you do to make money. You didn't do anything wrong unless you desire to do something else.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Please tell me how an honest job is wrong and how any person's lot in life is bad because they don't share the same politics or economics you do? Please give me a month's example of where you did not have to shit or pee, and then I will admit that I am a loser.

Did I ever say you were a loser? It makes no difference to me what you decide to do, even if you decided to become a crack head selling meth for money, I'm not going to judge you for it. Now if you think that your current job is not paying you enough money I would recommend you consider a different job. Some jobs are in higher demand than others and the amount you make is directly related to what you produce and how much the market values it. If you choose to remain at a job that doesn't pay well you can't be surprised when you don't have a lot of money.

Unlike many people I do not believe you have any obligation to society to produce or to give back to it. Your obligation is solely to yourself. Even if you are capable of becoming the greatest research scientist and curing cancer, or if you have the business smarts to create a great company that hires hundreds of thousands of people, I do not believe you have any moral obligation to do so.   

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Quote:Vote communist if you

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Vote communist if you desire. The democrats haven't done shit for you

 

What is it exactly that you want for me? You want me to live in a mansion? I don't need or want a mansion. I love my job as a dishwasher, but certainly don't do it for the money. I think democrats are far more in tune with diversity both politically and economically than the likes of Neil Bortz or Fucked Limpdick.

 

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Brian37 wrote:Quote:Vote

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
Vote communist if you desire. The democrats haven't done shit for you

 

What is it exactly that you want for me? You want me to live in a mansion? I don't need or want a mansion. I love my job as a dishwasher, but certainly don't do it for the money. I think democrats are far more in tune with diversity both politically and economically that the likes of Neil Bortz or Fucked Limpdick.

 

All I want is for you to not use government as a tool to take from me for your personal gain or to prevent me from doing the harmless activities I want. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Quote:It makes no difference

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It makes no difference to me what you decide to do, even if you decided to become a crack head selling meth for money,

Bullshit, there is no way you would hire an addict knowing they were, I am dirt poor, do you think I would? YOU simply think that poverty should be treated like a crime, like a drug dealer. Dont pretend in the least you are not being judgmental. That is utter bullshit.

If you think smoking crack is moral then do it yourself.

 

 

 

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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
Vote communist if you desire. The democrats haven't done shit for you

 

What is it exactly that you want for me? You want me to live in a mansion? I don't need or want a mansion. I love my job as a dishwasher, but certainly don't do it for the money. I think democrats are far more in tune with diversity both politically and economically that the likes of Neil Bortz or Fucked Limpdick.

 

 

All I want is for you to not use government as a tool to take from me for your personal gain or to prevent me from doing the harmless activities I want. 

Oh you mean like when the banks and car companies gained personally off of government protectionism and tax cuts at my expense doing the "harmless" damage to all of us?

What you really mean is that government works only when it sides with you and what you want.

 

Sorry but like I said, you can vote yourself, but you are NOT the only one with the right to vote. I think you don't want that to be the case, but fortunately for me I can and I will. Get your corporate goon buddies to stop wrecking the car then maybe I will listen.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Quote:It makes

Brian37 wrote:

Quote:
It makes no difference to me what you decide to do, even if you decided to become a crack head selling meth for money,

Bullshit, there is no way you would hire an addict knowing they were, I am dirt poor, do you think I would?

Whether or not I would hire one is irrelevant. I hire people for one reason, and one reason only, I believe they will do the job I am hiring them to do better or at a better price than anyone else I could hire. I don't hire people because I like them or because I think they are good people. I don't drug test my employees, as long as whatever drug use they participate in does not have a detrimental role on their performance I don't care.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

YOU simply think that poverty should be treated like a crime, like a drug dealer.

? I am the one who has argued quite often for the legalization of all drugs, so yeah kind of, I don't think dealing drugs should be a crime and I don't think poverty should be treated like a crime and I don't think wealth should be treated like a crime. Where have I ever suggested someone should be jailed for poverty? I simply don't care if you are in poverty, that is your problem not mine.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

Dont pretend in the least you are not being judgmental. That is utter bullshit.

If you think smoking crack is moral then do it yourself.

I don't care to do it myself, smoking crack does very nasty things to your body. Lots of things I consider to be moral that I don't do. I don't eat cabbage, there certainly is nothing morally wrong about eating it. Drugs are bad for you and using them is a very bad idea, but I'm not going to judge people who become addicts. I have had very close friends in my life who have been addicts, helping them deal with their addiction is far more useful than simply calling them immoral losers and if someone doesn't want to quit their addiction, that is fine with me too. Your body, you can fuck it up however you want or take care of it however you want. 

Although, I have considered that if I live to be really old I might start experimenting with some of the really hard drugs. When you are 90 years old and you are going to die soon, what do you have to lose from shooting some heroine or using whatever designer drugs exist at that time? Seems far more logical to me than to use the shit when you're a teenager and possibly have to live with permanent physical damage or die young as a result. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Quote:Unlike many people I

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Unlike many people I do not believe you have any obligation to society to produce or to give back to it. Your obligation is solely to yourself

I am glad evolution doesn't work like that, otherwise no life would ever take place, especially in mammals who are social animals.

Thank you Ayn Rand, but you fail to consider that your attitude is nothing but a ploy to gain a monopoly. The theocrats of Iran do not care about dissent. The Communists of China do not care about dissent. And if it is all about self, then those should be just as good explanations of selfishness as what you propose here.

If my only obligation was to myself, then I could steal the tips of the tables of the waitresses I work with. If my obligation was to myself, then I could tell my mother "fuck you" if she asks for a ride to the hospital.

Unlike you, I do feel an obligation to you, not to one on one pay your bills, but as a tax payer, if you got hit beyond your control, am willing to pay more so you stay in business. How does it feel to have a dishwasher say that he is willing to help a business owner to stay in business, but fuck the dishwasher, right, because who the fuck needs clean dishes.

 

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Brian37 wrote:Oh you mean

Brian37 wrote:

Oh you mean like when the banks and car companies gained personally off of government protectionism and tax cuts at my expense doing the "harmless" damage to all of us?

I am against our current tax code for precisely that reason. I am against corporate welfare perhaps even more vehemently than I am against personal welfare. Most of the government spending I bitch about is the stimulus, the auto bailouts, the bank bailouts, solyndra, government regulations etc. I am one of the very few people in the country who said there is no such thing as "too big to fail" and to let the fucking banks go under and let GM go through normal bankruptcy proceedings. You are the one who voted for people that have imposed corporate welfare, not I. 

I support either a national consumption tax where everyone pays based on how much they consume or a national flat tax where everyone pays the exact same percentage with absolutely no exceptions, no tax credits, period.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

What you really mean is that government works only when it sides with you and what you want.

 

Please pull out one quote where I have supported using government in such a manner or ever claimed that government works. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:If my only

Brian37 wrote:

If my only obligation was to myself, then I could steal the tips of the tables of the waitresses I work with.

Hence the proper use of government power- when one citizen uses physical force to harm another, government has a role to use police power. I have never said any differently. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

If my obligation was to myself, then I could tell my mother "fuck you" if she asks for a ride to the hospital.

You certainly could. Unwise if you value your relationship with your mother, but I would be against a law forcing you to give your mother a ride. You can be as nice or as mean to your mother as you choose and you will live with the consequences or benefits of how you treat her. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Unlike you, I do feel an obligation to you, not to one on one pay your bills, but as a tax payer, if you got hit beyond your control, am willing to pay more so you stay in business. How does it feel to have a dishwasher say that he is willing to help a business owner to stay in business, but fuck the dishwasher, right, because who the fuck needs clean dishes. 

I would never accept your money to stay in business. If any business I am involved in is not turning a profit I would modify it or shut it down because obviously it is not needed and resources are being wasted. When I am making large profits the market is telling me that I am running my business well and the product is in demand, when profits slow it is telling me that something is wrong or that the product is not in demand. If I come across a situation where I am personally short on cash but the business has a promising chance at making a profit in the near future I will seek investment from other people and sell a portion of the company to them- perhaps to a private equity fund like Bain Capital, I would exchange a portion of my ownership of the company for their money. 

If I am not willing to put more of my personal money into a failing business and I cannot convince other business people to invest their money, why would you be willing to use the taxpayers money to do so? That is a recipe for throwing good money after bad. 

When I need someone to clean dishes I will pay someone to do so. Why would I pay you to clean dishes if I have no dishes to clean? And why does the government have to be involved in the transaction? 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian, you are RIGHT ON

Brian, you are RIGHT ON buddy! I love how you get fired up because you get me FIRED UP!

Romney is a LIAR and a HYPOCRITE! On MSNBC they played a clip of Romney at the 2002 Olympics telling the athletes "you didn't make it on your own, you had help along the way!!".

Yet now the damn liar says just the opposite! Same way he flip flopped on abortion! He said back in the 90s he will ALWAYS support abortion rights since he had a "close relative" who almost died from an illegal abortion!  Yet now??

Obama may not be perfect but I wish we could vote a 1000 times each just to keep that asshole MORON Romney out of office!

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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Brian, you are RIGHT ON buddy! I love how you get fired up because you get me FIRED UP!

Romney is a LIAR and a HYPOCRITE! On MSNBC they played a clip of Romney at the 2002 Olympics telling the athletes "you didn't make it on your own, you had help along the way!!".

Yet now the damn liar says just the opposite! Same way he flip flopped on abortion! He said back in the 90s he will ALWAYS support abortion rights since he had a "close relative" who almost died from an illegal abortion!  Yet now??

Obama may not be perfect but I wish we could vote a 1000 times each just to keep that asshole MORON Romney out of office!

Hey do you want to see Beyond jump through flamed hoops in circles like a Barnum and Baily animal, remind him that Obama Care was modeled after Romney Care.

Beyond's economic arguments are like the excuse god believers give when bad shit happens, it is our fault or a test or both, but never the fault of the "job creators". We all know he is more important than us.

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Brian37 wrote:Hey do you

Brian37 wrote:

Hey do you want to see Beyond jump through flamed hoops in circles like a Barnum and Baily animal, remind him that Obama Care was modeled after Romney Care.

Beyond's economic arguments are like the excuse god believers give when bad shit happens, it is our fault or a test or both, but never the fault of the "job creators". We all know he is more important than us.

I know it is, which is another reason why I am not a Romney supporter. I don't know why you keep insisting that I support republicans, I do not. I am libertarian and will be voting a straight libertarian ticket, will be donating money to libertarian candidates and in the unlikely event I decide to actually get involved in a campaign it will be for a libertarian candidate. I have abandoned the republican party and have not voted republican for over a decade.

Your last sentence is funny... if it is somehow my fault that people are without work, then doesn't that mean I am more important? You are suggesting that I have a power they (the workers) themselves do not. I am suggesting the opposite. You have just as much power to be a job creator as I do, so if you don't, who are you to blame me when there are no jobs? You can't have it both ways, either we are both capable of being job creators or I am in fact more important than you at least insofar as the economy is concerned. Every argument you have puts a great deal of importance on employers, I am the one arguing they are unimportant. 

So which is it? Am I more important than you, or am I right?

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Beyond Saving wrote:I know

Beyond Saving wrote:

I know it is, which is another reason why I am not a Romney supporter. I don't know why you keep insisting that I support republicans, I do not. I am libertarian and will be voting a straight libertarian ticket, will be donating money to libertarian candidates and in the unlikely event I decide to actually get involved in a campaign it will be for a libertarian candidate. I have abandoned the republican party and have not voted republican for over a decade.

BTW Beyond. None of my business, but there has been a lot of argument on a libertarian board that I play around on over voting for Gary Johnson vs. Ron Paul. I have actually started to disagree with Ron Paul on a lot of things and really do not support some of his views.

But, whist I know that a vote for Gary Johnson may be a vote thrown away, that is who I am considering. Who are you favoring ?

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster wrote:Beyond

harleysportster wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

I know it is, which is another reason why I am not a Romney supporter. I don't know why you keep insisting that I support republicans, I do not. I am libertarian and will be voting a straight libertarian ticket, will be donating money to libertarian candidates and in the unlikely event I decide to actually get involved in a campaign it will be for a libertarian candidate. I have abandoned the republican party and have not voted republican for over a decade.

BTW Beyond. None of my business, but there has been a lot of argument on a libertarian board that I play around on over voting for Gary Johnson vs. Ron Paul. I have actually started to disagree with Ron Paul on a lot of things and really do not support some of his views.

But, whist I know that a vote for Gary Johnson may be a vote thrown away, that is who I am considering. Who are you favoring ?

 

Ron Paul has some serious questions of racism in his past.

Brian, there is a video out there of Romney in 2006 saying how HIS healthcare plan will bring down costs for EVERYONE because you have more people in the pool contributing to the system!  So Romney is on video supporting the very system Obamacare is based on because it's ROMNEY'S idea to begin with! LMAO!

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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Brian, you are RIGHT ON buddy! I love how you get fired up because you get me FIRED UP!

Romney is a LIAR and a HYPOCRITE! On MSNBC they played a clip of Romney at the 2002 Olympics telling the athletes "you didn't make it on your own, you had help along the way!!".

Yet now the damn liar says just the opposite! Same way he flip flopped on abortion! He said back in the 90s he will ALWAYS support abortion rights since he had a "close relative" who almost died from an illegal abortion!  Yet now??

Obama may not be perfect but I wish we could vote a 1000 times each just to keep that asshole MORON Romney out of office!

Hey do you want to see Beyond jump through flamed hoops in circles like a Barnum and Baily animal, remind him that Obama Care was modeled after Romney Care.

Beyond's economic arguments are like the excuse god believers give when bad shit happens, it is our fault or a test or both, but never the fault of the "job creators". We all know he is more important than us.

The repeated use of the word ObamaCare by those against the Affordable Heath Care Act have no idea how this will work against them.

ObamaCare is easily morphed into Obama Cares. All it needs is the s.

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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pauljohntheskeptic wrote:The

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

The repeated use of the word ObamaCare by those against the Affordable Heath Care Act have no idea how this will work against them.

ObamaCare is easily morphed into Obama Cares. All it needs is the s.

 

This video does not take either side of the political spectrum, but it does break down Obamacare/ Affordable Healthcare Act quite well.

They leave it up to the viewer to decide. For those that are interested :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nW9L7cSop4&feature=plcp

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster wrote:Beyond

harleysportster wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

I know it is, which is another reason why I am not a Romney supporter. I don't know why you keep insisting that I support republicans, I do not. I am libertarian and will be voting a straight libertarian ticket, will be donating money to libertarian candidates and in the unlikely event I decide to actually get involved in a campaign it will be for a libertarian candidate. I have abandoned the republican party and have not voted republican for over a decade.

BTW Beyond. None of my business, but there has been a lot of argument on a libertarian board that I play around on over voting for Gary Johnson vs. Ron Paul. I have actually started to disagree with Ron Paul on a lot of things and really do not support some of his views.

But, whist I know that a vote for Gary Johnson may be a vote thrown away, that is who I am considering. Who are you favoring ?

 

I am voting Gary Johnson. While Ron Paul would be significantly better than either Obama or Romney he isn't all there and I am not convinced he would be an effective President. And some of his views I consider downright dangerous, such as going back to the gold standard. I think Ron Paul is best right where he is at hammering at the federal reserve to find out where the hell all of our money is going. 

I could become enthusiastic about Johnson if he demonstrated that he is in the race to seriously win. I think he would be great as President, his record as governor is certainly commendable. Unfortunately, I believe he is passing up on a golden opportunity. With the new campaign laws, he could be going around courting super pacs to get serious money supporting his campaign. He needs to be aggressively pursuing libertarian leaning billionaires like the Koch brothers or Peter Thiel and convincing them to endorse his campaign. He needs people like that to spend a couple hundred million on super pacs for him to have a chance. He either hasn't done so, or has failed to persuade them and the bottom line is that without that kind of significant money a third party candidate doesn't stand much of a chance. But I would rather cast a protest vote than vote for evil again. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Brian, there is a video out there of Romney in 2006 saying how HIS healthcare plan will bring down costs for EVERYONE because you have more people in the pool contributing to the system!  So Romney is on video supporting the very system Obamacare is based on because it's ROMNEY'S idea to begin with! LMAO!

A statement he made which is absolutely wrong as health insurance in Massachusetts has the most expensive health insurance in the nation. http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/columns/2010/july/072210turner.aspx and the state legislature is currently working on a law to pass price controls to limit government exposure because the law is costing the government far more than predicted (a result predicted by people like me). http://www.malegislature.gov/Bills/187/House/H04070

The same thing is now going to happen at the national level- health care and insurance costs are going to skyrocket faster and the government is going to create a new bureaucracy that will attempt to limit what they can charge- this will lead to companies losing money which means they will either shut down or find creative ways around the laws.  

But you are right, the biggest problem with Romney is he agrees with Obama, again, probably not a winning campaign commercial. "Don't vote for him, he agrees with me!" lol 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

harleysportster wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

I know it is, which is another reason why I am not a Romney supporter. I don't know why you keep insisting that I support republicans, I do not. I am libertarian and will be voting a straight libertarian ticket, will be donating money to libertarian candidates and in the unlikely event I decide to actually get involved in a campaign it will be for a libertarian candidate. I have abandoned the republican party and have not voted republican for over a decade.

BTW Beyond. None of my business, but there has been a lot of argument on a libertarian board that I play around on over voting for Gary Johnson vs. Ron Paul. I have actually started to disagree with Ron Paul on a lot of things and really do not support some of his views.

But, whist I know that a vote for Gary Johnson may be a vote thrown away, that is who I am considering. Who are you favoring ?

 

Ron Paul has some serious questions of racism in his past.

Brian, there is a video out there of Romney in 2006 saying how HIS healthcare plan will bring down costs for EVERYONE because you have more people in the pool contributing to the system!  So Romney is on video supporting the very system Obamacare is based on because it's ROMNEY'S idea to begin with! LMAO!

Right. Love it, and also exposes the right for the bullshit artists they are. The right wing was not always like this. There was a point when they were mostly McCain types that would disagree but if you got it right would be like Reagan or Clinton.

If the right wing doesn't nuke what both Romney and Obama agree on, this will end up in history with the same slander social security and the GI bill got but once everyone got a wif of the benefits, the republicans will have no fucking case.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37