Atheism as a religion

snarky
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Atheism as a religion

I have heard it seems all my life this moronic, twisted statement from theists: atheism is a religion.  Atheists believe there is no god and that is a belief system.  A belief system is a religion. 

So I call myself a non-believer.  Then of course I get "oh, you're an atheist blah blah blah".

You guys must have heard this claptrap as well.

Does anyone have a really good answer to this nonsense aside from fainting or running screaming into the night?

 


harleysportster
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snarky wrote:I have heard it

snarky wrote:

I have heard it seems all my life this moronic, twisted statement from theists: atheism is a religion.  Atheists believe there is no god and that is a belief system.  A belief system is a religion. 

So I call myself a non-believer.  Then of course I get "oh, you're an atheist blah blah blah".

You guys must have heard this claptrap as well.

Does anyone have a really good answer to this nonsense aside from fainting or running screaming into the night?

 

 

Well, the comic ones are : 

Is not watching tv a hobby ? 

Is not exercising a workout ? 

Is not believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy faith ? 

Here is one of my favorite things to ask them : 

Me : Do you agree with this quote : Even today, I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by my stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked god from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being able to live at this time ? 

Theist : Of course I agree with that statement.

Me : Do you know who said that ? 

Theist : Who ? 

Me : Adolf Hitler said that in Chapter 5 of Mein Kampf. 

I always ask them, "What is the Atheist creed ?," "Where is the nearest Atheist church ?,". "Who is the Atheist leader ?," "What is the Atheist Manifesto ?" "Can you recite the Atheist Prayer ?" 

They usually stammer and stutter at those questions. 

I think the thing that irks me the most, are the people that want to say "Atheists are just bitter people that hate god,"

Hmm, hard to hate something that I don't believe in. Easy to strongly dislike the fanatical spokespeople that tell me what I HAVE to believe. 

Here is one that really messes with them : Who created God ? They all say : No one did. So I have to answer them with, that must mean that god is an atheist. 

 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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A matter of definition

snarky wrote:

I have heard it seems all my life this moronic, twisted statement from theists: atheism is a religion.  Atheists believe there is no god and that is a belief system.  A belief system is a religion. 

Not all belief systems are religions.

The exact definition of what a religion is, is hard to pin down, but this is a start:

http://atheism.about.com/od/religiondefinition/a/definition.htm

extract:

Some have argued that religion isn’t hard to define and the plethora of conflicting definitions is evidence of how easy it really is. The problem lies in finding a definition that is empirically useful and empirically testable.

So far, the best definition of religion I have seen is in The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It lists traits of religions rather than declaring religion to be one thing or another, arguing that the more markers present in a belief system, the more”religious like” it is:

  • Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
  • A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
  • Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
  • A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
  • Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
  • Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
  • A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
  • A more or less total organization of one’s life based on the world view.
  • A social group bound together by the above.

This definition captures much of what religion is across diverse cultures. It includes sociological, psychological, and historical factors and allows for broader gray areas in the concept of religion. It’s not without flaws, though. The first marker, for example, is about “supernatural beings” and gives “gods” as an example, but thereafter only gods are mentioned. Even the concept of “supernatural beings” is a bit too specific; Mircea Eliade defined religion in reference to a focus on “the sacred” and that is a good replacement for “supernatural beings” because not every religion revolves around the supernatural.

 

A better definition is:

  • Belief in something sacred (for example, gods or other supernatural beings).
  • A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
  • Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
  • A moral code believed to have a sacred or supernatural basis.
  • Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual.
  • Prayer and other forms of communication with the supernatural.
  • A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
  • A more or less total organization of one’s life based on the world view.
  • A social group bound together by the above.'

 


A_Nony_Mouse
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harleysportster wrote:

Well, the comic ones are : 

Is not watching tv a hobby ? 

Is not exercising a workout ? 

Is not believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy faith ? 

Here is one of my favorite things to ask them : 

Me : Do you agree with this quote : Even today, I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by my stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked god from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being able to live at this time ? 

Theist : Of course I agree with that statement.

Me : Do you know who said that ? 

Theist : Who ? 

Me : Adolf Hitler said that in Chapter 5 of Mein Kampf. 

I always ask them, "What is the Atheist creed ?," "Where is the nearest Atheist church ?,". "Who is the Atheist leader ?," "What is the Atheist Manifesto ?" "Can you recite the Atheist Prayer ?" 

They usually stammer and stutter at those questions. 

I think the thing that irks me the most, are the people that want to say "Atheists are just bitter people that hate god,"

Hmm, hard to hate something that I don't believe in. Easy to strongly dislike the fanatical spokespeople that tell me what I HAVE to believe. 

Here is one that really messes with them : Who created God ? They all say : No one did. So I have to answer them with, that must mean that god is an atheist. 

Thanking god for what? If his objective was to be remembered after his death, his jewish publicists will assure he is remembered long after Europe is forgotten.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


A_Nony_Mouse
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x wrote:
...

So far, the best definition of religion I have seen is in The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It lists traits of religions rather than declaring religion to be one thing or another, arguing that the more markers present in a belief system, the more”religious like” it is:

  • Belief in supernatural beings (gods)....

Or a pragmatic view of everything in both lists and priests taking vigorish off the top. No matter how any religion is promoted, no matter how defined, the one constant is the priests taking their cut off the top.

The religion of the people is not the religion of the priests. Priests promote forms of religion which puts them in a position to skim off the top. That is ALWAYS the nature of organized religion as organizations costs money and makes work.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


snarky
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Thanks Harleysportster

for all the good quotable suggestions!  I will have them in mind.  The next time people start talking about religion and get in my face I will have a good retort.  If they don't listen to me I will have the quotes carved into stone tablets to use for head-bashing!

Someone once emailed me from another board that I have a "hole in my soul". and told me how unhappy I must be.  I emailed him back that I don't have a soul to have a hole in.  Never heard back from him which made me much happier!

Much thanks as well to everyone that gave me ammunition!

 


harleysportster
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snarky wrote:for all the

snarky wrote:

for all the good quotable suggestions!  I will have them in mind.  The next time people start talking about religion and get in my face I will have a good retort.  If they don't listen to me I will have the quotes carved into stone tablets to use for head-bashing!

Someone once emailed me from another board that I have a "hole in my soul". and told me how unhappy I must be.  I emailed him back that I don't have a soul to have a hole in.  Never heard back from him which made me much happier!

Much thanks as well to everyone that gave me ammunition!

 

A couple of other comic ones :

When they say " If people came from monkeys, why are there still monkeys ?,"

Like Jeffrick's signature says : If man were made from dirt why is there still dirt ? 

If the original settlers who came to this country came from England. Why are there still English people ? 

I like to ask them : "What do you think of the god Zeus ?," When they answer that Zeus is false, I tell them "Well, that is what I think about your god,". 

See everyone is an atheist to some degree. Christians and muslims do not believe in Sumerian gods, Phoenician gods, Mesopotamian gods, Stone Age gods, Hellenistic gods, or Incan , Mayan and Aztec gods, the only difference is, we take it one god further. Everyone is partially atheist to some degree. 

They usually look confused when you tell them that. 

These are of course, simple one liner comebacks. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


danatemporary
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From another part of the Forum . .

Re : From another part of the Forum :

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

danatemporary wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

What is truth asked the doubting Peter and turned before he could receive an answer.

 Smiling As you say, "Going off in a huff is a common bluff."

I find these non-scientists, these unnatural philsophers, quite well qualified to sell life insurance. They have this amusing tendency to talk about abstract nouns as though they were concrete nouns at least as undergrads. The PhDs learn to hide it better.

 

 

    To A-Nony_Mouse:

 Quote from Bob Spence I think you'd appreciate

 

Boss  Bob Spence wrote:
  The problem with Philosophy for me is that it is so open-ended; it depends so much on the intelligence and focus of the individual philosopher for useful and interesting discussion. It is far too easy for totally nonsensical ideas/systems to get traction among philosophers.  many fields, coming from Science, with the mostly vacuous philosophical discussions, still mired in many medieval concepts, became distressingly obvious to me. The rarity of a genuinely interesting discussion/article from a Philosophical perspective lead to me pretty much giving up on programs/podcasts on Philosophy.

 Truth .. We have no way to distinguish when we are actually having the ultimate truth 'revealed' to us, even if that really happened, or just imagine we are. That in itself would require us to already be capable of 'absolute' and 'perfect' apprehension, which we could not 'know' we had, if we did. The whole idea of absolutes and perfection is part of the deeply deluded philosophy of Platonic Idealism..


danatemporary
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Myths . . .

harleysportster wrote:

 Harleysportster said, 'Christians and muslims do not believe in Sumerian gods, Phoenician gods, Mesopotamian gods, Stone Age gods, Hellenistic gods, or Incan , Mayan and Aztec gods, the only difference is, we take it one god further. Everyone is partially atheist to some degree. 

They usually look confused when you tell them that. 

These are of course, simple one liner comebacks"

 

  Brian37 made a comment I think you'd appreciate . . .

Brian37 wrote:
For someone who claims to teach critical thought they totally missed the intent of the Blasphemy Challenge... I am sure this "teacher" has no problem questioning the myths of others. We merely reject one more myth than you do. Try understanding why you reject all other myths besides the one you hold and then you will understand why we do the "Blasphemy Challenge". It is basically telling people to stare at the shadows that frighten them until they realize they are just shadows. Myths are just myths and nothing to be frightened of.

 


A_Nony_Mouse
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danatemporary wrote:

Re : From another part of the Forum :

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

danatemporary wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

What is truth asked the doubting Peter and turned before he could receive an answer.

 Smiling As you say, "Going off in a huff is a common bluff."

I find these non-scientists, these unnatural philsophers, quite well qualified to sell life insurance. They have this amusing tendency to talk about abstract nouns as though they were concrete nouns at least as undergrads. The PhDs learn to hide it better.

 

 

    To A-Nony_Mouse:

 Quote from Bob Spence I think you'd appreciate

 

Boss  Bob Spence wrote:
  The problem with Philosophy for me is that it is so open-ended; it depends so much on the intelligence and focus of the individual philosopher for useful and interesting discussion. It is far too easy for totally nonsensical ideas/systems to get traction among philosophers.  many fields, coming from Science, with the mostly vacuous philosophical discussions, still mired in many medieval concepts, became distressingly obvious to me. The rarity of a genuinely interesting discussion/article from a Philosophical perspective lead to me pretty much giving up on programs/podcasts on Philosophy.

 Truth .. We have no way to distinguish when we are actually having the ultimate truth 'revealed' to us, even if that really happened, or just imagine we are. That in itself would require us to already be capable of 'absolute' and 'perfect' apprehension, which we could not 'know' we had, if we did. The whole idea of absolutes and perfection is part of the deeply deluded philosophy of Platonic Idealism..

There is the key again. There may be a true thing as in 2+2=4 but no truth of the ultimate kind as truth has no idependent existence. A beautiful woman, a beautiful sunset but not independent thing called beauty independent of an object. No matter how common it is to talk about truth as an independent thing it does not exist. Simply playing with the language means nothing. How about the ultimate untruth being revealed? The ultimate untrue what?

Absent the common usage it is natural to ask 'untrue what'. The common usage does not lead to asking 'true what'.

This actually goes back to Greek theism where their ultimate god was unknowable. Sound familiar? But the eminations of this god such was truth and wisdom were knowable. This gave abstract qualities a perceptable reality. All these attempts to deal with imagined things as real lead to the same kind of nonsense.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml