The Soviet War in Afghanistan

Zeeboe
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The Soviet War in Afghanistan

I'm a little upset folks, but instead of crying like a baby, I decided to find the root of the problem, and rage against that. Who knows. It's a long shot, but perhaps it will make a difference if the right person reads this one day.

In the past, I have studied The Soviet War in Afghanistan, and I recently took an interest in it again, and I am thinking, if the Russians won their war, 9/11 and the wars that the U.S. were apart of that followed would have never happened if the Russians were left alone to do the job the U.S. had to do years later.

I understand why the U.S. helped the Afghans - They were looking for payback because the Soviet Union helped the Viet Cong during the Vietnam War. I get that, and I understand that, but that right there is why pride can be deadly because I have no doubt the Russians could have won their war against the Afghans if the U.S. didn't give weapons, (among other things) to the Afghans and we ended up shooting ourselves in the foot for it later. Now today, we suffer.

 

The Soviet Union, along with the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan were trying to make a better world for the Afghans by changing with the times, making things equal for everyone, bringing education to all of the people who desired it, and were looking stopping poverty. But the Muslim fanatics were against that because all of those ideas were against their religion. They felt Allah has decided how everything is suppose to be, and to change things was a sin against him. So instead of just living their way, and letting others live their way, those Muslim fanatics ended up terrorizing people who were looking for a change in their lives, and Bin Laden ended up getting all his training from the U.S.A. and he used those skills to kill people on 9/11, which caused my country, the United States of America, to go to war with him, and not only him, but Iraq as well, which cost us lots of money. Well, people like me, not the rich people who started the wars.

 

Just another example of a stupid religion messing up the world. It's amazing the power that a fairy tale can have. No one has ever seen or heard God, yet they will gladly kill & do other messed up stuff over a being they can't prove exists. I'm an American, but my country shouldn't haved help those terrorist rebels in the 1980's because we ended up paying for it on 9/11, and paid for a lot more.

I truly believe my life, and everyone else's lives would be ten times better if the Russians won. I also don't think communism is nearly as bad as what the American media has made it out to be. I'd like to live an Atheist country. Maybe there'd be less violence. I'd also like free health care. Most of the hate or misunderstanding, of communism and socialism, stems from the era of the Cold War when Americans for decades were brainwashed against these ideas in all forms of media. Movies, books, newspapers, the radio, songs, television shows, (including children's shows) and even a record that was voiced by then actor Ronald Regan containing anti communist/socialist ideas were all forced onto Americans.

It's all about power and control though. Our leaders know they can use the God angle to keep people in line, and at the end of the day, they don't give a crap about you. We're just slaves. Granted, things could be a lot worst, but they could be a heck of a lot better too.


Gorbachev begged the U.S.A. not to arm the mujahideen because they were Islamist fanatics, but the U.S ignored him. Afghanistan might have been under Russian control today if Russia won, but I think it would be a dang better sight than it is now in my view with the way women and children are treated. AND there would have been no 9/11, no money issues going on in the United States of America because of the wars, and all this other nonsense that was later caused because of Bin Laden.

To go back to what I typed earlier about how the U.S.A. trained Bin Laden and Bin Laden ended up using what he was taught to attack the United States of America on 9/11. - Well, today, children in the United States of America are not getting the education they are entitled to get, Americans are losing their jobs left and right, my hours at my job stink, I won't even be working this summer, and that's because of the economy.....well, what economy?..... too many U.S. troops have died....and more is going on in the U.S.A. and it's all because of Bin Laden - A man my own country trained. Our troops going after this man was very pricy. Well, pricy for us, not the rich people who started these conflicts.

Now I totally supported the hunt for Bin Laden for what he did, and I am glad he is dead, but what if 9/11 happened? What if another country was willing to do all the work? Well, the U.S. had that chance in the 1980's, but because of the country's issues with needing to be Superman all the time, they ended up screwing over the rest of us. The truth is, the Russians stopped being our enemies because they are too busy pointing their fingers at us and laughing! The U.S.A. got a giant wad of karma spit right on us for getting in the Russians way. Because of that, that raise you needed won't be happening for a long time, if ever!

If the Russians won - 9/11, the wars that the U.S. were apart of that followed, and all this other nonsense would have never happened if the Russians were left alone to do the job the U.S. took over to do years later. But it's all about power, control, and the all mighty dollar. It was like the U.S. and Russia were feuding over who got to invade the Middle East like how in prison, the Aryan Brotherhood and the Black Guerilla Family feud in the prison yard over who is going to rape the new sissy inmate.

The Russians were all atheists, and they were going to war with a bunch of religious fanatics who desired for the whole world to be like them, and were willing to kill (and did kill, and will kill) plenty of people for it. And the Russians were the first ones (in modern times anyhow) who were willing to get rid of these guys and planned to destory all that Allah garbage!

I read that the Russian troops use to rape and kill the women, and take the babies and throw them into fires because they didn't need to deal with another generation in the future. The Russians also use to poison the wells in Afghanistan, blown up the mosques, and run over Afghan civilians in tanks. Now that is some disturbing stuff, but sometimes, it's needed to win a war, and keep in mind - The Taliban would gladly do the same things to anyone else who is against their views if they were given a chance.

During the U.S.'s war with the Taliban, American troops deliberately avoided any civilian attacks, refused to attack any mosques - even when the Taliban would hide in them - and made it point to drop ethnically correct food supplies to help feed the Afghans who were being hurt by the fighting. No wonder it took the troops so long to find Bin Laden. If you would like to win a war against a bunch of savages, you have to be more cruel then they are, and because we're such a nice little country, it took over ten years, a lot of money, and more importantly - a WHOLE lot of dead American troops to get this job done when it could have been done a lot sooner if the U.S. troops would have went in there and made at least a half-butt effort to make General Sherman proud!


I am a proud American, but the one thing I really dislike about this country is we have a very bad habit of meddling in the affairs of other countries. Will we ever learn our lesson and stop trying to be a "super hero" all the time?

 


Zeeboe
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I see a few grammar errors

I see a few grammar errors here. Smiling I wish I could edit my post. Why am I not ever able to edit my post whenever I make a new thread?


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You really think that if

You really think that if 9/11 had not happened that the global economic recession would not have happened?  I think you give Bin Laden too much credit.

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  Too bad Alexander Lebed

  Too bad Alexander Lebed isn't still around.  He was a dynamic leader and a Soviet Lt. General whose background was with the VDV ( Russian Air Borne ).   He had much experience in dealing with militant Muslims.  He was a bad ass.

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Lebed

  "I spit on popularity ratings.  I live and serve as I see fit."

 

"People aren't given teeth just to chew with.  They need to be shown from time to time.  Strength makes the world go round. "

 

"There are no impossibler tasks, no hopeless situations."

 

    Alexander Lebed.

 

 

 

                                                               

    

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Zeeboe
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A more sober me is back, and

Thank you for that link. I'll check it out. I may have a new person to add to my list of inspirational people on my Facebook profile.

Anyhow, I'm more calm now, and no, I don't think life is that simple. Bin Laden can't be the only reason why things are bad. But fighting wars are not cheap. But that's all I'll type for now in regards of that topic. I think I've typed enough on it. Honestly, it's better not to think too much about the injustices of life. They've always been around, they'll always be around, and there's nothing any of us can do about it. So yeah, being a good lap dog for the powers that be is the way to go because if you fight against them, you're just going to suffer and you're not going to change a thing. That's why I've always felt Occupy Wallstreet was a big waste of time.

 

/thread


ProzacDeathWish
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  Understood.  Sometimes

  Understood.  Sometimes we just need to blow off some steam about a particular issue without really needing to dissect it. 

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EXC
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How was the Soviet version

How was the Soviet version of communism all that different than religion? A dictator treated as an infallable god. A bunch of unproven economic theories treated as gospel truth. Manipulation of the masses using propaganda, brainwashing, social pressure to conform, fear, etc... A prophet making predictions about the future with no evidence. The USSR hardly eliminated poverty in their own country to be going around pushing their system on others. Hardly what you'd call rational atheism.

If the USA had not armed the Mujahideen, the USSR may not have collapsed and we'd still be dealing with a Cold War.  So it's like pick your poison deal with irrational Commies or Islamists. The enemy should be irrationality not one particular religion or political philosophy.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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EXC wrote:A dictator treated

EXC wrote:

A dictator treated as an infallable god.

neither before nor after stalin, and he only in the last decade or so of his life.  unless, of course, you count the tsars, who, unlike stalin, quite literally were worshipped as demi-gods, complete with icons people prayed to.

EXC wrote:

A bunch of unproven economic theories treated as gospel truth.

marxism is a political theory.  the economics side of it is nothing more than the dissection of the existing capitalist system.

EXC wrote:
 

Manipulation of the masses using propaganda, brainwashing, social pressure to conform, fear, etc... A prophet making predictions about the future with no evidence.

politics in general.

EXC wrote:
 

The USSR hardly eliminated poverty in their own country to be going around pushing their system on others.

what is the measure of "eliminating poverty"?  the soviet government turned russia from one of the world's last backwaters of feudalism, illiteracy, and superstition into an industrialized world power with almost total literacy, all within one generation after the revolution. 

EXC wrote:

So it's like pick your poison deal with irrational Commies or Islamists.

well, last i remember, those "irrational commies" in the soviet union didn't crash planes into buildings on american soil, nor did they train suicide bombers.  in fact, during the height of cold war irrationality, it was krushchev who pulled the missiles out of cuba, over the loud protests of che guevara.  i have a suspicion bin ladin would have sooner fried us all.

the communist manifesto, lenin's october theses, stalin's short course, etc., are no more "irrational" than the declaration of independence, which is based on "self-evident truths" that are not self-evident at all.  every political ideology in history has had an element of the quixotic in it, and to implicitly single out marxism or even marxism-leninism as somehow worse in this area than all the others is ignorant.

EXC wrote:

The enemy should be irrationality 

then my advice is to kill all humans.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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Watcher wrote:You really

Watcher wrote:

You really think that if 9/11 had not happened that the global economic recession would not have happened?  I think you give Bin Laden too much credit.

I'd dispute that. I'd say nearly everyone gave him too much credit. How many billions of dollars were spent by the worlds nations on security studies and changes after 911? How many new laws and regulations were implemented, and how much did it cost?

I was working in security when it happened, and the number of changes that occurred after 911 was mind boggling. A test was designed that required passing to receive a licence. Random and non-random drug testing began. Background checks took twice as long. Insurance companies changed the way they looked at security, at what they wanted from security, and wages and job requirements rose.

Now I won't say there wouldn't have been a recession without 911, but I WILL say it wouldn't have been as bad nor hit so fast without 911, and the global over-reaction to it.

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Vastet wrote: I'd dispute

Vastet wrote:
I'd dispute that. I'd say nearly everyone gave him too much credit. How many billions of dollars were spent by the worlds nations on security studies and changes after 911? How many new laws and regulations were implemented, and how much did it cost? I was working in security when it happened, and the number of changes that occurred after 911 was mind boggling. A test was designed that required passing to receive a licence. Random and non-random drug testing began. Background checks took twice as long. Insurance companies changed the way they looked at security, at what they wanted from security, and wages and job requirements rose. Now I won't say there wouldn't have been a recession without 911, but I WILL say it wouldn't have been as bad nor hit so fast without 911, and the global over-reaction to it.

I tried to get a job repairing vending machines, shortly after 9/11. Because allot of these vending machines were located in government buildings, they had to run an FBI background check, a lie detector test, asked me questions about where I liked to hang out, what webpages did I like to visit, what was my then-girlfriends occupation and all sorts of other stuff.

I don't know if the procedure was that tough before 9/11, but I was blown away.

The funniest question on the application was : Do you belong to any subversive organizations ? Hmm, do underground subversive organizations advertise ?

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Lmfao. I'd probably trust

Lmfao. I'd probably trust the guy who said yes to that question more than the guy who answered no without blinking.

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EXC
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iwbiek wrote: neither

iwbiek wrote:
 

neither before nor after stalin, and he only in the last decade or so of his life.  unless, of course, you count the tsars, who, unlike stalin, quite literally were worshipped as demi-gods, complete with icons people prayed to.

True. Stalin and the Tsars did borrow many of their methods for controlling the masses from the Orthodox Church. Lenin's body was like a holy shrine. Lenin and Marx's words treated as the bible, where it's true because they wrote it in their manifestos.

iwbiek wrote:
 

politics in general.

Why I detest both politics and religion.

 

iwbiek wrote:
 

What is the measure of "eliminating poverty"?  the soviet government turned russia from one of the world's last backwaters of feudalism, illiteracy, and superstition into an industrialized world power with almost total literacy, all within one generation after the revolution. 

And capitalists can make similar such claims about economic miracles. The fact is no political system has eliminated poverty, crime, war, etc... Only the application of science and reason, not politics could ever achieve this.

But the fact is they had to fence their people in to keep them from leaving, so I don't see how you could say it was any better.

 

iwbiek wrote:
 

well, last i remember, those "irrational commies" in the soviet union didn't crash planes into buildings on american soil, nor did they train suicide bombers.  in fact, during the height of cold war irrationality, it was krushchev who pulled the missiles out of cuba, over the loud protests of che guevara.  i have a suspicion bin ladin would have sooner fried us all.

No. The just tried to install dictatorships around the world that would take away any one's political choice. Push their values at the point of gun, instead of presenting evidence of improved living conditions and happiness. Just like Islamists are doing today.

iwbiek wrote:
 

the communist manifesto, lenin's october theses, stalin's short course, etc., are no more "irrational" than the declaration of independence, which is based on "self-evident truths" that are not self-evident at all.  every political ideology in history has had an element of the quixotic in it, and to implicitly single out marxism or even marxism-leninism as somehow worse in this area than all the others is ignorant.

True. But the American system at least had the ideal of letting free people judge for themselves what is best. The Soviet communist system was like religion, it assumes itself to be true and the people were not to question any of it. Very cult like.

The American system has ways to correct itself without the whole system crashing down as did the USSR.

iwbiek wrote:
 

then my advice is to kill all humans.

I've thought about that, so did the Soviets, apparently:

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/06/05/bigger-is-better-7-insane-soviet-projects/

"Nikita Khrushchev and company had actually been plotting to build a "doomsday" device. The plan called for a large cargo ship anchored off the Soviet Union’s east coast to be loaded with hundreds of hydrogen bombs. If at any point the radiation detectors aboard the ship measured a certain amount of atmospheric radiation, indicating that the Soviet Union had been attacked, the bombs would detonate. "

 

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


iwbiek
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EXC wrote:No. The just tried

EXC wrote:

No. The just tried to install dictatorships around the world that would take away any one's political choice. Push their values at the point of gun, instead of presenting evidence of improved living conditions and happiness. Just like Islamists are doing today.

sometimes with american help, specifically in the cases of both hussein and the taliban.

pinochet, trujillo, the duvaliers, franco, batista, chiang kai shek--all dictators that have received substantial american, nay, western, backing during their tenures.  many of them--the duvaliers, in particular--had human rights records that would make saddam hussein blush.  let's not forget that the US tried earnestly to do business wirth fidel castro, mao zedong, pol pot, et al., before those leaders decided to throw in their lot with the other camp.

once again, if you're saying the communist governments of the world played a bigger part in setting up horrendous third world dictatorships than any other, you're obviously wrong.

EXC wrote:

The Soviet communist system was like religion, it assumes itself to be true and the people were not to question any of it. Very cult like.

The American system has ways to correct itself without the whole system crashing down as did the USSR.

this only makes the american system more subtle and clever in the "cult-like" department than the soviet union, not more innocent.  a trip to washington, d.c., and a quick glance up at the capitol rotunda, with washington enthroned among the angels, will ensure you of that.

"I asked my father,
I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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EXC wrote:"Nikita Khrushchev

EXC wrote:

"Nikita Khrushchev and company had actually been plotting to build a "doomsday" device. The plan called for a large cargo ship anchored off the Soviet Union’s east coast to be loaded with hundreds of hydrogen bombs. If at any point the radiation detectors aboard the ship measured a certain amount of atmospheric radiation, indicating that the Soviet Union had been attacked, the bombs would detonate. "

 

 

  

   A Soviet Dooms Day device ?  ...of unparalleled mega-tonnage ?  ...to be detonated at  one specific location ?  ...off the coast of the Soviet Union, itself ?  Well no wonder they fucking abandoned that stupid idea.  They would be showered with nuclear fall out for starters, among other counter-productive issues relating to a single, giant detonation.

( I am familiar with Tsar Bomba as an actual event, it is the largest man-made explosion in history. The Soviets were obsessed with setting technical records, which they did many times over. )

 Anyway, the Soviets replaced it with a much more realistic Dooms Day Machine by manufacturing the world's largest nuclear arsenal comprised of ICBM's which are much more destructive than one single massive blast as the individual war heads within each missile target specific targets with just enough destructive force to destroy it.  No wasted nuclear fuel just to make an impressive mush room cloud.

  It's the same approach that the U.S. took as well. 

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.