God and Satan: the origins

Luminon
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God and Satan: the origins

 I'm not sure where to post it. But Tony Jeffers asked and it's such a good resource for everyone. These two videos explain the origins of Yahweh and Satan. Watch them and see how people gradually made up both of them. For good measure I add the previous proverbial incarnations of Jesus Christ. You know, Dionysus, Mithra, Horus, Attis, Krishna and who knows who else. The purpose is to cut the crap, get to the point quickly and bring theists on a whole new level of discussion. 

 

I am still missing one essential video. The theme was Eve in Hell, or why don't atheists fear hell or actually the neurologic basis of pain. A painted Eve was slightly burned on her foot by a flame and the video displayed how the pain travels by nerves into the brain. If the nerve gets severed or rots after death, there is no pain. But if the nerve wouldn't have its proper coating at the brain's end, the signal would leak into surrounding regions in the brain and the sensation would be like whole body burning. The point is, pain is an entirely neurologic phenomenon, an evolutionary invention to warn us and protect us. Threatening people with burning after they're dead and rotten is just ridiculous.

This is what the video was about and I can't find it anywhere on the usual channels or fulltext. It was pretty much in educative slightly animated style of QualiaSoup, TheraminTrees, or Evid3nc3, easy to recognize as I described it.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Hey Lum

If you click at the bottom of part 1 " watch on you tube" then click "like" he will suggest 4 other videos.-"Evolution is not a controversy" ....etc.  or subscribe to his channel. Recommend you follow thru to 3.4.1(1)Atheism:Evidence.

Thanks again Lum. Good shits!

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


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Luminon wrote:  I'm not

Luminon wrote:

 I'm not sure where to post it. But Tony Jeffers asked and it's such a good resource for everyone. These two videos explain the origins of Yahweh and Satan. Watch them and see how people gradually made up both of them. For good measure I add the previous proverbial incarnations of Jesus Christ. You know, Dionysus, Mithra, Horus, Attis, Krishna and who knows who else. The purpose is to cut the crap, get to the point quickly and bring theists on a whole new level of discussion.

I have already made a post in response to your previous effort, and I don't have time right now to respond to the Horus etc. video, but I've walked down that road many times anyway. I have to admit that early in my theistic history I fell for the alleged connection of those mythological characters and my new found belief, and I started to try and convince other Christians on the Internet what I had found, mostly inspired by [I now shudder to think, in complete embarrassment] Achyra S. It didn't take long before I learned that, although preceded much earlier by similar claims, Achyra S. was full of shit.

I should have known it because I knew that according to the Bible chronology and similar dating, Jesus was most likely born in the first week of October. The apostate church, influenced by the pagan celebrations of the winter solstice adopted Christmas. If you actually research real scholars of mythology they will even more thoroughly scoff at the alleged connections.

I guess it shouldn't have amazed me that the atheists who believe that stuff would be any more apt to do that than the Christians would with their pagan influence.

Can anyone here offer me any evidence of those claims. I know you love evidence, facts, data . . . you, uh, seen any?


Luminon
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 The Theist wrote: Can

 

The Theist wrote:
 Can anyone here offer me any evidence of those claims. I know you love evidence, facts, data . . . you, uh, seen any?

Evidence, facts, data, just what do you want to do with them? How about we use semantics and tautology to prove things like you did?

I'm not an expert, but if I remember, St. Augustine or someone other medieval author that was aware of this ancient problem of religious copyright infringement. His lame excuse was, that Satan did it, Satan made other Christs ahead of the time. Which is of course nonsense, the second video shows that Satan is basically a medieval fictional hero. 

Maybe Horus wasn't that much Jesus-like, but I picked the Zeitgeist piece because it contained comparison of multiple divine candidates, all others videos did just one on one comparison. It doesn't change the point anyway. If you want to know more, try some books or Wikipedia on comparative religion. You'd do even better to pick the book on which is the first Yahweh video based.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


Jeffrick
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BUT!!!!!!

 

 

 

                    What the Zeitgeist film says about Horus is , frankly; a load of horses**t!  His mother was Isis and NO virgin, she was a widow.  There is very little about Horus that resembles the Jesus charactor at all, he had no desciples or ministry has in the Jesus sense of those words, he did not die; ergo no crucifiction. His birthday was celebrated in March has was Dionysis' birth.  The one ancient god resembleing Jesus, and likely the main source of the Jesus charactor was Mithras.  Mithras was a popular cult among Roman soldiers, Zeigeist got that one right.  Mithras and Jesus were so similer that when christianity took over Mithras was quickly forgotten about.  The main temple for Mithras was on Vatican hill in Rome which soon became St.Peter's.

 

 

                   Constantine never made christianity the "official" religion of Rome.   He granted them equal status with the other cults of Rome, christianity bullied its' way  to the top through his heirs.

 

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Jeffrick

Jeffrick wrote:

                    What the Zeitgeist film says about Horus is , frankly; a load of horses**t!  His mother was Isis and NO virgin, she was a widow.  There is very little about Horus that resembles the Jesus charactor at all, he had no desciples or ministry has in the Jesus sense of those words, he did not die; ergo no crucifiction. His birthday was celebrated in March has was Dionysis' birth.  The one ancient god resembleing Jesus, and likely the main source of the Jesus charactor was Mithras.  Mithras was a popular cult among Roman soldiers, Zeigeist got that one right.  Mithras and Jesus were so similer that when christianity took over Mithras was quickly forgotten about.  The main temple for Mithras was on Vatican hill in Rome which soon became St.Peter's.

 

 

                   Constantine never made christianity the "official" religion of Rome.   He granted them equal status with the other cults of Rome, christianity bullied its' way  to the top through his heirs.

All right, is there any better resource we can use? And where did the rumors of Horus come from? And was Dionysos really crucified? (I guess so, if that coin of a guy on the cross is legit, or is that cross just an ancient kind of grape vine support? Smiling )

So Mithras is the prime suspect. There's just so much I don't know about beginnings of Christianity. Like, who wrote the gospels, who were Peter and Paul and why exactly they were not the equally named disciples of Jesus. The way Sunday school teachers make it look like is way too simple and doesn't even remotely resemble what scholars say. What a shame, didn't yet took time to sort out this mess.

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It will take you a long time

It will take you a long time to figure it out Luminous.

The Hebrew word satan means adversary. It is fist applied to a righteous angel of god who stood in the path of Balaam. 22:22.

 


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The Theist wrote:It will

The Theist wrote:

It will take you a long time to figure it out Luminous.

The Hebrew word satan means adversary. It is fist applied to a righteous angel of god who stood in the path of Balaam. 22:22.

A righteous angel of god? So it wasn't the rebellious arch-enemy of god, Jesus and mankind? The ultimate deceiver, the Beast of Apocalypse? The disseminator of dinosaur fossils? Good, you see my point!

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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Luminon wrote:The Theist

Luminon wrote:

The Theist wrote:

It will take you a long time to figure it out Luminous.

The Hebrew word satan means adversary. It is fist applied to a righteous angel of god who stood in the path of Balaam. 22:22.

A righteous angel of god? So it wasn't the rebellious arch-enemy of god, Jesus and mankind? The ultimate deceiver, the Beast of Apocalypse? The disseminator of dinosaur fossils? Good, you see my point!

I'm not sure if he is around any more to see your reply.

BTW - I've seen all the videos and I enjoyed them. I think the point of the Horus video is more of a "look at the similarities" but either way those same similarities are used in the birth of the buddha siddhartha who has a myth that his mom was a virgin impregnated by an white elephant, that when he was born he left his mother's womb and walked seven steps north... well you can read it here... it's all bullshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracles_of_Gautama_Buddha

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Paternal Deity vs. angry

Paternal Deity vs. angry Juvenile Deity: a spiritual axiom preached across 7 continents.

 

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“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Luminon wrote:The Theist

Luminon wrote:

The Theist wrote:

It will take you a long time to figure it out Luminous.

The Hebrew word satan means adversary. It is fist applied to a righteous angel of god who stood in the path of Balaam. 22:22.

A righteous angel of god? So it wasn't the rebellious arch-enemy of god, Jesus and mankind? The ultimate deceiver, the Beast of Apocalypse? The disseminator of dinosaur fossils? Good, you see my point!

Someone explained to me an interesting writers perspective on God vs Satan, I don't remember exactly where it comes from, I think it's an Ann Rice book but not sure.  The idea was this God is short tempered, unimaginably self centered and tyranous, and this rightous angel Satan he created with free will didn't like the way he treated other angels and how he toyed with the humans he created by assigning them silly rules and burning/drowning them or horribly painful deaths if they didn't comply.  So he tried to stop him, but God would have none of it and banished him to earth, here he does his very best to to open our eyes and protect us from this gods wrath even though he knows in the end  this God will "poof" him out of existence with his superior power.  Just thought that was a fun perspective.

   The idea of god/satan, good/evil is so primitive first of all, and the concept that this God is all powerful and this Satan is > to him, makes the hole idea of this"batte/struggle" completely upsurd.  Theists try to justify this nonsense "god gave satan freewill to disobey him" or "he is waiting for the right time to defeat him" etc... bla bla bla nonsense.   If this Satan were "evil" and messing around with and harming this gods creation, certainly the more powerful god would no allow him to.  The biblical satan, although portrayed by religitards as complete evil, anti god etc... is no more than a trickster of sorts, a gambling man, and someone who enjoys the simple pleasures of life.  He doesn't do much more than "lure" people to mostly silly things the bible calls "sins", while god burns entire cities, drowns every man woman child and baby on the planet, tears kids to pieces etc... 

I've always found this "god creates satan, god > satan, satan rebels and becomes evil, god struggles with satan" story nothing but fucking nonsense, it just makes no sense at all.  One more strike out for the silly mythological stories of Christianity.  God vs Satan = Fail 


Jean Chauvin
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Hello

Hello,

The many hundreds of witches that i have talked to get very very upset when you call them satanists. They fire back at you we are NOT satanists and they insist that satan was INVENTED by Chrisitanity. This is what the say. And then they say that witchcraft is older then Judaism and is older then the word satan itself.

So I'm confused? are all those witches wrong? lol.

But to be honest, witches really believe in lucifer the god of the rainbow.

Could it really be that all those witches are wrong? Satan really precedes Christianity? Who knew lol.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).