The Irrational Nature Of Atheism - An Explanation Of God, Gods And Goddesses

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The Irrational Nature Of Atheism - An Explanation Of God, Gods And Goddesses

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 wrote:
5 For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Wikipedia wrote:
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2][3] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3][4] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[5][6] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[6][7]

Merriam Webster wrote:

Definition of GOD

1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind 2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality 3 : a person or thing of supreme value 4 : a powerful ruler See god defined for English-language learners »See god defined for kids »

Examples of GOD

  1. Does she believe in God?
  2. I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
  3. the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
  4. a myth about the god of war
  5. an offering for the gods
  6. a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
  7. a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix

Atheists are a peculiar thinking people. If you try and define atheism they will angrily tell you that to be an atheist simply means that one doesn't believe in the existence of a god or gods. If you tell them that you were once an atheist they will angrily tell you that you must not have been a "real" atheist. This has happened to me dozens of times.

If you tell an atheist that according to the Bible and a good modern dictionary a god can be anything or anyone they will say you are distorting definitions to suit your own paradigm and your are intellectually dishonest or disingenuous. The fact is, atheists tend to be extremely emotionally fixed upon their idealism, even more so than the religious, and they tend to be grossly ignorant of the Bible because they oppose modern day Christianity and to a lesser extent, any other theology.

This is my attempt to educate the atheists on what exactly a god, or deity is. God, Gods, Goddesses. The primary argument is that atheism is the disbelief of gods, it denies the existence of gods. The methodology consists of nothing more than the practical common usage of the word God, but no such distinction within the basic tenant of atheism is given, besides, the common usage of a word doesn't negate the other possible uses. The other defense is that the other gods are metaphorical. This is false, because all gods are equally metaphorical in application. The very root of the Hebrew and Greek words for gods indicates this. 

 

What Is A God

The Hebrew word El and variations of it are translated into the English word God. It means "Mighty; Strong."  The Greek word theos is the equivalent, and was used to translate El, Elohim, etc. in the Greek Septuagint of the Hebrew scriptures. When the Hebrew El appears with the definite article ha (ha El, literally meaning "the God&quotEye-wink in the Bible it was in reference strictly to Jehovah, but the various terms used without the definite article may be applied to Jehovah, to other gods, to men.

Isaiah 9:6 wrote:
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God [Hebrew El Gibbohr], Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6 is a prophecy of Jesus Christ, who was a man, and is called a mighty God.

Psalm 82:1, 6 wrote:
God [Hebrew Elohim] is stationing himself in the assembly of the Divine One; In the middle of the gods [Hebrew elohim] he judges: "I myself have said, 'You are gods [Hebrew elohim], And all of you are sons of the Most High.'"

Here Jehovah God calls the human judges of Israel, some of whom were faithful and some of whom were not, gods.

John 10:34, 35 wrote:
Jesus answered them: "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said: "You are gods [Greek theoi, Hebrew elohim]?'" If he called 'gods' those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified,

Here Jesus is faced with the same sort of religiosity that the modern day atheist, under the influence of the modern day misguided theist, displays. A poor understanding and almost superstitious definition of what it means to be a god. He corrects them with their own sacred text, Psalm 82:1, 6, given above.

Exodus 4:16; 7:1 wrote:
And he must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God [Hebrew lelohim] to him. Consequently Jehovah said to Moses: "See, I have made you God [Hebrew elohim] to Pharaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet."

Here again Jehovah God refers to a man, Moses, as an appointed God to Pharaoh and to Aaron. All of these verses of men being gods simply mean that they are mighty, strong. Because that is what the word god means. Anything or anyone who is attributed might or is venerated by another. So Jehovah was the God of Israel, meaning he was mighty to Israel, he was venerated by Israel. Dagon was the god [elohim] to the Philistines. (1 Samuel 5:7)

The problem is that atheists as well as most theists see this as some sort of metaphoric distinction, and that isn't the case. They see the one true God negating the others as false and that isn't necessarily so. Some gods of the nations were "valueless gods" in Jehovah's eyes and supposedly to the faithful Israelites, but that didn't mean that all of the other gods were false, or even that any of them were any less of a god in the eyes of the beholder, because that is what a God is. Something or someone with might or strength in the eyes of the beholder.

 

Why The Confusion?

Jeremiah 23:27 wrote:
They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Baal.

 

There is some confusion, though note that the above definition of a god from a modern dictionary is really in line with what I'm saying a god is. The confusion is caused by the superstitious removal of Jehovah God's name from the scriptures by the Sopherim. The Sopherim, or scribes, changed 134 passages in the Hebrew texts to read Adhonai [Generic term LORD] in place of the tetragrammaton, YHWH, Jehovah God's personal name. They did this in a superstitious attempt to prevent the common man from profaning the name. So when you see LORD in all upper case it is where the name has been removed.
 

Afterwards, the generic title of God became somewhat distorted into being applied exclusively to the God of Israel. The God of the Bible. This is the equivalent of saying you don't believe in man because Adam probably didn't exist. 

 




 

 

 


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 Church organizations

 Church organizations trying to ruin the world based on brutal ancient teachings tend not to be talking about the guitar god, professor or myth definitions.  


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You are like that dog in the

You are like that dog in the Yutube video that is sleep running, your problem is when you get jolted by the mirror in your face you slam into the wall, just like the dog.

There have always been god claims, NOT because gods are real, but because humans find comfort in fiction and merely want to believe it so badly they cannot face reality. Just like that dog sleep ran.

God belief is merely a result of our species piss poor understanding of human  psychologically in that we make up gods because the sugar pill is easier to face than reality.

You resist because you think we are arrogant and hate you. NO we hate the fact that it is 2012 and adults still cling to their gods just like a child clings to Santa. If you can accept that Thor does not make lightening, and the sun is not a god, then it should not be a stretch to understand why we reject your god claim as well.

Our species was around before the invention of your myth, and if it had never been invented, our species still would have evolved. You live without believing in the gods of others, we suggest that you don't need yours eithe, you  just think you do.

 

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stuntgibbon wrote: Church

stuntgibbon wrote:

 Church organizations trying to ruin the world based on brutal ancient teachings tend not to be talking about the guitar god, professor or myth definitions.  

True, but where is that implied as an exclusive consideration of atheism? It isn't. If I had something against the proliferation of church organizations I sure as hell wouldn't call myself by a primitive cultural nomenclature which makes that erroneous distinction. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but was it not you who pointed this out in another thread, preferring the far more accurate anti theist terminology?

 


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The Theist wrote:Atheists

The Theist wrote:

Atheists are a peculiar thinking people.

No, atheism is actually a very natural position. What's so peculiar about not believing in talking snakes, donkeys and burning bushes?

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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The Theist wrote:stuntgibbon

The Theist wrote:

stuntgibbon wrote:

 Church organizations trying to ruin the world based on brutal ancient teachings tend not to be talking about the guitar god, professor or myth definitions.  

True, but where is that implied as an exclusive consideration of atheism? It isn't. If I had something against the proliferation of church organizations I sure as hell wouldn't call myself by a primitive cultural nomenclature which makes that erroneous distinction. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but was it not you who pointed this out in another thread, preferring the far more accurate anti theist terminology?

 

SON OF A BITCH! I knew it, Brian Sapient, you told me there was no secret club. You lied Brian, atheists have their own code language in "anti-theist terminology", you SOB, now send me my decoder ring and card membership now Mr! And you better teach me our atheist secret handshake!

I knew you were holding out on me.

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Brian37 wrote:You are like

Brian37 wrote:

You are like that dog in the Yutube video that is sleep running, your problem is when you get jolted by the mirror in your face you slam into the wall, just like the dog.

[Laughs] Only when I see you holding the mirror, ol' buddy.

Brian37 wrote:
There have always been god claims, NOT because gods are real, but because humans find comfort in fiction and merely want to believe it so badly they cannot face reality. Just like that dog sleep ran.

Here comes another sermon on the nameless gods of your theocratic society. Why don't you just give that shit up and come to grips with the reality that you are in a minority powerless in a delusional theocracy so you can get up off thy soapbox and do something constructive about it?

Brian37 wrote:
God belief is merely a result of our species piss poor understanding of human  psychologically in that we make up gods because the sugar pill is easier to face than reality.

God belief hurts you no less than the myths you, if you have children, and every other atheist teach their children in the early stages of development because it is adorable. Easter, Christmas, tooth fairy, etc. God belief has only been used in the past to kill, maim, destroy, empower, suppress, oppress, monopolize, and promote bigotry and ignorance out of ignorance and your sermons, aside from venting some personal steam and giving you a quasi purpose, do nothing real to alleviate the problem. Educate yourself to prevent it, and keep yourself from applying the same principle to your world view. 

Brian37 wrote:
You resist because you think we are arrogant and hate you.

No I don't! You certainly couldn't be any more arrogant than me, and I don't think we hate one another. I don't hate you Brian, 'ol, buddy.

Brian37 wrote:
NO we hate the fact that it is 2012 and adults still cling to their gods just like a child clings to Santa. If you can accept that Thor does not make lightening, and the sun is not a god, then it should not be a stretch to understand why we reject your god claim as well.

Actually, it does nothing to that effect and you know it.

Brian37 wrote:
Our species was around before the invention of your myth, and if it had never been invented, our species still would have evolved. You live without believing in the gods of others, we suggest that you don't need yours either, you  just think you do.

Do you realize how ludicrous your Utopian application to scientific principle and metaphysical experimentation is in context to your protestation? You are what you hate. You become your enemies.


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AND THANKS TO YOU BRIAN, I

AND THANKS TO YOU BRIAN, I have to make a doctor's appointment to have that chip removed from my head you secretly put in all the atheists heads! I don't have health care dude!

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 Well it's not exclusive,

 Well it's not exclusive, but if someone tried to make the case that perhaps we should be worshiping dead Hendrix, because he was a guitar god... I'm pretty sure I'd reject that notion too.  

 

To me, I think of the term atheist as sitting in a jury or as a judge, and weighing the various cases brought forward for these gods.  If the evidence doesn't hold up, I can dismiss their case.  They haven't even got "god" off the ground, let alone connecting it to all of these troublesome political positions they're trying to influence the world with.  

 

And you're right, I also consider myself to be antitheist especially in the specific cases of the Abrahamic-based religions.  I'm against those ideas whether regardless if they're true.  If someone proves god, they've also got a long road to get me on the side of blood sacrifice having meaning, for one. 


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Luminon wrote:The Theist

Luminon wrote:

The Theist wrote:

 

Atheists are a peculiar thinking people.

No, atheism is actually a very natural position. What's so peculiar about not believing in talking snakes, donkeys and burning bushes?

 

Hey, Luminon, where you been hiding. Actually you are right, and I made this very point earlier somewhere here in another thread. To clarify let me say that atheists tend to be idiots who don't think much about anything and well - that isn't peculiar at all, is it? Thanks for the correction.

Edited To Add: My statement on atheism being natural.

This is all about the supernatural. Atheists tend to subscribe to the notion that a god can essentially only be supernatural or metaphorical. That is incorrect.


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Brian37 wrote:AND THANKS TO

Brian37 wrote:

AND THANKS TO YOU BRIAN, I have to make a doctor's appointment to have that chip removed from my head you secretly put in all the atheists heads! I don't have health care dude!

The chip is on your shoulder, dude, and it's removal doesn't require surgery.


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You don't seem to respond to

You don't seem to respond to my regular posts, so I'll try to dumb the language down a bit. 

So what is your point? I'm not an atheist because I idolize coffee?  

If you ask 10 random people on any street what a god is, not one of them will say that god is an idol.  They will likely choose one of the gods as depicted by Christianity or another major religion.  You will likely have to ask a LOT of people before you will come up with a "god is a cup of coffee because if you search long and hard, under the correct context "god" means "idol", and since I drink more then 2 cups of coffee a day I idolize it, and hence coffee is my god."  

So, in plain English, wtf is your point?  I'm an agnostic atheist, the position that there are, and absolutely can not be a god like (god as in the poplar definition) out there is stupid.  Is that what you are trying to conclude? I'll give you that.

I will argue that the god of the bible is complete bullshit and that you are wasting your time praying.  Don't start a semantic argument and claim that you have the answer to everything, it's dishonest and stupid. 

 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


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The Theist wrote:Brian37

The Theist wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

You are like that dog in the Yutube video that is sleep running, your problem is when you get jolted by the mirror in your face you slam into the wall, just like the dog.

[Laughs] Only when I see you holding the mirror, ol' buddy.

Brian37 wrote:
There have always been god claims, NOT because gods are real, but because humans find comfort in fiction and merely want to believe it so badly they cannot face reality. Just like that dog sleep ran.

Here comes another sermon on the nameless gods of your theocratic society. Why don't you just give that shit up and come to grips with the reality that you are in a minority powerless in a delusional theocracy so you can get up off thy soapbox and do something constructive about it?

Brian37 wrote:
God belief is merely a result of our species piss poor understanding of human  psychologically in that we make up gods because the sugar pill is easier to face than reality.

God belief hurts you no less than the myths you, if you have children, and every other atheist teach their children in the early stages of development because it is adorable. Easter, Christmas, tooth fairy, etc. God belief has only been used in the past to kill, maim, destroy, empower, suppress, oppress, monopolize, and promote bigotry and ignorance out of ignorance and your sermons, aside from venting some personal steam and giving you a quasi purpose, do nothing real to alleviate the problem. Educate yourself to prevent it, and keep yourself from applying the same principle to your world view. 

Brian37 wrote:
You resist because you think we are arrogant and hate you.

No I don't! You certainly couldn't be any more arrogant than me, and I don't think we hate one another. I don't hate you Brian, 'ol, buddy.

Brian37 wrote:
NO we hate the fact that it is 2012 and adults still cling to their gods just like a child clings to Santa. If you can accept that Thor does not make lightening, and the sun is not a god, then it should not be a stretch to understand why we reject your god claim as well.

Actually, it does nothing to that effect and you know it.

Brian37 wrote:
Our species was around before the invention of your myth, and if it had never been invented, our species still would have evolved. You live without believing in the gods of others, we suggest that you don't need yours either, you  just think you do.

Do you realize how ludicrous your Utopian application to scientific principle and metaphysical experimentation is in context to your protestation? You are what you hate. You become your enemies.

Theism teaches utopias, I am well aware that 7 billion people will never all follow the same things, don't be ridiculous. But I am damned sure going to challenge people to think without a hand up their back, and certainly  promote the idea that governments should be secular and keep ANY religion from gaining a monopoly on law.

And where do you get off thinking I value metaphysics? Metaphysics is not science, it is junk. I dare you to show me where I said I valued metaphysics.

Here is what I said and I stand by it.

Brian37 wrote:
God belief is merely a result of our species piss poor understanding of human  psychologically and in that we make up gods because the sugar pill is easier to face than reality.

I cant see the word "metaphysics" in any of that. And metaphysics is not a science in any case. It is a bullshit word people make up just like religion.

 

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                It appears as if The Theist is the new Jean Chauvin.  

 

              Anyone who is familiar with Jean will understand the comparison.  

                 Carry on.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

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The Theist wrote:Brian37

The Theist wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

AND THANKS TO YOU BRIAN, I have to make a doctor's appointment to have that chip removed from my head you secretly put in all the atheists heads! I don't have health care dude!

The chip is on your shoulder, dude, and it's removal doesn't require surgery.

Its called sarcasm "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions" Thomas Jefferson.

But yea I do have a chip on my shoulder, theism affects politics and education globally, and it distracts humanity from making progress. So of course I do, there are far to many theists in this world treating it like a giant game of capture the flag, Since this is the only home I have, I think I have every right to be sarcastic and bitch about those who would fuck us all if given the power. I think I have every right to keep those doomsday jackasses in check.

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The Theist's website is kind

The Theist's website is kind of amusing once you visit it.  The creationist museum should use it as their lobby only because it seems condescending, peaceful, numbing and gives a false sense of security for anyone that enters.

 

*tranquil woman's voice echoes throughout the building* "Hello, friends; we welcome you to our museum of creationism.  Please enjoy your stay with us.  All are WELCOME...all are WELCOME..."

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Sage_Override wrote:The

Sage_Override wrote:

The Theist's website is kind of amusing once you visit it.  The creationist museum should use it as their lobby only because it seems condescending, peaceful, numbing and gives a false sense of security for anyone that enters.

 

*tranquil woman's voice echoes throughout the building* "Hello, friends; we welcome you to our museum of creationism.  Please enjoy your stay with us.  All are WELCOME...all are WELCOME..."

Carol Ann, go into the light, ALL ARE WELCOME.

They're here.

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Sage_Override wrote:The

Sage_Override wrote:

The Theist's website is kind of amusing once you visit it.  The creationist museum should use it as their lobby only because it seems condescending, peaceful, numbing and gives a false sense of security for anyone that enters.

 

*tranquil woman's voice echoes throughout the building* "Hello, friends; we welcome you to our museum of creationism.  Please enjoy your stay with us.  All are WELCOME...all are WELCOME..."

This really is about the most awesome criticism I have ever EVER read of my stuff! And with an awesome fucking avatar, as well! Would you mind if I use that in my signature line?

As insulting as the reference to the creationist museum is you have sort of hit the nail right on the head. The Theist is a museum, but of the collections of Raymond Sheen, a futuristic android who, in human form, had been an atheist. Read The Pathway Machine, though unfinished. It will eventually examine your criticism.

Awesome! Thanks.


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Ktulu wrote:You don't seem

Ktulu wrote:

You don't seem to respond to my regular posts, so I'll try to dumb the language down a bit.

Okay, well, I've told you once, you are intelligent enough but you don't listen. Sometimes I do that as well, so lets give you another chance. Dumb it down for me. Atheism basically means the disbelief in the supernatural. There are no such things as a god or gods, except what we call metaphorical gods.

But then how is it that I have given you, not only a dictionary definition of people being gods but also gave you 3 examples in the Bible of men being called acceptable Gods by the one true God above them all? How do you explain this contradiction?


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From time to time I run a

From time to time I run a concept past my teenage son.  He doesn't care about this sort of debate, and he pays no attention to it, other than he doesn't have a positive belief in a god, he lets me do my thing.  But it's fun to see what he would say from time to time.  I once ran a Ray Comfort argument past him at 9 yrs old and he picked it apart instantly.  So I ran the arguments of "the theist" past my son today.  

the last thing I said was... "so he's arguing that therefore we wouldn't be atheist, because we know these things are real."  

His response was "that's dumb."  

I said... "can you formulate a response, what holes do you see in his argument?"  

He said, "it's too stupid for me to answer, you know... can I play LOTRO now?"  

Me "yeah"

 

If I didn't know theists as well as I do, I would think we were being punked.

 

 

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The Theist wrote:Ktulu

The Theist wrote:

Ktulu wrote:

You don't seem to respond to my regular posts, so I'll try to dumb the language down a bit.

Okay, well, I've told you once, you are intelligent enough but you don't listen. Sometimes I do that as well, so lets give you another chance. Dumb it down for me. Atheism basically means the disbelief in the supernatural. There are no such things as a god or gods, except what we call metaphorical gods.

But then how is it that I have given you, not only a dictionary definition of people being gods but also gave you 3 examples in the Bible of men being called acceptable Gods by the one true God above them all? How do you explain this contradiction?

Sorry, we don't do coloring books. It is quite as simple as people make up gods because that is more comforting to them than to face the reality of our finite existence. None of us here can dumb it down any further than THE OBVIOUS! It is not our fault you like comic books and fictional super heros. We are trying to help you get out of that mental crutch of feeling you need one. Much like when a kid grows up they read at a higher level than when they used coloring books.

 

 

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Sapient wrote:From time to

Sapient wrote:

From time to time I run a concept past my teenage son.  He doesn't care about this sort of debate, and he pays no attention to it, other than he doesn't have a positive belief in a god, he lets me do my thing.  But it's fun to see what he would say from time to time.  I once ran a Ray Comfort argument past him at 9 yrs old and he picked it apart instantly.  So I ran the arguments of "the theist" past my son today.  

the last thing I said was... "so he's arguing that therefore we wouldn't be atheist, because we know these things are real."  

His response was "that's dumb."  

I said... "can you formulate a response, what holes do you see in his argument?"  

He said, "it's too stupid for me to answer, you know... can I play LOTRO now?"  

Me "yeah"

 

If I didn't know theists as well as I do, I would think we were being punked.

 

 

Actually, that was your interpretation, and I gotta agree with the kid, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so atheism by definition is stupid.


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The Theist wrote: I am

The Theist wrote:
I am simply saying that a god can be anything so atheism by definition is stupid.

 

            Say what ever you want  ....define   ....redefine   ...play with semantics however you wish.  If anything is a god than I guess you better get busy worshiping it ?

 

  

 

                               (   PS, Jean Chauvin is waiting to throw down with you over on your Atheist  / Theist Debate thread.   Go match wits with him...  )

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The Theist wrote:Sapient

The Theist wrote:

Sapient wrote:

From time to time I run a concept past my teenage son.  He doesn't care about this sort of debate, and he pays no attention to it, other than he doesn't have a positive belief in a god, he lets me do my thing.  But it's fun to see what he would say from time to time.  I once ran a Ray Comfort argument past him at 9 yrs old and he picked it apart instantly.  So I ran the arguments of "the theist" past my son today.  

the last thing I said was... "so he's arguing that therefore we wouldn't be atheist, because we know these things are real."  

His response was "that's dumb."  

I said... "can you formulate a response, what holes do you see in his argument?"  

He said, "it's too stupid for me to answer, you know... can I play LOTRO now?"  

Me "yeah"

 

If I didn't know theists as well as I do, I would think we were being punked.

 

 

Actually, that was your interpretation, and I gotta agree with the kid, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so atheism by definition is stupid.

Thanks for the petty condescending attitude.

No, "atheist" cannot mean anything. It is merely ONE position, particularly  the "off" position on the issue of god/s, so it cannot be anything.

If you want to call that stupid, we could care less, we aren't the ones claiming non material magical super brains with no location and a magic wand. THAT is what I would define as "stupid". Just like I would think if you are 40 years old and really still believe in the Easter Bunny.

 

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ProzacDeathWish wrote:The

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

The Theist wrote:
I am simply saying that a god can be anything so atheism by definition is stupid.

 

            Say what ever you want  ....define   ....redefine   ...play with semantics however you wish.  If anything is a god than I guess you better get busy worshiping it ?

 

  

 

                               (   PS, Jean Chauvin is waiting to throw down with you over on your Atheist  / Theist Debate thread.   Go match wits with him...  )

 

Lets put it this way, PDW, it is a case of my thinking you have very little comprehension of the simple word God, as misapplied in the definition of atheism. Not with atheism itself or even the term atheism, but rather the definition.

 

As for Jean, maybe years ago I would have taken you up on that, but today, the idea of hashing it out with a theist Christian idiot bores me even more than with an atheist crowd of idiots. Gotta put the Four Noble Truths on The Theist.


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I've found the holes

The Theist wrote:

 

Atheists are a peculiar thinking people. If you try and define atheism they will angrily tell you that to be an atheist simply means that one doesn't believe in the existence of a god or gods. If you tell them that you were once an atheist they will angrily tell you that you must not have been a "real" atheist. This has happened to me dozens of times.

If you tell an atheist that according to the Bible and a good modern dictionary a god can be anything or anyone they will say you are distorting definitions to suit your own paradigm and your are intellectually dishonest or disingenuous. The fact is, atheists tend to be extremely emotionally fixed upon their idealism, even more so than the religious, and they tend to be grossly ignorant of the Bible because they oppose modern day Christianity and to a lesser extent, any other theology.

This is my attempt to educate the atheists on what exactly a god, or deity is. God, Gods, Goddesses. The primary argument is that atheism is the disbelief of gods, it denies the existence of gods. The methodology consists of nothing more than the practical common usage of the word God, but no such distinction within the basic tenant of atheism is given, besides, the common usage of a word doesn't negate the other possible uses. The other defense is that the other gods are metaphorical. This is false, because all gods are equally metaphorical in application. The very root of the Hebrew and Greek words for gods indicates this. 

 

What Is A God

The Hebrew word El and variations of it are translated into the English word God. It means "Mighty; Strong."  The Greek word theos is the equivalent, and was used to translate El, Elohim, etc. in the Greek Septuagint of the Hebrew scriptures. When the Hebrew El appears with the definite article ha (ha El, literally meaning "the God&quotEye-wink in the Bible it was in reference strictly to Jehovah, but the various terms used without the definite article may be applied to Jehovah, to other gods, to men.

 

 

But some one seems to have made off with the goalposts.  

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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The Theist wrote:    As

The Theist wrote:

 

 

 

 

As for Jean, maybe years ago I would have taken you up on that, but today, the idea of hashing it out with a theist Christian idiot scares me even more than with an atheist crowd of idiots. Gotta put the Four Noble Truths on The Theist.

 

                                                                            

                                                                                            Bawk Bawk Bawk !!!

 

 

 

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The Theist wrote:Hey,

The Theist wrote:

Hey, Luminon, where you been hiding. Actually you are right, and I made this very point earlier somewhere here in another thread. To clarify let me say that atheists tend to be idiots who don't think much about anything and well - that isn't peculiar at all, is it? Thanks for the correction.

Edited To Add: My statement on atheism being natural.

This is all about the supernatural. Atheists tend to subscribe to the notion that a god can essentially only be supernatural or metaphorical. That is incorrect.

Well, there are atheists who grew up atheists without giving it much thought, and those who based their atheism on thinking. It's interesting how many atheists of the latter type see atheism as a liberation from religion. I haven't yet seen a believer seeing his religion as liberation from atheism. (there's no atheist church full of pastors and parents shoving atheism down their children throats) But that's not the point.

If God is natural too as you say, then it really changes the situation. Among other things, it would make Bible obsolete, because it treats God as magic. So why do you still use Bible?

If atheism is natural and god is natural, does it mean that atheism is divine? After all, the god doesn't believe that he has a creator Smiling

The Theist wrote:

Actually, that was your interpretation, and I gotta agree with the kid, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so atheism by definition is stupid.

I spent half a year studying applied informatics. At one of lessons I learned an interesting term, namely "tautology", which means an always true statement, like G = G. Colloquially, tautology is used as the word for nonsense. 
So if anything can be a god as you say, then god is a tautology. If we can eliminate G from both sides of the equation, god is as good to us as no god at all and we can ignore him.

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Luminon wrote:Well, there

Luminon wrote:
Well, there are atheists who grew up atheists without giving it much thought, and those who based their atheism on thinking.

I was an atheist in the former category. I've read about the latter category but have yet to encounter any of them.

Luminon wrote:
It's interesting how many atheists of the latter type see atheism as a liberation from religion. I haven't yet seen a believer seeing his religion as liberation from atheism. (there's no atheist church full of pastors and parents shoving atheism down their children throats) But that's not the point.

To some small extent I would have to disagree with you there. There is too much atheist sort of propaganda in modern day science as taught in school with evolution. I probably should have kept that to myself, but since its not the point lets quickly move on.

Luminon wrote:
If God is natural too as you say, then it really changes the situation. Among other things, it would make Bible obsolete, because it treats God as magic. So why do you still use Bible?

If atheism is natural and god is natural, does it mean that atheism is divine? After all, the god doesn't believe that he has a creator Smiling

Well, that would depend upon which God you were referring to. Jehovah, the God of the Bible, is supernatural. But other examples of Gods, even in the Bible, are mortal men. The word god simply means mighty and is applied to men, the supernatural, and inanimate objects. A god is anything considered mighty or venerated. So it doesn't make or seem to make God as magic. 

Luminon wrote:
I spent half a year studying applied informatics. At one of lessons I learned an interesting term, namely "tautology", which means an always true statement, like G = G. Colloquially, tautology is used as the word for nonsense. 


So if anything can be a god as you say, then god is a tautology. If we can eliminate G from both sides of the equation, god is as good to us as no god at all and we can ignore him.
 I appreciate at least your being open and giving it some thought without being emotionally attached, but you are missing the point because you are seeing God as just a specific entity. A God doesn't have to be the Creator, or supernatural. Someone being a guitar God like Clapton, or Fictional God like Frodo is the best examples of modern day Gods, simply because it has come to mean, almost exclusively, an application to the specific God of the Bible.  God isn't the creator, necessarily, but the Creator is a God. Tammuz, the Sumerian King Dumuzi, deified upon his death was a god, but he wasn't God. God, in the sense of being capitalized is applied exclusively to the Jewish / Christian God, as far as I know, but I suppose could be applied to any specific God of any specific people in that it would be an exclusive God or God above all others in the henothesitic sense as in the Bible.

 


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Brian37 wrote:Thanks for the

Brian37 wrote:
Thanks for the petty condescending attitude.

No, "atheist" cannot mean anything. It is merely ONE position, particularly  the "off" position on the issue of god/s, so it cannot be anything.

If you want to call that stupid, we could care less, we aren't the ones claiming non material magical super brains with no location and a magic wand. THAT is what I would define as "stupid". Just like I would think if you are 40 years old and really still believe in the Easter Bunny.

 

If you would listen to me you might get what I'm trying to say. I didn't say atheist can mean anything, I said atheism is the disbelief in god or gods. It isn't well understood that a god is what can be anything. In the Bible sticks, stones, literal persons, and even ones own belly are called gods. Those are real things that can't be questioned as existing. They are every bit gods as the one true God of the Bible. This is really simple stuff.

Oh, and I never ever believed in the Easter bunny or Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy. Not even as a very young child. I was fortunate not to have been taught those fables. Even very young I was taught that those things were make believe for fun, and that is how I thought of them.


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Theist, why do you insist

Theist, why do you insist that we have to use all definitions of god simultaneously in order to use the term? Do you apply this rule to any other word, or just "god"?

 

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The Theist wrote:Actually,

The Theist wrote:

Actually, that was your interpretation, and I gotta agree with the kid, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so atheism by definition is stupid.

And by "the kid" you mean Christianity.  And by "atheism" you mean "the theist" right?

So you said, "I gotta agree with Christianity, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so I am by definition stupid." - you

 

This redefining words whenever it suits my needs thing is kind of fun.  Sure I feel dirty, but at least I get to make a point.

 

 

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The Theist wrote:I am simply

The Theist wrote:

I am simply saying that a god can be anything...

Like poop?

 


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digitalbeachbum wrote:The

digitalbeachbum wrote:

The Theist wrote:

I am simply saying that a god can be anything...

Like poop?

 

 

Yes, if you wish. I'm sure you wouldn't be the first.


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The Theist

The Theist wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

The Theist wrote:

I am simply saying that a god can be anything...

Like poop?

 

 Yes, if you wish. I'm sure you wouldn't be the first.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, you are like what? 16? 17? Did bible camp let out early and you came home with a ton of new misinformation? Did you actually think you were coming to these forums to convert us?

 

 

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Juvenile Narcissist

Juvenile Narcissist wrote:

Theist, why do you insist that we have to use all definitions of god simultaneously in order to use the term? Do you apply this rule to any other word, or just "god"?

Because the word god means anything that is attributed might or venerated. The definition of atheism doesn't specify which god or gods they are referring to. I have never, ever heard anyone specify the gods who's existence is being questioned because the inference by common usage is one specific supernatural god at the exclusion of all the others and that isn't correct thinking.

You have to specify Jehovah God. The God of Israel. The God of the Bible. or even, I would suppose, Allah, whom you would probably think is the same as all the aforementioned.

God is not a name. If I say "Goddamn" I am not using God's name in vain. Adam was a man. Jehovah is a God. Moses was a God. Satan is a God. Dagon is a God. The Judges of Israel were gods. The angels were gods. Molech is a god. Zeus is a god. Astarte is a goddess. Astoreth is a god. Tammuz was a Sumerian king and, upon his death, as was the Sumerian tradition for kings, was a god. Jesus was a god. Paul referred to people whose belly were their gods. The dictionary says gods can be important people, rulers, a balcony or the people in the balcony. An idol is a god. Made of wood, of stone, of metal. Money can be a god. Sex can be a god. Anything and anyone can be a god. 

In order to wrap your head around this all you need to do is to realize that:

1. Anything and anyone can be a god.

2. God isn't a name, its a title.

3. God isn't the only god, except to the Christians and only then in the sense that the one God, Jehovah is above all others.

4. The Bible isn't monotheistic or polytheistic it is henothesitic, which means worshiping one god though acknowledging others.

5. In the Bible many true gods are mentioned, some of them mortal humans.


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHA, you are like what? 16? 17? Did bible camp let out early and you came home with a ton of new misinformation? Did you actually think you were coming to these forums to convert us?

I'm not an idiot. Well, that isn't entirely true, I often am an idiot, but not so much so that I think that anyone can convert anyone else. Don't worry your fragile eggshell mind.

Anyway you are the one that brought it up and if you research, I'm sure you will find someone somewhere in the distant path who's deity consisted of excrement. Feces. Dung. Fecal matter. Poop. Doo doo.

If that amuses the kid inside then it may also amuse you to know that the Roman cross Jesus allegedly is thought to have died on (though only until after the latter part of the 4th century C.E.) is a phallic symbol.


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Sapient wrote:The Theist

Sapient wrote:

The Theist wrote:

Actually, that was your interpretation, and I gotta agree with the kid, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so atheism by definition is stupid.

And by "the kid" you mean Christianity.  And by "atheism" you mean "the theist" right?

So you said, "I gotta agree with Christianity, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so I am by definition stupid." - you

 

This redefining words whenever it suits my needs thing is kind of fun.  Sure I feel dirty, but at least I get to make a point.

 

 

It isn't a case of redefining words, you smug dumb asshole, its a case of using them properly.


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The Theist wrote: I

The Theist wrote:

I appreciate at least your being open and giving it some thought without being emotionally attached, but you are missing the point because you are seeing God as just a specific entity. A God doesn't have to be the Creator, or supernatural. Someone being a guitar God like Clapton, or Fictional God like Frodo is the best examples of modern day Gods, simply because it has come to mean, almost exclusively, an application to the specific God of the Bible.
OK, then this isn't a religious point at all, it's more like linguistic. Which reminds me of one apologetic tactics: "Have you ever lied? Then you're a liar. Can a liar enter the Kingdom?" apologetists say. What we see in both examples is an incorrect use of language. There are many people, who ever told a lie. If all of them are called liars, then the word loses its meaning and is used dishonestly. We should only call liars those, who lie extraordinarily.
Similarly, when you replace the word "liar" for "god", the word loses all its meaning, there is just too many gods. And why only positive qualities apply? For example, Mohandas Gandhi once was a wife beater. Does it mean he is a god of domestic violence? Or my former roommate had great problems with his bowels (due to too much beer probably), does that make him a god of thunderous pooping?   
The Theist wrote:
 God isn't the creator, necessarily, but the Creator is a God. Tammuz, the Sumerian King Dumuzi, deified upon his death was a god, but he wasn't God. God, in the sense of being capitalized is applied exclusively to the Jewish / Christian God, as far as I know, but I suppose could be applied to any specific God of any specific people in that it would be an exclusive God or God above all others in the henothesitic sense as in the Bible.

In this case I recommend one wonderful video how God came to existence. I only found it again very recently.

 

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Luminon wrote:The Theist

Luminon wrote:

The Theist wrote:

I appreciate at least your being open and giving it some thought without being emotionally attached, but you are missing the point because you are seeing God as just a specific entity. A God doesn't have to be the Creator, or supernatural. Someone being a guitar God like Clapton, or Fictional God like Frodo is the best examples of modern day Gods, simply because it has come to mean, almost exclusively, an application to the specific God of the Bible.
OK, then this isn't a religious point at all, it's more like linguistic. Which reminds me of one apologetic tactics: "Have you ever lied? Then you're a liar. Can a liar enter the Kingdom?" apologetists say. What we see in both examples is an incorrect use of language. There are many people, who ever told a lie. If all of them are called liars, then the word loses its meaning and is used dishonestly. We should only call liars those, who lie extraordinarily.
Similarly, when you replace the word "liar" for "god", the word loses all its meaning, there is just too many gods. And why only positive qualities apply? For example, Mohandas Gandhi once was a wife beater. Does it mean he is a god of domestic violence? Or my former roommate had great problems with his bowels (due to too much beer probably), does that make him a god of thunderous pooping?   
The Theist wrote:
 God isn't the creator, necessarily, but the Creator is a God. Tammuz, the Sumerian King Dumuzi, deified upon his death was a god, but he wasn't God. God, in the sense of being capitalized is applied exclusively to the Jewish / Christian God, as far as I know, but I suppose could be applied to any specific God of any specific people in that it would be an exclusive God or God above all others in the henothesitic sense as in the Bible.

In this case I recommend one wonderful video how God came to existence. I only found it again very recently.

 

I like the sentiment of that quote, but I disagree with it. Even if someone doesn't ask for being followed, worship is a sure fire way to fuck life up. I wouldn't advise "worship" either way. If if we are talking about a politician and not a god even if they are not forcing you to bow to them, even if they have good intent, blindly following, even those you admire, is not a good idea.

"Worship" is merely replacing questioning with our emotional desires and far to often throws pragmatism under the bus.

 

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The Theist

The Theist wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHA, you are like what? 16? 17? Did bible camp let out early and you came home with a ton of new misinformation? Did you actually think you were coming to these forums to convert us?

I'm not an idiot. Well, that isn't entirely true, I often am an idiot, but not so much so that I think that anyone can convert anyone else. Don't worry your fragile eggshell mind.

Anyway you are the one that brought it up and if you research, I'm sure you will find someone somewhere in the distant path who's deity consisted of excrement. Feces. Dung. Fecal matter. Poop. Doo doo.

If that amuses the kid inside then it may also amuse you to know that the Roman cross Jesus allegedly is thought to have died on (though only until after the latter part of the 4th century C.E.) is a phallic symbol.

Oh praise the heavens! I was worried you were going to use that magic wand on me and convert me in to a follower of your newly formed religion.

Ah, research, a word you like to use here in these forums but to which you have never actually experienced.

Technicality, yes at some point in the history of this planet the atoms from the poop of a T-Rex are atoms which we all have/had in our body. The poop from that T-Rex isn't buddha but the T-Rex has the potential to be buddha, as well you.

Roman cross? I thought the romans chopped him up and stuffed him in to a cornucopia so they would have a center piece for their big feast.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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The Theist wrote:Sapient

The Theist wrote:

Sapient wrote:

The Theist wrote:

Actually, that was your interpretation, and I gotta agree with the kid, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so atheism by definition is stupid.

And by "the kid" you mean Christianity.  And by "atheism" you mean "the theist" right?

So you said, "I gotta agree with Christianity, it is dumb. I am simply saying that a god can be anything so I am by definition stupid." - you

This redefining words whenever it suits my needs thing is kind of fun.  Sure I feel dirty, but at least I get to make a point.

It isn't a case of redefining words, you smug dumb asshole, its a case of using them properly.

Yet again with the name calling

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The Theist wrote:The

The Theist wrote:

The dictionary says gods can be important people, rulers, a balcony or the people in the balcony. An idol is a god. Made of wood, of stone, of metal. Money can be a god. Sex can be a god. Anything and anyone can be a god. 

 

           Do atheists dispute the existence of:

     1) "important people"

     2) "rulers"

     3) "a balcony"

     4) "the people in the balcony"

     5) "gods made of wood, stone, metal, money, sex, anyone"  ?

 

      Atheists dispute the existence of the SUPERNATURAL and everything that it implies.

 

 

 

 

   

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The Theist wrote:It isn't a

The Theist wrote:

 

It isn't a case of redefining words, you smug dumb asshole, its a case of using them properly.

 

    Here's a new word for you, you "smug dumb asshole" it's....

 

                                                                                               SUPERNATURAL.

 

 

 

  Hopefully you won't fall all over yourself stumbling through dictionaries attempting to baffle us with more word games you "smug dumb ass hole"

 

 

 

(  Oh, of course you know that "smug" has more than one definition ?  Can you use context to figure out  my usage or do you need help with that also ?  )

 

 

 

 

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@luminon

Nice video. Not only is the information rational it is believable because of the history of man. I had know that christianity was originally another religions but didn't realize how deep it went down the hole.

I like the product value also. Very well done.

 

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Thanks Lum

Luminon wrote:

The Theist wrote:

I appreciate at least your being open and giving it some thought without being emotionally attached, but you are missing the point because you are seeing God as just a specific entity. A God doesn't have to be the Creator, or supernatural. Someone being a guitar God like Clapton, or Fictional God like Frodo is the best examples of modern day Gods, simply because it has come to mean, almost exclusively, an application to the specific God of the Bible.
OK, then this isn't a religious point at all, it's more like linguistic. Which reminds me of one apologetic tactics: "Have you ever lied? Then you're a liar. Can a liar enter the Kingdom?" apologetists say. What we see in both examples is an incorrect use of language. There are many people, who ever told a lie. If all of them are called liars, then the word loses its meaning and is used dishonestly. We should only call liars those, who lie extraordinarily.
Similarly, when you replace the word "liar" for "god", the word loses all its meaning, there is just too many gods. And why only positive qualities apply? For example, Mohandas Gandhi once was a wife beater. Does it mean he is a god of domestic violence? Or my former roommate had great problems with his bowels (due to too much beer probably), does that make him a god of thunderous pooping?   
The Theist wrote:
 God isn't the creator, necessarily, but the Creator is a God. Tammuz, the Sumerian King Dumuzi, deified upon his death was a god, but he wasn't God. God, in the sense of being capitalized is applied exclusively to the Jewish / Christian God, as far as I know, but I suppose could be applied to any specific God of any specific people in that it would be an exclusive God or God above all others in the henothesitic sense as in the Bible.

In this case I recommend one wonderful video how God came to existence. I only found it again very recently.

 

Fuckin' A++  Lum. I skipped past this film the first time cuz I was in a hurry. You should put this in it's own post so everyone catches it. Good Shits Man! Thanks alot.

"...but truth is a point of view, and so it is changeable. And to rule by fettering the mind through fear of punishment in another world is just as base as to use force." -Hypatia


Odemus
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I prefer a distinction

I prefer a distinction between knowledge and belief, which is why I consider myself a "soft" atheist of the belief lacking variety. I know no entity intelligent or not, responsible for the existence of life and the universe. Call it a god or whatever the fuck you want. I'm addressing the attributes, not the title. This of course is the thing atheists are targeting, not dictionary definitions. We can't know what to specifically lack belief in until you present us with concrete clarification. The whole argument defining god as "anything revered" serves absolutely no purpose.

Do you believe you are the subject of an entity responsible for the existence of the universe, and does this entity communicate a purpose for your life to you?

That is the only question atheists are interested in debating. I really don't give a shit if you call Abraham a god. He's a dead man made of dust, plain and simple. How is this line of reasoning even interesting to you?

 


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Quote:The Theist wrote: "I'm

Quote:
The Theist wrote: "I'm not an idiot. Well, that isn't entirely true, I often am an idiot, but not so much so that I think that anyone can convert anyone else. Don't worry your fragile eggshell mind."

 

 

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


ProzacDeathWish
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Sage_Override wrote:    

Sage_Override wrote:

 

 

 

  Sage, was that a picture of God, cause you know The Theist said ANYTHING could be God.   Oh my God, Brent Spiner is GOD !!!  I see how it works now, thank you The Theist....I revere you now so you're God, too !  Creating Gods is so god damned easy !!!

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


ProzacDeathWish
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          Wait a

 

         Wait a minute, does that mean that Brent Spiner is also a balcony, 'cause  The Theist said balconies are gods, too !  

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

"When a man loves cats, I am his friend and comrade, without further introduction." Mark Twain.


The Theist
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digitalbeachbum wrote:Yet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Yet again with the name calling

The guy keeps calling me a liar. I don't mind being called wrong but I'm not a liar. I demonstrated my case and anyone with an open mind could see that. He is emotionally attached to his beliefs. Religious. He is detached from the truth when it is put before him. Like you when you mock and never respond to what I tell you.