Gas Pumps: Not getting what you pay for

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Gas Pumps: Not getting what you pay for

Roughly around 20 years ago I noticed some thing strange about the digital pumps at gas stations. I had worked during the early 80's at a gas station which had the older analog pumps and when we pumped gas for a customer we would roll the # of gallons up to the amount the customer wanted with out going over.

What I mean is that if a customer wanted $20 worth of gas we would not stop the pump once we hit $20. You could actually pump a little bit more before the counter would roll over to $20.01.

Today you have digital pumps and when people pump they stop at $20, but it is unknown to the public that the gas that they have paid for is still sitting in the pump and not in their gas tanks.

Think I'm crazy? My family and friends thought so, which is why I sort of let it go and didn't say any thing. But when I go to the gas station I think I'm the only person in the world who actually tries to get that last .3 of a gallon so I get my total amount of gas I purchased.

If any one wants to suggest that we do some thing, maybe we can show that the oil companies are actually ripping off the american people for the tune of trillions of dollars every year. Maybe we can get them to change the way the pumps work.

Personally I have always wondered why you can't pick "give me 20 bucks" from the screen like you did back in the 80's when we had full service stations.

 

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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Roughly around 20 years ago I noticed some thing strange about the digital pumps at gas stations. I had worked during the early 80's at a gas station which had the older analog pumps and when we pumped gas for a customer we would roll the # of gallons up to the amount the customer wanted with out going over.

What I mean is that if a customer wanted $20 worth of gas we would not stop the pump once we hit $20. You could actually pump a little bit more before the counter would roll over to $20.01.

Today you have digital pumps and when people pump they stop at $20, but it is unknown to the public that the gas that they have paid for is still sitting in the pump and not in their gas tanks.

Think I'm crazy? My family and friends thought so, which is why I sort of let it go and didn't say any thing. But when I go to the gas station I think I'm the only person in the world who actually tries to get that last .3 of a gallon so I get my total amount of gas I purchased.

If any one wants to suggest that we do some thing, maybe we can show that the oil companies are actually ripping off the american people for the tune of trillions of dollars every year. Maybe we can get them to change the way the pumps work.

Personally I have always wondered why you can't pick "give me 20 bucks" from the screen like you did back in the 80's when we had full service stations.

 

Duh, it is their way of skimming more since you don't have a fleet of lawyers. Petty theft in mass adds up.

But it is worse than that, some stations will install illegal digital measuring chips to make it look like you are getting what you pay for.

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The oil companies are

The oil companies are running a monopoly which is a crime in and of itself. Skimming the pumps is the way the owner compensates for getting ripped off themselves.

Oil is no different than diamonds and gold, tightly regulated by the few and way over priced.

Now here comes Beyond who thinks the private sector never does anything wrong.

 

 

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 Here is Beyond who owns a

 Here is Beyond who owns a company that works with county auditors. The accuracy of gas pumps is confirmed by a third party. Every gas pump has a sticker on it that states the month and year that it was last checked and the government pays people to go around and check the accuracy and fuel quality of every pump. Some states do it through the agriculture department, Ohio does it through the county auditor.

 

I believe the accuracy requirement in Ohio is +/- 6 cubic inches per 5 gallons which roughly translates to +/- 0.5%. Most states check them quite regularly, usually at least once a year. Typically, somewhere around 95% of gas pumps are within the allowed margin of error. The most common cause of inaccurate pumps is leaks or problems with the pressure system. I have been told that on pumps with low pressure chances are that an inaccurate pump is likely to go the consumers way and you get more gas than you paid for. So next time you are pissed off at how slow a pump is going, remember you are probably getting a few pennies extra. In fact, where I live you are almost twice as likely to get more gas than you paid for than you are to get less.

 

The bottom line is that the gas stations aren't screwing you in mass. An average of 1 out of 20 times give or take you will receive a slightly different amount of gas than you paid for, sometimes less, sometimes more but the pumps are quite accurate for the most part. You can contact your local auditor or ag dept or whatever agency checks pumps in your state (the sticker on the pump will tell you which agency is responsible) and they will provide you with a report of the accuracy of pumps in your area and you can also find out how to report pumps you believe are suspicious.

 

And if you are really concerned about your pennies stick with low pressure pumps. I'll pay the extra 10 cents or whatever to not wait an extra few minutes in the cold.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: Here

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Here is Beyond who owns a company that works with county auditors. The accuracy of gas pumps is confirmed by a third party. Every gas pump has a sticker on it that states the month and year that it was last checked and the government pays people to go around and check the accuracy and fuel quality of every pump. Some states do it through the agriculture department, Ohio does it through the county auditor.

 

I believe the accuracy requirement in Ohio is +/- 6 cubic inches per 5 gallons which roughly translates to +/- 0.5%. Most states check them quite regularly, usually at least once a year. Typically, somewhere around 95% of gas pumps are within the allowed margin of error. The most common cause of inaccurate pumps is leaks or problems with the pressure system. I have been told that on pumps with low pressure chances are that an inaccurate pump is likely to go the consumers way and you get more gas than you paid for. So next time you are pissed off at how slow a pump is going, remember you are probably getting a few pennies extra. In fact, where I live you are almost twice as likely to get more gas than you paid for than you are to get less.

 

The bottom line is that the gas stations aren't screwing you in mass. An average of 1 out of 20 times give or take you will receive a slightly different amount of gas than you paid for, sometimes less, sometimes more but the pumps are quite accurate for the most part. You can contact your local auditor or ag dept or whatever agency checks pumps in your state (the sticker on the pump will tell you which agency is responsible) and they will provide you with a report of the accuracy of pumps in your area and you can also find out how to report pumps you believe are suspicious.

 

And if you are really concerned about your pennies stick with low pressure pumps. I'll pay the extra 10 cents or whatever to not wait an extra few minutes in the cold.  

You talk about accuracy laws, who the fuck do you think paid off legislators to make the discrepancies legal? A few drops here, who cares? I do.

That is a bunch of bullshit. Legal doesn't equate to moral. You know damned well if these assholes who own the oil companies can balance their books down to the penny they most certainly can make a pump that measures it down to the drop. It is legalized skimming. Fine print can make any scam legal.

I used to work at a major pizza chain and the time clock was computerized. Every night the manager would clock us out before we were finished, because they were trained under threat of being fired to save money. Now, you'd say quit, if you don't like it, like a dumbass. But it still doesn't make it moral and it wouldn't have changed a damned thing if I had quit.

Big business makes the fucking rules and until people like me stand up to them they will continue to get away with whatever they think they can. Putting something on paper in the form of law doesn't make it moral.

Your arguments are convoluted and just elaborate tripe. You want me to feel sorry for companies who have the means to make their technology more accurate but dont? Who do you think you are fooling. They deliberately set up the pumps that way.

You just don't want to face the fact that ANY human venture, be it a government, OR a private business can become corrupt when left to it's own devices. I see nothing moral at all about what oil companies do and your hogwash about global market demands is bullshit.

A free market and supply and demand are one thing, but that is NOT what we have here. We have a corrupt rigged market that benefits the top and the top only. You have got to be kidding me to think for one second that BP gave one shit about it caused before hand. And you have got to be kidding me when Exxon gets tax breaks even when the clerks at the station don't get paid shit.

Big business has bullied our government and bought it off and it has dumped it's losses on the rest of us. Those pumps were not set up that way by accident and they damned well know it, regardless of how "legal" it is.

 

 

 

 

 

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Beyond Saving wrote: Here

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Here is Beyond who owns a company that works with county auditors. The accuracy of gas pumps is confirmed by a third party. Every gas pump has a sticker on it that states the month and year that it was last checked and the government pays people to go around and check the accuracy and fuel quality of every pump. Some states do it through the agriculture department, Ohio does it through the county auditor.

 I believe the accuracy requirement in Ohio is +/- 6 cubic inches per 5 gallons which roughly translates to +/- 0.5%. Most states check them quite regularly, usually at least once a year. Typically, somewhere around 95% of gas pumps are within the allowed margin of error. The most common cause of inaccurate pumps is leaks or problems with the pressure system. I have been told that on pumps with low pressure chances are that an inaccurate pump is likely to go the consumers way and you get more gas than you paid for. So next time you are pissed off at how slow a pump is going, remember you are probably getting a few pennies extra. In fact, where I live you are almost twice as likely to get more gas than you paid for than you are to get less.

 The bottom line is that the gas stations aren't screwing you in mass. An average of 1 out of 20 times give or take you will receive a slightly different amount of gas than you paid for, sometimes less, sometimes more but the pumps are quite accurate for the most part. You can contact your local auditor or ag dept or whatever agency checks pumps in your state (the sticker on the pump will tell you which agency is responsible) and they will provide you with a report of the accuracy of pumps in your area and you can also find out how to report pumps you believe are suspicious.

 And if you are really concerned about your pennies stick with low pressure pumps. I'll pay the extra 10 cents or whatever to not wait an extra few minutes in the cold.  

I was at the gas pump yesterday and I heard one of the customers say "I heard that slow pumps are better because you get more gasoline.. blah blah". Personally I thought it was bullshit because of what you said above...

but what I was talking about is factual.

If you stop the pump at $20 you are pretty much screwed because you aren' t getting the full amount you paid for; if you try to squeeze out that last few pennies you most likely will go over thus paying $20.01 for less gasoline.

Why don't they have pumps which give you EXACTLY what you ask for?

Why don't they have pumps which ask you "how many gallons do you want"?

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Beyond

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Here is Beyond who owns a company that works with county auditors. The accuracy of gas pumps is confirmed by a third party. Every gas pump has a sticker on it that states the month and year that it was last checked and the government pays people to go around and check the accuracy and fuel quality of every pump. Some states do it through the agriculture department, Ohio does it through the county auditor.

 I believe the accuracy requirement in Ohio is +/- 6 cubic inches per 5 gallons which roughly translates to +/- 0.5%. Most states check them quite regularly, usually at least once a year. Typically, somewhere around 95% of gas pumps are within the allowed margin of error. The most common cause of inaccurate pumps is leaks or problems with the pressure system. I have been told that on pumps with low pressure chances are that an inaccurate pump is likely to go the consumers way and you get more gas than you paid for. So next time you are pissed off at how slow a pump is going, remember you are probably getting a few pennies extra. In fact, where I live you are almost twice as likely to get more gas than you paid for than you are to get less.

 The bottom line is that the gas stations aren't screwing you in mass. An average of 1 out of 20 times give or take you will receive a slightly different amount of gas than you paid for, sometimes less, sometimes more but the pumps are quite accurate for the most part. You can contact your local auditor or ag dept or whatever agency checks pumps in your state (the sticker on the pump will tell you which agency is responsible) and they will provide you with a report of the accuracy of pumps in your area and you can also find out how to report pumps you believe are suspicious.

 And if you are really concerned about your pennies stick with low pressure pumps. I'll pay the extra 10 cents or whatever to not wait an extra few minutes in the cold.  

I was at the gas pump yesterday and I heard one of the customers say "I heard that slow pumps are better because you get more gasoline.. blah blah". Personally I thought it was bullshit because of what you said above...

but what I was talking about is factual.

If you stop the pump at $20 you are pretty much screwed because you aren' t getting the full amount you paid for; if you try to squeeze out that last few pennies you most likely will go over thus paying $20.01 for less gasoline.

Why don't they have pumps which give you EXACTLY what you ask for?

Why don't they have pumps which ask you "how many gallons do you want"?

 

That is how they make more money, Being exact would make them less money. No different a scam than the gift cards you buy. They know damned well that the fine print allows them to keep the unused portion. Big money makes our laws and the middle class and working poor need to stand up to these bullies,

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Brian37 wrote:You talk about

Brian37 wrote:

You talk about accuracy laws, who the fuck do you think paid off legislators to make the discrepancies legal? A few drops here, who cares? I do.

Then why the fuck are we paying a guy to go around and test them? If there is some great conspiracy we might as well save our tax money and only get screwed on one front.

 

I'm willing to bet that at some point eating at an establishment like yours and my sirloin was 5.97 ounces instead of the promised 6- was it because you were trying to screw me? Greedy bastard! There are discrepancies because human workers are fucking worthless and make mistakes. I agree, we should summarily execute any human who makes a product that isn't 100% perfect in every way, we have tons of excess labor in China and we have this imaginary overpopulation problem anyway. We can kill 3 birds with one stone. 

 

Seriously though, do the math 6 cubic inches out of five gallons, how much money do you lose filling up a 15 gallon tank? (231 cubic inches per gallon) And remember that is the absolute worst before it gets shut down, the vast majority of gas pumps are much more accurate than that. It is pretty damn accurate. I daresay you pay more in taxes to cover inspectors salaries than you get "screwed" out of by inaccurate pumps. 

 

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I was at the gas pump yesterday and I heard one of the customers say "I heard that slow pumps are better because you get more gasoline.. blah blah". Personally I thought it was bullshit because of what you said above...

 

I'm just relaying information I received from a guy who gets paid to test the pumps. I have no idea what the scientific basis behind it is or if it is necessarily true in all cases. He made that observation to me, I relayed it. I'm inclined to believe him since it is what he does for a living and I have no evidence to the contrary. It could be an old wives tale.  

 

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

but what I was talking about is factual.

Huh, I must have missed the facts. All I saw was a story about what you feel with no supporting evidence. As such I was forced to turn to my own source of evidence which is my knowledge that all gas stations are inspected regularly and the end of year report I saw for my own county because like you I was curious about how accurate the pumps were. Since it is done on a county by county basis feel free to find an example where fuel pumps aren't accurate and there is an obvious effort to purposefully screw customers. Since no journalist has dug it up yet I am inclined to believe that no such example exists. Prove me wrong, most counties publish those reports on the internet. But excuse me if I don't take your word for it. 

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

If you stop the pump at $20 you are pretty much screwed because you aren' t getting the full amount you paid for; if you try to squeeze out that last few pennies you most likely will go over thus paying $20.01 for less gasoline.

Prove it. You can go to the appropriate government agency in your state and get a detailed report on how many pumps were tested, how far off they were and whether they were over or under. You declare there is a problem but provide no evidence. Unless you believe like Brian that every tester out there is being bribed, but then again- show me some evidence of all this bribery to squeeze a few pennies out of you. 

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why don't they have pumps which give you EXACTLY what you ask for?

Because there is no god. The world is an imperfect place. Most pumps start out with near perfect accuracy but time, weather and use take their toll. For the same reason the gas gauge in your car might fail, so it does at the pump welcome to reality. Nothing is perfect. The scales at the grocery store can be off as much as 0.04 pounds, your "1 cup" measuring cup in your cabinet is probably not even close to 1 cup, your 1 gallon of milk probably isn't exactly a gallon, the sirloins at the breakfast place are probably not exactly 6 ounces if it is a fancy place that charges twice as much and cuts them fresh odds are they are even further from perfection, even my favorite bartender pours me beers that are not exactly 20 ounces. The world is simply not a perfect place, being within +/- 0.5% is pretty impressive. If you think you could make a pump more accurate, do it. I'm sure gas stations would love to buy a pump that was 100% guaranteed to never give the customer one extra drop if you could provide it to them for a similar cost. 

 

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Why don't they have pumps which ask you "how many gallons do you want"?

 

You can prepay inside and the pump will stop right at $20 or pay with a gift card and it will stop at the last penny. I imagine they don't install the option outside for credit cards because it is cheaper not to or no one really thought there would be a demand for such a thing. Most people that picky are probably paying cash anyway which virtually everywhere now requires you to walk inside and prepay. 

 

All you have is conjecture. Supply some evidence that such ripoffs are real. Heck, buy a prover yourself and go around testing pumps if you can make a video showing that inspectors are regularly wrong you should have a good youtube hit. My money is that your feeling about how much gas came out of the pump is far less accurate than the pump itself and the testing equipment used by the inspectors. Unless meditation has made you so in touch with the world that you can sense exactly how much gas has come out with +/- 0.5% accuracy, that would be one hell of an impressive parlor trick.

 

If you do have reason to suspect a pump you used is inaccurate the number to report it is on the big sticker, call it, then the lazy inspector sitting there bullshitting with a guy like me has something to do. It is possible, there are cases of inaccurate pumps, but it certainly is not a large percentage of them. If you are just going to come on here and spout off anecdotal evidence based on your feelings that are contrary to the available numerical evidence I'm going to call it out for the bullshit it is.

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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  http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2011/may/11/8/nbc4-investigates-faulty-gas-pumps-ar-485407/

Quote:

According to the Franklin County Auditor's Office, in 2010, errors were found on 159 pumps.  In 121 cases, the errors favored the consumer.  In 38 cases, the errors favored the gas station.

Those sneaky greedy gas stations. Why they are so inaccurate they screwed themselves! This is similar to what I saw in the report for my county. Check yours, I suspect it is pretty standard that errors go both ways and gas stations prefer to err on the side of too much gas because they don't want to be the speedway or swifty station in this news report highlighted for being two stations that had the two worst performing pumps for the consumer, although the journalist was too lazy to inform us how the other pumps at these same stations worked, were other pumps at these stations giving away gas? Or was there a consistent short change going on? As someone who has been at that speedway before I want to know. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: 

Beyond Saving wrote:

  http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2011/may/11/8/nbc4-investigates-faulty-gas-pumps-ar-485407/

Quote:

According to the Franklin County Auditor's Office, in 2010, errors were found on 159 pumps.  In 121 cases, the errors favored the consumer.  In 38 cases, the errors favored the gas station.

Those sneaky greedy gas stations. Why they are so inaccurate they screwed themselves! This is similar to what I saw in the report for my county. Check yours, I suspect it is pretty standard that errors go both ways and gas stations prefer to err on the side of too much gas because they don't want to be the speedway or swifty station in this news report highlighted for being two stations that had the two worst performing pumps for the consumer, although the journalist was too lazy to inform us how the other pumps at these same stations worked, were other pumps at these stations giving away gas? Or was there a consistent short change going on? As someone who has been at that speedway before I want to know. 

 

Get your head out of your ass. You are accusing us of a "conspiracy" when what I am trying to tell you which you have been too dense to see is a "CLIMATE".

You're tunnel vision in not seeing other points of view. The climate of business is the rush for the buck, it's advocates, including you, care more about self and NOTHING about impact. The pumps are built to maximize profits and part of the "discrepancy" laws you spoke of, have nothing to do with legality, and everything to do with the climate of caring more about profit than impact.

Your mindset doesn't give one fuck about the impact it has on others. You live in a fucking utopia assuming your actions do not affect others and as long as you get what you want fuck everyone else.

Then you pathetically act like a child when others use the same media and appeal to the same government and vote just like you.

I'd suggest you get your head out of your ass and look around you and stop thinking solely about yourself. WE, IT IS A GOVERMENT OF WE, NOT YOU, NOT MONEY ONLY, WE. GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELF.

You stupidly think that we can keep on growing and keep on polluting and who gives a fuck if poverty grows. Who gives a fuck if we run out of resources. Who cares as long as YOU can become a billionaire, that's all that matters.

No, get it out of your fucking head that because you lose an election that the world is going to end or we want to rob you. You live in a bubble just like a theist , your dogmatism is no different. Life is a range and people are a range and I am tired of you thinking and acting like people with money should be the only ones with rights.

"Poor me" boo hoo, tell your corporate bully friends they should have thought about that before they crashed the car, housing and banking industries. But who cares, their profits are more important than women's health.

Here is your attitude, "If you cant afford health care, then die".

CLIMATE is why we have the problems we do. People like you thinking only money matters and only people with money should have rights. YOU AND your mindset do not own a monopoly on our government,

 

 

 

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Get your head

Brian37 wrote:

Get your head out of your ass. You are accusing us of a "conspiracy" when what I am trying to tell you which you have been too dense to see is a "CLIMATE".

You're tunnel vision in not seeing other points of view. The climate of business is the rush for the buck, it's advocates, including you, care more about self and NOTHING about impact. The pumps are built to maximize profits and part of the "discrepancy" laws you spoke of, have nothing to do with legality, and everything to do with the climate of caring more about profit than impact.

 

All the evidence points towards the current "climate" leaning towards a bias of providing the consumer with more gas than they pay for. Which is the exact opposite of what the OP suggested and you assumed to be correct. Unless you have some reason to believe that the sources I linked to are inaccurate or the government is somehow lying- which you know me, I'm not a fan of the government and prepared to believe the absolute worst about them, but there is no evidence in this case. The evidence available shows that gas pumps are mostly accurate and a majority of the time they are inaccurate they favor the consumer. I am more than willing to consider evidence to the contrary, but no one has been able to provide it yet. I think you are just upset because the evidence goes against your biases, but unless you have evidence to the contrary, your assumption that gas stations skim off the top by lying about how much gas is pumped is baseless.

 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Then you pathetically act like a child when others use the same media and appeal to the same government and vote just like you.

How am I acting like a child? I read a naked assertion, I declared my doubt about the assertion based on previous knowledge and admittedly in my first post I simply used anecdotal evidence. When doubt was expressed that I knew what I was talking about I provided evidence that the assertion was not only false but that the reality is almost exactly opposite. That is one smart kid.

 

You on the other hand voiced agreement with the naked assertion, declared it true and when presented evidence that it was false attacked me and my beliefs in general in a dramatic and ad hominem laden style while totally ignoring the substance of the thread and making no attempt to defend the initial assertion that I am arguing is false.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

I'd suggest you get your head out of your ass and look around you and stop thinking solely about yourself. WE, IT IS A GOVERMENT OF WE, NOT YOU, NOT MONEY ONLY, WE. GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELF.

You stupidly think that we can keep on growing and keep on polluting and who gives a fuck if poverty grows. Who gives a fuck if we run out of resources. Who cares as long as YOU can become a billionaire, that's all that matters.

No, get it out of your fucking head that because you lose an election that the world is going to end or we want to rob you. You live in a bubble just like a theist , your dogmatism is no different. Life is a range and people are a range and I am tired of you thinking and acting like people with money should be the only ones with rights.

"Poor me" boo hoo, tell your corporate bully friends they should have thought about that before they crashed the car, housing and banking industries. But who cares, their profits are more important than women's health.

Here is your attitude, "If you cant afford health care, then die".

CLIMATE is why we have the problems we do. People like you thinking only money matters and only people with money should have rights. YOU AND your mindset do not own a monopoly on our government,

And this has to do with whether or not you are being screwed at the pump how? The OP claimed we were being ripped off at the pump, I declared my skepticism and provided evidence that we are not being screwed at the pump. Any of my other political opinions are completely irrelevant to the topic. Whether or not consumers get the amount of gas they pay for at the pump is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of verifiable fact.

 

You will note that part of my evidence was reports from government inspectors- government inspectors who wouldn't exist in my utopia. If you really want to attack my political views in general you should turn it around on me and point out what a great job government inspectors are doing protecting us from being ripped off at the gas pump and we need more government inspectors in more areas because they do such a great job here. That attack would at least be a challenge for me to rebut. As it is you have done nothing to attack my views except hysterical hyperbole and misrepresenting them with straw men. Maybe someday I should do a 1/2 vs. 1/2 debate where I argue with myself over an issue and attempt to undermine my own beliefs.  

 

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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@ Beyond Saving

Considering I might be the only person in the world to have this information and other than me taking a video camera to prove that the pump will not allow you to stop precisely at the amount you want, I have no other proof for you other than "Go find out for yourself", which I bet you have already done by the time of this posting.

I also said it was a pump issue, but pre-paying inside the store. I know you can go give the $20 to the attendant but for billions of people who use the credit card at the pump, duh, they are not getting what they are paying for; which was my point.

Also, when you order a steak it is 6oz before cooking. This is a standard in all fast food joints or sit down fancy joints. All food is pre-weighed before cooking.

 

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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Considering I might be the only person in the world to have this information and other than me taking a video camera to prove that the pump will not allow you to stop precisely at the amount you want, I have no other proof for you other than "Go find out for yourself", which I bet you have already done by the time of this posting.

I also said it was a pump issue, but pre-paying inside the store. I know you can go give the $20 to the attendant but for billions of people who use the credit card at the pump, duh, they are not getting what they are paying for; which was my point.

But the evidence indicates that if I buy 5 gallons of gas most of the time I'm getting MORE than 5 gallons....... do you have evidence to the contrary?

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Also, when you order a steak it is 6oz before cooking. This is a standard in all fast food joints or sit down fancy joints. All food is pre-weighed before cooking.

Even so, there is a good chance that before cooking my steak is not 6oz. Human error combined with less than perfect machines and scales (scales in restaurants are legally allowed to be off by 0.04 pounds) conspire to deliver me a steak that is less or more than 6 oz. My only point is that anything involving measurements is less than perfect, and to expect absolute perfection every time is absurd. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

You talk about accuracy laws, who the fuck do you think paid off legislators to make the discrepancies legal? A few drops here, who cares? I do.

Then why the fuck are we paying a guy to go around and test them? If there is some great conspiracy we might as well save our tax money and only get screwed on one front.

 

I'm willing to bet that at some point eating at an establishment like yours and my sirloin was 5.97 ounces instead of the promised 6- was it because you were trying to screw me? Greedy bastard! There are discrepancies because human workers are fucking worthless and make mistakes. I agree, we should summarily execute any human who makes a product that isn't 100% perfect in every way, we have tons of excess labor in China and we have this imaginary overpopulation problem anyway. We can kill 3 birds with one stone. 

 

Ok, Beyond... we don't always see eye-to-eye on Business Rights(&copyEye-wink, but this last paragraph made me laugh-out-loud (again.) I'm stealing it, and reworking it into numerous contexts found about some of the places on the web that I visit. 

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Beyond Saving wrote:But the

Beyond Saving wrote:
But the evidence indicates that if I buy 5 gallons of gas most of the time I'm getting MORE than 5 gallons....... do you have evidence to the contrary?

 

Even so, there is a good chance that before cooking my steak is not 6oz. Human error combined with less than perfect machines and scales (scales in restaurants are legally allowed to be off by 0.04 pounds) conspire to deliver me a steak that is less or more than 6 oz. My only point is that anything involving measurements is less than perfect, and to expect absolute perfection every time is absurd. 

If you pump 5 gallons of gas I suspect that you are losing .03 cents every time.

Ever been to Ruth Chris House of Steaks? Read the menu. There is a disclaimer.

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digitalbeachbum wrote:If you

digitalbeachbum wrote:

If you pump 5 gallons of gas I suspect that you are losing .03 cents every time.

And do you have any evidence of that whatsoever? Or are you just randomly pulling a number out of your ass and I'm supposed to believe it even though the evidence I have seen is the opposite? 

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Ever been to Ruth Chris House of Steaks? Read the menu. There is a disclaimer.

Yes. So what? When it is weighed is irrelevant to how accurate the actual weight is. I'm saying that your 6 oz steak from Ruth Chris has a very good chance of having never been 6 oz at any point in its existence. Especially at a nicer place like Ruth Chris where they probably cut and trim the steaks on location. You have a couple of factors, humans are doing the cutting and guess what, humans aren't perfect. You have scales that are not absolutely perfect so the scale might tell the human the steak is exactly 6 oz when the steak is actually 5.99 oz. I have worn out scales to the point that they are noticeably inaccurate and I don't put them through near as much work as a busy restaurant. Machines wear out and become inaccurate. Then you have the "who gives a shit" factor. If the person cutting the steaks throws it on the scale and it is 6.01 oz I don't think they are wasting their time attempting to shave off 0.01 oz or throwing the whole steak away if it is 5.99 oz. It is absurd to expect absolute perfection.

 

It is difficult to find a report on the web of how accurate government inspectors find scales but I did find http://www.ksda.gov/weights_measures/about/ 

According to this site in Kansas only 82% of small scales were within acceptable standards. I have no idea if that is a common number but makes my point that scales aren't perfect and I'm not going to bother researching it anymore since you are apparently uninterested in reality. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:And do

Beyond Saving wrote:
And do you have any evidence of that whatsoever? Or are you just randomly pulling a number out of your ass and I'm supposed to believe it even though the evidence I have seen is the opposite?

Go test it yourself.

Beyond Saving wrote:

Yes. So what?

Huh. LMAO. You do know what a disclaimer is?

 

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OK... srsly... restaurant

OK... srsly... restaurant scales? Yes, they are a relevant comparison but still... this thread was much more entertaining and informative when it was one guy screaming about 'ZHE EVILLE BOURGEOUS!' of Big Oil.

(Doesn't OPEC play an important part in pump prices? Oh waitta sec... too much rationality required to discuss such things.)

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Beyond

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
And do you have any evidence of that whatsoever? Or are you just randomly pulling a number out of your ass and I'm supposed to believe it even though the evidence I have seen is the opposite?

Go test it yourself.

You are the one making a positive claim. I already provided evidence of other people doing the tests for me that casts serious doubt on your claim. I have no reason to suspect that inspectors around the country are all lying. So the burden of proof is on you to show that the inspectors are wrong or at the very least provide a reason to believe that that there is a reason to doubt the accuracy or honesty of the inspectors. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Kapkao wrote:OK... srsly...

Kapkao wrote:

OK... srsly... restaurant scales? Yes, they are a relevant comparison but still... this thread was much more entertaining and informative when it was one guy screaming about 'ZHE EVILLE BOURGEOUS!' of Big Oil.

(Doesn't OPEC play an important part in pump prices? Oh waitta sec... too much rationality required to discuss such things.)

 

Yeah, I'm sorry was trying to be rational. I thought I was arguing with someone who was rational and interested in what was true and what wasn't. Silly Beyond, reality isn't for the internet.

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Kapkao

Beyond Saving wrote:

Kapkao wrote:

OK... srsly... restaurant scales? Yes, they are a relevant comparison but still... this thread was much more entertaining and informative when it was one guy screaming about 'ZHE EVILLE BOURGEOUS!' of Big Oil.

(Doesn't OPEC play an important part in pump prices? Oh waitta sec... too much rationality required to discuss such things.)

 

Yeah, I'm sorry was trying to be rational. I thought I was arguing with someone who was rational and interested in what was true and what wasn't. Silly Beyond, reality isn't for the internet.

 

Beyond...

 

 

 

 

 

 

... I am disappointed in your lulz. Laughing out loud

But srsly... shouldn't we be drilling here at home to boost supply, if we're so worried about the damn prices?

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Beyond Saving wrote:You are

Beyond Saving wrote:
You are the one making a positive claim. I already provided evidence of other people doing the tests for me that casts serious doubt on your claim. I have no reason to suspect that inspectors around the country are all lying. So the burden of proof is on you to show that the inspectors are wrong or at the very least provide a reason to believe that that there is a reason to doubt the accuracy or honesty of the inspectors. 

 

Dude. What do you want? A video from me showing this? Fuck. I'll tell you what I'll do. Next time I'm not balls busting busy I'll make an attempt to video it from what ever gas station I happen to stop at; with the hope that the attendant doesn't see me using my phone at the pumps. Yeah. I know that the cell phone doesn't cause fires, but I've had a problem in the past with them shutting off the pump if they see a cell phone in use.

I can't believe you won't go out and try it yourself. What are you a quadriplegic or just fucking rich asshole who has is chauffeur to gas up the limo?

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Kapkao wrote:OK... srsly...

Kapkao wrote:

OK... srsly... restaurant scales? Yes, they are a relevant comparison but still... this thread was much more entertaining and informative when it was one guy screaming about 'ZHE EVILLE BOURGEOUS!' of Big Oil.

(Doesn't OPEC play an important part in pump prices? Oh waitta sec... too much rationality required to discuss such things.)

I thought this thread was more fun and simplistic, then Beyond started posting.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Kapkao wrote:But srsly...

Kapkao wrote:

But srsly... shouldn't we be drilling here at home to boost supply, if we're so worried about the damn prices?

 

NO!!!! Because somehow shipping oil halfway around the world is far more environmentally friendly than drilling here. Besides, wolves prefer their caribou oil free.

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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If you think a gas station

If you think a gas station pump is inaccurate you could report it.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Dude.

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Dude. What do you want? A video from me showing this?

Or any evidence. Some statistics. Every county in the country sends people out to check the accuracy of gas pumps, much of that information is available online. So far all the reports of those accuracy tests I have seen show you are far more likely to get more gas than you paid for than less. If your claim had any truth to it a google search should provide some plausible evidence. But lacking that, sure a video would be something.

 

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I can't believe you won't go out and try it yourself. What are you a quadriplegic or just fucking rich asshole who has is chauffeur to gas up the limo?

Why bother, we are paying people something like $50,000 a year to go around testing pumps every day. I have no rational reason to doubt the accuracy of their tests or their honesty. I'm quite confident that when I put 15 gallons in my car it is in fact really close to 15 gallons give or take 18 cubic centimeters. And the tests done by those hard working government goobs seem to indicate most of the time I get more. You are asking me to believe that gas stations are consistently screwing people by cutting a few pennies worth of gas consistently based solely on your feeling that less gas came out. Buy a prover, go out and test 100 gas pumps and you will find 90-95 of them are extremely accurate and of the rest, many will tend to give you a little extra.

 

Like this, a quick google search told me that 

In Wisconsin 97% of fuel pumps were accurate http://www.jsonline.com/news/29276359.html

In Kansas 96% of fuel pumps were accurate http://www.ksda.gov/includes/document_center/kansas_agriculture/Publications/GasStationComplaintFS.pdf

In Maryland 93% of fuel pumps are accurate, their standards are more strict allowing only -2.5 cubic inches per 5 gallons instead of 6 http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?storyid=117052

In Texas 94% are accurate http://www.texasagriculture.gov/vgn/tda/files/1848/40501_SmithCoClarification.pdf

In Iowa 94% are accurate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS_80RJqb00

In Utah 91% passed inspection, the other 9% includes all infractions not just accuracy.http://ag.utah.gov/news/gasolinepumpaccuracy2011.html

In Maryland 12% of stations had at least one pump that was short changing customers, 16% had pumps giving extra to customers. http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Keeping-Gas-Pumps-Honest-140666363.html

 

So should I doubt all of this information and trust your feeling instead? Trust in the force-

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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How to spot inaccurate

How to spot inaccurate pumps?

 

- Know the size of your gas tank. If your Honda Civic has a fuel capacity of 13.2 gallons and the pump reads that you have put 16 gallons of gas in, there’s definitely a problem.

- Always get a receipt and watch for discrepancies between the pump price and the printout.

- Keep track of your mileage and fuel costs. If you seem to get more miles per tank when you fill at one particular station over another, chances are there’s an inaccurate pump involved.

- When you are buying gas, look for the state or county inspection seal, which is usually a square yellow sticker near the nozzle of the pump. This will indicate which agency is responsible for regulating the accuracy of the pumps, as well as the most recent inspection date.

 

If you want to do the "poor man's" check, do this stuff.  Otherwise, it's nearly impossible to get out your own personal thingamajig and test if a friggin' pump is fucking you up the ass without lube.  I know gasoline will be with us for quite some time longer and I have no illusions to flying cars and electric cars dominating the populace at least for another twenty years, but consider how bad we had it during the 70s gas shortage?  The OAPEC placed that oil embargo on us and we got raped at the pump.  It didn't really stop until 1986 and we have been feeling the roller coaster effects of inflation ever since.  The bottom line is that ever since gasoline/oil have dominated public transportation, we've all been biting down and taking it up the ass whether it's because of a foreign war, some bullshit "shortage," an embargo, regulations, an EXXON oil spill or any combination thereof.  We all have to realize that no matter how "accruate" a pump is or whether or not we're actually getting what we pay for, in the long run, we're still getting screwed and that's all that should matter. 

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Yeah... economics is such a

Yeah... economics is such a bitch like that. Who are we to try to utilize scarce(r and scarcer) resources, etc...

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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I got an idea for

I got an idea for discussion: is there any particular reason I shouldn't piss and shit all over enviromentalism?

 

It just seems like such a sentimental/irrational topic, for some... including a Brisbane, AUS resident that posts on RRS.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)