Evangelical Movement Conservatism's a Driving Force Behind GOP's Extremism

Rich Woods
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Interesting and insightful.

Interesting and insightful.

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Another religious crazy

Quote:
“As a Christian I have a clear directive to support Israel, from my perspective its pretty easy both as an American and a Christian. I am going to stand with Israel.”

Rick Perry, advocate of a theocratic foreign policy

Looks like the only side in this not governed by religion is the Palestinians making them the sane party.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

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As Always

As always Rich, I agree with every word of it. I love reading your blogs when you post them.


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That was a great post, Rich!

That was a great post, Rich! I delayed reading it because I'm already in agreement, but the way you wrote it makes it accessible to a broader audience, and focuses on bringing awareness to this disturbing trend. Kudos!

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A_Nony_Mouse

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Quote:
“As a Christian I have a clear directive to support Israel, from my perspective its pretty easy both as an American and a Christian. I am going to stand with Israel.”

Rick Perry, advocate of a theocratic foreign policy

Looks like the only side in this not governed by religion is the Palestinians making them the sane party.

 

Look in the mirror dude. Rick Perry scares the shit out of me ESPECIALLY because of his biblical support of Israel which would cause Israel to be bigger dicks than they already are. His kin WANT to have the Jews drive them in the limo up to the velvet ropes in front of the club just to say, "Thanks for the ride, here's a tip(nation), but limo drivers aren't allowed into the club".

BELIEVE ME RICK PERRY SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF ME

But you are still stuck on the stupid crap "My shit don't stink"

Here is what our COUNTRY HAS even if Perry were elected, which Palestine would NOT set up if given a nation. Pluralism and the opportunity for dissent and change.

You are too blind to the fact that if Hammas got a country, those who do not tow the party/religious line, even those within Islam who do not go with the flow, their "voting" would be meaningless.

At least if Perry gets elected he cant be president forever. If Palestine gets a nation, you might have elections, but it would be mob rule and minorities and dissent WOULD NOT be protected.

NOW if you want to prove me wrong I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for the leaders of Hammas say, "Christians Jews and atheists are welcome in our democracy". 

Now don't pull the bullshit of quoting websites of groups who DO want to get along and try to claim that that is a majority opinion in Palestine. If it were AND I WISH IT WERE, Hammas would not have been elected to power.

HAMAS RUNS THAT COUNTRY AND WERE ELECTED TO POWER, BUT THEY ARE NOT SECULAR AND DO NOT VALUE PLURALISM.

You are a hypocrite and just as bad as Rick Perry. The only difference between you and him are the gangs you cheer for.

Perry wants a Christian theocratic democracy. You, because of emotions don't realize that you are supporting a Muslim theocracy. I don't want any part of either.

AND I DO WISH ISRAEL WOULD TAKE THAT FUCKING STAR OFF THEIR FLAG

 

 

 

 

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I think Israel has a right

I think Israel has a right to "nationality", but NOT a JEWISH state, ie a kind of Theocracy.

I also think they have NO right to a veto over Palestine's claim to be recognized as a nation-state.

Countries/societies with as bad or worse records have been so recognized.

I don't think keeping them out of the 'club' helps in any useful way to address the real issues with things that have been done, or still being done, by groups who are/were running, or closely associated with whoever was 'running', Palestinian regions at any given time.

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BobSpence1 wrote:I think

BobSpence1 wrote:

I think Israel has a right to "nationality", but NOT a JEWISH state, ie a kind of Theocracy.

I also think they have NO right to a veto over Palestine's claim to be recognized as a nation-state.

Countries/societies with as bad or worse records have been so recognized.

I don't think keeping them out of the 'club' helps in any useful way to address the real issues with things that have been done, or still being done, by groups who are/were running, or closely associated with whoever was 'running', Palestinian regions at any given time.

Wow, there is very little I disagree with you on, and I damned sure wish you were 20 years younger and a hot Hooters waitress, but since I am not gay, and especially since I have seen your face, you are in luck in the fact that you have nothing to worry about. ..............don't let this joke be a "squirrel".(another inside joke folks)

I AM NOT for a two state solution because the "state" that Palestine would set up would not be westernized. Iran has voting too, but voting does not constitute protection of dissent or minorities.

 

I KNOW that there ARE some, far too few, in Palestine that have woken up, but they are NOT in charge and the current powers that be would just set up a Muslim democracy, not a secular democracy, so that it would still allow for monopolies of power even with elections.

I thought it was funny when America demanded they had elections, AND DID, and ended up with the Muslim version of Jerry Falwell.

Our policy IS wrong because it supports a "Jewish state" and a "Muslim state" when what should happen is that they BOTH should employ a secular state with the SAME principles of separation of church and state and anti monopoly laws that insure that voting alone wont rule.

Currently I  am not for a two state solution because it has too much of a schoolyard mentality where the principle tells the children that the only way the playground can be used is that if the factions stay on opposite sides of the fence. It sounds nice, but in reality all it does is make a buffer to allow the ignorance of both sides to concoct ways to lop spit balls through the fence. It does nothing to humanize each other to the other.

 

 

 

 

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BobSpence1 wrote:I think

BobSpence1 wrote:

I think Israel has a right to "nationality", but NOT a JEWISH state, ie a kind of Theocracy.

Alright the eternal confusion continues for me.  What are you meaning when you say "jew"?  A follower of a religion or an ethnic person?

If a Jew stops believing in religion do they stop being a jew?

If an African-American converts to Judaism do they become a jew?

I know that the current Jewish state of Israel gives citizenship to people based on a person's bloodline.  Not their faith.

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The problem with their

The problem with their policy is that recent scientific studies on DNA shows ethnicity to be a figment of imagination. I can't recall exactly the study, but it was actually conducted in the middle east, and found that two jewish tribes were pretty well the same as they were different when compared to two arab tribes. In fact, if I remember correctly, each of the jewish tribes were more similar to the arab tribes than they were to each other.
I just spent a few minutes searching for the study and came up empty. So perhaps it was faulty, or maybe I'm just using the wrong parametres.

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Vastet wrote:The problem

Vastet wrote:
The problem with their policy is that recent scientific studies on DNA shows ethnicity to be a figment of imagination. I can't recall exactly the study, but it was actually conducted in the middle east, and found that two jewish tribes were pretty well the same as they were different when compared to two arab tribes. In fact, if I remember correctly, each of the jewish tribes were more similar to the arab tribes than they were to each other. I just spent a few minutes searching for the study and came up empty. So perhaps it was faulty, or maybe I'm just using the wrong parametres.

I read that study.  It stated that Palestinians and the Jews were very very close cousins compared to the rest of humanity.

Ethnic groups are often just in our minds anyway.  Things like this are important in how we view the world and how we react to one another.  Psychology often does not conform to facts like that.

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I thought we already had a

I thought we already had a thread for this stuff. How is this related to Rich's article?


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natural wrote:I thought we

natural wrote:

I thought we already had a thread for this stuff. How is this related to Rich's article?

Brian37 mentioned Rick Perry and his policy for Israel.

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Oh no! This thing is going

Oh no! This thing is going to infect every thread! Maybe we should have One Thread to Rule Them All!

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And in the Anony thread bind

And in the Anony thread bind them...


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You don't know the power of

You don't know the power of the dark side.

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Holy cross-theme

Holy cross-theme contamination, Batman!  Lord of the Rings, dude.

Let's keep it on the same page.

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Evil

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Brian37 wrote:
A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

Quote:
“As a Christian I have a clear directive to support Israel, from my perspective its pretty easy both as an American and a Christian. I am going to stand with Israel.”

Rick Perry, advocate of a theocratic foreign policy

Looks like the only side in this not governed by religion is the Palestinians making them the sane party.

Look in the mirror dude. Rick Perry scares the shit out of me ESPECIALLY because of his biblical support of Israel which would cause Israel to be bigger dicks than they already are. His kin WANT to have the Jews drive them in the limo up to the velvet ropes in front of the club just to say, "Thanks for the ride, here's a tip(nation), but limo drivers aren't allowed into the club".

BELIEVE ME RICK PERRY SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF ME

But you are still stuck on the stupid crap "My shit don't stink"

Here is what our COUNTRY HAS even if Perry were elected, which Palestine would NOT set up if given a nation. Pluralism and the opportunity for dissent and change.

You are too blind to the fact that if Hammas got a country, those who do not tow the party/religious line, even those within Islam who do not go with the flow, their "voting" would be meaningless.

At least if Perry gets elected he cant be president forever. If Palestine gets a nation, you might have elections, but it would be mob rule and minorities and dissent WOULD NOT be protected.

NOW if you want to prove me wrong I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for the leaders of Hammas say, "Christians Jews and atheists are welcome in our democracy". 

Now don't pull the bullshit of quoting websites of groups who DO want to get along and try to claim that that is a majority opinion in Palestine. If it were AND I WISH IT WERE, Hammas would not have been elected to power.

HAMAS RUNS THAT COUNTRY AND WERE ELECTED TO POWER, BUT THEY ARE NOT SECULAR AND DO NOT VALUE PLURALISM.

You are a hypocrite and just as bad as Rick Perry. The only difference between you and him are the gangs you cheer for.

Perry wants a Christian theocratic democracy. You, because of emotions don't realize that you are supporting a Muslim theocracy. I don't want any part of either.

AND I DO WISH ISRAEL WOULD TAKE THAT FUCKING STAR OFF THEIR FLAG

From so many exchanges I know it is too much to expect that you learn something about that subject or that you stop lying about the subject.

Hamas runs no country as everyone knows. Hamas politicians make NO religious fruitcake claims to the land as do the Jews who run Israel.

Pluralism is sort of a joke in Israel with all of its Jim Crow laws on the books and new ones in the pipeline. What is pluralism when Israel has the same laws regulating Christian behavior as does Saudi Arabia? Importing Christian bibles is a crime unless the recipients are named and are Christians. A few years ago the arrest of the Christian visitor at customs for having two bibles made the news.

Attempting to convert Jews (but not Muslims nor vice versa) is a crime. Does pluralism mean multi-culturalism? Israel has jewish culture only as a policy. As there is no jewish culture separate from religion they also exclude jewish Arab culture from public subsidy. Odd really in that back in the beginning they did their best to stamp out Yiddishe culture and language and succeeded.

With all of the facts you continue to defend a religiously motivated tyranny against their secular victims. Israel is everything you claim to be against. Palestine is everything you claim to be for. And your only basis for failing to support the secular side is to lie about them being motivated by religion.

Only the lie you know you are telling separates you from the conclusion that you (pretend?) to espouse.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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BobSpence1 wrote:
I think Israel has a right to "nationality", but NOT a

JEWISH state

, ie a kind of Theocracy.

I also think they have NO right to a veto over Palestine's claim to be recognized as a nation-state.

Countries/societies with as bad or worse records have been so recognized.

I don't think keeping them out of the 'club' helps in any useful way to address the real issues with things that have been done, or still being done, by groups who are/were running, or closely associated with whoever was 'running', Palestinian regions at any given time.

Refreshing. A rational post on the subject. Non-confrontational comments then.

Palestine is recognized as a sovereign state by over 100 countries. (Bosnia has only 80 or so at present.) Its announcement of same was in 1988. The Charter of the UN, section 4 I think it is, that only a state may apply for admission. Palestine applied. Its application was accepted. Not even the US or Israel objected. It is therefore recognized as a sovereign state by the UN and the US and Israel.

At present the PLO, which is not the government of the state of Palestine, has observer status as the representative of the Palestinian people. What happened last week was that the state of Palestine applied for membership. Worst comes to worst it will become an observer state separate from the PLO as an observer entity.

The issue is as always that once its status as a sovereign state goes from 100+ separate recognitions to UN recognition it can accede to every international treaty. This will gives its internal laws international recognition. IDF murders another Palestinian? Interpol arrest warrant. Stealing natural resources? More arrest warrants. Israel and Israelis refuse to pay their taxes? Sieze their assets in countries around the world.

Asset seizure is the easiest part. The basis is a violation of usual, reasonable and customary laws in every country like taxes. The only place recognized to challenge taxes is in the courts of the country which levies the taxes. Of course Israel and Israelis will not appear in Palestinian courts. Case closed. If Israel does appear in court, jurisdiction recognized. A different case closed.

Suits in other countries for asset seizure are pro forma. The validity of the tax cannot be challenged. In one case I remember the unused portion of a multi-year lease by a country's embassy was an asset which was seized and the embassy evicted. There is no sovereign immunity in any form applicable. Not quite true. You can't take the clothes off a diplomat's back but that is about it.

This is without getting into the innumerable war crimes under Geneva IV.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Brian37 wrote:
I AM NOT for a two state solution because the "state" that Palestine would set up would not be westernized. Iran has voting too, but voting does not constitute protection of dissent or minorities.


Why do you support war crimes against the Palestinians?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Watcher wrote:
BobSpence1 wrote:
I think Israel has a right to "nationality", but NOT a

JEWISH state

, ie a kind of Theocracy.

Alright the eternal confusion continues for me.  What are you meaning when you say "jew"?  A follower of a religion or an ethnic person?

There is no such thing as an ethnic Jew, period. I have the legal opinion of a jewish, Israeli judge in an Israeli court in support of that statement. Do you have anything but fantasy behind your non-question?

Quote:
If a Jew stops believing in religion do they stop being a jew?

Like Islam, Judaism is not a creedal religion. Belief is irrelevant. It is only a ritual/taboo life that makes one a Jew.

This means you.

Quote:
If an African-American converts to Judaism do they become a jew?

If an eskimo converts to Judaism can be become one of the frozen people? Can he change is name to Iceberg?

The correct answer is, if he leads a jewish life as defined by the rituals and taboos of Judaism as found in the Torah. The conversion process is teaching those rituals and taboos with close monitoring they are in fact being observed.

Quote:
I know that the current Jewish state of Israel gives citizenship to people based on a person's bloodline.  Not their faith.

It gives citizenship based upon the Nazi definition of Jew not the Torah definition. Israel clearly agrees with the Nazis as to who is a Jew. Only about 1/10th of its Russian immigrants qualified as Jews under the Torah.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Vastet wrote:
The problem with their policy is that recent scientific studies on DNA shows ethnicity to be a figment of imagination. I can't recall exactly the study, but it was actually conducted in the middle east, and found that two jewish tribes were pretty well the same as they were different when compared to two arab tribes. In fact, if I remember correctly, each of the jewish tribes were more similar to the arab tribes than they were to each other. I just spent a few minutes searching for the study and came up empty. So perhaps it was faulty, or maybe I'm just using the wrong parametres.

You cannot have remembered that as there is no division called "tribe" in DNA studies.

However they do confirm that Palestinians are people whose jewish ancestors converted to Islam as has been known for only a thousand years without benefit of DNA.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

As far as the genetic diversity, the two groups did not start self identifying as distinct until abour 2,200 years ago. That is hardly a compelling time frame. While I have not seen a specific study, I tend to think that there was not much to find.

 

One gene that I know has been well tracked is the sickle cell gene. If you only get it from one parent, you get resistance to malaria. If you get it from both parents, you get to live with random bouts of agonizing pain, among other things. So it is really only useful near the equator and in wet environments. Elsewhere, it tends to be far less common.

 

From what I have heard, there are a handful of people in Iceland who have the double whammy but they tend not to have kids. I have also heard that it is reemerging in south America as they too have malaria, so there it again is useful.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

As far as the genetic diversity, the two groups did not start self identifying as distinct until abour 2,200 years ago. That is hardly a compelling time frame. While I have not seen a specific study, I tend to think that there was not much to find.


According to Josephus there was never a distinction. It was all a matter of military conquest forcing the Judean rituals and taboos upon the Iodumaeans, Samarians and Galileans. And that came about as a consequence of rapidly changing alliances with the Egyptian and Eastern Greek empires.

In other words the Yahweh cult was an invention of the Maccabes and never voluntarily existed outside of the city-state of Jerusalem. Of course if your opinion is that a priest of the Yahweh cult had no idea what he was writing about then there is no other source whatsoever upon which to base an opinion of the cult's geographic extent.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml