help me understand

1 Timothy 1 13 17
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help me understand

please help me to understand how any atheists, none in particular, can ask the question: what is the meaning of life? why be moral? why be happy? why even bother? 1000 years from now me, you, obama- no one will even know we existed. all accomplishments are beaten, all things break, all returns to the earth. if God isn't there, than everything is just the roll of a trillion sided die. why are we here? if there is no God then there is just chaos. if there is no God and the universe was not made for us, what can i do that in the great scheme of it all means a thing? we try to say everyone matters, save the dolphins and the ozone. Without God there is no judgment no punishment for the wicked, no justice for the meak. some bad go through life unscathed, some good dont even make it. without a god there is no consequence. i can kill, steal, live a life of lust and dont tell me i will go to jail- for in this godless world you are either alpha or dead. God gives all that is good. Don't blame Him for your troubles. we are the product of our choices. anyone born with some thing wrong in mans eyes was built perfect for his purpose in Gods. the only salvation is through the Son. Not all who call them selves christians are really what they say. just going to church means jack- its called living for Christ not sundays for Christ. and for those who argue their struggle, its called "baring your cross". Christ said you will be attacked for your faith. im not trying to hurt any one and if i step on some toes, im doing what im supposed to do- making a difference.


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Timothy

 

 

 

                We do make a difference here, we must be; I look at all the theists who show up here and try; yet again, to come up with the "one" statement that would turn all us 'godless' types into praying mantassies.  It hasn't worked yet  but all are welcome here.  We never feel welcome on theists sites.

 

 

                btw your jesus charactor was a fictional conglomeration of several preachers and other fictional godly legons.  Paul of Tarsus had an epileptic fit, and when he woke up he seems to have invented your christianity. Now reguardless of what you believe, do you have any real evidence that there was ONE and only one Joshua Bar Joseph. Most of you christianity comes from Lord Mithras of the Zorastrian religion.

 

 

              

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VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

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1 Timothy 1 13 17

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

please help me to understand how any atheists, none in particular, can ask the question:

what is the meaning of life?

There is none. This is probably the hardest thing for theists to accept and probably one of the main reasons some people teeter on the edge (they will reject their old god but aren't willing to say there is no god)

why be moral? 

Because we need to live and work together in this world. No doubt my concept of morality is different from yours. I won't kill or steal from you if you won't kill or steal from me. Without that agreement civilization with its comforts becomes a challenge. Now if you want to do something I find unappealing like hard drugs or gay sex well I don't consider that immoral, it just isn't something I care to participate in the same way I don't participate in basket weaving. 

why be happy?

Why not? Your here today, you might be gone tomorrow. Being happy is more fun then being depressed.

 

why even bother?

Living is fun. 

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:
 Without God there is no judgment no punishment for the wicked, no justice for the meak. some bad go through life unscathed, some good dont even make it. without a god there is no consequence. i can kill, steal, live a life of lust and dont tell me i will go to jail- for in this godless world you are either alpha or dead.

Are we talking Christian here? Because the only evil the Christian god won't forgive is not believing in him which I find repugnant. Judgement and punishment are found here on earth. You could kill and steal but if you live that life there is a good chance of getting killed yourself. Since there is no afterlife and nothing after this life I would recommend keeping it. Alpha or dead? Maybe in an anarchy. In civilized societies we try to prevent that kind of environment. 

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:
God gives all that is good. Don't blame Him for your troubles. we are the product of our choices. anyone born with some thing wrong in mans eyes was built perfect for his purpose in Gods. the only salvation is through the Son. Not all who call them selves christians are really what they say. just going to church means jack- its called living for Christ not sundays for Christ. and for those who argue their struggle, its called "baring your cross". Christ said you will be attacked for your faith. im not trying to hurt any one and if i step on some toes, im doing what im supposed to do- making a difference.

I don't blame him because he doesn't exist. My struggles are my fault and my fault alone. I can usually point to exactly what I did that caused me problems. Don't worry about stepping on toes, we are all tough and will probably step on your toes. Atheists tend to be brutally honest about their beliefs and opinions of your. If you are serious about your questions you will find serious answers. 

Now to step on your toes, how can you believe in a god that will forgive every sin except not believing in him? Isn't vanity a flaw? How can a powerful being be so insecure? What evidence do you have that your god exists? Why your god and not another one? 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Okay Timmy, I will see if I

Okay Timmy, I will see if I can answer some of your questions.  Remember that my answers are just that.  Mine.  They are probably not the ones you get from anyone else.  Please do us a favor in the future.  Avoid the wall of text.  It is hard to read and the reason for you posting here is that you want us to read what you have to say.

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

please help me to understand how any atheists, none in particular, can ask the question: what is the meaning of life? why be moral? why be happy? why even bother?

Morality comes from within.  Dogs, wolves, ravens, monkeys and even tiny human infants understand at least rudimentory ethics.  No god needed.  We live moral lives because that is the easiest way to get through out lives in a complex culture like ours.  It is easier and we are happier to behave morally, be happu and give a damn.  That is all.  I went through a time in my life where I lived with depression.  Trust me, you want to skip it if you can.  Living a pointless, unhappy, angry life is a major pain in the butt.

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:
1000 years from now me, you, obama- no one will even know we existed. all accomplishments are beaten, all things break, all returns to the earth. if God isn't there, than everything is just the roll of a trillion sided die. why are we here? if there is no God then there is just chaos. if there is no God and the universe was not made for us, what can i do that in the great scheme of it all means a thing? we try to say everyone matters, save the dolphins and the ozone. Without God there is no judgment no punishment for the wicked, no justice for the meak.

You are absolutely right.  So what.  Every thing you just said is the same whether you believe in god or not.  And none of it makes the slightest bit of difference.  I am afraid that if the meek want justice, they are going to have to get off their butts, organize and go get it.  Religion teaches the meek to stay meek and wait for god to wipe their bottoms and send them off to heaven when they die.  Well bugger that for a game of soldiers.  All that does is get them dead and condemn their children to a life of continued misery.

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:
some bad go through life unscathed, some good dont even make it. without a god there is no consequence. i can kill, steal, live a life of lust and dont tell me i will go to jail- for in this godless world you are either alpha or dead.

Maybe you think you can, but I can tell you, the people who do not live a life that they perceive as ethical and moral are either very unhappy or mentally ill.  I certainly do not want to live in a society that is all "big guy wins all," you don't want to live in that world and we don't want to leave that world for our children.  So we behave ourselves (mostly) and teach our children likewise.  Mostly it works.

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:
God gives all that is good. Don't blame Him for your troubles. we are the product of our choices. anyone born with some thing wrong in mans eyes was built perfect for his purpose in Gods. the only salvation is through the Son. Not all who call them selves christians are really what they say. just going to church means jack- its called living for Christ not sundays for Christ. and for those who argue their struggle, its called "baring your cross". Christ said you will be attacked for your faith. im not trying to hurt any one and if i step on some toes, im doing what im supposed to do- making a difference.

I don't blame god(s) for my troubles.  I do not believe in god.  God(s) does not exist for me. 

We are the product of our environment, genes, our own behaviors and luck.  Some is good, some is bad - that is all.  I am not going to be saved not because I do not believe in god, but because there is no salvation.   For anyone.  Period. 

You have not offended me, but you wasting your time.  Not just here on this list.  If you want to make a difference - go out and live as if this is the only life you have and try to make this world a heaven for everyone.  If you are right and there is a salvation and heaven after death, you will be a shoe in.  If you are not, at least you had a taste of it in the only life you can be sure of.


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Well, we have all answered

Well, we have all answered these questions a hundred times before, but I will try to do a short synopsis of my views.

 

1. What is god/s/dess purpose and plan for you?  Do you know it?  Really, do you know?  Unless s/he/it/they are texting you every day, you probably don't know the details.  You are living in chaos just like me.  How do we deal with it?  We get up, take a shower, get dressed, get some breakfast and get on with our day - one foot in front of the other.

2. Our purpose in life is what we wish it to be.  You wish to spread the word of god/s/dess.  Great for you.  It isn't my purpose.  I want to leave my little corner of the world in a little better shape than when I got here.  That's enough for me.

3. The meaning of life - have grandchildren.  That's all.  If you chose not to, that is fine as well.  But the entire meaning is to perpetuate the species and that is done by raising your children to be able to raise children.

4. Why be moral?  Because it is the right thing to do.  I don't need god/s/dess to tell me that running up and down the street shooting my neighbors is a bad thing.  We have to live with each other.  No choices.  Live on a mountain top if you want, you still have to drive down to the nearest town replenish things you can't make for yourself.  You still have to be nice to the people who live there.  We rely on each other and so it makes sense to make an attempt to be nice to each other.

5. Why be happy?  I have three grown sons able to take care of themselves and their families - all moral and caring people.  I have a precocious smart alecky grandson who makes me laugh.  I have a dog who adores me.  I live in the most beautiful place I have ever seen.  I love the local waterfalls and forested hills, the short drive to some spectacular beaches.  I have a husband who has loved me and only me for over 25 years.  What's not to be happy about?

6. God or no god/s/dess, 1000 years from now no one will know who you were.  Or who I was.  Or give a rat's ass about either of us.  Not even our great, great, great, grand descendants will know or care.  Sheeze, do you know who your 1000 years ago ancestors were?  I don't think Ancestry.com goes back that far.  Shoot, they couldn't find one of my great-grandfathers and I have a census record for him.  And for any "works" of ours?  There will be archeologists digging them up and wondering why the hell we cared about that crap.  Or there won't be because the human race will have managed to drive itself extinct or the rapture happened and we are all sorted into heaven or hell.  So what?  Why worry about it?  Neither of us will know or care since we won't be alive.

7. Living a life of lust - sounds good to me.  Though you will have to scale down your expectations.  I haven't lusted after anyone but my husband since I met him all those years ago. 

8. Last year, around November, in North Carolina a mother sold her 5 year old daughter to a man who then raped, tortured and murdered the little girl.  I can hunt up the news articles if you want.  Maybe god/s/dess has a plan, maybe that little girl is now in heaven.  But why did his/her/its plan have to include torturing that baby?  If s/he/it/they wanted her so badly, why couldn't they have just given her a brain aneurysm and she could have died quickly and a lot less fearfully and painfully.  There is no punishment - not even the meanest nastiest version of hell you can think up - that will compensate for that child's torture.  There is no justice in this world or the next.  Guard yourself and your family, teach your children self defense, make sure your spouse knows self defense.  And then keep away from where the nutcases hang out.  Only advice I can give you because it is painfully obvious god/s/dess doesn't give a rat's ass about any of us.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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Okay "Timothy" This is going

Okay "Timothy" This is going to hurt a little but here goes:

" if there is no God then there is just chaos"

"Without God there is no judgment no punishment for the wicked, no justice for the meak. some bad go through life unscathed, some good dont even make it. without a god there is no consequence. i can kill, steal, live a life of lust and dont tell me i will go to jail- for in this godless world you are either alpha or dead"

My only problem with abolishing all existence of church is this. Unleashing all of the sick and twisted minds that sit in church on Sunday. Your right without your imaginary friend MOST christian would become murders and thieves. This is why we urge you to stay in church, you need that stability. We don't...

" God gives all that is good. Don't blame Him for your troubles"

So he gets the credit for the good things and takes no consequence for the bad? That's kinda shitty don't you think?

Now for the part that's going to hurt.........

"anyone born with some thing wrong in mans eyes was built perfect for his purpose in Gods"

My son is one of those children born with birth abnormality's. I can tell you now that if there is a god that's why you met me on this site not face to face!!!! I'm so sick of you religious nut jobs and you "gods will" bullshit. I said on here just today that my son will never be raised with religion. I will shield him from it for as long as possible. Then I will explain it too him as a parent might explain Manson, or Ted Kasenski. That is as you are, nut jobs with imaginary gods telling them shit like that. He will be raised to know that he was born with this condition due to some strange genetic phenomenon. Nothing more, however I dread the day he comes home crying asking why did god do this to me? This will be the day that he realizes that he has nothing wrong with him, it's the fucked up Christians that really have the problem. See the medical community has examined the affects of prayer and found that there is no more success rate for those that pray and those that don't. My son will require surgeries till he is around 18 he is 6 now. Until he is 18 STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM HIM!!!! That goes for All of the bible thumping sickos.

 

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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thankyou

thank you for your welcome veiw.  So far i havent got that.  Im here not so much to challange but to learn.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

please help me to understand how any atheists, none in particular, can ask the question: what is the meaning of life? why be moral? why be happy? why even bother? 1000 years from now me, you, obama- no one will even know we existed. all accomplishments are beaten, all things break, all returns to the earth. if God isn't there, than everything is just the roll of a trillion sided die. why are we here? if there is no God then there is just chaos. if there is no God and the universe was not made for us, what can i do that in the great scheme of it all means a thing? we try to say everyone matters, save the dolphins and the ozone. Without God there is no judgment no punishment for the wicked, no justice for the meak. some bad go through life unscathed, some good dont even make it. without a god there is no consequence. i can kill, steal, live a life of lust and dont tell me i will go to jail- for in this godless world you are either alpha or dead. God gives all that is good. Don't blame Him for your troubles. we are the product of our choices. anyone born with some thing wrong in mans eyes was built perfect for his purpose in Gods. the only salvation is through the Son. Not all who call them selves christians are really what they say. just going to church means jack- its called living for Christ not sundays for Christ. and for those who argue their struggle, its called "baring your cross". Christ said you will be attacked for your faith. im not trying to hurt any one and if i step on some toes, im doing what im supposed to do- making a difference.

I'm not going to bother with all of these because they are merely an emotional reaction on your part because you are bewildered that someone does not buy your god claim.

Quote:
if God isn't there, than everything is just the roll of a trillion sided die.

The natural processes in our universe, are predictable, not in the sense that we can calculate where every atom is at any given time,  but in the sense that we know things like which atoms bond with other atoms and how they interact when they come in contact with each other.

But as far as biological life and evolution on our planet, yea, it was sheer friggen luck, and that luck WILL run out for humans and all life on this planet. Even if another meteor never hit this planet, we know the sun will expand and fry it and kill all life on it. There are constant threats to our species survival beyond our own fighting each other and something will eventually kill our species. I simply don't assign our extinction to a comic book fight between Superman vs Lex Luthor. We will either do it to ourselves, or climate change, or disease, or a meteor, or a comet or a gamma ray or the sun expanding.

Quote:
Without God there is no judgment no punishment for the wicked, no justice for the meak. some bad go through life unscathed, some good dont even make it. without a god there is no consequence. i can kill, steal, live a life of lust and dont tell me i will go to jail- for in this godless world you are either alpha or dead.

Yes there is judgment, which is why humans have police and courts and jails and juries.

Quote:
some bad go through life unscathed, some good dont even make it.

And that was the case before Christianity, and it will be the case if humans give up on Christianity. Just as bad things happen despite that Muslims believe in Allah. Just like bad things happen despite that Jews believe in Yahweh.

Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, and? Yea, that is reality. But good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people too. The glass can be half empty or half full depending how you chose to look at it.

Quote:
without a god there is no consequence.

Yes there is. If you or I rob our neighbor or kill our neighbor someone will react negatively to that act and call the police. The police will hunt us down, have us arrested and put on trial to be judged by a jury. Our laws are what we have in common, not what god you believe in or what god/s I don't believe in.

But if it takes you believing in a god not to do harm to me, please, by all means keep that belief. But it is laughable to me for you to assume I want to harm you or could harm you merely because I don't buy your god claim.

Which is more moral to you. Doing something because you want to win brownie points or fear being spanked? Or do you do think it is moral to do the right thing even if no one notices?

God belief has nothing to do with the reality of how a human will react to the actions of another human. I don't want to be murdered, I am sure you don't, so OUR species has evolved to react negatively to murder. But because of arbitrary books of myth, including yours, killing those outside one's gang is ok, in that case it is not called murder but WAR. The quickest way to get humans to needlessly fight each other is to make a meaningless label more important than the human themselves. I am an atheist, but most importantly I am a human first. My atheism doesn't make me good or bad anymore than your Christianity makes you good or bad. OUR ACTIONS DO.

Quote:
Don't blame Him for your troubles.

I don't blame him anymore than I blame Mickey mouse. But if we were to pretend Mickey Mouse was real for argument's sake, and he ran a red light and t-boned my family and killed them, why shouldn't I blame him?

Quote:
im not trying to hurt any one and if i step on some toes, im doing what im supposed to do- making a difference.

You are not stepping on my toes. I have heard this all before, nothing new. I do think YOU hurt yourself by getting emotional and set yourself up for disappointment when others don't believe you. I know lots of people don't buy my position. So? That is life. There are 6 billion people on this planet and we wont always like each other or say nice things about each other. That's life.

All I can do is try to present my position, debate my position and even ridicule what I find absurd. What neither you or I should do to our fellow human is physically harm them when we hear things we don't like.

So why do I as an atheist live on knowing life in the grand scale has no meaning? For the same reason you go to a sporting event or a movie. Neither of those things last forever. Most movies and sporting events last 2 to 3 hours. You go, not because you expect it to last forever, you go to have enjoyment.

Right now, at this point in my life, there is enough enjoyment, even though I have every day problems and stress and sadness like everyone else.

Meaning in life is what you give it now. If you want to be fatalistic about humanity because others don't believe what you do, you can. I wont have you arrested or murderd. But for your own mental health don't fool yourself that your meaning has to be mine and we have do be clones of each other.

The best thing you can do here on this website with us, is to skip the emotional reaction and make your case with the evidence you think will convince us. If all you are going to do is shout "HOW CAN YOU NOT BELIEVE" you are only torturing yourself. You are not a martyr, there is no such thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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forgiveness

This is a subject most so called followers of Christ muck up, and so did I untill resently.  When the gosple says we are washed clean by the blood of the lamb, we are clensed of sin, for we are all sinners and unworthy of god, who is all good.  So if you look at things from a cosmic veiw point in refrence of one sin against another, they weigh about the same, but because god can only be good no sin can be present.  Those who continue their evil ways even those who ask for forgivness have not embraced jesus cause if they had would no longer feel the need to sin.  Because of Christs message we are no longer slaves to sin and can live our lives by Christs strength and relinquish your own.  When i sin i fail to live for Christ and are not forgiven, but only when i ask for strength borowed from his will am i saved.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

thank you for your welcome veiw.  So far i havent got that.  Im here not so much to challange but to learn.

Well lets see if I can put this in some form you might understand:

Walk into a church in an mostly black community, opon walking in side repeatedlly scream the racial slang term NI_ _ER. Tell me how this works out for you.

Or if the shoe fits on the other foot then do the same in a all white church.

Now I know what your looking for: Welcome to the forum we all hope that you will stay awhile and be the villiage idiot...

If your not here for a challenge then just read the post.....

You are not going to alter our opions with this type of babble. BRING your proof and then we will be all ears!

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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ok

 I missed your post on your son.  Im sorry you felt threatened.  You may see me on the streets one day teaching the word go about your way and i will not persue i hope the best for your family.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:This

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

This is a subject most so called followers of Christ muck up, and so did I untill resently.  When the gosple says we are washed clean by the blood of the lamb, we are clensed of sin, for we are all sinners and unworthy of god, who is all good.  So if you look at things from a cosmic veiw point in refrence of one sin against another, they weigh about the same, but because god can only be good no sin can be present.  Those who continue their evil ways even those who ask for forgivness have not embraced jesus cause if they had would no longer feel the need to sin.  Because of Christs message we are no longer slaves to sin and can live our lives by Christs strength and relinquish your own.  When i sin i fail to live for Christ and are not forgiven, but only when i ask for strength borowed from his will am i saved.

 

Most followers of Christ muck it up because they do like apparently you have done.  You haven't forgiven yourself.  Jesus has nothing to do with it.  YOU have to forgive yourself as well.  You were stupid, you made an attempt to do something about that, and you are working on turning around your life.  Forgive yourself.

I haven't sinned in donkey's years.  Not by my standards, not by christianity's standards either.  In fact, I think the big 10 C leaves a lot out and many christians have lousy morals.  Unless you are JC, you aren't perfect.  Get over it.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote: I

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

 I missed your post on your son.  Im sorry you felt threatened.  You may see me on the streets one day teaching the word go about your way and i will not persue i hope the best for your family.

 

Oh, geeze, I hate street preachers.  Especially the ones that yell at me that I am a sinner, that I am a whore.  Tell me you don't yell.  Yellers win zero converts and are there for others to laugh at.  I don't laugh, I have to restrain myself from hitting the SOB with my backpack.  Are you living and preaching in the Pacific NW?

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:This

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

This is a subject most so called followers of Christ muck up, and so did I untill resently.  When the gosple says we are washed clean by the blood of the lamb, we are clensed of sin, for we are all sinners and unworthy of god, who is all good.  So if you look at things from a cosmic veiw point in refrence of one sin against another, they weigh about the same, but because god can only be good no sin can be present.  Those who continue their evil ways even those who ask for forgivness have not embraced jesus cause if they had would no longer feel the need to sin.  Because of Christs message we are no longer slaves to sin and can live our lives by Christs strength and relinquish your own.  When i sin i fail to live for Christ and are not forgiven, but only when i ask for strength borowed from his will am i saved.

Are you here to debate or preach? If you are here to preach, you are wasting your time. If you have a case for the god you claim, proceed. But I warn you, preaching doesn't last on this board.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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humble pie

forgiving my self never came to mind, i know what i am im human, i know ive done things im not proud of.  im not afraid of what ive done ive moved on.   its humility i seek thats why i focus on my faults.  im pro choice by the way god made us to choose our path and who am i to argue.  im not here because im obligated im here because i care.  allso i know my experience is diferent but for some i can relate my message is for that group.


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preaching

when i mentioned preaching i ment to those who listen im not a yeller.  im going to school to preach in church you all seem to listen and sorry if it comes off preachy but im really trying to learn atheist view.  i dont preach on streets.  i wont preach, all my posts will just be questions.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

forgiving my self never came to mind, i know what i am im human, i know ive done things im not proud of.  im not afraid of what ive done ive moved on.   its humility i seek thats why i focus on my faults.  im pro choice by the way god made us to choose our path and who am i to argue.  im not here because im obligated im here because i care.  allso i know my experience is diferent but for some i can relate my message is for that group.

You are not here because you are obligated? Funny, but your original post would seem to defy that.

Quote:
im doing what im supposed to do-

Sounds like you feel obligated.

When my mom needs a ride to the doctor, by law I don't have to give her a ride, but I do feel obligated.

You do believe the god you claim is telling you to save us, otherwise you wouldn't have said

Quote:
I am doing what I am supposed to do

 

You believe in your god because "it feels right"In that sense you care., not because you can prove the existence of your alleged god.  But you don't care to have your claims challenged, otherwise you would debate, not preach.

We are not interested in your "charity", we are only interested in facts. "Faith" only depends on marketing, not facts.

 

 

 

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1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:when

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

when i mentioned preaching i ment to those who listen im not a yeller.  im going to school to preach in church you all seem to listen and sorry if it comes off preachy but im really trying to learn atheist view.  i dont preach on streets.  i wont preach, all my posts will just be questions.

Quote:
   i wont preach, all my posts will just be questions.

Right, that way you can preach without sounding preachy.

No, the way it works here is not about asking nothing but questions. The way it works here is you make a claim, we respond to that claim, you make another claim, we respond to that claim. Sometimes those interactions involve questions on both sides, but they are not all questions.

We are not pupils for you to teach. Nor are we lost dogs for you to save from the pound. This is a place, primarily for atheists to converse. It does welcome believers, but it is not for them to say "hey, look at me, I am a good person, I am trying to help you".

We have never met you, we are not judging you. We are going to merely read the words you type and assess the credibility of the claims you make and tell you what we think of those claims. That is the way it works here.

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supposed to

so your telling me you cant enjoy serving someone.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:so

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

so your telling me you cant enjoy serving someone.

Sure, sure I can enjoy serving someone. But only  through consent, not threat of punishment or through emotional blackmail of trying to shame me into it.

The god character as written in the Abrhamic religions isn't asking for your consent, he demands your obedience. If you don't follow him, horrible things will happen to you. That is hardly consent and hardly a healthy relationship.

 

 

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 Ok that's not the

 Ok that's not the questions you should be asking. We are athiest. Dude, listen, talk with some of the other christians on this forum before you post anything else. Obviously someone told you about this forum and they should have warned you not to come here and try to council a bunch of athiests on god. I haven't been on this forum long at all but I can tell you this-if you are studying us or whatever you may want to chill with your urge to push the bible in here. It will absolutely get you no where.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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jesus

jesus inherted the fathers power so through him is taught forgiveness the rule books adapted and we can now have a relationship with god so he can love us openly because without sin we can aproach him.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

jesus inherted the fathers power so through him is taught forgiveness the rule books adapted and we can now have a relationship with god so he can love us openly because without sin we can aproach him.

 

My husband loves me openly, my sons love me openly, my grandson loves me openly, even - or maybe especially - my dog loves me openly.  What I don't need is yet someone else loving me so openly they want me to serve them dinner, too.  Thanks, but no thanks.

To clarify, that was a joke.  Not all of those people live with me and expect dinner.

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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Welcome to the forum.1

Welcome to the forum.

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:
please help me to understand how any atheists, none in particular, can ask the question: what is the meaning of life?

Define meaning. Define life.

Quote:
why be moral? why be happy? why even bother?

Because I want to.

Quote:
1000 years from now me, you, obama- no one will even know we existed. all accomplishments are beaten, all things break, all returns to the earth. if God isn't there, than everything is just the roll of a trillion sided die. why are we here? if there is no God then there is just chaos. if there is no God and the universe was not made for us, what can i do that in the great scheme of it all means a thing? we try to say everyone matters, save the dolphins and the ozone. Without God there is no judgment no punishment for the wicked, no justice for the meak. some bad go through life unscathed, some good dont even make it. without a god there is no consequence. i can kill, steal, live a life of lust and dont tell me i will go to jail- for in this godless world you are either alpha or dead. God gives all that is good. Don't blame Him for your troubles. we are the product of our choices. anyone born with some thing wrong in mans eyes was built perfect for his purpose in Gods. the only salvation is through the Son. Not all who call them selves christians are really what they say. just going to church means jack- its called living for Christ not sundays for Christ. and for those who argue their struggle, its called "baring your cross". Christ said you will be attacked for your faith. im not trying to hurt any one and if i step on some toes, im doing what im supposed to do- making a difference.

Aside from the God or chaos false dichotomy, pretty much all of these statements are correct, but they are also all appeals to consequences. Sorry dude, reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, still exists. It is not what you want to believe.   

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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If meaning of life does not

If meaning of life does not exist, it is our need and necessity to create it, or even better, create a branch of science researching the best applications of meaning of life. Many things like brotherhood, justice, technology or entertainment are completely artificial, but not less real or useful because of that. Just because meaning of life is not clear (to atheists) since the dawn of ages, doesn't mean it can't be created. Even if it doesn't exist, there is an empty space for it, a social niche for those who want the meaning of life.

There are two basics of this future science as I dare to call it. The need for self-realization, for finding and achieving one's highest potential. The second is the need for harmonious living with our environment - other people and nature.

Currently there is a primitive system, which will be eventually perfected into new form. It is the job education, shaping oneself for the needs of market. But as natural resources will become used more sanely (less) the market will mostly leave us in peace and it won't be so necessary to slave for colored papers all the time. The development will be refocused for perfection of self and society, not obtaining colored papers.

Rational people accept only testable things. If there is God behind human consciousness, it's as good as missing. It can hardly become visible, when people have to work all the time. Neither organized religion helps it. Hell and heaven are pagan concepts used to scare people. Education and daily or weekly activities must become organized in such a way that will unlock this hidden and disbelieved potential in people. There are certain meditations, exercises, books to study, therapies, activities (like charity work) and contemplations that will have to be carefully chosen and practised. This will lead to perfection of character and eventually to direct experiences of the divine and of personal purpose.
For example, there are techniques that make a person understand more clearly what he is. It almost magically reveals one's own flaws and prejudices. Without even talking about them. It's quite unpleasant but needed, I have to say. And it's something still very diffcult to obtain.

Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.


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1 Timothy 1 13 17

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

jesus inherted the fathers power so through him is taught forgiveness the rule books adapted and we can now have a relationship with god so he can love us openly because without sin we can aproach him.

What a steamy pile.

Here is the plot of the bible in three parts.

Part 1. Be a good Hebrew and no one gets hurt.

Part 2. Thats not working. Ok, I will split myself and kill myself as a sacrifice  to myself so that people will kiss up to me.

Part 3. Thats not working, I'll go back to violence and allow my toys to have a final glorious genocidal bloody battle to glorify my existence because I am the only important thing in the universe.

This is not only a fictional story, but a scary one. It doesn't reflect a real being. It reflects human selfishness.

Your god character acts like a baby throwing a fit when  it doesn't get what it wants, which is funny since it has the power to do what it wants.

If a complete stranger walked up into your driveway and pointed a gun to their own head and said, "I love you, look what I am doing for you". I would hope you would think the person is nuts.

The concept of Jesus is nothing more than a monotheistic version of "scapegoating" of the former polytheistic "sacrafice". Polytheists would kill an animal placing their "mistakes on it" offering their "admissions to their gods in exchange for the gods not punishing them. 

Jesus is nothing more than the Christian version of throwing a virgin into a volcano.

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Brian37 wrote: Jesus is

Brian37 wrote:
 

Jesus is nothing more than the Christian version of throwing a virgin into a volcano.

What a waste of a perfectly good virgin. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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1 Timothy 1 13 17

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

jesus inherted the fathers power so through him is taught forgiveness the rule books adapted and we can now have a relationship with god so he can love us openly because without sin we can aproach him.

 

 

                 Jesus is a fictional charactor;  and your does not exist beyond your own imagination. And if you  think jesus taught forgivness you had better read up on the Mr.T. aspect of the "forgiving jesus"in Matt 10; 34-39.   That Joshua bar  Joseph charactor is made up of several very divers persons some were real others were total fantasy.   I like the real world,  you might want to join us there sometime.

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1 Timothy 1 13 17

1 Timothy 1 13 17 wrote:

jesus inherted the fathers power so through him is taught forgiveness the rule books adapted and we can now have a relationship with god so he can love us openly because without sin we can aproach him.

Jesus inherited the power? When did his father die?

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Timothy, meet the <enter>

Timothy, meet the <enter> key. <enter> key meet Timothy.

 

Timmy, please press the <enter> key twice after every few sentences to break your thought up into logical blocks. Writers call such logical blocks “paragraphs” and it improves the readability of your text.

 

If you have ever read a book or a news paper, you might have noticed that all the good writers do this fairly often.

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Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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Tim, if you are here to

Tim, if you are here to honestly learn about atheism you'll learn better by responding to the meat of what people are saying.  Most of your posts are not questions about what we are saying, they are comments about your own beliefs.

You've has some tough comments and questions sent your way, but I've yet to see you respond to any and that doesn't build a great deal of respect into the conversation.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Ok that's not the questions you should be asking. We are athiest. Dude, listen, talk with some of the other christians on this forum before you post anything else. Obviously someone told you about this forum and they should have warned you not to come here and try to council a bunch of athiests on god. I haven't been on this forum long at all but I can tell you this-if you are studying us or whatever you may want to chill with your urge to push the bible in here. It will absolutely get you no where.

Thank you. there is another Newbie here whom I am raking over the coals, but understands that it is a two way street, not a "sharing" event, or a "teaching event".

As I have said, and will always say, believers ARE welcome here, and I do speak for the board even though I am not a mod, owner and just a fan and member. This is a place for atheists, just like  a homeowner has the right to do what they want in their own house.

RRS really don't want people coming here torturing themselves and causing themselves needless stress. And the only way they can avoid that stress is to do one of two things. Leave if they are not comfortable, which is fine, this is not for everyone. Or if they chose to stay, accept this is the way this website  does things.

I do speak for the board as well in that we are not out to oppress anyone or outlaw their beliefs. What won't happen on this board is someone who has no say in it telling the owners what they can or cannot do, that is up to them, not me, not any of the members.

There are many members and we do not all have the same approach to dialogue in how we deal with believers. But all of us do have in our daily lives people we love who do believe. When a believer engages anyone of us the best advice is to treat all of us as individuals, and if you don't want to respond to a post, don't.

And spend time reading first before you come in posting emotional rants. You will find out that we are just as human with the same range of emotions and flaws and likes and dislikes as believers.

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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Ok that's not the questions you should be asking. We are athiest. Dude, listen, talk with some of the other christians on this forum before you post anything else. Obviously someone told you about this forum and they should have warned you not to come here and try to council a bunch of athiests on god. I haven't been on this forum long at all but I can tell you this-if you are studying us or whatever you may want to chill with your urge to push the bible in here. It will absolutely get you no where.

Thank you. there is another Newbie here whom I am raking over the coals, but understands that it is a two way street, not a "sharing" event, or a "teaching event".

As I have said, and will always say, believers ARE welcome here, and I do speak for the board even though I am not a mod, owner and just a fan and member. This is a place for atheists, just like  a homeowner has the right to do what they want in their own house.

RRS really don't want people coming here torturing themselves and causing themselves needless stress. And the only way they can avoid that stress is to do one of two things. Leave if they are not comfortable, which is fine, this is not for everyone. Or if they chose to stay, accept this is the way this website  does things.

I do speak for the board as well in that we are not out to oppress anyone or outlaw their beliefs. What won't happen on this board is someone who has no say in it telling the owners what they can or cannot do, that is up to them, not me, not any of the members.

There are many members and we do not all have the same approach to dialogue in how we deal with believers. But all of us do have in our daily lives people we love who do believe. When a believer engages anyone of us the best advice is to treat all of us as individuals, and if you don't want to respond to a post, don't.

And spend time reading first before you come in posting emotional rants. You will find out that we are just as human with the same range of emotions and flaws and likes and dislikes as believers.

 

 If you feel it is your obligation to 'rake me through the coals" then by all means have fun with it. On the other hand don't put words in mouth. I NEVER said he wasn't welcome here. Nor did I outlaw his beliefs. On the other hand I don't care for my beliefs being outlawed or ridiculed. He made the statement "don't blame him for your troubles". I don't blame god for my troubles, I just don't believe in him. He can come on here and say whatever he wants to but who are you to tell me what and what not to say? I don't have a freedom of speech on here according to you? I did'nt threaten him, cuss him out or tell him to get off of this forum. I simply advised him that if he didn't want to walk into a pack of wolves then maybe he should take some time to think about his approach.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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You're all so prickly today!

You're all so prickly today!  It is like a trip to cacti-park!

 

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Ok that's not the questions you should be asking. We are athiest. Dude, listen, talk with some of the other christians on this forum before you post anything else. Obviously someone told you about this forum and they should have warned you not to come here and try to council a bunch of athiests on god. I haven't been on this forum long at all but I can tell you this-if you are studying us or whatever you may want to chill with your urge to push the bible in here. It will absolutely get you no where.

Thank you. there is another Newbie here whom I am raking over the coals, but understands that it is a two way street, not a "sharing" event, or a "teaching event".

As I have said, and will always say, believers ARE welcome here, and I do speak for the board even though I am not a mod, owner and just a fan and member. This is a place for atheists, just like  a homeowner has the right to do what they want in their own house.

RRS really don't want people coming here torturing themselves and causing themselves needless stress. And the only way they can avoid that stress is to do one of two things. Leave if they are not comfortable, which is fine, this is not for everyone. Or if they chose to stay, accept this is the way this website  does things.

I do speak for the board as well in that we are not out to oppress anyone or outlaw their beliefs. What won't happen on this board is someone who has no say in it telling the owners what they can or cannot do, that is up to them, not me, not any of the members.

There are many members and we do not all have the same approach to dialogue in how we deal with believers. But all of us do have in our daily lives people we love who do believe. When a believer engages anyone of us the best advice is to treat all of us as individuals, and if you don't want to respond to a post, don't.

And spend time reading first before you come in posting emotional rants. You will find out that we are just as human with the same range of emotions and flaws and likes and dislikes as believers.

I hope this was a cut and paste from you raking over the coals you did to another newbie, I have seen much worse and said much worse myself. Do you like picking on a woman? She was only saying that it was his first day and he came in with the why don't you believe, and like all others with no creditable evidence. Now I did rake him through the coals for the comments that he made. Now rake me through the coals so I don't feel left out...

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Ok that's not the questions you should be asking. We are athiest. Dude, listen, talk with some of the other christians on this forum before you post anything else. Obviously someone told you about this forum and they should have warned you not to come here and try to council a bunch of athiests on god. I haven't been on this forum long at all but I can tell you this-if you are studying us or whatever you may want to chill with your urge to push the bible in here. It will absolutely get you no where.

Thank you. there is another Newbie here whom I am raking over the coals, but understands that it is a two way street, not a "sharing" event, or a "teaching event".

As I have said, and will always say, believers ARE welcome here, and I do speak for the board even though I am not a mod, owner and just a fan and member. This is a place for atheists, just like  a homeowner has the right to do what they want in their own house.

RRS really don't want people coming here torturing themselves and causing themselves needless stress. And the only way they can avoid that stress is to do one of two things. Leave if they are not comfortable, which is fine, this is not for everyone. Or if they chose to stay, accept this is the way this website  does things.

I do speak for the board as well in that we are not out to oppress anyone or outlaw their beliefs. What won't happen on this board is someone who has no say in it telling the owners what they can or cannot do, that is up to them, not me, not any of the members.

There are many members and we do not all have the same approach to dialogue in how we deal with believers. But all of us do have in our daily lives people we love who do believe. When a believer engages anyone of us the best advice is to treat all of us as individuals, and if you don't want to respond to a post, don't.

And spend time reading first before you come in posting emotional rants. You will find out that we are just as human with the same range of emotions and flaws and likes and dislikes as believers.

 

 If you feel it is your obligation to 'rake me through the coals" then by all means have fun with it. On the other hand don't put words in mouth. I NEVER said he wasn't welcome here. Nor did I outlaw his beliefs. On the other hand I don't care for my beliefs being outlawed or ridiculed. He made the statement "don't blame him for your troubles". I don't blame god for my troubles, I just don't believe in him. He can come on here and say whatever he wants to but who are you to tell me what and what not to say? I don't have a freedom of speech on here according to you? I did'nt threaten him, cuss him out or tell him to get off of this forum. I simply advised him that if he didn't want to walk into a pack of wolves then maybe he should take some time to think about his approach.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I am sorry if it came across that way, really. I was merely making a general statement to all who might consider posting here.

Quote:
I simply advised him that if he didn't want to walk into a pack of wolves then maybe he should take some time to think about his approach.

Agreed.

The stuff about outlawing and threats and all that was a general statement, adding to what you said. Neither the believer or the atheist should want to outlaw the others beliefs. Neither the atheist or the believer should threaten violence to the other.

I say that because sometimes believers who are so emotional will jump in without putting their emotions in check, and end up with the hit and run posts, or worse. SOMETIMES, not all the time. Again, merely adding to what you posted.

Quote:
Who are you to tell me what and what not to say? He can come on here and say whatever he wants to but who are you to tell me what and what not to say? I don't have a freedom of speech on here according to you?

None of us do, including me. The rules of this board are what the owner of the board sets. Since neither you or I own the boards, and since neither you or I are mods under the owners direction, we have no say. This is private property.

"Freedom of speech" only refers to the fact that the government cannot have you arrested for merely for saying something it might not like.  Private property laws allow owners to set their own rules.

Neither of us, can be arrested by the owner of the site for saying something he may not like, but he is well withing his property rights to ban anyone he chooses. I think Brian Sapient has rules set up that are extremely hands off as far as regulating what people say here. He has basic rules that most sites have.

No spamming

No soc puppets

No criminal threats to others.

THE Terms of service are available to read. I am sure the list is more detailed than the above. But in my 6 years here I can say a poster would have to screw up really really bad to get banned here.

I do not have any right to tell you what you can or cannot say here, only the mods and owner can. And I never said that you claimed that others were making threats, nor did I claim that you were saying others religions should be outlawed. I was making an advisement to any potential poster, like you were with your advise. Nothing more. You took it out of context, and admittedly, maybe I should have made myself more clear.

 

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Brian37 wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Ok that's not the questions you should be asking. We are athiest. Dude, listen, talk with some of the other christians on this forum before you post anything else. Obviously someone told you about this forum and they should have warned you not to come here and try to council a bunch of athiests on god. I haven't been on this forum long at all but I can tell you this-if you are studying us or whatever you may want to chill with your urge to push the bible in here. It will absolutely get you no where.

Thank you. there is another Newbie here whom I am raking over the coals, but understands that it is a two way street, not a "sharing" event, or a "teaching event".

As I have said, and will always say, believers ARE welcome here, and I do speak for the board even though I am not a mod, owner and just a fan and member. This is a place for atheists, just like  a homeowner has the right to do what they want in their own house.

RRS really don't want people coming here torturing themselves and causing themselves needless stress. And the only way they can avoid that stress is to do one of two things. Leave if they are not comfortable, which is fine, this is not for everyone. Or if they chose to stay, accept this is the way this website  does things.

I do speak for the board as well in that we are not out to oppress anyone or outlaw their beliefs. What won't happen on this board is someone who has no say in it telling the owners what they can or cannot do, that is up to them, not me, not any of the members.

There are many members and we do not all have the same approach to dialogue in how we deal with believers. But all of us do have in our daily lives people we love who do believe. When a believer engages anyone of us the best advice is to treat all of us as individuals, and if you don't want to respond to a post, don't.

And spend time reading first before you come in posting emotional rants. You will find out that we are just as human with the same range of emotions and flaws and likes and dislikes as believers.

 

 If you feel it is your obligation to 'rake me through the coals" then by all means have fun with it. On the other hand don't put words in mouth. I NEVER said he wasn't welcome here. Nor did I outlaw his beliefs. On the other hand I don't care for my beliefs being outlawed or ridiculed. He made the statement "don't blame him for your troubles". I don't blame god for my troubles, I just don't believe in him. He can come on here and say whatever he wants to but who are you to tell me what and what not to say? I don't have a freedom of speech on here according to you? I did'nt threaten him, cuss him out or tell him to get off of this forum. I simply advised him that if he didn't want to walk into a pack of wolves then maybe he should take some time to think about his approach.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I am sorry if it came across that way, really. I was merely making a general statement to all who might consider posting here.

Quote:
I simply advised him that if he didn't want to walk into a pack of wolves then maybe he should take some time to think about his approach.

Agreed.

The stuff about outlawing and threats and all that was a general statement, adding to what you said. Neither the believer or the atheist should want to outlaw the others beliefs. Neither the atheist or the believer should threaten violence to the other.

I say that because sometimes believers who are so emotional will jump in without putting their emotions in check, and end up with the hit and run posts, or worse. SOMETIMES, not all the time. Again, merely adding to what you posted.

Quote:
Who are you to tell me what and what not to say? He can come on here and say whatever he wants to but who are you to tell me what and what not to say? I don't have a freedom of speech on here according to you?

None of us do, including me. The rules of this board are what the owner of the board sets. Since neither you or I own the boards, and since neither you or I are mods under the owners direction, we have no say. This is private property.

"Freedom of speech" only refers to the fact that the government cannot have you arrested for merely for saying something it might not like.  Private property laws allow owners to set their own rules.

Neither of us, can be arrested by the owner of the site for saying something he may not like, but he is well withing his property rights to ban anyone he chooses. I think Brian Sapient has rules set up that are extremely hands off as far as regulating what people say here. He has basic rules that most sites have.

No spamming

No soc puppets

No criminal threats to others.

THE Terms of service are available to read. I am sure the list is more detailed than the above. But in my 6 years here I can say a poster would have to screw up really really bad to get banned here.

I do not have any right to tell you what you can or cannot say here, only the mods and owner can. And I never said that you claimed that others were making threats, nor did I claim that you were saying others religions should be outlawed. I was making an advisement to any potential poster, like you were with your advise. Nothing more. You took it out of context, and admittedly, maybe I should have made myself more clear.

 

 

Then maybe next time you should click the reply icon. You quoted me so the comment about outlawing peoples beliefs was directed towards me as far as I was concerned. Not to mention the newbie you get to rake through the coals comment. I'm not on here to argue with anyone or tell anyone that they should say this or that. 

Throughout human history as our species has faced the frighten terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are and where we are going; it has been the authority (the political, the religious, and the educational authorities) who have attempted to comfort us. By giving us order, rules, and regulation. Informing or forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question these authorities. THINK FOR YOURSELF…


rebecca.williamson
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 Sorry but dumb dumb was

 Sorry but dumb dumb was logged in on my computer so that last post was actually mine.


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jimmy.williamson

jimmy.williamson wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Ok that's not the questions you should be asking. We are athiest. Dude, listen, talk with some of the other christians on this forum before you post anything else. Obviously someone told you about this forum and they should have warned you not to come here and try to council a bunch of athiests on god. I haven't been on this forum long at all but I can tell you this-if you are studying us or whatever you may want to chill with your urge to push the bible in here. It will absolutely get you no where.

Thank you. there is another Newbie here whom I am raking over the coals, but understands that it is a two way street, not a "sharing" event, or a "teaching event".

As I have said, and will always say, believers ARE welcome here, and I do speak for the board even though I am not a mod, owner and just a fan and member. This is a place for atheists, just like  a homeowner has the right to do what they want in their own house.

RRS really don't want people coming here torturing themselves and causing themselves needless stress. And the only way they can avoid that stress is to do one of two things. Leave if they are not comfortable, which is fine, this is not for everyone. Or if they chose to stay, accept this is the way this website  does things.

I do speak for the board as well in that we are not out to oppress anyone or outlaw their beliefs. What won't happen on this board is someone who has no say in it telling the owners what they can or cannot do, that is up to them, not me, not any of the members.

There are many members and we do not all have the same approach to dialogue in how we deal with believers. But all of us do have in our daily lives people we love who do believe. When a believer engages anyone of us the best advice is to treat all of us as individuals, and if you don't want to respond to a post, don't.

And spend time reading first before you come in posting emotional rants. You will find out that we are just as human with the same range of emotions and flaws and likes and dislikes as believers.

 

 If you feel it is your obligation to 'rake me through the coals" then by all means have fun with it. On the other hand don't put words in mouth. I NEVER said he wasn't welcome here. Nor did I outlaw his beliefs. On the other hand I don't care for my beliefs being outlawed or ridiculed. He made the statement "don't blame him for your troubles". I don't blame god for my troubles, I just don't believe in him. He can come on here and say whatever he wants to but who are you to tell me what and what not to say? I don't have a freedom of speech on here according to you? I did'nt threaten him, cuss him out or tell him to get off of this forum. I simply advised him that if he didn't want to walk into a pack of wolves then maybe he should take some time to think about his approach.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I am sorry if it came across that way, really. I was merely making a general statement to all who might consider posting here.

Quote:
I simply advised him that if he didn't want to walk into a pack of wolves then maybe he should take some time to think about his approach.

Agreed.

The stuff about outlawing and threats and all that was a general statement, adding to what you said. Neither the believer or the atheist should want to outlaw the others beliefs. Neither the atheist or the believer should threaten violence to the other.

I say that because sometimes believers who are so emotional will jump in without putting their emotions in check, and end up with the hit and run posts, or worse. SOMETIMES, not all the time. Again, merely adding to what you posted.

Quote:
Who are you to tell me what and what not to say? He can come on here and say whatever he wants to but who are you to tell me what and what not to say? I don't have a freedom of speech on here according to you?

None of us do, including me. The rules of this board are what the owner of the board sets. Since neither you or I own the boards, and since neither you or I are mods under the owners direction, we have no say. This is private property.

"Freedom of speech" only refers to the fact that the government cannot have you arrested for merely for saying something it might not like.  Private property laws allow owners to set their own rules.

Neither of us, can be arrested by the owner of the site for saying something he may not like, but he is well withing his property rights to ban anyone he chooses. I think Brian Sapient has rules set up that are extremely hands off as far as regulating what people say here. He has basic rules that most sites have.

No spamming

No soc puppets

No criminal threats to others.

THE Terms of service are available to read. I am sure the list is more detailed than the above. But in my 6 years here I can say a poster would have to screw up really really bad to get banned here.

I do not have any right to tell you what you can or cannot say here, only the mods and owner can. And I never said that you claimed that others were making threats, nor did I claim that you were saying others religions should be outlawed. I was making an advisement to any potential poster, like you were with your advise. Nothing more. You took it out of context, and admittedly, maybe I should have made myself more clear.

 

 

Then maybe next time you should click the reply icon. You quoted me so the comment about outlawing peoples beliefs was directed towards me as far as I was concerned. Not to mention the newbie you get to rake through the coals comment. I'm not on here to argue with anyone or tell anyone that they should say this or that. 

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. Text does not have the same context as face to face conversation so it is helpful to clear things up when things like this happen.

FYI, I am here to argue with people. But in the context of debate. And as I have said here, and say all the time. We, you and I, and the believers who post here along with the atheists, are all individuals and we should treat each other as such.

Your comfort level, I don't know what it is, is different than others here. And the believers who come here also have different comfort levels, and that should be a self introspective thing all of us take into account when dealing with others.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I'm not mad or anything and

I'm not mad or anything and apology exepted. I do feel pretty comfortable here and yes i do argue with people too lol. Just understand I'm not here to crash anybodys beliefs. I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I'm only here to debate and see if there are factual proof there is a god which I have not seen yet. Not to mention this is one of the only places I don't feel critisized for my beliefs.

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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I hope we can all be friends again!

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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Haha roflmao that was good

Haha roflmao that was good


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Quote: Just understand I'm

Quote:
Just understand I'm not here to crash anybodys beliefs. I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

I am here to crash peoples beliefs. Not in the context you seem to imply.

What I am reading in your quote above is "I am not comfortable with tough language, and we should all get along"

First off, everyone should have the human right to believe and claim whatever they want. Why? Because I want that same right myself. In order to protect my own rights I have to protect the rights of even the people I disagree with.

BUT equally important is the right to challenge a belief and even blaspheme and ridicule it. A claim that cannot withstand heat is one not worth defending.

There is a difference between the human rights protected by government law.

AND

The separate issue of having the ability to demonstrate a claim as being credible. I don't respect claims that cannot be demonstrated to be true, even if I like the person who is making the claim.

I agree everyone, both the believer and the atheist absolutely have the GOVERNMENT human right to believe and claim what they want.

BUT that does not mean an utterance automatically deserves the label "credible" as if it is universal fact. We are all entitled to our own beliefs, not our own facts.

I have the capability of liking an individual with out liking everything that comes out of their mouth, ON ANY GIVEN ISSUE.

In the context of this board, I let lose and pull my fangs out. If I go into the "Kill em with Kindness" section, I am more reserved with my words, as per the rules of that section. If I am invited to a wedding or a funeral, those are also other contexts which require different behaviors.

It is nice that you want to get along with others. I do too. I simply don't see always sugar coating life and dancing around words as a way to have this battle. You are entitled to handle your conversations with believers the way you wish and the way you are most comfortable. But, just like all believers are not the same, neither are we.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


rebecca.williamson
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 Ok, we are back on this

 Ok, we are back on this again. Now you are reading into what I type as to mean something else. First off you DON'T KNOW ME so don't put words in my mouth. Second, I don't know what your problem is but if it's an arguement you want then whatever. This isn't the first time I've seen you lash out at someone on this forum. If you're looking to tear somebody apart because they defend themselves because YOU step over a boundary then apparently I can do the same as you just did and read from your quotes that maybe you have an anger problem.

I don't sugar coat a damn thing nor do I dance around words and if you ever have something smart ass to say about me or anything I post I gaurantee you I surely won't then either. I'm not sure what battle you are talking about since this is a website for athiest and theist to discuss and debate but if it's a battle to you then ok. Have fun with it. I saw you did the same thing earlier on another post that you were accusing me of doing. I'm here to tell you that it is so not your job to lay down the rules for me ( I did read them when I created my profile ) nor is it your job to set me straight on anything.

You obviously believe differenly than I do and I'm not talking about the bible here. You seem to think you can just tell people how to post, turn around and tell them they took it the wrong way, then give them permission to post however they want. As far as liking an individual but not liking what comes out of their mouth - I could care less if you like me or not or what comes out of my mouth. I'll tell you like you told thayward65 not to post, if you don't like what i have to say about something ignore it and don't comment. Now I'm done with this subject. If you feel the need to carry on about it have fun. 

If all the Christians who have called other Christians " not really a Christian " were to vanish, there'd be no Christians left.


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Timmy, anything other than

Timmy, anything other than stories from your holy book explaining what you believe would be great.  How about a good argument for the existance of the particular god you believe in for starters.  Or perhaps an explanation of why exactly you believe the bible to not only be true, but a good guide for our behavior. 

 

 


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Timmy has converted me

 

with the childish strength of his warm belief. Now I want to spent eternity in heaven plucking god's golden harp.

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Atheistextremist

Atheistextremist wrote:

 

with the childish strength of his warm belief. Now I want to spent eternity in heaven plucking god's golden harp.

 

My eyes!  My eyes!!!!!!!!!!

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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rebecca.williamson

rebecca.williamson wrote:

 Ok, we are back on this again. Now you are reading into what I type as to mean something else. First off you DON'T KNOW ME so don't put words in my mouth. Second, I don't know what your problem is but if it's an arguement you want then whatever. This isn't the first time I've seen you lash out at someone on this forum. If you're looking to tear somebody apart because they defend themselves because YOU step over a boundary then apparently I can do the same as you just did and read from your quotes that maybe you have an anger problem.

I don't sugar coat a damn thing nor do I dance around words and if you ever have something smart ass to say about me or anything I post I gaurantee you I surely won't then either. I'm not sure what battle you are talking about since this is a website for athiest and theist to discuss and debate but if it's a battle to you then ok. Have fun with it. I saw you did the same thing earlier on another post that you were accusing me of doing. I'm here to tell you that it is so not your job to lay down the rules for me ( I did read them when I created my profile ) nor is it your job to set me straight on anything.

You obviously believe differenly than I do and I'm not talking about the bible here. You seem to think you can just tell people how to post, turn around and tell them they took it the wrong way, then give them permission to post however they want. As far as liking an individual but not liking what comes out of their mouth - I could care less if you like me or not or what comes out of my mouth. I'll tell you like you told thayward65 not to post, if you don't like what i have to say about something ignore it and don't comment. Now I'm done with this subject. If you feel the need to carry on about it have fun. 

Once again, I am NOT putting words in your mouth. I was telling you what my personal approach was. I don't sugar coat my words. Others here are more reserved but do just as much damage to theists arguments as I do with my metaphorical fangs. THAT IS JUST ME. I wasn't speaking for you. So by all means, lets move on.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37