Had some questions about evolution.

Zeeboe
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Had some questions about evolution.

I know very, very little about this topic. Never took a class on it. (Why is for another thread.) That is probably why I still don't totally rule out the fact that a God could exist, but I've been doing some studying on this subject and I'm sorry in advance if some of these questions sound totally stupid. I litreally just a few minutes ago began looking at some youtube clips on it:

So we have all these different types of animals (humans included) and it took a few million years for all living creatures to evolve? Is this correct?

 

If that is correct, does that mean in...say....another million years we humans are going to look different and that animals may look different as well?

 

Does it ever stop? Meaning will we humans and animals ever settle into one form or are we going to forever be growing?

 

Are we humans going to get smarter? I am guessing yes because when we look back on our past, we probably see the way people lived as being cave manish compared to what we have today and if you study history, you clearly see as time goes by, things get better and better.

 

Final question: Do you think it's possible that a God of some sort is the one doing all this? Or is this just all happening on it's own? I don't mean the Christian God by the way. I think that's a man made concept, but could it be some type of higher power out there with some type of plan?

I know some believe that in a billon years, the world will blow up and maybe that is a good thing because if we keep growing and growing without someone to push the "stop" button, who knows what will happen.

It is an interesting idea: Some believe the world started with a big bang and maybe it will end with a big bang too. That right there does leave me open to the idea that a higher power or aliens or something out there is doing all this. It just seems too weird to be doing it to itself. Like maybe after this world blows up, another chapter for humankind will begin and ALL this right here will just erase.

 

....In fact, maybe that's already happened a few times. Maybe there was a whole other history of humankind before us and maybe this "God" is doing all this because he's trying to find a perfect society? Or it could just be happening on it's own. Like a giant clock that just goes around in circles over and over again.

 

Err....I am getting WAY too deep now. These are all pretty crazy thoughts. I'll shut up so the smart people can respond.

 


cj
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Zeeboe wrote:I know very,

Zeeboe wrote:

I know very, very little about this topic. Never took a class on it. (Why is for another thread.) That is probably why I still don't totally rule out the fact that a God could exist, but I've been doing some studying on this subject and I'm sorry in advance if some of these questions sound totally stupid. I litreally just a few minutes ago began looking at some youtube clips on it:

So we have all these different types of animals (humans included) and it took a few million years for all living creatures to evolve? Is this correct?

 

It appears to be closer to billions of years.  See AtheistExtremist's post on the most recent find of truly ancient multicellular life.

 

Zeeboe wrote:

If that is correct, does that mean in...say....another million years we humans are going to look different and that animals may look different as well?

 

Maybe, maybe not.  It depends on the evolutionary pressures in the environment.  When the environment changes, it may not change enough to push a particular species to change - or it may.  We don't know this in advance.

 

Zeeboe wrote:

Does it ever stop? Meaning will we humans and animals ever settle into one form or are we going to forever be growing?

 

Purge from your mind the idea that evolution means "growing", "improving", "higher on the ladder".  The only thing that matters is whether you and your children survive to have grandchildren.  This may involve losing some of the so-called "higher" evolutionary traits.  A bacteria is evolved for the environment where it survives, no further evolution required.

 

Zeeboe wrote:

Are we humans going to get smarter? I am guessing yes because when we look back on our past, we probably see the way people lived as being cave manish compared to what we have today and if you study history, you clearly see as time goes by, things get better and better.

 

Read Guns, Germs and Steel or watch the special.  It's available on DVD so you can rent it.  He thinks that civilized man is dumber than someone who is a hunter gatherer.  Why?  Because what we needed to survive in crowded communities is disease resistance, not intelligence.  I still don't know if I agree with him, but I know plenty of stupid people, so he may have a point.

 

Zeeboe wrote:

Final question: Do you think it's possible that a God of some sort is the one doing all this? Or is this just all happening on it's own? I don't mean the Christian God by the way. I think that's a man made concept, but could it be some type of higher power out there with some type of plan?

 

There are plenty of people who think there is some directive force behind all this.  If so, s/he/it is a lousy engineer.  And the plan sucks.  9 billion people?  Inadequate food, water and medical care?  This is a plan?  A plan to increase misery, perhaps.  I prefer to believe it is random because I want nothing to do with a god/s/dess who might have created this mess.  Add that to the total lack of evidence for any such intervention, and there I am.

Try this web site: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

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Zeeboe wrote:So we have all

Zeeboe wrote:
So we have all these different types of animals (humans included) and it took a few million years for all living creatures to evolve? Is this correct?

 

Well, we have fossils of stuff that was definitely alive 450 million years ago. Certainly stuff was alive before then, possibly as far back as 2,500 million years ago. The farther back we look, the harder the evidence is to interpret but apart from the scale, pretty much you have that down.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
If that is correct, does that mean in...say....another million years we humans are going to look different and that animals may look different as well?

 

Well, there is no reason to assume that we are the final form of evolution. So if our descendants are still around in a million years, then there is no reason that we would be exactly as we are today.

 

Honestly though, a million years is not much time for large amounts of evolutionary change. Were it possible to go that far back in time, the ancestors of all of us would very probably be capable of holding a reasonable conversation with us (language barriers not withstanding). One would probably have to go back to around 3 million years ago to get to the point where we evolved the ability to do more than grunt at each other.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
Does it ever stop? Meaning will we humans and animals ever settle into one form or are we going to forever be growing?

 

As I noted above, there is no reason to expect that evolution will eventually develop the perfect creature. A better question would be to ask “perfect for what situation?” Perhaps we will eventually build cities on Mars and the descendants of the first settlers will evolve in ways that are suited for that environment.

 

If, in a million years, we manage to settle other planets elsewhere in the galaxy, the people who colonize those worlds would adapt to whatever conditions they find locally.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
Are we humans going to get smarter? I am guessing yes because when we look back on our past, we probably see the way people lived as being cave manish compared to what we have today and if you study history, you clearly see as time goes by, things get better and better.

 

Well sure. IQ testing is already showing this as a general trend. About 3 points of IQ per decade judging buy the results of the last hundred or so years.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
Final question: Do you think it's possible that a God of some sort is the one doing all this? Or is this just all happening on it's own? I don't mean the Christian God by the way. I think that's a man made concept, but could it be some type of higher power out there with some type of plan?

 

Well, could aliens be messing with our genetics? I suppose that might be something worth at least looking into. However, if there are really powerful aliens messing with us, they have not done much to leave any evidence. For example, many genetic diseases have been fairly well studied and they all are natural in origin as far as anyone can tell.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
I know some believe that in a billon years, the world will blow up and maybe that is a good thing because if we keep growing and growing without someone to push the "stop" button, who knows what will happen.

 

Well, certainly the sun will run out of hydrogen fuel one day. As far as we can tell, big changes to the sun are probably not going to happen until about another 4 billion years, at which time, the surface of the earth will certainly become uninhabitable.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
It is an interesting idea: Some believe the world started with a big bang and maybe it will end with a big bang too. That right there does leave me open to the idea that a higher power or aliens or something out there is doing all this. It just seems too weird to be doing it to itself. Like maybe after this world blows up, another chapter for humankind will begin and ALL this right here will just erase.

 

Well, now you are starting to get into cosmology, which is of course a different science. For what it is worth, we have plenty of evidence that the big bang really happened. Also, the most current evidence suggests that the expansion of the universe is accelerating, so probably no big crunch at the end so much as the universe just getting colder for at least the next several billion years.

 

One theory is based on observtion of how galaxies seem to move and it holds that the more distant ones will eventually recede from us so much that they will end up receding from us fasater than the speed of light and effectively no longer be part of the universe. The two dozen or so nearest galaxies appear to be falling in towards each other and they will possibly merge to become a single super galaxy.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
Err....I am getting WAY too deep now. These are all pretty crazy thoughts. I'll shut up so the smart people can respond.

 

Indeed.

NoMoreCrazyPeople wrote:
Never ever did I say enything about free, I said "free."

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Zeeboe wrote:I know very,

Zeeboe wrote:

I know very, very little about this topic. Never took a class on it. (Why is for another thread.) That is probably why I still don't totally rule out the fact that a God could exist, but I've been doing some studying on this subject and I'm sorry in advance if some of these questions sound totally stupid. I litreally just a few minutes ago began looking at some youtube clips on it:

So we have all these different types of animals (humans included) and it took a few million years for all living creatures to evolve? Is this correct?

Yeah. Evolution is one of best proven theories in science.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
If that is correct, does that mean in...say....another million years we humans are going to look different and that animals may look different as well?
Not necessarily. Natural selection doesn't work with us the same way it works with animals. Instead of changing ourselves by dying and letting the adaptable survive, we rather change the environment to our needs.
My information is, that in future human physiology will remain pretty much the same, except of the build of eye. There will be minor change in eye construction, that will enlarge visible spectrum somewhat into infrared and ultraviolet. This will literally change our view of the world, because some things unseen and considered supernatural and unreal will become visible. This change will not occur by natural selection, but by esoteric kind of cyclical cosmic influence.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
Does it ever stop? Meaning will we humans and animals ever settle into one form or are we going to forever be growing?
Form changes only when it's necessary. For animals it's still necessary, but not for us, we can survive quite well by our technology. Instead, we are part of another evolution, which is evolution of consciousness. There are and will be great changes in consciousness. We and animals mastered a large scale of emotion. We also developed rational mind. But by further development we will be able to use our emotions instead of letting us to be used. Furthermore, rational reasoning will drop under conscious threshold and will become automatical. Intuition will become a conscious discipline, the art of instantaneous correct knowledge of what we don't even know.
I think it is beginning, because I'm tired of the wasted time people here spend to clarify semantics, language, philosophies and logics. Can't they just do it subconsciously and understand each other, like we esotericists do?

 

Zeeboe wrote:
  Are we humans going to get smarter? I am guessing yes because when we look back on our past, we probably see the way people lived as being cave manish compared to what we have today and if you study history, you clearly see as time goes by, things get better and better.
Yes, very much. But not only smarter, also more tolerant, cooperative and creative. But we will have to end competition of economy and wars. Competition is a primitive behavior that combined with advanced technology already brings catastrophe. Competition is bad, because it has only one winner and many losers. In competition, most of actual effort and benefit is wasted on defeating the competitors, not on productive activity. We really need only very little competition, in sports mainly.

 

Zeeboe wrote:
Final question: Do you think it's possible that a God of some sort is the one doing all this? Or is this just all happening on it's own? I don't mean the Christian God by the way. I think that's a man made concept, but could it be some type of higher power out there with some type of plan?
One of esoteric implication is, that matter, energy are convertible, and that energy itself represents most basic, fundamental form of life and consciousness. It is also said, that focused thought controls energy. There can not be any reasonable idea of God without the most basic, natural properties and laws of the universe, which rules out antropomorphism. But the universe is more than that, and here esotericism takes care to give extremely elaborate description. The basic idea is, that natural force can be embodied, represented and performed for some place and time by a living being, and so there are hierarchies who work with these natural forces according to a certain plan, of which they know more, the higher they stand in the hierarchy. The planned evolution of form and consciousness is documented in esotericism, it's in best interest of every person to help it, as every creature of good will does, consciously or not, effectively or not.

Zeeboe wrote:
I know some believe that in a billon years, the world will blow up and maybe that is a good thing because if we keep growing and growing without someone to push the "stop" button, who knows what will happen.
We only grow for about last 150 years. If we don't destroy ourselves and estabilish a basic living standard and ceiling on Earth, population will be made stabilized and sustainable. According to esotericism, after some point in evolution of consciousness we won't care what oxygen and temperature Earth has. Hell, some governments and corporations already don't care about that now Smiling Smiling Smiling

Zeeboe wrote:
It is an interesting idea: Some believe the world started with a big bang and maybe it will end with a big bang too. That right there does leave me open to the idea that a higher power or aliens or something out there is doing all this. It just seems too weird to be doing it to itself. Like maybe after this world blows up, another chapter for humankind will begin and ALL this right here will just erase.
  Except of that erasing and second Big bang, in esotericism it's something like that. But we must not forget of dimensions. There is currently 7 dimensions known to us, besides space and time. Consider what had to happen in these dimensions, so that in our own dimension there occured this explosive beginning. And consider what has to happen with nature of the matter itself, so that it gradually returns to it's original state and place through higher dimensions. The basic idea is, that matter is an anomaly, a precipitation from dark matter, like bubbles in jelly. Gradually, it will dissolve again into what we call dark matter and what esotericists call etheric part of physical world. Even this etheric world will sublime further.

Zeeboe wrote:
  ....In fact, maybe that's already happened a few times. Maybe there was a whole other history of humankind before us and maybe this "God" is doing all this because he's trying to find a perfect society? Or it could just be happening on it's own. Like a giant clock that just goes around in circles over and over again.
One problem is to find a perfect society, and another problem is to carry it out through evolution of consciousness and cultural development. Yes, it would happen automatically, by itself, through natural forces who's origin we take as granted, but that would be terribly slow, beyond anyone's patience. This is why there is conscious and planned endeavour of individuals to speed up this development. Without them we'd be still like bushmen in Kalahari at best. It's the greatest minds of all nations who carry out certain visions into physical reality and therefore influence the world. This is why esotericism isn't fun, it's a work. The fundamental nature of life and goodwill is work and service, and those who do it well, will be rewarded with more work and bigger responsibility.

As for other civilizations and humanities, I don't know if you mean previous universes (of which I know nothing) or previous batches of humanity, of which I know too much to do anything else than point a finger to a book. In particular, dr. Ernst Muldashev's book Ot kogo my proizoshl? (who's descendats are we) That guy is no esotericist, but scientist, inventor and optical surgeon.

Zeeboe wrote:
Err....I am getting WAY too deep now. These are all pretty crazy thoughts. I'll shut up so the smart people can respond.

No problem. These are unusual thoughts, but many people berofe you were concerned with them and made a research about them. I am familiar with their results. What is way too deep for you, is a comfortable depth for me. From my point of view, the surface is mysterious Smiling

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Evolution is merely about

Evolution is merely about slow and tiny changes over long periods of time. Evolution, is not about any biological life being the apex of life. Evolution is merely about getting to the point of making the next generation.

Bacteria and cockroaches outnumber humans, if that gives you any perspective.

It is most likely if we go by prior species that are now extinct, that humans will go extinct too, long before the sun expands and fries our planet. But life WILL continue as long as our planet can support it, even when humans go extinct.

 

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