Causation outside time=> infinite regress

termina
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Causation outside time=> infinite regress

 

 

Hello there!

 

I went on the Q&A of W.Lane Craig's website. On the topic about "causality, time and God", WLC claims that causality can operate in atemporal state, but this raises the problem of the "before Universe" which doesn't exist outside time,

but WLC states that causality can be conceived differently: effects can be "simulatneous" with their cause (no delay between them both) this means that if a cause is eternal its effect would too. This seems consistent in atemporal state.

Thus God (atemporal) caused Universe at the same time it "begins",  to Craig.

 

On the other hand, God is described as causeless by WLC for He is outside time and has no beginning.

But isn't this a contradiction?

 

if we follow Craig's concept of  atemporal "simultaneous causation", then the cause of Universe can depend on another cause; since the latter is timelessly present, the former as well.

Then, in this case, we'd have a possible infinite regress of cause even outside time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Kavis
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"Outside" of time is an

"Outside" of time is an intellectually bankrupt idea,  and for the same reason as the related "outside" space.  Once you remove spatial and temporal directions by claiming god  is "outside", what does "outside" even mean?  Anyone who tries to make this claim is either admitting their God doesn't exist or admitting they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

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Fight the infection.


BobSpence
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I already was pretty sure

I already was pretty sure Craig had barely a nodding acquaintance with Logic - that just confirms it.

'Simultaneous' cause and effect? Makes no sense.

The whole "outside time and space" and so on are just ideas pulled out of their rear end to try and make the God concept work logically, a futile task.

 

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robj101
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We really just don't know,

We really just don't know, making guesses about god being outside time and space is as good or better than making god in the first place.

Faith is the word but next to that snugged up closely "lie's" the want.
"By simple common sense I don't believe in god, in none."-Charlie Chaplin


Atheistextremist
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Agreed

 

Christians make a lot of claims about events that take place outside the known universe - assertions that are utterly unprovable and that they crowbar into position using a knowledge gap. I used to think I was missing something when trying to argue against them on this stuff - it's pleasing on further contemplation to realise my position of insistent ignorance was the correct one after all

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


ubuntuAnyone
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termina wrote:...but WLC

termina wrote:

...but WLC states that causality can be conceived differently: effects can be "simulatneous" with their cause (no delay between them both) this means that if a cause is eternal its effect would too. This seems consistent in atemporal state.

Thus God (atemporal) caused Universe at the same time it "begins",  to Craig...

 

Atemporality is a tough thing to get one's head around....Our 3d-time-bound existence does really have a handle to grasp this concept....

To suggest something is "eternal" in a timeless state is meaningless. I think what Craig is trying to avoid is an infinite regress regardless of time in terms of logical antecedent events. He seems to think such things are impossible with or without time.

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.”