Cameron and Comfort vandalize the Origin of Species Nov. 19
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Hi,
If a similar thread has already been started, my apologies in advance. I'm happy to have my post moved there. I couldn't find one dedicated to this topic in my search, so here goes...
I'm sure many of you have heard of the plans being made by our old pals, Kirk "no transitional fossils" Cameron and Ray "banana guy" Comfort, to distribute 50,000 copies of Darwin's Origin of Species at some "top 50 universities" around the United States on November 19 of this year... great, right? Spreading knowledge for free? What cool guys! But wait, there's more! THIS version, THEIR version, will contain a 50-page introduction, written by Comfort himself, encouraging readers to consider "alternative theories" to evolution. Yes, that means creationism. Although I know of no copies of this introduction being leaked as of yet, their promotional video, widely available, indicates that it will rehash all the same, tired creationist chestnuts- "Evolution is 'just a theory'", "Hitler was an atheist," "Darwin was a christian," just to name a few.
Yeah.
This is, what some might call, "fractally wrong": wrong at every possible level of examination, only to reveal more wrongness the closer it is studied.
After hearing of this, I realized I have kept my atheism in the closet just about long enough. It's one thing to tolerate the Sunday morning traffic jams without raising a fuss- but I have a hard time with the idea of knowingly letting these jagoffs get away with vandalizing the foundational document of one of the most important advances in our understanding of the natural world. What if Richard Dawkins were to release and freely distribute to students a revision of the Holy Bible, with a 50 page "introduction" examining its well-documented contradictions and historical inaccuracies, followed by a list of its endorsements of everything from genocide, domestic violence, animal cruelty and homophobia, to rape, racism and slavery?
Well, my guess is that a lot would happen- but I doubt there'd be one christian group in the country that wouldn't be taking to the streets with pitchforks.
This attempt by Cameron and Comfort, to deliberately misinform, misrepresent, and flat-out lie to students should not be tolerated by anyone who even remotely cares about the advancement of rational thought and the proliferation of science. I began this topic in the hopes of culling ideas as to how best we can protest this desperate, but well-funded, affront to knowledge.
I am not an activist by nature. But this really, really pisses me off. Does anyone know of any protests, regional or national, online or off, against this event? How can we take the wind out of their sails? What's a self-respecting atheist to do?
Thanks for reading...
God: life viewed through the prism of fear.
Well, I would not mind getting a free book. Is there a website where it says where they are handing out the book?
As far as the whole “Darwin was Christian” thing, yes he was. Apparently, the people who deal this shit are not capable of reading wikipedia. He made his seminal observations while training to be a priest. FFS!
The Athropic Principal: Shit sucks, you are not special, deal with it.
So dude, you used a computer which runs on electricity that may well have come from a nuclear reactor to send your message down wires which were put in place by the phone/cable company so that they could make millions of dollars only to use the internet to tell us that you don't believe in science?
>>Is there a website where it says where they are handing out the book?
Their promo video only refers to "50 top universities and schools". I can find plenty of articles on the subject but haven't found any schools listed, or text from the to-be-released introduction.
>>As far as the whole “Darwin was Christian” thing, yes he was. Apparently, the people who deal this shit are not capable of reading wikipedia
Thanks for reading my post fully. I said that Cameron and Comfort were using standard creationist rhetoric, including "Darwin was a christian", to misrepresent, AND in some cases, outright lie. Discussing Darwin's christianity, in the context of creationism vs. evolution as they are (as many also do with his heavily debated death bed "repent" ) is a classic creationist attempt at misrepresenting Darwin as someone who may not have even believed his own theory, etc. etc. etc..
Whether or not Darwin was a christian, which he was, is irrelevant to the theory of evolution. Bringing it up in the context they do is an obvious manipulation of facts; an attempt to hoodwink people who may not know the whole story. And, imho, in matters of creationist rhetoric that tries to distort facts, a partial truth is a whole lie.
Thanks,
S
God: life viewed through the prism of fear.
50 page introduction, can easily be removed.
That is what exacto blades are for!
Personally, if I was given one, I'd tear the pages out on the spot and say "Here, I don't need this part, thanks for the book ;D"
Sons of bitches.
"What if Richard Dawkins were to release and freely distribute to students a revision of the Holy Bible, with a 50 page "introduction" examining its well-documented contradictions and historical inaccuracies, followed by a list of its endorsements of everything from genocide, domestic violence, animal cruelty and homophobia, to rape, racism and slavery?"
Exactly what I was thinking needs to be the response, though who writes it isn't important. The important thing is to hand them out at church Sunday mornings. Starting with theirs.
Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
LMMFAO.
Allegedly, Voltaire. Gracious.
OMGoodness. It hurts. They didn't even name him as the source. LOL.
Laughing at ignorance is completely acceptable in this situation, I believe.
According to the graph, they're at 175,000 books paid for.
You already have a good Answer.
Doing the same thing with the bible would take the wind out of their sails in no time. Plus it could possible garner media attention which I thing would be good for atheism over all. Plus if anyone gets mad about it you can point at them and say that they started it.
i know damn good and well that if most christians--fundy or "moderate"--including comfort could seize significant political power in the US the FIRST thing that would go out the window is the "gracious man's" principle. they would ban and burn books left and right, and i think history backs me up on this. god, i hate christians' selective idea of liberty.
You know, love is a happy time all throughout the universe. It's when the male part of the species goes to the female part of the species and says, "Hey, you want to go on a date?" And then she would say "Why, yes, I'd like to go on a date" if you're lucky. And then you go to a restaurant, and she gets something called a salad, and then he gets a big piece of beef, that he eats. And that to me, ladies and gentlemen, is love. Kinda makes you cry, doesn't it?
--Brak
Here is the original list:
1. Princeton University (NJ) http://www.princeton.edu
2. Harvard University (MA) http://www.college.harvard.edu
3. Yale University (CT) http://www.yale.edu
4. Stanford University (CA) http://www.stanford.edu
5. University of Pennsylvania (PA) http://www.upenn.edu
6. California Institute of Technology (CA) http://www.caltech.edu
7. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MA) http://web.mit.edu
8. Duke University (NC) http://www.duke.edu
9. Columbia University (NY) http://www.columbia.edu
10. University of Chicago (IL) http://www.uchicago.edu
11. Dartmouth College (NH) http://www.dartmouth.edu
12. Washington University in St. Louis (MO) http://www.wustl.edu
13. Cornell University (NY) http://www.cornell.edu
14. Brown University (RI) http://www.brown.edu
15. Northwestern University (IL) http://www.northwestern.edu
16. Johns Hopkins University (MD) http://www.jhu.edu
17. Rice University (TX) http://www.rice.edu
18. Emory University (GA) http://www.emory.edu
19. Vanderbilt University (TN) http://www.vanderbilt.edu
20. Notre Dame (IN) http://www.nd.edu
21. University of California - Berkeley (CA) We have this one.
22. Carnegie Mellon University (PA) http://www.cmu.edu
23. University of Virginia (VA) http://www.virginia.edu
24. Georgetown University (DC) http://www.georgetown.edu
25. University of California—Los Angeles (CA) http://www.ucla.edu
26. University of Michigan—Ann Arbor (MI) http://www.umich.edu
27. University of Southern California (CA) We have this one.
28. University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill (NC) http://www.unc.edu
29. Tufts University (MA) http://www.tufts.edu
30. Wake Forest University (NC) http://www.wfu.edu
31. Lehigh University (PA) http://www.lehigh.edu
32. Brandeis University (MA) http://www.brandeis.edu
33. College of William and Mary (VA) http://www.wm.edu
34. New York University (NY) http://www.nyu.edu
35. University of Rochester (NY) http://www.rochester.edu
36. Georgia Institute of Technology (GA) http://www.gatech.edu
37. Boston College (MA) http://www.uiuc.edu
38. University of Wisconsin—Madison (WI) http://www.wisc.edu
39. University of California—San Diego (CA) http://www.ucsd.edu
40. University of Illinois—Urbana - Champaign (IL) http://www.illinois.edu
41. Case Western Reserve University (OH) http://www.case.edu
42. University of Washington (WA) http://www.washington.edu
43. University of California—Davis (CA) http://www.ucdavis.edu
44. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY) http://www.rpi.edu
45. University of Texas—Austin (TX) http://www.utexas.edu
46. University of California—Santa Barbara (CA) http://www.ucsb.edu
47. University of California—Irvine (CA) http://www.uci.edu
48. Penn State University—University Park (PA) http://www.psu.edu
49. University of Florida (FL) http://www.ufl.edu
50. Syracuse University (NY) http://www.syr.edu
Rumor has it, it has been expanded to 100 schools, however. Many student groups on various college campuses are doing sometime in response - including tabling and setting up their own speakers on evolution.
"Follow the Rational Response Squad @ George Mason University on Twitter!"
Did they attempt to flush it down a toilet and use the pages for TP? Or role them up and use it to soke doobies?
That's what some folks do with Korans and Bibles...
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
So, indeed - it wouldn't have to be written by Dawkins- although he's someone that really gets their bloomers in a twist, and would make more of an impact than coming from someone with no literary clout. Like me. Others have suggested similar things on YouTube, like Thunderf00t and ZomGitsCriss. The best I could muster would maybe be a table in the UCLA commissary or parking lot, with 50 Kinko's copies and a hand-painted sign, which everyone would walk by and ask, "and you are...?" And at the end of the day I'd take my 49 undistributed copies home and build a nightstand with them, and realize I could've bought new tires for my car and gotten more mileage.
If it's gonna have any effect, it would need to come from, at least, an organization with some notoriety, with at least some history of getting in creationism's face. Like, well, if had the endorsement of the RRS behind it, it might go somewhere.
Anyone care to begin collaboration on the introduction?
God: life viewed through the prism of fear.
My university is on the list.
Edit: When are they distributing them? I want to pick one up. Free book!
I think this is a good thing. Creationists will waste their money, and some people might learn more about biology.
Seriously, what kind of an impact would a 50 page introduction written by Ray Comfort have on almost any student or staff vs. the origin of species itself? The people at these universities are a lot smarter than Comfort; Comfort would flunk out of most of these universities. If he employs all the strawmen that he usually throws around, any intelligent reader should be able to figure out that he's either intentionally lying, never read the book or is just a complete dumbass.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. - Marcus Aurelius
When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion. - Abraham Lincoln
The response to this should be laughter. Of course, I'm sure many people are laughing. Taking their bible and writing a 50 page intro just doesn't too good an idea. See it this way: I don't worship the words in Darwin's book, they do worship their bible or at least the creatures it talks about. Could they possibly turn around on anyone with a prefaced bible and somehow make their stance on evolution look more legit or make their bible look more legit for it? A kind of strange tu quoque? I can imagine this. I hate dealing with these people or their ilk. If we ignore them and their lame attempts at making something of themselves and their idiocy, won't they just fade into irrelevance where they belong? It just seems that giving them any attention keeps them around longer.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Considering they get attention whether we acknowledge their activities or not, and that we are still outnumbered 1000 to 1, I think ignoring the opposition is the worst thing we can do. Never underestimate your opposition or their tactics.
Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Like complete fucking idiots should be afforded them. The Hitler connection - the lack of intermediate forms - Darwin's christianity (and his alleged racism) all of which are brought up (hurled up) in this 50-page forward are the antithesis of all reasonable thought. It's funny christians feel the 150-year old Origins is the latest word on evolution. I guess that when compared to their withered dogma it's still the new kid on the block.
For god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Satan that whosoever believeth in him should not only perish but have everlasting death...
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Ouch. My chest hurts.
THIS is probably closest to the truth.
After all, they've been trying to teach their kind the same book for hundreds of years with no luck.
The Kirk Cameron Action Kit - watch more funny videos
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
I only recently stumbled across Kirk Cameron with that silly kiwi preacher Ray Comfort on uTube. So that's what you were all talking about! What a pair of tools.
If you were wondering, there was a revival of christian fundamentalism in New Zealand in the 1970s (my Dad loved it - we lived there) and it's still echoing around the globe.
Australia is tortured by dozens of these painful men and they're all kiwis.
It fascinates me to watch Comfort's style. The key to him and his kind is that he's a natural bully and the bullshit just pours out of him and covers everything. There is a brand of christianity
that depends on gush factor. Just keep repeating the same crap forever and it will be true!
I'm endlessly fascinated by people who believe the bible is 100 per cent true. Never mind the ambiguity of interpretation - it's just the perfect word of the lord.
And it's hard to combat geysers of bullshit - the truth is a complex business and the atheist position of being open to any possibility is just another toehold for the whitehats of jesus.
Even if the concept of the pursuit of truth was openBSD these plugholes would still find a way in.
For god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Satan that whosoever believeth in him should not only perish but have everlasting death...
I've been at a loss as to how to do anything directly. Now that they've passed out the book, the folks on YouTube are jumping on it- Thunderf00t et al. All I've been able to do about this so far is read as much as I can. I never would've guessed that the christian right would take so little to go this insane.
I'd love to know how the books are being received, whether there are any debates taking place at these campuses...
God: life viewed through the prism of fear.
When I took one away (to save at least one mind from delusion), the conversation went like this:
WOTMslave: The introduction is the only thing worth reading. I don't like the rest of it.
Me: (laughing) Well, maybe if you read a version that wasn't missing four chapters instead of this one...
I left him with a puzzled look and went on to Theatre History.
“Men become civilized not in proportion to their willingness to believe but in proportion to their readiness to doubt” - H.L. Mencken
Lmao, nice!
Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Thanks, I was surprised IU-Bloomington made their list.
“Men become civilized not in proportion to their willingness to believe but in proportion to their readiness to doubt” - H.L. Mencken
Kirk Cameron takes his dog and pony show to UCLA and gets owned: And gets recorded by TMZ in the process.
www.tmz.com/2009/11/24/kirk-cameron-mauled-by-a-bruin-in-darwin-fight/
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell