Help With Health Care
Offline This is from a blog I've posted on Mypazz regarding the health care debate. Please spread the love.
Hi, my name is Zack and I'm an American. I'm sure you're aware of our current debate regarding health care here in the states. What we have is a humanitarian crisis going down in the worlds richest nation and it's a damn shame. I'm sending this out as a call to arms from our friends around the world. I'm fed up with the lies and misinformation being spread by conservatives in the media and here on Myspace, so <a href=http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=42589200&blogId=506967125>I've created an open forum on my blog</a> for people from countries with "evil" national health coverage to share their stories of how they feel about it. I'm interested in hearing about what the quality of care is like. What it means for your financial security. What it means for your personal freedom. Do you feel that because you have socialized medicine your country is slipping into totalitarianism? Do you feel this makes you more free because you don't have to stay at a job you hate to keep your coverage or don't have to fear bakruptcy if you get sick?
If you could please share the stories of yourself, your friends and your loved ones and invite them to speak for themselves, it would be greatly appreciated by millions of Americans who find them selves on the losing end of this corrupt and parasitic private insurance industry.
Please be sure to leave lots of kudos so that this blog can be bumped to the top of the "Most Popular Blogs" list and your story can be read by more people.
Thanks.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
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Have you considered that maybe we had the number one economy in the world might just be because we didn't have socialism? That individualism and freedom to choose what we want to buy is best for the economy? I don't think we're all that rich anymore since entitlement programs like Medicaid have bankrupted the government.
If we have such a humanitarian crisis as you claim, why do our borders have to keep people out instead of keep people in?
If people bought their own insurance instead of depending on their employer we would not have this problem. So we should have more individualism and less dependence on employers.
A big problem is employers lure workers with a promise of health insurance. This insurance is often of inferior quality because the individual does not get to decide what coverages they want. The employer buys the cheapest insurance they can which often does not cover what the individual really would want to have covered.
Then don't buy their products. Then start a non-profit co-op to provide coverage. Or start your own insurance company if it's so easy for insurance companies to make easy money.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Careful with those willful displays of ignorance, EXC.
You could hurt somebody.
I'm sure somewhere you can find some extremist to agree with you that health care is a luxury.
It doesn't make it true, though. And your continued parroting of the same things is really boring, especially when every point you just made (again) was already discussed in the other thread.
At least the rest of us take comfort that while there are crazies out there like you, they are in a steadily shrinking minority. No matter how much FOX you watch, or Rush you listen to.
Theism is why we can't have nice things.
Please enlighten me then. Since we have a "humanitarian crisis", why don't we just give a one way ticket out of the country to all the people that are horrified to live with all this human misery, so they can escape. Then we let in an immigrant that is happy to come here and work to pay for his/her own health care. Then we'd have no more bitching about the "humanitarian crisis", problem solved, right? Why wouldn't this work?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
This is why USA is currently the most influential country in the world. Not a divine right whatsoever.
By the way, I'm starting to be irritated by the argument of Joseph Vissarion Stalin was a socialist, therefore socialism is evil. This is the same as Josif Vissarion Stalin was an atheist, therefore atheism is evil.
Capitalism is a game. Human lives and minimal well-being should NOT be dependent on a game. People should have the right to not participate on the capricious game of capitalism. Their basic needs should be taken care of as a basic human right. And who should pay for it? The winners of the capitalistic game! The rich winners will take the burden of care for their fellow human beings, and the losers will be saved by the social safety net, so they will be able to get up and start playing again. This will have a result of a big middle class, because it would have a better than minimal level of living, but also not a big social burden. Here, everyone recall with love and nostalgia the times, when the middle class was strong.
Beings who deserve worship don't demand it. Beings who demand worship don't deserve it.
I really don't concern myself with meaningless crap like being number one. I'm more concerned with what works. Life is not a race.
It's a slow motion crisis. For the most part it's out of site out of mind for a lot of people.
You say that individuality is the best way to insure lower prices through competition. I call bull shit. I buy and sell various metals for a living. If I call a supplier for one length of 1.000" dia. round bar their unit price will be significantly higher than the price on 100 lengths. Why? Because it takes roughly the same amount of labor to process one length as it does 100. If I need enough of a hard to find item I can go to the mill, but they're not about to fire up the furnaces for twenty feet of steel for the very same reason.
One person on their own does not have the purchasing power to negotiate a reasonable price for themselves. That's why most people get their insurance through their employers. Plus there's that inconvenient part about how insurers won't cover most people looking to buy on their own.
Right. I'll do that. While I'm at it I'll construct a cell tower out on my porch because I don't much care for cell phone carriers either.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
Or....or....this is some mind blowingly radical shit.....wait for it.....we could fix it. Holy shit. It felt good to say that....I think I came in my pants a little bit.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
Don't mind Exc, he's our resident irrational capitalist. He's been completely owned on the subject by myself in at least 5 different topics, and most everyone else has at least contributed to the same, but he's a broken record. In short, he's one of the lying conservatives you mention in your first post.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Can we all just shhht about health care its gotten really old reading the same thing in 5 differant threads, all posted by the same people, all saying the same thing.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
I'm familiar with his work, if not for the statements he's made then because it's the same crap people of conservative bent are always spouting off.
However, if you would be so kind as to click over to my blog and give your two cents I'd really appreciate it. The bullshit is pretty thick over on Myspace and I'm hoping to cut through some of it with some first hand accounts.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
I shall stop by briefly later today or tomorrow at the latest. I rarely log in to myspace, so I'll have to recall my password first, but it'll come to me.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Thanks.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
Then why the big rush for socialized medicine if it's so slow? When more people want to leave than come to the USA, then consider making big changes.
But if you have 100 individuals each buying a 1" bar. The labor the savings are there same as having the government buy the bars for them.
And if what you are saying is true, why not do this for auto insurance? Why not have the government ration our grocieries, clothes, cars, etc... for us?
Sure you do, go on to Ebay sometime. They buyers and sellers are individuals. We don't need the government to buy beenie babies for us to get the savings, neither do we for healthcare.
It's kind of a scam that employers use to keep wages low. They use health insurance benefits to keep employees from leaving and starting their own competing business. There should be a law that employees can opt out of the health insurance benefits and get cash instead.
Pay them enought money they will. Why is this not a problem with auto insurance?
Why not? There pleanty of web sites that tell you how to build your own cell tower. For the first cell towers to be built, so individual had to decide to build one. Why not you you?
Why not start a non-profit health co-op in your community then? If you need money to start it, just go to a bank and show them the evidence of the obsence profits of medical insurance companies, then just say you only need a little bit of money to start compiting with them as a non-profit. Should be no problem to get a loan with all this overwhelmeing evidence of massive insurance company profits.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Then why the big rush for socialized medicine if it's so slow? When more people want to leave than come to the USA, then consider making big changes.
But if you have 100 individuals each buying a 1" bar, the labor the savings are there same as having the government buy the bars for them.
And if what you are saying is true, why not do this for auto insurance? Why not have the government ration our grocieries, clothes, cars, etc... for us?
Sure you do, go on to Ebay sometime. The buyers and sellers are individuals. We don't need the government to buy beenie babies in bulk for us to get the savings, neither do we for healthcare.
It's kind of a scam that employers use to keep wages low. They use health insurance benefits to keep employees from leaving and starting their own competing business. There should be a law that employees can opt out of the health insurance benefits and get cash instead.
Pay them enought money they will. Why is this not a problem with auto insurance?
Why not? There pleanty of web sites that tell you how to build your own cell tower. For the first cell towers to be built, so individual had to decide to build one. Why not you you? And do we need the government to run the cell phone business to get the savings as well?
Why not start a non-profit health co-op in your community then? If you need money to start it, just go to a bank and show them the evidence of the obsence profits of medical insurance companies, then just say you only need a little bit of money to start compiting with them as a non-profit. Should be no problem to get a loan with all this overwhelmeing evidence of massive insurance company profits.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Do you by a new car because the seat is a little uncomfatable or do you just get a better seat? People won't leave America because there is one thing they don't like about it. No country in the world is perfect.
Also do you wait until you brakes have failed before you change them or do you get it sorted before they fail? Think about it. You want to sort out problems before they become major.
Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
No animal shall wear clothes.
No animal shall sleep in a bed.
No animal shall drink alcohol.
No animal shall kill any other animal.
All animals are equal.
"Sure you do, go on to Ebay sometime. The buyers and sellers are individuals. We don't need the government to buy beenie babies in bulk for us to get the savings, neither do we for healthcare."
Yes, they are INDIVIDUALS competing against INDIVIDUALS for COMMODITIES. There are few if any SERVICES or CORPORATIONS, so your analogy is flawed and irrelevant.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
"Pay them enought money they will. Why is this not a problem with auto insurance?"
Duh, there's a little thing called laws. They force everyone to have insurance, and force the companies to both accept customers and pay out when they are supposed to.
There's also the apparently not so obvious fact that more people are driving right now than there are receiving medical treatment. On the order of tens of thousands to one. That number has always been and will always be consistant.
But I don't expect you to understand 2 + 2.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Wrong. We can't always anticipate that a bunch of people will purchase the same product all at once and even if we could it would still require a hundred separate order sheets, invoices, and transactions of funds vs one order sheet, one trip to the rack for material, one load being placed on one vehicle for transport, one invoice and one transaction.
Yeah my bank is going to loan me the millions if not billions it would take to start an insurance company with my '99 Mazda Protege and XBOX 360 for collateral.
"Faith, Faith is an island in the setting sun,
but proof, proof is the bottom line for everyone."
Proof, Paul Simon
Nothing this hard should taste so beefy.
So under socialized medicine the government still has to do all this. Look at medicaid, we spend tons of money on paperwork and we still get ripped off. Why wouldn't a nationwide non-profit co-op have exactly the same savings as government?
How does Wal-Mart manage to deliver it's products and keep it customers coming back. Do we do need the government to take over Wal-Mart, Target, etc.. to get this 'savings' that only come from a government take-over?
Don't need collateral if your business plan is sound. All you need to do is present the evidence that insurance companies are making obscene profits while providing lousy service. There are pleanty of venture capitalist that would love to get in on all this easy money. It would not take millions, just find about 100 people in your community that want coverage, find a good lawyer to write contracts, find a hospital willing to perform the services.
If your theory about insurance companies is correct, you'll provide good coverage and still make a profit. People will hear about this and then you can go nationwide, pay back your loan easy. Humanitarian crisis solved. Vaset has the same theory about insurance companies, perhaps he'd be interested in becoming filthy rich and proving that I'm full of shit at the same time as well.
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
Not everyone that has a car is getting it repaired from an accident either. This is no explaination at all.
Sure you get savings when you buy in bulk. So Wal-mart and Target buy in bulk from Proctor and Gamble, then they sell to individuals. The savings are passed on by effiecient retailers competiting against one another. Basic economics. You still completely fail to explain why health care is different. You have retailers and wholesalers same as any business.
OK Mr. Whiz, if Canada keeps selling it's natural resourse to pay for 'free' medical services, how long before your country is stripped clean of all resources and the government goes broke?
Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen
"Not everyone that has a car is getting it repaired from an accident either. This is no explaination at all."
So what? That's not even what insurance is for! Failure to refute.
You give more commodities as examples, proving you don't get it. Failure to refute.
Well Mr. "Whiz", Canada has been delivering "free" healthcare for decades now, and it hasn't hurt us at all in the pocketbook. We spend half what you do per person, so you'll be going bankrupt twice as fast as we will. Faster even, since we don't spend ridiculous amounts on military projects that work 5% of the time on a good day.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.