Were there more people killed during the Crusades and Inqusition than Hitler killed ?

Ken G.
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Were there more people killed during the Crusades and Inqusition than Hitler killed ?

I was reading an essay about heretics and heresy and the author claimed that the catholic church burned over 9 million women at the stake for witchcraft,what's your take on this number ?  

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No idea. I know that Hitler doing "the lords work" (according to him in Mein Kampf) didn't result in nearly as many casualties as most of the historically recent genocides. It just happens to be the most recent infamous one.

 

Purging of the Native Americans for example, killed many more people.

 

 

Still, looking through wikipedia gave me an interesting idea of how much the Nazis at the time would get along with mainstream conservatives in the US today.

 

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In 1936, Heinrich Himmler, Chief of the SS, created the "Reich Central Office for the Combating of Homosexuality and Abortion."

 

More than one million gay German men were targeted, of whom at least 100,000 were arrested and 50,000 were serving prison terms as convicted gay men. Hundreds of European gay men living under Nazi occupation were castrated under court order.

Some persecuted under these laws would not have identified themselves as gay. Such "anti-homosexual" laws were widespread throughout the western world until the 1960s and 1970s, so many gay men did not feel safe to come forward with their stories until the 1970s when many so-called "sodomy laws" were repealed.

----

 

 

Isn't that sweet.

 

 

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 The issue here is

 The issue here is obviously time.  It isn't hard to figure out that something in operation for centuries  like the Inquisition could potentially claim more lives than something that lasted a few years.  The reason so many died at Auschwitz and the other camps is industrialization of the process of murder.  Keep in mind that the institution of the Endlosung or the Final Solution was not announced to the men who would administer it until the winter of 1942.  Lots of people had died before that point, obviously, but the killing ratcheted up to a ridiculous speed in the following months.  

Some extremist Protestants (of the Jack Chick/Ian Paisley bent) will tell you that almost 70 million people in Europe died as a result of the various Inquistions.  While we should obviously doubt this figure, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised by 9 million when we total up all the supposed witches and heretics murdered in Europe from the institution of Christianity in Western Europe to the 19th century.

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Well, I have always

Well, I have always found this one to be annoying. People love to bandy about the concept that Hitler killed six million...

 

OK, now tell me what he killed six million of?

 

People? No. He may have killed six million Jews. Not into holocaust denial over here. That being said, he also killed a whole crap load of other people who were also considered to be a problem. I don't think that we will ever really know just how many PEOPLE he killed. But the six million figure seems to come up over and over.

 

As an exercise, let me suggest that there are jewish homosexuals. Some of them were killed not because they were jews but because they were gay. Should they be counted towards the total?

 

OK, I probably sound like A. nony moose on this one but if jews were considered subhuman and jews don't make a huge deal over the non-jew deaths, what does that say about the Negroes, Gypsies and Mentally ill who were also killed by the millions?

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Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

OK, now tell me what he killed six million of?

 

----- 

 

OK, I probably sound like A. nony moose on this one but if jews were considered subhuman and jews don't make a huge deal over the non-jew deaths, what does that say about the Negroes, Gypsies and Mentally ill who were also killed by the millions?

 

 

Call me a Holocaust minimalist, but i always bought into the 6millionish to be the extermination of all Hitlers "undesireables"

 

How many millions of blacks do you think Hitler killed? cant be that high of a number, as i never hear black-supremesists complain about it...

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

People? No. He may have killed six million Jews. Not into holocaust denial over here. That being said, he also killed a whole crap load of other people who were also considered to be a problem. I don't think that we will ever really know just how many PEOPLE he killed. But the six million figure seems to come up over and over.

11 to 17 million PEOPLE.  Not exact, but certainly higher than that 6 million figure.

Quote:
As an exercise, let me suggest that there are jewish homosexuals. Some of them were killed not because they were jews but because they were gay. Should they be counted towards the total?
We know that the Nazis kept very good books.  They knew very well who was and who was not Jewish, to very specific degrees.  Testiment to that is how many Jews did end up getting killed.  If there were a gay jew, I would find it difficult to believe that he was killed for being gay rather than for being a jew.  Not that it couldn't happen, but it's certainly easier to have hidden being gay rather than being a jew (any record fo his family or his birth record would ahve implicated him).

Quote:
OK, I probably sound like A. nony moose on this one but if jews were considered subhuman and jews don't make a huge deal over the non-jew deaths, what does that say about the Negroes, Gypsies and Mentally ill who were also killed by the millions?
Undesireables?  Well, the first concentration camp opened in March, 1933 and homosexuals started being 'purged' February, 1933.  The overlooked deaths is just the sad part of it.  It says more about the rest of the world than it does about the rest of the deaths.  I guess they're less important.  They're certainly not recounted as often as we hear the number of murdered Jews.

But, going back to the OP, what does it matter during which era more people were killed?  Perhaps 9 million were killed at various times during different inquisitions and such.  Certainly more than 9 million were systematically executed during the Holocaust.  Meh.  The comparison just doesn't seem relevant.

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Answers in Gene Simmons

Answers in Gene Simmons wrote:

OK, I probably sound like A. nony moose on this one but if jews were considered subhuman and jews don't make a huge deal over the non-jew deaths, what does that say about the Negroes, Gypsies and Mentally ill who were also killed by the millions?

 

Holy shit!  Did you just actually say "Negroes"?  That is awesome!  Sen. Sessions, is that you??

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well from this site

well from this site http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/The_Holocaust_-_Death_toll/id/5324946

  • 5.1–6.0 million Jews, including 3.0–3.5 million Polish Jews[16]
  • 1.8 –1.9 million Gentile Poles (includes all those killed in executions or those that died in prisons, labor, and concentration camps, as well as civilians killed in the 1939 invasion and the 1944 Warsaw Uprising)[17]
  • 200,000–800,000 Roma & Sinti
  • 200,000–300,000 people with disabilities
  • 10,000–25,000 homosexual men
  • 2,000 Jehovah's Witnesses

is their numbers for the holocaust and from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Jews 5.9 million

Soviet POWs 2–3 million

Ethnic Poles 1.8–2 million

Romani 220,000–1,500,000

Disabled 200,000–250,000

Homosexuals 5,000–15,000

Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500–5,000

however the exact numbers will never be known, however the major difference between Hitler and of course the church is technology. Had the chuch had the capability for using bombs, various gas poisons etc, etc, etc, then their murder/kill numbers would have been much higher. However they lacked that type of technology. They probably would have killed off the entire muslim religion if possible, and with that the jews as well.


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latincanuck wrote:Jehovah's

latincanuck wrote:

Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500–5,000

 

HA! HA!

 

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Ken G. wrote:I was reading

Ken G. wrote:

I was reading an essay about heretics and heresy and the author claimed that the catholic church burned over 9 million women at the stake for witchcraft,what's your take on this number ?  

I dont know how the author came up with that number; I guess he/she is trying to convey the monstrosity of the huge number of people unjustifiably killed in the name of something that deluded men believed in as an excuse to pillage, killing and rape at will.
 

It would have been a more powerful essay if he/she provide a source.

 

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Ken G. wrote:I was reading

Ken G. wrote:

I was reading an essay about heretics and heresy and the author claimed that the catholic church burned over 9 million women at the stake for witchcraft,what's your take on this number ?  

The number of 9 million is a gross exaggeration. According to many web sites and books the likely number is from 50,000 to 200,000.

See here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_burn.htm

You can also just Google The Burning Times yourself.

 

*Edit* See this link which attempts to understand where the 9 million number came from.

http://www.twpt.com/burning.htm

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Crusades

All the numbers I come across is around 1 to 4 million killed depending on what you are counting as the crusades and which ones, total is about 4 million however, there were more killed during the fall of rome from 3rd to the 5th century (about 9 million) and this is more due to christians destroying pagan temples, heretics etc, etc, etc which leds to the Holy Roman Empire, than the crusades, now if you want to get all the religious persecutions throughout the world due to christianity or in wars that christianity/catholic church were involved with or due to religious superstition the number gets high.

Lets see

Witch hunts about 50,000

Spanish Inquisition about 32000

French wars of religion (Catholics church vs protestants) 2 - 4 million

Thirty Year war (began with conflicts between the Protestants and Cathlic Churst) estimated about 7.5 million

Jews being killed as scapegoats for the black plague 8000 to 13000

opposition to the church 2 million saxons and scandanavians

Saracen slaughters in Spain. 7 million

so it just goes on and on,

 


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There were certainly a

There were certainly a number of 'regular' Germans killed as well. How many citizens and soldiers were executed for disobeying or refusing the draft? There had to be some at least. More likely many.

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aiia wrote:a more powerful essay if he/she provide a source

  Yes,I agree. Here are a few of her sources,O I forgot to mention her name it's Barbara G Walker,she writes in the monthly newspaper,put out by the Freedom From Religion Foundation,the paper is called FreeThought Today. OK back to her sources and there are over 70 of them,here's a few ~ Vicars for Christ:The Dark Side of the Papacy,Treason Against God:A History of the Offense of Blasphemy,Pagans and Christan's,The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets,The Fear of Women,Witchcraft in the Middle Ages,The Inquisition of the Middle Ages,Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology,Man and his Gods,Medieval and Modern Christianity,The Spanish Inquisition,Saharasia,etc.I hope that I can post this one,my computer keeps freezing up,I typed out more in my last reply ,but the computer froze before I could post it.   

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Vastet wrote:There were

Vastet wrote:
There were certainly a number of 'regular' Germans killed as well. How many citizens and soldiers were executed for disobeying or refusing the draft? There had to be some at least. More likely many.

Of course there were, however this is more or less those that died in the concentration camps or as prisoners of war. Regular germans would have died as traitors of Germany.


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I see an inescapable link

I see an inescapable link between them, since many would have been killed for not participating in the slaughter.

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Ken G. wrote:  Yes,I

Ken G. wrote:

  Yes,I agree. Here are a few of her sources,O I forgot to mention her name it's Barbara G Walker,she writes in the monthly newspaper,put out by the Freedom From Religion Foundation,the paper is called FreeThought Today. OK back to her sources and there are over 70 of them,here's a few ~ Vicars for Christ:The Dark Side of the Papacy,Treason Against God:A History of the Offense of Blasphemy,Pagans and Christan's,The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets,The Fear of Women,Witchcraft in the Middle Ages,The Inquisition of the Middle Ages,Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology,Man and his Gods,Medieval and Modern Christianity,The Spanish Inquisition,Saharasia,etc.I hope that I can post this one,my computer keeps freezing up,I typed out more in my last reply ,but the computer froze before I could post it.   

Ken, I don't know if others have brought this up, but could you please start spacing your text correctly?  It's difficult to follow your logic when your commas run into your words.  You could also use fewer commas and reduce the run-on sentences, but I'm willing to take things one step at a time.

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Ken G. wrote:

I was reading an essay about heretics and heresy and the author claimed that the catholic church burned over 9 million women at the stake for witchcraft,what's your take on this number ?  

 

This is part of the British 'Black Legend'. The British murdered more Roman Catholics than the Muslim Crusades  & Spanish Muslim Inquisitions.

This has been one of the most blatant lies contrived by the acts of taqiyya.