change my view

mcap
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change my view

 Hello,I am a former atheist who now believes in God.I have only been a believer for 5 months.I would like to challenge anyone on this site to prove to me that there is no God and I will go back to my atheist ways.Due to the relatively short length of time It should be pretty easy right?ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE?


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mcap wrote: Hello,I am a

mcap wrote:

 Hello,I am a former atheist who now believes in God.

Boy, we've never heard that one before.

 

mcap wrote:

ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE?

Come on, it's Memorial Day weekend. I'm ready to fire up the grill and drink a beer, but that's about it. Call back next week.

 

Nobody I know was brainwashed into being an atheist.

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Which God?I'm assuming you

Which God?

I'm assuming you don't believe in Santa Claus, Zues or Flying Spaghetti Monster. Just write out your proof of why these don't exist. Then use a word processor to replace 'your god' with these entities. You will have the proof.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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Hi   How old are

Hi

 

 

 

How old are you?

 

Why were you atheist?

 

Pepsi or Coke?

 

What changed your mind?

 

What side of the canoe do you paddle on?


 

 


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"...atheist ways"And tell us

"...atheist ways"

And tell us what those are, please.

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Quick!ineed50cc'sofspacebar!s

Quick!ineed50cc'sofspacebar!stat!


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It's a joke ,right !

 I too have never met a former atheist. Do you believe in the Science's ,like space,biology etc. Did you fall and hit your head.Lets put the question back in your court,why do you believe in a god.   

Signature ? How ?


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Hello, welcome to the

Hello, welcome to the forum.

mcap wrote:

Hello,I am a former atheist who now believes in God.I have only been a believer for 5 months.I would like to challenge anyone on this site to prove to me that there is no God and I will go back to my atheist ways.

- All definitions of God are impossible and incoherent.

- There is not enough evidence.

Quote:
Due to the relatively short length of time It should be pretty easy right?

Convincing someone to change their beliefs is never easy.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:Hello,

butterbattle wrote:

Hello, welcome to the forum.

mcap wrote:

Hello,I am a former atheist who now believes in God.I have only been a believer for 5 months.I would like to challenge anyone on this site to prove to me that there is no God and I will go back to my atheist ways.

- All definitions of God are impossible and incoherent.

- There is not enough evidence.

Quote:
Due to the relatively short length of time It should be pretty easy right?

Convincing someone to change their beliefs is never easy.

 

Butter, I'm pleased to read your signature.  Yours is one of the first reasonable and mature posts I've read so far.  I'm not sure what Marcus Aurelius considers living a good life is, however.  Such considerations prevent me from abandoning my faith (truth being relative).

 

OP:  Welcome back to faith!  However, beware of feeling invinceable. 

 

Peace~


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mcap wrote: Hello,I am a

mcap wrote:

 Hello,I am a former atheist who now believes in God.I have only been a believer for 5 months.I would like to challenge anyone on this site to prove to me that there is no God and I will go back to my atheist ways.Due to the relatively short length of time It should be pretty easy right?ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE?

What is the name of your magical hero in the sky? What are the atributes of claimed magical super hero?

 

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Hmm was just about to

Hmm was just about to sacrifice a little christian baby to Satan (yes I know Dawkins doesnt approve of calling a child christian) then I read your posting about finding god.

Then it all made sense, the lord spoke to me and I havent left church for a week now confessing my sins.

Shit knew there was something I forgot where did i leave the baby!


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 Welcome mcap.  Hopefully

 Welcome mcap.  Hopefully your stay here will be an amicable one and your exchanges with your fellow posters here will be stimulating and thought provoking without being too emotionally charged ( we are unfortunately discussing a lot of touchy subjects here on this forum )

  I personally have no interest in accepting some kind of challenge in attempting to break your new-found faith.  I am simply a former Christian who has, after twenty five years of religious devotion, since abandoned my faith.

  Funny thing, when I was about 14, if you would have suggested to me that I would eventually become a Christian I would have shook my head and said "No f**king way, Dude !"  Well at age 15  I accepted Christ as my saviour when my Dad ( R.I.P. ) and I knelt down in my bedroom and he led me in the sinner"s prayer.  Well, so much for me thinking I would never make the jump to becoming a Christian.

   I remained firmly entrenched within my faith for many years, through highs and lows ( lots and lots of lows ) but I never even once considered that I might be mistaken about the validity of my Christian faith and my belief in God.  If someone were to have suggested to me that at some future date ( in my mid forties ) I would completely abandon my faith in God I would said "Perish the thought ! That will never happen ! "

  Well without the slightest personal participation from any "wicked " atheists, liberal theologans or outside personal influences of any kind my faith began to crumble. 

  My religious foundation was partially based upon the acclaimed atributes of Biblical inerrancy; well I investigated some of the skeptic websites to see what they had to say about the subject and the more I investigated the more shaken and disturbed I became. 

  Of course I retreated back to the theories of Christian apologists ( eg, Norman Giesler ) to read their counter-arguments but the quality of their replies was so completely speculative and based upon hopeful conjecture that I was now even further disturbed.

  Anyway, long story short, it was actually myself, ...in the end I was the defacto executioner of my religious beliefs.  Not anyone else. My own investigation into my belief system, which involved sifting through both pro and con arguments, is what led to my becoming an atheist.  No one could have forced me to abandon my faith but sometimes having an open mind can lead to destinations that you thought you would never encounter.

 Cheers.

I'm a right wing atheist because I enjoy being hated by everyone.

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Just a reminder that this is

Just a reminder that this is in the "Kill 'em with kindness" section. So ... the bit about Satan, and talk about gods as "magical" might be a little insensitive for this section.

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mrjonno wrote: (yes I know

mrjonno wrote:

 

(yes I know Dawkins doesnt approve of calling a child christian)

 

 

? Why?

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mcap wrote: Hello,I am a

mcap wrote:

 Hello,I am a former atheist who now believes in God.I have only been a believer for 5 months.I would like to challenge anyone on this site to prove to me that there is no God and I will go back to my atheist ways.Due to the relatively short length of time It should be pretty easy right?ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE?

Perhaps you mistook Atheism for Anti-Theism.

I've no personal interest in changing your belief in whatever you call god, and it
should be rather obvious from the responses that other Atheists feel similarly.

If you want to debate the existence of god with me, then you will need to debste that in another thread.


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Lol...I hope this isn't too

Lol...

I hope this isn't too insensitive for this forum, but if you're asking people to disprove God's existence so you can go back to being an atheist, then you don't believe in God. If a person was connected to a Deity in such a way they REALLY believed it existed, they would never turn away unless they really didn't believe. Logically, it would be like asking us to send you to hell...doesn't make any sense.

If you were to say this is simply a challenge and this forum will not change your belief, either way, then I would be convinced you're really not satisfied with your religious life, anyway. If you believe and understand God's plan, you would be doing missionary work not picking fights with Atheists. This thread is obviously for attention and you're either lying about finding God, or (and I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings), you're doing a shitty job as one of God's children.

What I find especially disturbing is your comment about how you've only been religious for a relatively short length of time so it should be easy to convert you back. You're either being serious (which means you're lying about finding God), cocky, or sarcastic. None of which sounds very aspiring for someone who just gave their life to God.

Your challenge is about as credible as a suicide threat. Not taking the bait.


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SSBBJunky wrote:mrjonno

SSBBJunky wrote:

mrjonno wrote:

 

(yes I know Dawkins doesnt approve of calling a child christian)

 

 

? Why?

A child (up to a point) can't make that decision for him/herself so shopuldn't be stuck with a label.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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Last night sealed it for me.

Last night sealed it for me. I got to the point where my life was so much of a mess that God was my last hope. I prayed the Sinner's prayer. Supposedly this is the one prayer God is guaranteed to answer positively.

I got nothing.

Either:

1. I've crossed the line to where God can't get me.
2. God may not have considered the prayer sincere enough.

3. God is a jerk.

 

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 With a couple of notable

 With a couple of notable exceptions, I am not prone to trying to convince individuals to be atheists.  All I can do is put information out there, and people will either believe it or not.  In your case, I'll be perfectly honest.  I don't think I believe you.  I could be wrong, of course, and perhaps you can help me understand if I am, but here are the problems I have with your story:

1) If you really do believe in god, why do you want to be convinced not to believe?  Do you believe in an evil god?  Are you unhappy with your new belief?  It seems more likely to me that you are not really a former atheist -- at least, you never made a conscious and informed decision that there was no god -- and that you thought you could elicit a more emotional response by claiming to be a former atheist.  After all, look what happened when Anthony Flew became a deist!

2) Your post seems to be quite confrontational.  That is, you're looking for a fight.  Why?  Are you interested in real knowledge or would you rather just win an argument?  If you'd like to know why it makes more logical sense to be an atheist, your best bet is not an internet forum.  It's full length books, where you can explore subjects in depth and without the emotional rhetoric often associated with "internet debates."

Of course, Dawkins' "The God Delusion" is a great book, and you should read it in its entirety.  If you're having problems understanding evolution, you should read "The Blind Watchmaker" and "Climbing Mount Improbable."

Other great authors include Sam Harris, David Mills, and Christopher Hitchens.  Each of these authors represents the atheist argument from a slightly different perspective, so I have no idea of knowing which approach would work well for you.  

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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I call Poe on this guy.

I call Poe on this guy.

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mcap
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why no answer

 You cant just say yo my life is screwed up,I think i'll pray to someone Im not sure even exists.You have to actually believe in who you are talking too,He is not just there for convenience.


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Never an answer

mcap wrote:

 You cant just say yo my life is screwed up,I think i'll pray to someone Im not sure even exists.You have to actually believe in who you are talking too,He is not just there for convenience.

               By your words you are an agnostic hoping for an imaginary friend to dump on.  Sorry it aint there.

 

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mcap wrote:Hello,I am a

mcap wrote:
Hello,I am a former atheist who now believes in God.

You are also lying. I don't say this to antagonize you but there is absolutely no such critter as god and you know it. Period, end of story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited to stay with rules set for this forum.

 

Respectfully,
Lenny

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Madmen fed on fear and lies, To beat and burn and kill"
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I can't say I've ever met a

I can't say I've ever met a former atheist.  I find it hard to believe you could go from being an "atheist" to a believer unless you received a serious blow to the head by a 2x4 or Louisville slugger, or maybe dove into an empty pool.  Are there any other former atheists on this site. 

Quite frankly, your words just do not ring true.  You make a bold announcement that you are a "former atheist who now believes in god". Then you challenge anyone to convince you to return to your "atheist ways".  What are "atheist ways", anywho?  You sound like a christian simply trying to bait non-believers into a debate you think you can win or, at least, not lose.  Since the church decided early on that it is okay to lie to god's glory, and christians have been lying like a dog since then, I have to agree with FSM, Hamby and Subdi, that you've never been an atheist.  You're simply a christian who thinks he can outwit and out argue atheists because you have god behind you.  Good luck.

I for one won't even try to bring you back to the light.  People like you have locked your mind away somewhere that logic and reason are unable to reach.  You cannot be convinced as no amount of reason can penetrate the dogma sealing your mind in the darkness of fantasy.

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Apperently Luminion is a

Apperently Luminion is a former atheist.

 

There was also somebody a while back that converted to Christianity a couple years back IIRC. I have a horrible memory, but I think he posted something in FTA, then had "Christian" for religion on his myspace profile and I think BGH called him on it. I'll try to find it I could be wrong though. [Great, now it's going to bug me to try to remember]

 

 

As for me, I apperently took a few wacks to the noggin, as I've dabbled in several stances on the existance of God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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 I mentioned Antony Flew,

 I mentioned Antony Flew, and though we can certainly point to his growing dementia as part of the equation, it's hard to argue that he didn't advocate some kind of loose deism.  It's not exactly atheist to Christian... it's quite a long way from it.  Even in his dementia, he still recognized Christianity as bunk.

By his own account, Francis Collins was an atheist before he saw a waterfall and fell in love with Jesus.  However, we should note that Collins was home-schooled and admits that his parents were "nominally Christian."

The bottom line, I think, is not whether there are any former atheists.  Certainly, there must be a few.  I think the question ought to be how many people, raised in a non-theist environment and taught good critical thinking skills, have come to believe in any of the popular deities.

Deism, as I've mentioned before, is kind of a poor-man's atheism.  A deist god, by definition, isn't involved personally with humanity, so why bother with the thing on a day to day basis, or say that it wants us to do this or that?  Pantheism and deism, while technically "theisms," aren't really worthy of the question of "former atheism."

We should be asking how many well educated, non-indoctrinated people have become Christian or Muslim.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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Quote:We should be asking

Quote:

We should be asking how many well educated, non-indoctrinated people have become Christian or Muslim.

 

I'm pretty sure that Anders Borg [Who is Sweden's finance minister] converted to Christianity.

 


Anyway, sans a comprehensive survey, this would rely on ancedotes, and I think would be irrelevant to the actual argument anyway.[Which I believe would be a form of genetic fallacy]

 

Which is why I asked the questions of the OP, I think you're right he came for an argument given the "Rumble" part.

 

So I guess he/she is a sadist.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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mcap wrote: You cant just

mcap wrote:

 You cant just say yo my life is screwed up,I think i'll pray to someone Im not sure even exists.You have to actually believe in who you are talking too,He is not just there for convenience.

So you have to be a Christian before you can be a Christian? I have to be saved before I can pray the prayer of salvation? That's more than a bit asinine. In your view no one can be saved.

Anyway, if I remember my christian upbringing correctly - a sincere praying of the sinner's prayer is all that's required for a positive answer to it (whether you are convinced of God's existence or not). the prayer is a request for God to show himself to you and give you the assurance that you have received forgiveness of your sins. Didn't happen to me.

Why do I know more about your god than you do, believer?

 

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 Quote:I'm pretty sure that

 

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that Anders Borg [Who is Sweden's finance minister] converted to Christianity.

I've never heard of him.  I don't do a lot of business in Sweden.  Like I said, I'm sure there are such people in the world.  With so many people, it would be absolutely shocking if there weren't.

Quote:
Anyway, sans a comprehensive survey, this would rely on ancedotes, and I think would be irrelevant to the actual argument anyway.[Which I believe would be a form of genetic fallacy]

The original argument, if I am refering to the original argument, is that there are no real converted atheists.  I think that's just plain wrong.  I can't think of a way it could possibly be right.  I don't know what fallacy to call it, other than the "Atheists-are-perfect-thinking-machines fallacy."

It's extremely difficult to find a place on earth where someone could be raised to adulthood without any exposure to religion, and any line we draw will be arbitrary so long as there has been exposure.  At what point do we say that a child has been sufficiently influenced by witnessing the existence of a religion?  What weight do we give the presence of other religions?  (There are plenty of people in America who became Muslim after rejecting Christianity.)  Some people are more prone to herd mentality than others.  (Please... for the love of the FSM, read the authoritarian specter.)  Some people are prone to individualism than others.  (We must recognize the chance that someone raised atheist would be compelled by religion because it pissed their parents off.)

I've said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over that religion's effect on the mind is not binary.  We simply can't say that if we put John Mustang into a church at age five, that he will be a devoted Christian when he's thirty.  All we can do is look at what is likely to happen.

This has raised an interesting idea in my head.  Pineapple, have you seen the movie "The Village"?  If not, the basic idea is that there's an isolated village that gives every indication of being set in the mid 1800s, but it turns out, it's a group of people who rejected modern technology and chose to live in a simpler state.

Suppose there was a group of people who could live on an island, completely isolated and ignorant of the rest of humanity.  (I know... pretty much impossible, but just run with it.)  Suppose further that everyone was an atheist, and they were committed to establishing a society with not only no gods, but no concepts of gods whatsoever.  The children would be raised completely ignorant that gods or religions had ever existed.

Bear in mind that these people would be very well educated scientific naturalists.  They would teach their children critical thinking and the scientific method, and would explain to them from a very young age about evolution, psychology, sociology, and other "human sciences."  

The question is whether or not religion would come to exist in such a society.  We know that children mis-assign agency at a very young age.  That is, they attribute intent to natural events.  This is certainly a possible beginning for religion, but one of the leading theories of the origin of religion states that it was non-scientific man's attempt to explain the universe based on misattribution of agency.  Would it be possible for such a mistake to be made in a world in which even the previous existence of gods and religions was unkwown?

I don't know, and it's an interesting mental exercise.  I believe that so long as the group remained relatively small, it would be highly unlikely that religion would develop.  Only when it was large enough to support multiple sub-cultures and significant societal hierarchies would there be a large enough "out-group" to embrace something so radically different from the views of the "in-group.

 

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What you are doing is

What you are doing is putting the burden of proof on the nonbelievers. It is a classic chirstian technique. I know bc I used to do it myself. I could say that I now believe the Zeus, please prove that he does not exist. The problem is that you can't. So I guess that everything really exist bc we can't prove that it doesn't. Santa is real, the tooth fairy is real, Easter bunny, hobits, trolls, fairies. Pretty lame dude.

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mcap wrote: Hello,I am a

mcap wrote:

 Hello,I am a former atheist who now believes in God.I have only been a believer for 5 months.I would like to challenge anyone on this site to prove to me that there is no God and I will go back to my atheist ways.Due to the relatively short length of time It should be pretty easy right?ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE?

"Not following God's word" does not constitute being an atheist.

"I was angry at god" does not constitute being an atheist.

Being an atheist requires knowing what fallacies are and requires good use of logic. Since you used a 101 logical mistake, you were never an atheist.

I doubt you know what Bentrand Russell's "Teapot" argument is otherwise you wouldn't have started off your thread with this absurd tactic which has been throroghly thrashed.

Do not use the word "atheist" to discribe yourself when it is obvious you have no clue what an atheist is.

So 5 months ago what happened? You got the shit scared out of you? You saw other fan members emotionally happy and wanted to be a part of it? Both bad reasons to join any club.

Magic doesn't exist and an "atheist" rejects all claims of magic/super natural/ superstitious/ god(s) claims. Not just yours, but all.

There is no evidence for disimbodied brains magically manipulating atoms, much less entire galaxies or the thoughts in your head. There is no Superman vs Kriptonite magically making humans do good or bad.

Your god claim belongs in the same category as Minerva and Thor and Harry Potter, and has as much credibility as 4 leaf clovers and Vampires. You were never an atheist otherwise you wouldn't use such a laymen mistake as an argument.

When you can come up with godsperm or god DNA and have it medically reviewed by the AMA you'll have something. BUT PLEASE do not call yourself a former atheist, you never were.

"Rumble"?

No this is not a "Rumble", you are bringing an  intellectual knife to an intellectual gunfight. You'll have to do better than this to impress us.

 

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mcap wrote: You cant just

mcap wrote:

 You cant just say yo my life is screwed up,I think i'll pray to someone Im not sure even exists.You have to actually believe in who you are talking too,He is not just there for convenience.

He is not there at all. Wanting something to be real because you merely like the idea, or "feel" it is real, is a gap answer and nothing but a placebo and an argument from ignorance. The ancient Egyptians for 3 thousand years falsely thought that the sun was a thinking being. You have as much credibility for your claim now as they did then.

The reality is that there is no such thing as a "super brain with no body that lives in the stars". Deities are merely the product of wishful thinking because the human ego refuses to face it's own mortality.

Whatever caused you to cling to superstition is a result of your own ignorance combined with being victimized by others who have infected your mind with such absurdities.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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