So help me God
Offline I had an interesting experience at work today. I was attending a foreman's safety training class and our safety manager, with all good intentions, asked everyone to recite a Commitment to Safety oath that he came up with: Stand up, raise your right hand, repeat after me: " I, [state your name], do hereby solemnly swear to commit to safety, for the good of the company, blah blah blah... so help me God."
Well, I damn near choked when I saw the 'so help me God' part. My hand goes down at that point and I did not - could not - utter those last four words. I had to restrain myself from asking the first question that popped into my head: 'What on earth does God have to do with safety???' And because I have no desire to stir up controversy in my place of employment over a silly three-letter word, I also had to refrain from addressing the more fundamental issue of why is God even being brought up in the workplace.
I've been with this company more than seven years, and (with one exception) this was the first time I can recall God having been mentioned in any company-related content. (The one exception is they do use the phrase Acts of God in our employee handbook, referring to natural disasters and the like.) Besides distracting me and pissing me off for two minutes, I let it go after that. I'm sure this fellow has all good intentions, and he probably just assumed that everyone in the room is a god-fearing mortal as he himself apparently is.
I don't think I've ever taken an oath in a court of law, but if I were called upon to do so, how would I respond to placing my hand on a bible and muttering words that mean absolutely nothing to me, words like 'so help me God'? I'm sure I would just go with the flow and do as they ask; to take a bible oath would mean just as much to me as if I placed my hand on a McD's menu and said "so help me Mayor McCheese".
I'd be interested in hearing others comments about this, or about any experiences you may have had regarding taking oaths and other commitments that invoke references to God.
Thank God I'm an atheist.
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In any court of law you can and in fact you are compelled to take The Oath By Affirmation (no holey book) to do otherwise would violate the legal point of promising to tell only the truth. An atheist who swears on a bible, just to go with the flow is guilty of - refusing the oath, - obstructing justice, - contempt of court, but not purgery since you did not legaly swear to tell the truth.
It's not worth the hassle especially if the opposition lawyer knows your an atheist. Swear by affirmation.
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I beleive you are correct but it seems to me.
What if the opposition lawyer knows you are a compulsive liar?
What if you are Agnostic or a true Satanist?
I've seen interviews with jurors who said that they WERE negatively influenced against a defendent who used an affirmation instead of "So help me God". At least some of the jurors in that case took it to mean that the defendant was not going to tell the truth. Actual non-belief was apparently incomprehensible to them.
We all occasionally run into this kind of bullshit where God finds his way into the mix of everyday life. The majority of people (in the US at least) are still religious and assume everybody else is too. But including "...so help me God" into a safety oath is just silly. In fact, the oath itself is silly. Why not just have everybody agree to be more careful on the job and cut out all the silly swearing of an oath nonsense?
Rick
Frosty's coming back someday. Will you be ready?
Regarding jurors who are inclined to disbelieve evidence sworn "on affirmation" rather than on the bible:
The juror him or herself swears an oath to the judge that he or she will judge the matter in hand based on the evidence declared admissable by the judge's rulings, including testimony. If a juror later dismisses testimony even though it was deemed proper by the court then technically he or she is in contempt of court, esecially if this dismissal is based on a subjective rejection of fully legal court procedure.
In this instance it is the duty of the foreman of the jury to inform the judge (just as if the foreman suspected that certain witnesses' testimony was being dismissed by a juror based on that witness's ethnicity etc). The judge will most likely interview the juror and remind him or her of the oath they took. If the judge is dissatisfied with the juror, depending on what type of case is in progress, he can declare either a mistrial or dismiss the juror but allow the rest to deliberate and decide.
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
I'm sure you are right about that but since it relies on a conscientious jury foreman I would rather, if I were a defendant, swear on a bible and say "so help me god" than risk it. To me both methods are just affirmations anyway.
What is "so help me god" supposed to really mean, by the way?
It is a strange practice. Look at all of the people throughout history who lied, cheated, raped, stole, murdered, commited suicide etc. while a bible was practically harnessed to their face in their daily life.
Is there any evidence that a 'believer' with strong potential ulterior motives is deterred from telling lies after swearing on a bible? There is a wide, wide range of conviction in bible belief anyway...
Yeah I can relate to this. Here you are having been an employee for 7 years with the feeling of being part of the work place based on your skills, secure with a future. You're doing your job like every one else then BAM! suddenly you've been excluded, pruned and 'exposed' as an outcast, because you have no belief in the boggyman as if your abilities have become meaningless.
I would feel very vulnerable. Now you either have to lead a double life or expose yourself to possible ostracization.
People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.
I got the ostracization bit in Wapakaneta on religious grounds. I'm glad I did. Now I know a whole bunch of people living there to be vindictive petty-minded fuckers who I might not have known for what they are had I done the double-life thing.
Never do the double-life thing. Never. Not even "for the kids' sake". Never.
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
I think the "so help me god" is ingrained in most people as a force of habit thing these days. We see it so often in movies, TV etc it has become force of habbit such as using the words "god" "jesus" "holy *something*" when startled or cursing. He may well have meant absolutely nothing by it, it just felt natural for him to say when leading an oath - even a mock oath. Most likely little to no more thought than "what do oaths sound like in my head" went through his mind and it's just a throwaway statement.
Organised religion is the ultimate form of blasphemy.
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