Airborne PWNED by FTC!
Posted on: August 14, 2008 - 5:56pm
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Airborne PWNED by FTC!
See article here.
They agreed to pay 30 million to settle a suit by the FTC that they made false claims by saying it can prevent colds. They also can no longer make such claims. This is another one of those products based on pseudoscience that don't work beyond the placebo effect. Unfortunately, the people in the class action only get free products - why would anyone want a free product that doesn't work?
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
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well it is still a dietary supplement right? i mean just because it's not preventing the common cold does not negate the presence of vitamins in the stuff.
I'm not sure of that - it was distinctly sold and marketed as preventing colds.
It's about time. I read recently that a group of scientists in the US and UK are working to debunk a lot of the crap that consumers are promised to fix everything and deliver squat. It makes real science look like snake oil when unaware consumers are duped into products that promise more than they deliver. Even the FTC is unable to handle the load that they have to investiagate all the crap on the market. This is obvious as long as Airborne has been out and the makers fleeced buyers for years just to get another bottle of crap that doesn't work.
"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS
Didn't Randi speak out against them? I know he did against that Head On crap (which is a homeopathic "remedy" )
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Head On isn't homeopathic -- does the manufacturer claim that? As a migraine sufferer, experience tells me Head On, Migraine Ice, and other menthol-reeking stuff works for headaches.
Ever hear of the placebo effect? James Randi mentioned it was homeopathic and so did the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. I liked Randi's version of the commercial:
"Head On - it's a scam for the deluded."
Why do you think they don't say anything about what it does in the commercial? All they say is "apply dircetly to the forehead - the FDA won't let them claim it actually does anything.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
For Head On, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeadOn and it does state that it is Homeopathic remedy and
You do not want to condescend to me, Matt.
I've tried everything available over the counter for relief from agonizing day-long headaches and migraines, and while nothing works 100% of the time there are definitely times when one remedy or another works. Sometimes aspirin is enough; and sometimes I have to walk around with menthol on my forehead. I'm aware of the supposed principles of homeopathy and the undetectable trace ingredients it supposes to glean "vibrations" from, but the fact remains these remedies contain a conspicuous menthol component which has been included in many widely accepted remedies for a long ass time now. If it fails, so does Vicks Vaporub.
But, let's be honest here, you're responding to one often used and seldom understood word, because, ooh, the world is so stupid and doesn't "get" us atheists/skeptics/brights/whatthefuckever.
I'm getting fed up with this skeptical ideological bullshit that people are spoon-feeding themselves. No one is going to keep you safe from having to think and investigate and do the leg-work; not Randi, not Penn and fucking Teller, not anyone.
And what, Canada?
I'll grant that Head On lists its only active ingredient as inactive, but I'm speaking from experience when I say it, and any menthol product, will work on headaches beyond the placebo effect.
didn't mean to include the "and" part, but here goes...and only suckers buy it. As per BT Barnums quote it is morally wrong to let a sucker keep his money.
There are also plenty of people who claim "The only thing that works" for whatever is wearing magnets, faith healing, voodoo, etc. There are also people who swear to have seen Elvis alive in the last 20 years and to have been abducted by aliens. I didn't even see anything in the article about Head On containing menthol.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Whoa, that pithy quote, and the appeal to authority therein, almost made me forget precedent, facts and experience. Let me rest a moment from the impact of "BT" Barnum's misanthropic rambling.
It took me ten seconds to find references to menthol, so either I share a common and incredibly specific visual and olfactory hallucination, or you just suck at doing research and are intellectually complacent.
So claiming that something works means that it doesn't? Then nothing works for anything if anyone claims that it does. Your poisoning of the well with these fatuous comparisons only affirms my point about how skepticism can become as rote and shallow as anything else. Think, damn it. THINK. If I'm wrong, I want you to find out exactly, specifically, why and how; not just fall back on what someone else has said.
Vanquish tends to work for migraines, so does some good grade weed, but that's according to my friends, fortunately I don't get Migraines, but seriously, head on, never seen it work on anyone that I know that has used it, even my migraine friends.
Nothing works all the time, and Head On isn't a particularly strong menthol.
it is listed as an inactive ingredient...as for Menthol, and I am not trying to poke fun at you at all I am just curious, does it matter the form of menthol, say Vicks menthol? would that work? I personally never head of menthol working for migraines, usually it makes it worse, at least to my ex and her dad it did big time.
I haven't tried Vicks for it. Maybe I will next time to see what happens.
can some one PLEASE tell me how a topically applied menthol wax product like Head On... actually gets through your skin, fat, muscle, flesh, SKULL, and then onto a part of the brain that is inducing the migraine? -_- ITS SMELLY WAX FOR FUCK SAKE!!
What Would Kharn Do?
Yes, let's.
If you're aware of homeopathic principles, you know the stuff is so diluted you probably get more chemicals from tap water than from these "remedies". If menthol works, great. Use a topical arthritis formula; most of them have menthol as the primary (if not only) active ingredient.
Hey, magilum, ever tried Bengay or Rub A535 (if you can smuggle some out of Canada)? Hahahaha. Alright, they're analgesics. But that smell! Anyhow, it's too bad that the people here are being a bit assey. If the scent of menthol works sometimes to relieve you of your migraines, great. That is not to say that the menthol actually does anything other than sooth you (though I can't imagine how as the scent of menthol disgusts me). You admit that nothing works all of the time and I very much doubt that any statistically significant correlation would emerge if you used nothing or something else and there is the possibility that the migraine simply dissipates or becomes less severe over the time during which you've tried different 'remedies', but if it appears to do something for you, and since the placebo effect is real, continue on.
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Your reply owes its existence to poor reading comprehension.
Who's saying it does penetrate the skull? That's a straw-man. Maybe the same effect could be gotten by sniffing menthol, or maybe it relaxes muscles in the scalp or increases blood flow. I don't know how or whether it does these things. But if menthol hasn't been shown to have an effect on aches and pains, then give me data that says so (bearing in mind it will also apply to widely accepted OTC remedies). Until then, your skepticism is an empty pose.
I recognize your diplomacy, Thomathy, but this still a bit patronizing and not getting us closer to settling the matter. If I have time, I'll look for data and figure out what, if anything, menthol does physiologically.
As for those stuck on the word "homeopathic," I'll regretfully say the skepticism toward self-proclaimed skeptics is well founded. Such people have nothing to contribute to the conversation.
No, my reply owes its existence to you climbing up on your high horse and defending a placebo. Probably the ONLY thing in this product of any physiological effect whatsoever is the menthol, and there are other, probably cheaper ways to get that.
What are you, Henry Fucking Ford, peddling your Model T (any color you want, as long as it's black)? Everyone's entitled to an opinion, as long as it matches yours -- is that what you're saying?
I had an earache, and went to a drug store looking for something to relieve it until I could get to the doctor. One of the bottles of crap on the shelf (homeopathic, by the way) had what I thought was mercury in it. The pharmacist confirmed, and then explained that homeopathic "remedies" dilute the (chosen) chemical, then dilute it again, and again, and again, eight, ten, sometimes fourteen or more times, to the point you're basically using water.
So, put on your Mouske-ears, and sing along: P - L - A... C - E - B... OHohOHohOH.... Placebo... Placebo...
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
BigUniverse wrote,
"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."
Already covered; diss reiterated.
Experience isn't infallable, but I value it over rhetoric.
My original diss justified again.
What should I expect from someone who could call themselves a pantheist, and then be swayed from it by Paisley of all people?
Oh, don't you start.
Paisley. I called myself a pantheist long before I left the idea of a sentient god behind. Paisley sniveling about it made me realize I no longer wished to be associated with the likes of him.
Nothing in my post says anything about menthol. I know it does... something. I use menthol-laced products myself. THAT particular post was about the disputed effectiveness of homeopathic products. IMO, they are as effective as water.
What does association have to do with whether a position is tenable?
You're out of your element, Donnie.
Exactly the same thing my position has to do with this thread: nothing.
Oh, well, then teach me, oh exalted one. I am but a worm.
So you've either lied about when and why you've abandoned it, or your position was totally thoughtless. The latter having everything to do with your participation in this thread.
Your posts are shrill and redundant, and your avatar unimaginative.
Oh! Whatever shall I do? The caustic wit of Lord Magilum has cut me to the quick.
The avatar reflects something I enjoy. Your own avatar SCREAMS creativity, though.
Thanks, I tried to put a little more thought into it than you do before posting.
Sue me. I'll get a lawyer.
Did you re-read the thread? Do you recognize your mistake yet? Are you ready to eat crow?
No, no, and no.
Break it down, for me. I'm all ears... or eyes.
What, seriously? You still stubbornly refuse to recognize that even your original contribution to this thread was completely unnecessary? That your coming here, lecturing about homeopathy, was completely misguided and an affront to the whole human endeavor?
Basically, yes.
I'm exercising my right to free speech. I'm expressing an opinion; one that happens to be shared by a large percentage of medical professionals. And wtf are you talking about "affront to the whole human endeavor"?
Or is it that my first post in this thread was addressed to YOU, and that since MY opinion differs from YOURS, *that* is what makes me "wrong"?
I have to add this:
When I get migraines, depending on the warnings beforehand, what I do to remedy them varies.
If my migraines are preceded by flashing lights (aura) I grab my vicks and rub it under my nose. I think it has a calming effect, not sure why it works but it does. (my grandma suggested this years ago)
If I suffer from vergito I know the migraine is at least 24 hours away and begin medicating.
Sometimes a nice warm bath helps
Sometimes a quiet room with steady breathing works
I have never tried head-on because I have remedies that work for me already. And one thing is for sure, none of you can tell me that they DON'T work.
Slowly building a blog at ~
http://obsidianwords.wordpress.com/
What you lack in thoroughness... yeah, you don't really make up for otherwise. Since I have to spell it out for you, and for the benefit of anyone who wants to see what happens when a mentally lazy person, who through some fluke happens not to believe in a personal god, tries to dive into a conversation without paying attention: your premise, which you pressed so aggressively, had already been addressed, and you only had to scroll up and read to notice this.
I guess if there's going to be an atheist movement we have to accept that its ranks will still be full of grunting baboons who can only toe the party line.
Dance puppets DANCE!!!
and on a lighter note...
Its smelly fuckin wax, end of story
edit; also i found this tid bit ^_^
"Cannabis was a standard treatment for migraines from the mid-19th century until it was outlawed in the early 20th century in the USA. It has been reported to help people through an attack by relieving the nausea and dulling the head pain, as well as possibly preventing the headache completely when used as soon as possible after the onset of pre-migraine symptoms, such as aura. There is some indication that semi-regular use may reduce the frequency of attacks. Further studies are being conducted. Some migraine sufferers report that cannabis decreases throbbing and pain, especially if smoked. A pharmaceutical company is currently conducting trials of a whole cannabis extract spray for migraine"
What Would Kharn Do?
Who put a fucking quarter in you?
>.>
<.<
Penny for my thoughts
Dollar for my body
What Would Kharn Do?
You make the same mistake as many theists when you ASS U ME that personal experience has any validity whatsoever.
Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team
Most of the decisions you make every single fucking day are based solely on personal experience. I'm guessing my limited personal experience on the matter still exceeds any investigation on your part. You didn't even know it had menthol in it because the one article you read didn't tell you.