Another "gap" in evolution filled

MattShizzle
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Another "gap" in evolution filled

It has to do with flatfish that have both eyes on the same side of the head. Of course creationists will say now there are 2 gaps.

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Always the same thing

Evolution has demostrated itself to be factual, it has been tested and shown to be true, yes there are gaps in the evolutionary line, but with time we find those gaps, and even if those gaps exists, logically speaking it maybe impossible to find every single one as it's not like nature at some point decided to peserve every single oraganizm that ever existed. As such since we can prove that evolution occurs, that we can prove the evolutionary trail as well, even if there are gaps. It's the ignorance of those that want to say god made us as is and there is, because they are afraid of the truth, that their god does not exist, that the world and the universe does not care for them in particular and there is no deity overlooking them for their happiness and protection.


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MattShizzle wrote:It has to

MattShizzle wrote:

It has to do with flatfish that have both eyes on the same side of the head. Of course creationists will say now there are 2 gaps.

Article

 

 

Here is your story from an independant, credible source (not disputing yours)

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/07/080709-evolution-fish.html


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Thanks. I actually like that

Thanks. I actually like that one better as it goes right out and says this is strong evidence against intelligent design.

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MattShizzle wrote:It has to

MattShizzle wrote:

It has to do with flatfish that have both eyes on the same side of the head. Of course creationists will say now there are 2 gaps.

Article

 

Halibut?... those fish are ugly as... uh... well their just damn ugly, but tasty, tasty flesh

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JustAnotherBeliever
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Someone posted this idea a

Someone posted this idea a while back, not sure who. But evolution can be thought of as an intelligent designer. If you explain to the theist how evolution is not random, it is pretty cool when the light bulb comes on - if it ever does. It dismantles their argument without bringing evidence against a God into the picture. This will not stop the adhocism that "therefore God created evolution to do that" but its a start. Unfortunately, christians think they are winning the "great" debate even though its all old arguments now called ID. It would be nice to move on to more fruitful questions.  So christians can give up fighting evolution, and atheists give up fighting ID. It can be taught in a philosophy course, not as science. Then everyone's happy!


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JustAnotherBeliever

JustAnotherBeliever wrote:

Someone posted this idea a while back, not sure who. But evolution can be thought of as an intelligent designer. If you explain to the theist how evolution is not random, it is pretty cool when the light bulb comes on - if it ever does. It dismantles their argument without bringing evidence against a God into the picture. This will not stop the adhocism that "therefore God created evolution to do that" but its a start. Unfortunately, christians think they are winning the "great" debate even though its all old arguments now called ID. It would be nice to move on to more fruitful questions.  So christians can give up fighting evolution, and atheists give up fighting ID. It can be taught in a philosophy course, not as science. Then everyone's happy!

It could be but is it really necessary to anthropomorphize the process? It looks like a great setup for the theist the atheist is discussing this with to say "Aha! Evolution is your God!"

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JustAnotherBeliever
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jcgadfly wrote:It could be

jcgadfly wrote:

It could be but is it really necessary to anthropomorphize the process? It looks like a great setup for the theist the atheist is discussing this with to say "Aha! Evolution is your God!"

Thats true unfortunately. We tend to anthropomorphize God too anyway. It would be nice if we could all agree we do that. Maybe by anthropomorphizing evolution you could "sell" it better to believers so its not some giant impersonal force, to make the transition less painful. Because on the one hand, we want to think God is in control and taking care of us but on the other hand, does that mean anything in practice?  


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JustAnotherBeliever

JustAnotherBeliever wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

It could be but is it really necessary to anthropomorphize the process? It looks like a great setup for the theist the atheist is discussing this with to say "Aha! Evolution is your God!"

Thats true unfortunately. We tend to anthropomorphize God too anyway. It would be nice if we could all agree we do that. Maybe by anthropomorphizing evolution you could "sell" it better to believers so its not some giant impersonal force, to make the transition less painful. Because on the one hand, we want to think God is in control and taking care of us but on the other hand, does that mean anything in practice?  

But it IS some impersonal process, and what's the benefit of claiming otherwise? Really?

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TheOnlyChristian123 (not verified)
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none

This article says that the fish had a serious mutation to evolve, but can someone please tell me any time when mutation has been proven to be a positive thing?


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TheOnlyChristian123

TheOnlyChristian123 wrote:

This article says that the fish had a serious mutation to evolve, but can someone please tell me any time when mutation has been proven to be a positive thing?

When it lets flatfish not sit with one eye in the mud all their lives?

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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The HIV virus' ability to

The HIV virus' ability to mutate is why it is so difficult to deal with. Obviously for us that's a big negative, but as far as the virus is concerned it is a positive thing.

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umm ok but a virus is

umm ok but a virus is definately negative, please tell me one example of a current mammal that has gotten that way from mutation and tell me how you know this


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i actually remember arguing

i actually remember arguing with this guy on another forum, who posted a Dawkins video on flatfish evolution and ranted about how ridiculous it is. now the proof's out. unfortunately i got banned because i showed them jesus didn't exist so i can't do anything about it now......


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TheOnlyChristian123

TheOnlyChristian123 wrote:

umm ok but a virus is definately negative, please tell me one example of a current mammal that has gotten that way from mutation and tell me how you know this

 

Well, think about it as stumbling upon a turf war between rivaling gangs.

It is something outside of your control that happens to have been "created"

[obviously someone upstairs is messing up quite a bit]

 

by outer forces that don't have anything to do with you.

 

Now, once it is inside you, you can think about getting foot fungus or something

under certain conditions it will grow and flourish

 

same thing for the HIV virus.

 

 

Your body doesn't create it.

it goes inside it.

Then mutates.

 

oh wait....what do we call that?

oh yeah, that's right

 

 

EVOLUTION


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TheOnlyChristian123

TheOnlyChristian123 wrote:

umm ok but a virus is definately negative, please tell me one example of a current mammal that has gotten that way from mutation and tell me how you know this

As was said: the virus is negative for us, but the mutation's not in us, it's in the virus. So the mutation has to be evaluated with regard to the organism that has mutated.

But... you want a beneficial mutation in a mammal? SURE!

My cat climbs trees. He climbs them very well, and gets a much surer grip on the bark than his siblings do. He does this because he has six toes (and thus, six claws) on each forepaw, instead of four. His feet at also broader than his siblings' because of the extra toes, which distributes the weight from his front end better,  making it somewhat easier for him to walk across the surface of snow. If he had extra toes on the rear paws, he'd have an even easier time of it.

There you go. A beneficial mutation: Polydactyl cats.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid


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Quote:Polydactyl

Quote:
Polydactyl cats.

Polydactyl cats?

Come on BM.. admit it.. you made that up.  Everyone knows that the only thing that can be polydactyl is a pterodactyl.. and those look nothing like cats.

Ergo, evolution is false.


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RhadTheGizmo

RhadTheGizmo wrote:

Quote:
Polydactyl cats.

Polydactyl cats?

Come on BM.. admit it.. you made that up.  Everyone knows that the only thing that can be polydactyl is a pterodactyl.. and those look nothing like cats.

Ergo, evolution is false.

 

google it. Yes there are polydactyl cats, and if you'd have read his statement, you'd have gotten a classic example of what a many(poly) digit(dactyl) cat is about.

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I'm sure he was joking.

I'm sure he was joking. Polydactylity is a very common mutation in cats.


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yeah, it is; there's a

yeah, it is; there's a community near where I live and 3/4ths of the feline population there is polydactyl, the other 1/4th being introduced rather recently as house pets. Over 75 cats in a town of less than 25 people.

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MattShizzle
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That would certainly be

That would certainly be evidence to it's being evolutionarily advantageous.


RhadTheGizmo
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Quote:I'm sure he was

Quote:
I'm sure he was joking. Polydactylity is a very common mutation in cats.

Thanks Matt.. I was joking.

 


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Kay Cat wrote:google it. Yes

Kay Cat wrote:

google it. Yes there are polydactyl cats, and if you'd have read his statement, you'd have gotten a classic example of what a many(poly) digit(dactyl) cat is about.

Yeah, Rhad and I have taken to messing w/each other lately, it seems. Eye-wink

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - The Waco Kid