Did you know that Osama escaped after being cornered, 3 times, in 2001?

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Did you know that Osama escaped after being cornered, 3 times, in 2001?

A good overview of this curious conspiricy comes from the "911 Press For Truth Video", the relevant section of which was posted at youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_BS83BmTIQ

Osama Escape # 1 -- from Kabul

November 2001 escape from Kabul, reported by the London Times, July 22, 2002:

"Many locals in Afghanistan reportedly witness a remarkable escape of al-Qaeda forces from Kabul around this time. One local businessman says, “We don’t understand how they weren’t all killed the night before because they came in a convoy of at least 1,000 cars and trucks. It was a very dark night, but it must have been easy for the American pilots to see the headlights. The main road was jammed from eight in the evening until three in the morning.” This convoy was thought to have contained al-Qaeda’s top officials."        You might also want to rack your brain trying to figure how Osama's convoy could feel free to move so easily and in large numbers, making their position obvious with 2000 headlights in the pitch black of Kabul mountain roads... given US Forces were right on his ass the whole time.  Could it be that Osama had no fears of being caught, having been assured of such by certain higher ups in US government, that need Osama to continue operating so they can continue providing America with excuses to keep US military stationed in the middle east?

Escape # 2 -- from Jalalabadd

In late October, US intelligence reports began noting that al-Qaeda fighters and leaders were moving into and around the Afghan city of Jalalabad. By early November, bin Laden is said to be there. [Knight Ridder, 10/20/2002] Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke will later recall, “We knew from day one the likely places that bin Laden would flee to. There had been lots of work done before 9/11 on where did he hang out, statistical analysis even. We knew Tora Bora was the place where he would be likely to go. People in CIA knew that; people in the counterterrorism community knew about it. We knew that what you should have done was to insert special forces—Rangers, that sort of thing—up into that area as soon as possible.” [PBS Frontline, 6/20/2006] Knight Ridder Newspapers later reports that “American intelligence analysts concluded that bin Laden and his retreating fighters were preparing to flee across the border. However, the US Central Command, which was running the war, made no move to block their escape. ‘It was obvious from at least early November that this area was to be the base for an exodus into Pakistan,’ said one intelligence official, who spoke only on condition of anonymity. ‘All of this was known, and frankly we were amazed that nothing was done to prepare for it.’” [Knight Ridder, 10/20/2002]

On the night of November 13, a convoy of 1,000 or more al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters escapes from Jalalabad and reaches the fortress of Tora Bora after hours of driving and then walking. Bin Laden is believed to be with them, riding in one of “several hundred cars” in the convoy. The US bombs the nearby Jalalabad airport, but apparently does not attack the convoy. [Christian Science Monitor, 3/4/2002; Knight Ridder, 10/20/2002] The Northern Alliance captures Jalalabad the next day. [Sydney Morning Herald, 11/14/2001]

 

Escape # 3 -- From Tora Bora, November 16, 2001:

Gary Berntsten, lead CIA field officer involved with hunting Bin Laden in Afghanistan in 2001, quits the CIA two years short of retirement, in the effort to publish his book "Jawbreaker", where he admits he had Bin Laden cornered in the mountains of Tora Bora, and was officially denied requested backup troops by his superiors, which would have enabled him to move in for the arrest.

Approximately 600 al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters, including many senior leaders, escape Afghanistan November 16, 2001. There are two main routes out of the Tora Bora cave complex to Pakistan. The US bombs only one route, so the 600 are able to escape without being attacked using the other route. Hundreds will continue to use the escape route for weeks, generally unbothered by US bombing or Pakistani border guards. US officials later privately admit they lost an excellent opportunity to close a trap. [Newsweek, 8/11/2002] On the same day, the media reports that the US is studying routes bin Laden might use to escape Tora Bora [Los Angeles Times, 11/16/2001] , but the one escape route is not closed, and by some accounts bin Laden and others escape into Pakistan will use this same route several weeks later.

A US Special Forces soldier stationed in Fayetteville, North Carolina, later (anonymously) claims that the US has bin Laden pinned in a certain Tora Bora cave on this day, but fails to act. Special Forces soldiers allegedly sit by waiting for orders and watch two helicopters fly into the area where bin Laden is believed to be, load up passengers, and fly toward Pakistan. No other soldiers have come forward to corroborate the story, but bin Laden is widely believed to have been in the Tora Bora area at the time. [Fayetteville Observer, 8/2/2002] Newsweek separately reports that many locals “claim that mysterious black helicopters swept in, flying low over the mountains at night, and scooped up al-Qaeda’s top leaders.” [Newsweek, 8/11/2002] Perhaps coincidentally, on the same day this story is reported, months after the fact, the media also will report a recent spate of strange deaths at the same military base in Fayetteville. Five soldiers and their wives died since June 2002 in apparent murder-suicides. At least three were Special Forces soldiers recently returned from Afghanistan. [Independent, 8/2/2002] Other reports indicate that bin Laden crosses the border into Pakistan by foot instead.

==============

So how many of you rational responders think Osama's unbelievable three escapes from the US forces, was all due, once again, to "incompetence", especially given the shock of the locals that we missed him when he was so obviously in view, and the frustration of ranking forces who complain they were denied their requests for sufficient backup to make the arrest after cornering Osama?   How much stupidity must you see, before you begin to suspect that it's not ineptitude, but deliberation?   Do you need to see Bush shaking hands with Osama before you start suspecting all sorts of evil shit going on behind the curtain that is far worse than the 6 o'clock government controlled evening news tells you it is?

Faith does not have the power to move mountains. However, it does have the power to make you think a mountain has moved.


Abu Lahab
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Yawn......I do.

skepticdude wrote:
How many of you  Rational Responders think Osama's unbelievable three escapes from the US forces, was all due, once again, to "incompetence", <SNIP>

 

Yawn......

I do.

 

To expand somewhat.....Were you ever in the military? It'll give you a wondeful insight into how stupidity is honed to a fine art form.

 

 

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


Cpt_pineapple
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Couple points: 1) If Bush

Couple points:

 

1) If Bush did 9/11you'd think they would catch Bin Laden. Do you have any idea how much support would recieve if he caught Bin Laden? Remember how the opinions of the Iraq war rose when Hussien was caught?

 

2) If they were trying to avoid catching him, you'd think they wouldn't have surronded him in the first place. They wouldn't even have made the attempt, they just would say 'We don't know where the fuck he is.'

 

 

 

 


skepticdude
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Abu Lahab wrote:skepticdude

Abu Lahab wrote:

skepticdude wrote:
How many of you  Rational Responders think Osama's unbelievable three escapes from the US forces, was all due, once again, to "incompetence", <SNIP>

 

Yawn......

I do.

 

To expand somewhat.....Were you ever in the military? It'll give you a wondeful insight into how stupidity is honed to a fine art form.

I was never in the military, but I can guage the level of stupidity in the 2001 Osama task-force by noting that they certainly had Osama cornered, which requires the sort of intelligence communication and competence that is also require to move in and make the arresting move once positive location is radioed in from the ground troops.

Your "yawn" only tells me you are too tired to interact intelligently with the obvious evidence that the US forces are smart enough to corner Osama, and that's sufficiently smart to also know what is necessary to actually arrest or kill him.   Berntsen, the CIA's lead agent in this hunt, radioed positive ID and location on Osama, and requested the standard back up troops to effect arrest, yet was DENIED this support.    If I sent you to capture somebody, then denied your request for backup after you radioed positive ID and location, you would NOT suspect stupidity on my part, but deliberate choice to let the suspect remain free in spite of your efforts.

Sorry, stupidity doesn't characterize Berntsen's account of his superiors.  It's obviously their deliberate decision to let Osama remain free.

You have not interacted with the accounts, you simply yawn and then try to ride your entire way through this debate on a comical note about general stupidity in the military.   Try again when you can actually hang with it instead of yawning and laughing your way through evidence that contradicts your viewpoint.

Faith does not have the power to move mountains. However, it does have the power to make you think a mountain has moved.


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skepticdude wrote:Abu Lahab

skepticdude wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:

skepticdude wrote:
How many of you  Rational Responders think Osama's unbelievable three escapes from the US forces, was all due, once again, to "incompetence", <SNIP>

 

Yawn......

I do.

 

To expand somewhat.....Were you ever in the military? It'll give you a wondeful insight into how stupidity is honed to a fine art form.

I was never in the military

Figured as much....so you're coming from an uninformed observers POV. You believe in god, don't you?

 

Ahahahahahahahahaha! Get the fuck out of here. Seriously!

 

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


skepticdude
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Cpt_pineapple wrote:Couple

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

Couple points:

 1) If Bush did 9/11you'd think they would catch Bin Laden.

 No, people who are informed about geopolitics and the value of psyops, would expect Bush, if guilty of 911, to blame it on a patsy, which was the preferred strategy of Kennedy's military Joint Chiefs of Staff, all of whom signed on the "Operation Northwoods" plan, which is the perfect description of false flag terrorism.  You don't just kill your own citizens and then leave the survivors guessing who did it.  You immediately appeal to their patriotism, through their trusted media sources (the news on tv) and blame whoever you want.   The Gulf of Tonkin and the attack on the USS Liberty are other examples of US orchestrated false flag terrorism that blamed innocent countries or people for the attacks.

Quote:
Do you have any idea how much support would recieve if he caught Bin Laden? Remember how the opinions of the Iraq war rose when Hussien was caught?

Support doesn't make your oil corporations more successful in Iraq.  You have no right to that oil, but your country is addicted to it, and the longer Osama remains at large, the longer you can justify staying in Iraq.  Of course things have changed, and Bush and other military commanders have since admitted that they have little interest in capturing the world's most wanted man.  But the point is, making sure Osama remained free was Bush's obvious strategy in late 2001 to justify invading Iraq.  Things have changed, but that doesn't change Bush's original plan.

How do you explain the CIA refusing to grant Berntsen more ground support after he radioed positive location of Osama back to them?  If they are on the hunt for Osama, and they trust Berntsen enough to make him the lead CIA agent in this Osama-hunt, why are they refusing to take the last crucial step necessary to achieve the goal?

Also, you aren't interacting with the evidence and the news accounts, you are just revealing what you yourself would expect to have happened, if Bush was guilty.  That avoids the evidence in the news accounts that the military and CIA were deliberately stood down before they could complete the final step in the goal of getting Osama after cornering him.

Quote:
2) If they were trying to avoid catching him, you'd think they wouldn't have surronded him in the first place. They wouldn't even have made the attempt, they just would say 'We don't know where the fuck he is.'

Do you seriously think America would have believed Bush, if all he did after 911 was say "I haven't sent anybody to go looking for Osama, because we don't know where he is." ?

You seem unaware that it would be more convincing, to a criminally guilty president trying to impress his educated American citizens, to at least give the appearence of trying to capture Osama, this being in late 2001, when all eyes were on Bush,  patriotically expecting him to pursue the enemy with great vigor.  That's what he did.   And then he deliberately stalled the task-force exactly during the last step before arrest, 3 times, and so Osama escapes, 3 times.

I really wish you'd do some research into these issues.  You speak like a Bush supporting 14-year old that is totally unaware of the political strategies that would naturally be favored by guilty presidents that wish to illegally kill and grab up land, while keeping that agenda hidden to their own countrymen.

No, cpt, saying "we don't know where the fuck he is" would not be a very good way to proceed with perpetuating deception on America.  If you swear to America on 911 that you'll pursue the enemy wherever they might be, you obviously realize America will expect you to put forth effort tracking Osama down.  If Bush didn't want to actually capture Osama, it would still be advantageous, politically, to at least LOOK like he is pursuing that terrorist.

And in case you forgot, these unbelievable escapes of Osama were never front page news.  You would never have even heard of them unless 911 truthers had compiled them.  Your trustworthy news media corporations you watch on tv are too busy telling you about Paris Hilton's drunk driving, to to be showing you what utter corruption the US government is involved in abroad.

Please go purchase dvds like "911 Press for Truth", Alex Jones's "911: Road to Tyranny", and "Unprecedented: the 2000 Presidential Election", to inform youself a little more before you respond to these issues.  Your "expectations" of what a criminally guilty president would do, are way off base.

Go read the hard pointed well-researched questions the Jersey Girls formed for the 911 Commission, but which that Commission did not dare touch, at http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html

Go download videos of the key speakers at the 911 citizen's commmission conference, where people in key positions concerning 911 foreknowledge and attacks, speak about how their superiors tried to supress their efforts in their respective lines of work to expose evidence of terrorist threats against the US starting a few years before 911, located at http://www.911busters.com/911-Commission.html

The point of these resources is to demonstrate that "incompetence" doesn't fit the bill to explain why 911 happened, deliberate protection of Osama and assisting him, and using technology to cause paralysis of the military in the critical minutes after the attacks,  fits the bill far better, because it's exactly what the evidence declares....which unfortunately implies not just aiding and abetting, but also the planning of the attacks.  Even supposing Bush merely knew of the attack coming, and simply acted to insure they'd succeed, that still makes him equally just as guilty of the attacks as if he planned them.  Bush put forth effort to extinguish on-going and successful Osama-investigations, and Bob Graham accused him of shielding Arabia and Pakistan with those 28 redacted pages, which can only work to help Osama and his terrorists remain free from the Law.  That's not just standing by and letting the attacks happen.  That's obviously working to support terrorism by doing things to help it succeed and then working to obstruct justice, thus making Bush just as guilty of a crime as those who allegedly hijacked the jets.

Forgive me if I write passionately, but when I talk to you, I sense that the Bushian plan to indoctrinate people with half-truths through the trusted corporate media, actually working.  If you knew more about how corporate news agencies work, you'd never trust anything they reported about controversial political issues ever again.  Go find yourself a media watchdog group, they take the time to compare the standard 6 o'clock news with conflicting news reports from lessor known or more local news stations, and they often come up with important clashes.

By the way, from what resource did you first discover that there were additional bombs INSIDE the Oklahoma City federal building, which was bombed in 1995?

Faith does not have the power to move mountains. However, it does have the power to make you think a mountain has moved.


skepticdude
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Abu Lahab wrote:skepticdude

Abu Lahab wrote:

skepticdude wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:

skepticdude wrote:
How many of you  Rational Responders think Osama's unbelievable three escapes from the US forces, was all due, once again, to "incompetence", <SNIP>

 

Yawn......

I do.

 

To expand somewhat.....Were you ever in the military? It'll give you a wondeful insight into how stupidity is honed to a fine art form.

I was never in the military

Figured as much....so you're coming from an uninformed observers POV. You believe in god, don't you?

 

Ahahahahahahahahaha! Get the fuck out of here. Seriously!

 

 

Are you concluding that I cannot learn what to expect of the military, because I was never in the military?  How does that follow?  If the military was so stupid that they didn't take the last crucial step to arrest Osama after cornering him, why didn't their stupidity prevent them from corning him in the first place?  It's obvious that while there are problems with the military, your broadbrush of their stupidity cannot be relied on to explain Osama's lucky 3 escapes, and thus avoid the conclusion that Bush wanted him to remain free.

All kinds of military history books have been written by former military members, FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC, with the assumption that anybody who can read english, regardless of military experience of lack thereof, can learn what the military is like, by simply READING.

Please justify your retarded position that I cannot correctly know what to expect of the military, because I was never a part of the military.

And you call yourself a "rational" responder?   I can't know what to expect of the military because I was never in it?  That's RATIONAL?

Faith does not have the power to move mountains. However, it does have the power to make you think a mountain has moved.


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skepticdude wrote:Are you

skepticdude wrote:

Are you concluding that I cannot learn what to expect of the military, because I was never in the military?  How does that follow?  If the military was so stupid that they didn't take the last crucial step to arrest Osama after cornering him, why didn't their stupidity prevent them from corning him in the first place?  It's obvious that while there are problems with the military, your broadbrush of their stupidity cannot be relied on to explain Osama's lucky 3 escapes, and thus avoid the conclusion that Bush wanted him to remain free.

All kinds of military history books have been written by former military members, FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC, with the assumption that anybody who can read english, regardless of military experience of lack thereof, can learn what the military is like, by simply READING.

Please justify your retarded position that I cannot correctly know what to expect of the military, because I was never a part of the military.

And you call yourself a "rational" responder?   I can't know what to expect of the military because I was never in it?  That's RATIONAL?

Ok, so if the military was so stupid that they didn't take the last crucial step to 'arrest' Osama after cornering him, why didn't their stupidity prevent them from corning him in the first place? Are you fucking kidding? Arrest him. Do you have any idea the terrain you're talking about? Was he just going to come quietly? That's a mighty big leap from cornering him in a vast mountainous area to arresting him. Why didn't the cowardly Bill Clinton drop the bomb when he had the chance? Too busy getting blown, that's why.

I was in the military, I've had experiences that I know people don't believe purely on the grounds that they are too idiotic to comprehend.

Here's a quick one for you:

Staff Sgt "Gunner X, paint that grass green, it's not Army green"

Me "If I do that it will die"

Staff Sgt "Are you disobeying a direct order?"

Me "No, Staff" Grass painted emerald green outside the guardhouse. White stones surrounding the grass repainted in glorious white.

A week or so later I am charged with destroying Army property, 50 quid fine, for killing the grass.

My point being that unless you are immersed in it you will never fully comprehend the stupidity of most military units. You'll also never be able to understand what it takes to have live fire coming in and still function. You cannot read that in a book and say "Ah, I get it. I can do that"

Do you think that watching Full Metal Jacket will fully reveal the fun and games that comprise Basic Training?

I'm sure this 9/11 thing is you torch to bear, please bugger off somewhere else. It's laughable and you can't even see it.

I don't call myself a Rational Responder, I'm one of those Sexual Deviant Responders that's only here on the off chance Kelly gets naked.

You may have the last word.

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


skepticdude
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Abu Lahab wrote:I'm sure

Abu Lahab wrote:

I'm sure this 9/11 thing is you torch to bear, please bugger off somewhere else. It's laughable and you can't even see it.

I don't call myself a Rational Responder, I'm one of those Sexual Deviant Responders that's only here on the off chance Kelly gets naked.

You may have the last word.

Given your choice to paint the grass green on superior's orders, instead of reporting him for ordering things that are illegal, I can understand why you end your attempt to engage me in a 911 debate by saying you are only a sexual deviant waiting for Kelly to get naked.  Your denial of being a rational responder is probably the only direct truth you are capable of admitting.  Stick to the porn mags and leave the brain-work to me.

Faith does not have the power to move mountains. However, it does have the power to make you think a mountain has moved.


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skepticdude wrote:Abu Lahab

skepticdude wrote:

Abu Lahab wrote:

I'm sure this 9/11 thing is you torch to bear, please bugger off somewhere else. It's laughable and you can't even see it.

I don't call myself a Rational Responder, I'm one of those Sexual Deviant Responders that's only here on the off chance Kelly gets naked.

You may have the last word.

Given your choice to paint the grass green on superior's orders, instead of reporting him for ordering things that are illegal <SNIP>

Fuck it, this is too easy to pass up.

You know nothing about the Army or you wouldn't have made that blatantly naive statement. "Ooooh, sir, sir! Staff Sgt. tried to make me paint grass!". Yeah, that'll work...

You really are dismal. Go and read a book about lobotomies and then perform one on yourself, your self-perception needs adjusting a few notches down.

If your IQ was higher than room temperature it would be a shock to me. Of course it could be a very cold room....hmmm.

 

 p.s. I don't need porn, I have nice, intelligent, affectionate women for that. When you get older you may find one charitable enough to show you how, but don't hold your breath waiting.

How can not believing in something that is backed up with no empirical evidence be less scientific than believing in something that not only has no empirical evidence but actually goes against the laws of the universe and in many cases actually contradicts itself? - Ricky Gervais


Cpt_pineapple
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Quote: No, people who are

Quote:

 No, people who are informed about geopolitics and the value of psyops, would expect Bush, if guilty of 911, to blame it on a patsy, which was the preferred strategy of Kennedy's military Joint Chiefs of Staff, all of whom signed on the "Operation Northwoods" plan, which is the perfect description of false flag terrorism.  You don't just kill your own citizens and then leave the survivors guessing who did it.  You immediately appeal to their patriotism, through their trusted media sources (the news on tv) and blame whoever you want.   The Gulf of Tonkin and the attack on the USS Liberty are other examples of US orchestrated false flag terrorism that blamed innocent countries or people for the attacks.

 

I thought Bush's plan was an NWO? Think about this. Bush catches the most wanted terrorist in the world? He would be a international hero. Other nations would be lining up to give him a handjob.

 

Quote:

Support doesn't make your oil corporations more successful in Iraq.  You have no right to that oil, but your country is addicted to it, and the longer Osama remains at large, the longer you can justify staying in Iraq.  Of course things have changed, and Bush and other military commanders have since admitted that they have little interest in capturing the world's most wanted man.  But the point is, making sure Osama remained free was Bush's obvious strategy in late 2001 to justify invading Iraq.  Things have changed, but that doesn't change Bush's original plan.

How do you explain the CIA refusing to grant Berntsen more ground support after he radioed positive location of Osama back to them?  If they are on the hunt for Osama, and they trust Berntsen enough to make him the lead CIA agent in this Osama-hunt, why are they refusing to take the last crucial step necessary to achieve the goal?

Also, you aren't interacting with the evidence and the news accounts, you are just revealing what you yourself would expect to have happened, if Bush was guilty.  That avoids the evidence in the news accounts that the military and CIA were deliberately stood down before they could complete the final step in the goal of getting Osama after cornering him.

 

I think the entire international community knows that Osama had nothing to do with Iraq. Bush made the the bullshit about WMDs, Osama free has nothing to do with U.S presence in Iraq.

 

Quote:

Do you seriously think America would have believed Bush, if all he did after 911 was say "I haven't sent anybody to go looking for Osama, because we don't know where he is." ?

 

The Soviets couldn't catch him.

Afghanistan is huge with network of caves, so them not being able to locate him would be a plausable excuse.

 

Quote:

You seem unaware that it would be more convincing, to a criminally guilty president trying to impress his educated American citizens, to at least give the appearence of trying to capture Osama, this being in late 2001, when all eyes were on Bush,  patriotically expecting him to pursue the enemy with great vigor.  That's what he did.   And then he deliberately stalled the task-force exactly during the last step before arrest, 3 times, and so Osama escapes, 3 times.

 

It doesn't make sense that they would let Osama run free, but catch Hussien.

 

Do you know how many attempts it took them to catch Hussien?

 

Quote:

I really wish you'd do some research into these issues.  You speak like a Bush supporting 14-year old that is totally unaware of the political strategies that would naturally be favored by guilty presidents that wish to illegally kill and grab up land, while keeping that agenda hidden to their own countrymen.

 

I'm actually 23, I'm not American, and I don't support Bush.

 

Like I told you in the other topic, just because I don't think Bush did 9/11, doesn't mean I support him.