Pseudo-science gains clout in Japan

inspectormustard
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Pseudo-science gains clout in Japan

While browsing the news I found that a Japanese corporation called "Genepax" has bought into the water-as-fuel hubbub. It seems pretty clear to me that this is sheer madness from the animation they have here: http://www.genepax.co.jp/en/mechanism/system.htm

To reiterate the animation, numbering the chambers left to right as 1 through 5,

  1. H20 enters 1, O2 enters 5.
  2. Chemical reaction???
  3. 1 O enters 4
  4. 2 H+ and 2 e- enter 2
  5. 2 e- pass through a circuit, 2 H+ enter 3
  6. 2 e- enter 3 (drawn by the presence of 2 H+ and one O in 3?)
  7. 1 O enters 4
  8. H2O forms and enters 5
  9. Repeat.

The thing that concerns me is step 2, where something magic happens that doesn't draw more energy than the system provides AND splits the water molecule up into its component atoms. Any thoughts?


TomJ
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Underpants gnomes!

Is actually this!

Step 2 ???? (Chemical Reaction)...

 


TomJ
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Seriously

But seriously,

Water is a fairly stable molecule that doesn't rip apart easily.  That's why electrolysis is most commonly used to break apart water into hydrogen and oxygen.

Magnesium will also react with water and give off hydrogen, the problem is that the magnesium is eventually consumed and takes all the oxygen with it.  Sodium and Potassium give similar results.  These reactive metals also give off lots of heat which helps the newly liberated hydrogen react with atmospheric oxygen.  All this makes for a dazzling sound and light show.

Would be nice to know what the mystery chemical reaction is.

Remember how you figured out there is no Santa? Well, their god is just like Santa. They just haven’t figured out he’s not real yet.


inspectormustard
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You know, I was tempted to

You know, I was tempted to phrase that as

  1. Water and oxygen go in
  2. ???
  3. Profit!

 


EXC
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Did you ever notice that all

Did you ever notice that all irrationality, scams, hoaxes, religion, etc..  have their basis in the lie/wish thinking that you can get something for nothing or you can get more out of something than you put in. It's either:

0 + 0 = 1

or

2 + 2 = 5

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


inspectormustard
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Yeah.willpower + god = win!

Yeah.

willpower + god = win!


TomJ
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The secret!

I found some interesting information on some other websites.  Their technology probably isn't really pseudoscience, it's false advertising. Their reactor will require more than just water to run. 

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/

Quote:

The basic power generation mechanism of the new system is similar to that of a normal fuel cell, which uses hydrogen as a fuel. According to Genepax, the main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction.

Though the company did not reveal the details, it "succeeded in adopting a well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA," said Hirasawa Kiyoshi, the company's president. This process is allegedly similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water. But compared with the existing method, the new process is expected to produce hydrogen from water for longer time, the company said.

 

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080616/153301/

Quote:

Genepax uses a metal or a metal compound that can cause an oxidation reaction with water at room temperature, the company said. Metals that react with water include lithium, sodium, magnesium, potassium and calcium. The main feature of the Water Energy System is that it can be operated for a longer period of time by controlling the reaction of the metal or the metal compound, the company said.

According to Genepax, the metal or the metal compound is supported by a porous body such as zeolite inside the fuel electrode of the membrane electrode assembly (MEA). The products of the hydrogen generation reaction dissolves in water, and the water containing them will be discharged with water inside the system. Upon the completion of the reaction, the generation of hydrogen and power stops.

So their system not only requires water, but a Group 1 or 2 metal to liberate the hydrogen from the water.

Remember how you figured out there is no Santa? Well, their god is just like Santa. They just haven’t figured out he’s not real yet.


theotherguy
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TomJ wrote:I found some

TomJ wrote:

I found some interesting information on some other websites.  Their technology probably isn't really pseudoscience, it's false advertising. Their reactor will require more than just water to run. 

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080613/153276/

Quote:

The basic power generation mechanism of the new system is similar to that of a normal fuel cell, which uses hydrogen as a fuel. According to Genepax, the main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction.

Though the company did not reveal the details, it "succeeded in adopting a well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA," said Hirasawa Kiyoshi, the company's president. This process is allegedly similar to the mechanism that produces hydrogen by a reaction of metal hydride and water. But compared with the existing method, the new process is expected to produce hydrogen from water for longer time, the company said.

 

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080616/153301/

Quote:

Genepax uses a metal or a metal compound that can cause an oxidation reaction with water at room temperature, the company said. Metals that react with water include lithium, sodium, magnesium, potassium and calcium. The main feature of the Water Energy System is that it can be operated for a longer period of time by controlling the reaction of the metal or the metal compound, the company said.

According to Genepax, the metal or the metal compound is supported by a porous body such as zeolite inside the fuel electrode of the membrane electrode assembly (MEA). The products of the hydrogen generation reaction dissolves in water, and the water containing them will be discharged with water inside the system. Upon the completion of the reaction, the generation of hydrogen and power stops.

So their system not only requires water, but a Group 1 or 2 metal to liberate the hydrogen from the water.

 

Something tells me the production of their magical metal requires more energy than the fuel cell produces.


MichaelMcF
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I'm not entirely convinced

I'm not entirely convinced they're claiming energy from nothing.  Their site seems to suggest that this is a system initially powered by another engine which then becomes self-sustaining once the process is go, so there is some input of energy at the start.

I would like to know what the mystery reaction is though.  My guess would be electrolysis, although I wouldn't be so sure about the metal being an earth metal.  Those are just listed as materials that react with water.  It's no guarantee that's what they're using.

 

M

Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here
- Lawrence Krauss


inspectormustard
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The problem is electrolysis

The problem is electrolysis needs a lot of energy. It seems they're using some magic element that doesn't contribute energy to the reaction but uses less energy than normally required to perform the act.

You're right, the generator is a separate box used to charge whatever it is that needs charging.


MichaelMcF
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inspectormustard wrote:The

inspectormustard wrote:

The problem is electrolysis needs a lot of energy. It seems they're using some magic element that doesn't contribute energy to the reaction but uses less energy than normally required to perform the act.

 

That'll be whatever their magic catalyst is then.  I'm also assuming their membrane is somehow tuned to allow high speed diffusion of protons to stop recombination of the ions in water.

I'm not sure I believe any of it...especially as they're not officially releasing any power values (according to their FAQ)

 

M

Forget Jesus, the stars died so that you could be here
- Lawrence Krauss


FulltimeDefendent
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Is this by any chance a

Is this by any chance a ttributed to Dr. Emoto of "What the bleep?"


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I f*kin HATE pseudo science.

I f*kin HATE pseudo science.

As if it isn't hard enough getting people to understand science without throwing crap around!

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Jesus said, "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." - Luke 12:51


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TANSTAAFL

TANSTAAFL