Illegal Drugs

pyrokidd
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Illegal Drugs

So in another thread about people's controversial beliefs I went on a little rant:

pyrokidd wrote:

There are soooo many reasons drugs are illegal, but few have to do with what the fucking government tells us. More than anything, the drug war as we know it today is a way to crush political dissent. All those hippies doing acid/pot/mushrooms in the 60's were very "socially corrosive". Yeah, they were fucking with the system pretty bad, and you know the system doesn't like to be fucked with. More than just hippies, other minorities that used drugs could now be prosecuted(black militants, mexican immigrants, etc.) The "indirect harm" you refer to isn't so much that they really harm anyone so much as they harm the industrial system.

LSD has never been shown to do long term harm, even by the government's standards. Marijuana's harm is little, especially when compared to alcohol and tobacco products. Ecstasy, when not abused, has been shown to be very effective in improving people's relationships. It was originally used by marriage counselors. But all of these often cause people to question the value of their place in society, and the system can't operate that way.

Then you get to some of the harder drugs; meth, coke, and heroin. These are most certainly addictive and dangerous, but you can be prescribed perfectly legal drugs with more or less the same effects. For instance, Oxycodone is an opiate very similar to heroin. Morphine, used in hospitals, basically IS heroin. In fact, heroin turns into morphine once it metabolizes in your liver.

The drug war is no more than a way to further control the masses

MattShizzle pointed out that the religious idea "if it feels good, it's bad" probably comes into play.

I wanted to go into more detail about it, though. Is the idea of illegal drugs irrational?

"We are the star things harvesting the star energy"
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jmm
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pyrokidd wrote:Is the idea

pyrokidd wrote:

Is the idea of illegal drugs irrational?

Yes. 


kellym78
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NO.

NO.


Yellow_Number_Five
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Why would taking any illegal

Why would taking any illegal drug be irrational?

Other than the risk of incarceration I cannot think of a reason not to self medicate, and that really is what it is, so long as one does so with a degree of restraint and education.

I've tried pretty much every illicit drug under the sun that doesn't take a needle to ingest. Pot, mushrooms, meth, ketamine, cocaine, MDMA, LSD, hash, PCP, etc, and this doesn't included the drugs that are actually legal; oxy, valium, adderal, riddelin, etc.

I'm don't often do any of those things today, at age 31, working for a company that does conduct random pee tests. But in college, I pretty much did it all, and I graduated with dual degrees in science and engineering from a respected university with a 3.6 GPA.

If you understand what you are taking and what it does and can do to you, why shouldn't you be allowed to take it? As far as I'm concerned, if it is legal to drink a beer it ought to be legal to smoke a joint or inhale a line of cocaine. As long as you don't hurt anyone else while doing it, why should it matter?

I don't consider it irresponsible or irrational to explore. I also don't consider it irresponsible or irrational to ingest a substance for pleasure when you know what the result will be. If that is irrational, then so is any other pleasure with any inherent risk - like sex, rock climbing, sky diving, racing, or swimming. It is irrational to destroy yourself, it is not irrational to enjoy yourself. At some point one becomes the other and it takes a rational person to see that.

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ctn
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in 1913 when drugs where

in 1913 when drugs where legal the addiction rate was 1,3%

in 1970 when the war on drugs started the addiction rate was 1,3%

in 2006 the addiction rate is 1,3%

IMO drugs being Iligal is more probelms than its worth, like Al Capone with alcohol pohibation have given birth to drug cartels and crime waves. and lack of a watchdog means adicts dies from bad unclean products.

if nothing in terms of addiction rates is gained by phohibataion, and crime waves comes as a result Idd say Irational

 

 


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pyrokidd wrote:Is the idea

pyrokidd wrote:

Is the idea of illegal drugs irrational?

It should be measured in terms of the harm it does to society, objectively. What governmet should do is require an an ID check to buy all drugs. If one is on probation for a criminal offence or one is on welfare, it needs to be illegal for these people. This should include drugs like cigarettes and alcohol. There are some drugs that are so addictive or cause people to become violent that they should only be prescribed by doctors.

The war on drugs by the religious is driven by economics. Drugs are competition to the drug of religion.

 

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.” Seneca


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One of these days I'm gonna

One of these days I'm gonna try DMT.  The most fucked up drug is the one that is produced by your own brain - the pineal gland:

 

 

 

I love pot n shrooms.

-RR

 


pauljohntheskeptic
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pyrokidd wrote:MattShizzle

pyrokidd wrote:

MattShizzle pointed out that the religious idea "if it feels good, it's bad" probably comes into play.

I wanted to go into more detail about it, though. Is the idea of illegal drugs irrational?

Using drugs is not irrational, using anything to excess that causes you harm is. We have drug laws because the government desires to control our actions. It's you body to do with as you chose. It's funny how politicians claim they are in favor of less government yet they want to control your personal life.

My mother originally a Luthern school teacher eventually became involved in psychiatry. During the late 70s she was the director of a large state operated drug treatment center at a state hospital. Though she was religious even after her involvement in psychiatry she came to the conclusion all drugs should be legalized. This was after working in alcohol/drug treatment centers for around 20 years. Her reasons were people have a right to do what they wish to themselves. She also saw that addicts would contiune to be addicted no matter what.

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pyrokidd
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ctn wrote:in 1913 when drugs

ctn wrote:

in 1913 when drugs where legal the addiction rate was 1,3%

in 1970 when the war on drugs started the addiction rate was 1,3%

in 2006 the addiction rate is 1,3%

Do you have any sources to back this up? I consider statistics like this to be largely irrelevant in most cases but if you could give me something to verify this in any way that would be helpful.

 

EXC wrote:

The war on drugs by the religious is driven by economics. Drugs are competition to the drug of religion.

Very well put. I need to remember that one.

 

Well it seems most people seem so far to agree taking drugs isn't bad, but abusing them is, and that making them illegal is irrational, unless of course there is something in it for you which we see with religion and many politicians. Except for this one glaring

kellym78 wrote:

NO.

Well? Don't leave it at that! Give a reason. Or hopefully a few.

"We are the star things harvesting the star energy"
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ctn
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pyrokidd wrote:ctn wrote:in

pyrokidd wrote:

ctn wrote:

in 1913 when drugs where legal the addiction rate was 1,3%

in 1970 when the war on drugs started the addiction rate was 1,3%

in 2006 the addiction rate is 1,3%

Do you have any sources to back this up? I consider statistics like this to be largely irrelevant in most cases but if you could give me something to verify this in any way that would be helpful.

 

I saw it in a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugdjcmrxkNY&feature=related

didnt check the kredits, Ill look into it.


ctn
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John Kane , How Effective is

John Kane , How Effective is the Current Drug Policy ?

Presented At: University of Denver Faculty Forum. May 3, 2001.


jmm
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jmm wrote:pyrokidd wrote:Is

jmm wrote:

pyrokidd wrote:

Is the idea of illegal drugs irrational?

Yes. 

Wait a second...your question is extraordinarily vague.  Do you mean "Is it irrational to make some drugs illegal?", or "Is it irrational to use drugs which are currently deemed illegal?"?

I was saying yes to the former. 


Yellow_Number_Five
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Thanks for the

Thanks for the clarificaiton, jmm.

Could you further clarify though, You say it is "Irrational to make some drugs illegal" - what do you mean by "some"?

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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pyrokidd
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I mean the laws we have in

I mean the laws we have in place regarding the restrictions of certain substances. They are not 'banned', because anyone with a federal license can still handle/distribute/use them. Of course these licenses are impossible to obtain. Actually making the drugs completely illegal would be outright unconstitutional, and the writers of the drug laws knew it.

The question is: are the laws pertaining to 'controlled substances' and especially the modern 'War on  Drugs" irrational.

"We are the star things harvesting the star energy"
-Carl Sagan