Ignorant representation of RRS and Christianity [YOU RESPOND]

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Ignorant representation of RRS and Christianity [YOU RESPOND]

From:
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:23 AM
To: <generalq@rationalresponders.com>
Subject: [General Question] a few suggestions

 

Christopher Nelson sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.rationalresponders.com/contact.

After going over your site i have thought of more appropriate names for
your squad. Feel free to use any of them.

Irrational response squad

we really hate christians  response squad

condesending response  squad

prideful arrogance response squad

sinful action  response squad

We think we know more, but we don't response squad

Same old anti christian garbage  response squad

false science response squad

yes we really are idiots response squad

look how great we are response squad

God gets in our selfish ways response squad

Got God? then we are above you  ha ha response squad

immature, us? response squad

excuses for being sinful response squad

deep down we want to exterminate christians response squad

make christianity illegal response squad

ban the bible response squad

we hate freedom of religion when it comes to christians response squad

screw the founding fathers response squad

Christians gave us the constitutional right to attack them response squad

Arent we smart response squad

no we are not too smart response squad

God is dead because we say so response squad.

 

 

 


> From: admin@rationalresponders.com
> To: cwnelson79@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [General Question] a few suggestions
> Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:59:33 -0500
>
> Or how about, we bring out the true colors in Christians Squad who are
> actually less moral than atheists.

 


 

Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 5:34 PM
Subject: RE: [General Question] a few suggestions
 

true colors? less moral than atheists?  Considering morals come from the bible, and any false religion or group exspousing them is actually only borrowing from the bible and christians.  I know of no atheist morals that atheist founded on their own.  unless do what you want and don't worry about sinning is a moral.


From:

 

To:

 

Subject: Re: [General Question] a few suggestions

 

Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:20:51 -0500

 

Look up Code of Hammurabi which predates Christianity by a long shot (and partially where they stole their morals from and duped you) and this:
 
 
Get a clue before you break the glass roof of yours.
 
In Rationality,
 
 
 

 

Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:11 AM
Subject: RE: [General Question] a few suggestions
 

You assume alot. I know all about Hammurabi. There are a couple problems tho. First, this does not point to an atheist making moral principals. This has to do with religion  in babylon and a set of laws.  Altho the proper functioning of law depends on the existence of an ultimate authority. But if they were written by only a man, then they are no more ‘right’ than someone else’s opposite view. In rejecting biblical absolutes then whats the point, morals become a he said she said and anything goes.  The bible deals from creation on, and thus predates Hammurabi anyway. And isnt it odd to have so many  ancient accounts of a flood. Ofcourse you will have similar stories that come from a common theme or occurance.  You think Hammurabi pulled these laws out of his ass?   Again tho, this denys atheistic morals anyway so its kind of a mute point in your argument. You point to a non christian, but its still not an atheist.  And i was so so curious what the true colors of a christian are, and how they are less moral then an atheist who has no ultimate guide other then their fallabile choices to guide them.  God Bless.

 

 


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sinful action response squad

Sinful action response squad? They already had one of these in Christianity, it was called the inquisition. The sinful action response squads in Afghanistan are still alive and thriving under the name of the Vice and Virtue Department.


false science response squad? What science that has been presented here is false?

These are merely absurd childish comments written by someone who thinks no one has the right to question his beliefs? Go check out some Christian or Islamic boards and see what they think of Atheists. I think you will see "love thy neighbour" is a quaint idea that is definitely not in practice.

 

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


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Wow. Just wow. Morals

Wow. Just wow. Morals certainly don't come from the Buybull otherwise cultures that never heard of it would have been quite evil. And what about the extremely immoral things in that asshat book such as executing people for being gay, changing their religion, disrespecting their parents, gathering sticks on Sunday (or is it Saturday?), making a certain hair tonic, etc. Or forcing a woman to marry her rapist - unless she didn't scream loud enough for people to hear, then she's executed , allowing slavery, genocide, etc. Morality comes from a combination of common sense, empathy and upbringing. Not a completely absurd and horrific fairy tale.

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So much to respond to, so little time...

Ah, well...

 

1. "Irrational response squad," eh?  Well, then it should be no trouble at all for you to come to this site, and easily prove the existence of God, the truth of Christianity in general, and the truth of your particular brand of Christianity.  Please...proceed.  (This also goes for the "False Science Response Squad" one.)

 

2. Let's see... the "We Really Hate Christians Response Squad?"  Uh...most folks here...including myself...used to *be* Christians.  (In my case...Roman Catholic flavor.)   We also have no desire to ban the Bible (it's much too useful of a weapon against Christianity,) or to make Christianity illegal.  (Contrary to popular Christian opinion, there *is* a difference between disestablishing a religion on the one hand, and outlawing it on the other.)

 

3. The "We Hate Freedom Of Religion When It Comes To Christians Response Squad"...um...I defy the writer of this nonsense to *directly* *quote* any atheist on this site who has written that Christianity, and only Christianity, should not benefit from a proper Constitutionally-based freedom to operate, even if it is based on a rather cruel collection of fairy tales.

 

4. The "Screw The Founding Fathers Response Squad?"  Do you mean the Founding Fathers of the United States of America?  As in, say, Benjamin Franklin who said that "Lighthouses are more useful than churches?"  Or maybe Thomas Paine, who noted that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all regard each other as disbelievers, and then added, "...and I for my part, disbelieve them all?"  Or maybe Thomas Jefferson, who advised to "Question boldly even the existence of God...?"

 

Conor

__________________________________________________________________________

"Faith does not fear reason."--Pope Pius XII

"But it should!"--Me


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Quote:You assume alot. I

Quote:

You assume alot. I know all about Hammurabi. There are a couple problems tho. First, this does not point to an atheist making moral principals. This has to do with religion  in babylon and a set of laws.  Altho the proper functioning of law depends on the existence of an ultimate authority. But if they were written by only a man, then they are no more ‘right’ than someone else’s opposite view. In rejecting biblical absolutes then whats the point, morals become a he said she said and anything goes.

But you just admitted that the CoH was a religiously-informed code of moral laws just like the Bible! As far as I can see, it is you that is playing he-said-she-said. Why should we take Moses' word over Hammurabi?

Quote:

The bible deals from creation on, and thus predates Hammurabi anyway.

Once upon a time there was a guy that was even older than God. The end.

My little story above deals with something before creation. Does that mean it predates the Bible?

Quote:

And isnt it odd to have so many  ancient accounts of a flood.

Not if there actually were floods in ancient times. I'm guessing there were.

Quote:

Ofcourse you will have similar stories that come from a common theme or occurance.  You think Hammurabi pulled these laws out of his ass?   Again tho, this denys atheistic morals anyway so its kind of a mute point in your argument. You point to a non christian, but its still not an atheist.  And i was so so curious what the true colors of a christian are, and how they are less moral then an atheist who has no ultimate guide other then their fallabile choices to guide them.  God Bless.

Morals are, by definition, a commonly accepted standard. So they are never a matter of purely personal preference. Can humans create common standards without the aid of God? I think you'd have to admit they can, unless you want to say that God made the rules of the NFL. So if morals are common standards and if humans can create common standards then I see no reason why humans couldn't create morals.

Of course, there is also the fact that every moral ever known was created by humans. Before you can argue this point, you will have to prove that something else exists which might have done the job. Let's see your evidence for God, champ.

 

Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown


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Tilberian,  Something can

Tilberian,  Something can be religiously formed and be wrong. Pagan religions are full of immoral religious activity.  Moses gets his authority from God, the other guy does not, very simple. 

 

No, your sentence dealt with sarcasm, not  reality. sorry

 

And as far as the flood, these acient accounts are not of some flood here and there. But of a global flood.

 

Morals are a commonly accepted standard? So if a group gets together and decides throwing children into a volcano is ok then its moral? Thats not morality, thats humanistic man made garbage. True morality has to come from an ultimate source to be cohesive and real. Not just some random thing people agree upon which could be immoral in reality. If you don't have God telling you what is or what is not, then you are making it up as you go along. The NFL example are rules, not morals, they have nothing to do with being a decent person.

 

As far as me proving God, common sense does that. But further more, you cannot disprove God.

 


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Connor,  Whatever you wish

Connor,  Whatever you wish for me to prove i can help you understand. But  expecting random clumps of things is not gonna work too well in a logical way.

 

As far as you being a catholic before, i can see part of the problem. I feel alot of catholicism is not biblical  and might turn people away. Like the homosexual , pedophile priest scandal issue. I have no problem with atheists trying to disable as you say christianity. As long as its fair, accurate and  lawful.

 

 

The truth is, most atheists would prefer christians to not respond or to simply go away. They would love freedom of speech to be denied to christians, thats why atheists often attack supposed Christians issues like God on the money ,or the pledge.

 

I don't usually like to play the quote game alot. But if you want to talk about Benjamin Franklin,In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern." In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

 

Thomas Pain said: “ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”

 

And Tommy jefferson said: “ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”   "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

 

 


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Mattshizzle: The buybull,

Mattshizzle: The buybull, now thats creative.  Cultures without the bible were very immoral and degenerate in their actions. And on what bases do you make claims that the bible was immoral? Do you supercede God? If you are going to make accusations then have the bible verses ready otherwise its a useless argument.


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Nice to have you here

Nice to have you here Christopher.  Consider registering for an account so you don't have to wait for us to approve your comments in the anonymous poster crowd.

 

 

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HeyZeusCreaseToe: The

HeyZeusCreaseToe: The inquisition was catholic, not biblical. Infact alot of Christians have suffered because of catholic actions.  The Islamic religion is false, so i do not care what they do.

 

And as far as false science presented here, we can start with evolution.

 

Who said no one has a right to question my beliefs? You apparently think no one has a right to respond back when being questioned. And again don't make blanket statements about what christians think of atheists on some make believe board somewhere. As far as islam, i cannot vouch for their false religion.

 

As far as love thy neighbor, how did jesus do this? He told people when they were  doing wrong, and told them to go and sin no more.


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Brian, I can try and make an

Brian, I can try and make an account, i did 2 time before and it was either deleted for some reason or never went through for whatever reason.


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Go here if you want to see

Go here if you want to see the actual parts of the Buybull:

http://www.evilbible.com

or http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

 

Yes I do supercede god because I actually exist.

 

 

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

Richard Dawkins

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The idea that not having "in

The idea that not having "in god we trust" on the money or "under god" in the pledge is typical of the 1984-esque thinking of Christards. You seem to feel persecuted when you are prevented from persecuting others. How would you feel if it said "one nation under allah" or "one nation where we are intelligent enough to not believe in a god." how about "in flying spaghetti monster we trust" or "in reason we trust" (which wouldn't even be biased!) "E Pluribus Unum" was a much better slogan until militant Christards in the 1950s decided to force their bullshit down everyone else's throat.

DEAR BELIEVER:

 

by Dan Barker

Dear Believer, — You asked me to consider Christianity as the answer for my life. I have done that. I consider it untrue, repugnant, and harmful.
 

You expect me to believe Jesus was born of a virgin impregnated by a ghost? Do you believe all the crazy tales of ancient religions? Julius Caesar was reportedly born of a virgin; Roman historian Seutonius said Augustus bodily rose to heaven when he died; and Buddha was supposedly born speaking. You don't believe all that, do you? Why do you expect me to swallow the fables of Christianity?
I find it incredible that you ask me to believe that the earth was created in six literal days; women come from a man's rib; a snake, a donkey, and a burning bush spoke human language; the entire world was flooded, covering the mountains to drown evil; all animal species, millions of them, rode on one boat; language variations stem from the tower of Babel; Moses had a magic wand; the Nile turned to blood; a stick turned into a snake; witches, wizards, and sorcerers really exist; food rained from the sky for 40 years; people were cured by the sight of a brass serpent; the sun stood still to help Joshua win a battle, and it went backward for King Hezekiah; men survived unaided in a fiery furnace; a detached hand floated in the air and wrote on a wall; men followed a star which directed them to a particular house; Jesus walked on water unaided; fish and bread magically multiplied to feed the hungry; water instantly turned into wine; mental illness is caused by demons; a "devil" with wings exists who causes evil; people were healed by stepping into a pool agitated by angels; disembodied voiced spoke from the sky; Jesus vanished and later materialized from thin air; people were healed by Peter's shadow; angels broke people out of jail; a fiery lake of eternal torment awaits unbelievers under the earth ... while there is life-after-death in a city which is 1,500 miles cubed, with mansions and food, for Christians only.
If you believe these stories, then you are the one with the problem, not me. These myths violate natural law, contradict science, and fail to correspond with reality or logic. If you can't see that, then you can't separate truth from fantasy. It doesn't matter how many people accept delusions inflicted by "holy" men; a widely held lie is still a lie. If you are so gullible, then you are like the child who believes the older brother who says there is a monster in the hallway. But there is nothing to be afraid of; go turn on the light and look for yourself.
If Christianity were simply untrue I would not be too concerned. Santa is untrue, but it is a harmless myth which people outgrow. But Christianity, besides being false, is also abhorrent. It amazes me that you claim to love the god of the bible, a hateful, arrogant, sexist, cruel being who can't tolerate criticism. I would not want to live in the same neighborhood with such a creature!
The biblical god is a macho male warrior. Though he said "Thou shalt not kill," he ordered death for all opposition, wholesale drowning and mass exterminations; punishes offspring to the fourth generation (Ex. 20:5); ordered pregnant women and children to be ripped up (Hos. 13:16); demands animal and human blood to appease his angry vanity; is partial to one race of people; judges women to be inferior to men; is a sadist who created a hell to torture unbelievers; created evil (Is. 45:7); discriminated against the handicapped (Lev. 21:18-23); ordered virgins to be kept as spoils of war (Num. 31:15-18, Deut. 21:11-14); spread dung on people's faces (Mal. 2:3); sent bears to devour 42 children who teased a prophet (II Kings 2:23-24); punishes people with snakes, dogs, dragons, drunkenness, swords, arrows, axes, fire, famine, and infanticide; and said fathers should eat their sons (Ez. 5:10). Is that nice? Would you want to live next door to such a person?
And Jesus is a chip off the old block. He said, "I and my father are one," and he upheld "every jot and tittle" of the Old Testament law. Mt. 5:18 He preached the same old judgment: vengeance and death, wrath and distress, hell and torture for all nonconformists. He believed in demons, angels and spirits. He never denounced the subjugation of slaves or women. Women were excluded as disciples and as guests at his heavenly table. Except for hell he introduced nothing new to ethics or philosophy. He was disrespectful of his mother and brothers; he said we should hate our parents and desert our families. Mt. 10:35-36, Lk. 14:26 (So much for "Christian family life.&quotEye-wink He denounced anger, but was often angry himself. Mt. 5:22, Mk. 3:5 He called people "fools" (Mt. 23:17,19), "serpents," and "white sepulchers," though he warned that such language puts you in danger of hellfire. Mt. 5:22 He said "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I came not to send peace, but a sword." Mt. 10:34 (So much for "Peace on Earth.&quotEye-wink He irrationally cursed and withered a fig tree for being barren out of season. Mt. 21:19 He mandated burning unbelievers. Jn. 15:6 (The Church has complied with relish.) He stole a horse. Lk. 19:30-33 He told people to cut off hands, feet, eyes and sexual organs. Mt. 5:29-30, 19:12 You want me to accept Jesus, but I think I'll pick my own friend, thank you.
One of Jesus's many contradictions was saying good works should be seen, and not seen. Mt. 5:16, 6:1-4 One of his mistakes was saying that the mustard plant has the smallest seed. Mt. 13:31-32 The writers of Matthew and Luke could not even get his genealogy straight, contradicting the Old Testament, and giving Jesus two discrepant lines through Joseph, his non-father!
I also find Christianity to be morally repugnant. The concepts of original sin, depravity, substitutionary forgiveness, intolerance, eternal punishment, and humble worship are all beneath the dignity of intelligent human beings and conflict with the values of kindness and reason. They are barbaric ideas for primitive cultures cowering in fear and ignorance.
Finally, Christianity is harmful. More people have been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason. The Church has a shameful, bloody history of Crusades, Inquisitions, witch-burnings, heresy trials, American colonial intolerance, disrespect of indigenous traditions (such as American Indians), support of slavery, and oppression of women. Modern "fruits" of religion include the Jonestown massacre, the callous fraud of "faith healers," recent wars and ethnic cleansing, and fighting in Northern Ireland. Religion also poses a danger to mental health, damaging self-respect, personal responsibility, and clarity of thought.
Do you see why I do not respect the biblical message? It is an insulting bag of nonsense. You have every right to torment yourself with such insanity — but leave me out of it. I have better things to do with my life.

 

Matt Shizzle has been banned from the Rational Response Squad website. This event shall provide an atmosphere more conducive to social growth. - Majority of the mod team


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Christopher Nelson wrote:As

Christopher Nelson wrote:

As far as me proving God, common sense does that. But further more, you cannot disprove God.

Argument from ignorance and shifiting burden of proof.

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:

As far as you being a catholic before, i can see part of the problem. I feel alot of catholicism is not biblical  and might turn people away. Like the homosexual , pedophile priest scandal issue. I have no problem with atheists trying to disable as you say christianity. As long as its fair, accurate and  lawful.

No True Scotsman fallacy.This is fun..

 

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:

The truth is, most atheists would prefer christians to not respond or to simply go away. They would love freedom of speech to be denied to christians, thats why atheists often attack supposed Christians issues like God on the money ,or the pledge.

 

How is god on money etc a supposed christian issue?As opposed to what? A supposed muslim issue?

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


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Christopher Nelson

Christopher Nelson wrote:

Brian, I can try and make an account, i did 2 time before and it was either deleted for some reason or never went through for whatever reason.

 

I sent you an email on how to access your account.

- Brian Sapient


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Christopher Nelson wrote:In

Christopher Nelson wrote:
In rejecting biblical absolutes then whats the point, morals become a he said she said and anything goes. 

 

"biblical absolutes"?  Please provide an example.

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:
The bible deals from creation on, and thus predates Hammurabi anyway.

 

The creation myth, Eridu Genesis, predates the biblical one.  So I guess that makes the Sumerians the authority on morals, right?

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:
And isnt it odd to have so many  ancient accounts of a flood.

 

Isn't it odd that the Chinese and Indians have no comparable accounts of a global flood?  Actually it isn't odd.  If there were floods in the Middle East, we would expect accounts from the Middle East of such.  If there wasn't a global flood (geologically unattested, and geologically impossibile, by the way), we wouldn't expect accounts from other parts of the world.

 

Oh and isn't it odd that the aforementioned Eridu Genesis has a flood story?  The gods (not god) cause a flood to occur, a man (whose name is not noah) builds an ark and survives the flood.

 

What is more likely?  The Sumerians botched their account of the flood 8 centuries before the Hebrews got around to writing the true version, or the Hebrews co-opted an existing myth?

 

Isn't it odd that you're using a plagiarized story of a flood to claim your moral superiority?

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:
You think Hammurabi pulled these laws out of his ass?

 

Might as well.  By all indication, that's where yahweh pulls his laws from.

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:

 

Tilberian,  Something can be religiously formed and be wrong.

 

Correct.  Take christianity, for example.

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:

 

Pagan religions are full of immoral religious activity. 

 

Correct.  As is christianity.

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:
Moses gets his authority from God, the other guy does not, very simple.

 

moses gets his auth from the hebrew god.  Hammurabbi gets his from the babylonian god -- who came before the hebrew god.  Very simple.

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:

 

As far as me proving God, common sense does that. But further more, you cannot disprove God.

 

 

 

Can you disprove any of the gods you don't believe in? 

 

There are no theists on operating tables.

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Wow , Christopher Nelson ,

Wow , Christopher Nelson , you really care , that is good , the world is indeed sick ,

  You have found a place of healing, the blessed RRS , Jesus would love this place .....  geezz, all the ancient people would .... Stick around and so will you.

Atheists care and are angry too at the sick world ..... You care too, right ?  What IS the enemy  ???

  I will make you a deal ... You heal the Atheists and I will heal the Religious, then there will be no more of this sickness of GOD separation .... and no need evermore for Atheists and Theists. 

You are god too, as the Christ is in you too, Right ??? This NOW is GOD, we are ONE, said a jesus !

   ..... "Divided we fall" .....

CANNED HEAT - Let's Work Together (1970)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwVwQVtPZRw

 

  


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Hotmail problems

Sapient wrote:

Christopher Nelson wrote:

Brian, I can try and make an account, i did 2 time before and it was either deleted for some reason or never went through for whatever reason.

 

I sent you an email on how to access your account.

OFFTOPIC: I registered on a hotmail account for the first time as well, I did not get any response. However, when I used my corporate e-mail, I got an answer instantly, and was able to log in. Three weeks later, I got a reminder in my hotmail mailbox that you have not seen me for a long time, and suggested that I should visit the RRS website.


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 Christopher Nelson

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:
In rejecting biblical absolutes then whats the point, morals become a he said she said and anything goes. 

 

 

     Argument from Morality.

Premises: It is impossible to be moral without god, the bible is the ultimate source of morality.

Problem: This is very insulting to the atheist, and completely baseless. First you have to accept the bible is the source of morality. There is no reason to believe anything in it is true, and do you really want to live by a book that has this:

Killing innocent babies-Exodus 12:29

You must kill your child if they disobey you-Exodus 21:15

Beat your slave, just make sure he doesn’t die! Exodus 21:20-21

They complete destruction of peoples, including infants, women, and animals. 1 Samuel 15:2-3

Giving your daughter away to her cousin in payment for his killing someone. Joshua 15:16-17

Condones child sacrifice. Judges 11:29-40

Sell your clothes to buy swords. Luke 22:36

Less than 1% of America’s prison population is atheist. (http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html ) Even if those numbers are skewed, there are still a lot more christians than atheists in prison. Obviously, there are a lot more christians than atheists in every facet of American life, but should there be any in prison in the first place if they have the moral high ground?

The buckle of the Bible Belt has extremely high levels of teen pregnancy, (http://www.physorg.com/news104658683.html )violence,( Louisiana has the highest churchgoing rate in the country, but its murder rate is more than twice the national average) and religious intolerance . Why if christians are so much better?

Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible

dudeofthemoment wrote:
This is getting redudnant. My patience with the unteachable[atheists] is limited.

Argument from Sadism: Theist presents argument in a wall of text with no punctuation and wrong spelling. Atheist cannot read and is forced to concede.


Conor Wilson
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My response

1.  "Random clumps of things is not gonna work too well in a logical way?"  These are *your* words, Christopher, not mine.  May I recommend that you take a second look at your OP, which strikes me as *nothing* *but* "random clumps of things."  At least I had *some* organization in my post.  BTW, your entire OP is an ad hominem attack on the RRS.  Just so you know.

 

2. Would you like me to admit that your knowledge of the words of the Founding Fathers exceeds mine?  Consider it done.  I freely admit that I know very little about their words, and as such, am unprepared to respond to most of your post in any adequate way.  Now: can you admit that both in your OP, and in your post to me directly, that you have engaged in rather wild accusations against atheists--such as, "They would love freedom of speech to be denied to Christians...."  This charge is entirely spurious.  I would love to see some backing for this.  The majority of atheists that I have seen take up the issue on this site seem to me to be libertarians where speech is concerned.  Which is to say, they oppose *any* government regulation of speech, even hateful speech, against *any* group.  Go ahead, provide me with an example of atheists attempting to restrict the speech of Christians--or anybody else.  Note carefully, though: I am *not* willing to accept critiques, censuring (which is a different thing from "censoring&quotEye-wink or promotion of an opposing viewpoint as evidence of "denying freedom of speech to Christians."  Only an actual attempt (or an actual public statement in support of such an attempt) at such denial will be accepted as evidence.

 

3. As for Roman Catholic Christianity...well...I'm certainly not going to defend the pedophiliac priest scandal, or the ecclesiastical non-response to it.  That said, I would like to be clear that that had nothing to do with my rejection of either Christianity in general, or Catholic Christianity in particular.  My initial acceptance of it was based on the idea that it was *true,* and what I ran into was evidence of its *falsehood.*  The evidence that I ran into also persuaded me that Evagelical (and other Protestant) Christianity was also false.  Then I went through a brief period of soul-searching, then through another brief period with the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints (...you should be able to tell that I wanted Christianity to be true, somehow...) then through a period of...well...taking a break from religion.  This period included a lot of reading, and somehow books like "Breaking The Spell," "The End Of Faith," and "god is not great" ended up in my reading material.  Even after this, it was still a while before I saw myself as an atheist.

 

4. You made the comment,"I have no problem with atheists trying to disable as you say christianity. As long as its fair, accurate and  lawful."  This is...fascinating.  You *do* realize, don't you, that the term "Christianity" for me (and, I suspect, for many others on this site, as well,) applies just as much to your version of Christian belief, as it does to Roman Catholic belief? 

 

Conor

_____________________________________________________________________

"It is not in the power of any creature, not even of the highest religious authority, to make statements true or false, otherwise than if of their own nature and in actual fact they are true or false."--Galileo Galilei, in "The Authority of Scripture in Philosophical Controversies" (C.E. 1616)


pauljohntheskeptic
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Christopher Nelson

Your satirical attempt at new names shows irritation and anger. It is filled with generalizations and half-truths. I have not seen the attitude you describe except in a few cases. The same can be said of religious groups. There are the Pat Robertson's or Ted Haggerty's who are extremists and hateful possibly hypocritical as well.

 

As to your list:

1)We don't hate Christians only the fact they waste their lives on fantasies. I'd like to lead you all away from your wasted lives just like Christians wish to lead non-believers to Jesus. It's no different.

2)Condescending seems to be a 2 way thing sometimes, it results from exasperation and anger it seems.

3)As to knowing more but not. I don't even know all the questions how could I know the answers? Do you?

4)False science is practiced by only a few of the members who still practice alchemy and bleeding to cure disease. As to evolution being a false science, that is an area for a very long discussion.

5)Got God so we are above you. Unfair comment. I have a niece that is a missionary. A friend who is a nationally known evangelical singer. Another friend who is the director of a religious ministry. We have interesting discussions. No one has plans to convert or deconvert. No one holds belief or disbelief over the other.

6)Ban the Bible. Why? I have 6 copies some with my name embossed and CD versions too. I may think it belongs in Sci-Fi & Fantasy in the library, but banned no. There is interesting writing in it. It contributes to ancient history and knowledge at minimum. Though not accurate it helps to understand the culture of the period.

7)The Founding Fathers. They had conflicted views at times on religion. Admittedly they made both religious and non-religious statements and can be considered both ways. Perhaps that is why religion was not part of the Constitution.

8)Freedom of Religion, constitutional right to attack, and making Christianity illegal. I'm one of those libertarians you heard about on this site. I support your right to believe and say whatever you'd like. Beliefs that get discredited go away on their own, time will tell. Tolerance works both ways. It is irritating to have God put in my face but I understand I'm a minority. I shouldn't have to take an oath including a mythical character in it in my view. In my last few tours of jury duty, the swearing to God were eliminated. That's a little progress. Money should have something else on it similar to "Don't Tread on Me". How about "Many people United".

9)Sin, God is dead etc. I don't take that position. I don't know if he was ever real or not. Sin requires the god.  I could really care what you think as long as it doesn't end up as a law where you impose your beliefs on me. As a libertarian I do not believe in governmental interference in personal lives. If you'd like to commit suicide, it's your life feel free. Barry Goldwater was a good example of a conservative Republican that understood keeping God and the government separate. As Jesus pointed out God is the judge not you.

10)Most of the rest of your satire is from anger and requires no comment.

In your other comments you suggest that atheists wish for Christians to simply go away or keep quiet.  That's hardly the case as I said above. Christians are practicing discrimination by insisting the government should keep God on the money, the pledge or require it in oaths. This occurred with blacks and women in the past and it is no different here. Most Christians came to America to escape religious persecution. You have no right to persecute others that don't believe as you do including Muslims. As an American you have a duty to protect the rights of all citizens to retain or hold views or beliefs that may be divergent from yours. You consider Islam to be a false religion and I consider all of them to be based on mythology and legends. However I will fight for you to have the right to believe that which you do. Will you do that for me or the Muslim?

 

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


Theia
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I like this one: "make

I like this one: "make christianity illegal response squad"
 

No, seriously, I don't care about that. I think you should have the right to believe whatever you want. Really. I just want you to keep it to yourself, within your own homes and within your churches, and keep it the hell out of our government, out of our public shools, and out of my face! Quit dumping that garbage on my doorstep! You're just polluting, and my recycle bin is already full.

If you can keep your silly superstitions to yourself then we'll all get along just fine.

is that really so hard?

"The Bible looks like it started out as a game of Mad Libs" - Bill Maher


I AM GOD AS YOU
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Erasing thousands of years

Erasing thousands of years of religious error is caring godly work , too bad we can't be just celebrating ......


Tilberian
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Christopher Nelson

Christopher Nelson wrote:

Tilberian,  Something can be religiously formed and be wrong. Pagan religions are full of immoral religious activity.  Moses gets his authority from God, the other guy does not, very simple.

Moses didn't get his authority from God any more than I got my tea from the Restaurant At The End of the Universe. Pagan religions have every bit as much claim to authority and morality as Christians do: none.

 

Christopher Nelson wrote:

No, your sentence dealt with sarcasm, not  reality. sorry

Thank you for demonstrating the time honored theist tactic of compartmentalization. You can't refute my argument, so you complain about how I made it. I win.

Christopher Nelson wrote:

And as far as the flood, these acient accounts are not of some flood here and there. But of a global flood.

Are you really going to cling to this idea that ancient writers couldn't have written about anything that isn't true? Is it your opinion that ancient writers didn't have imaginations?

Christopher Nelson wrote:

Morals are a commonly accepted standard? So if a group gets together and decides throwing children into a volcano is ok then its moral? Thats not morality, thats humanistic man made garbage. True morality has to come from an ultimate source to be cohesive and real. Not just some random thing people agree upon which could be immoral in reality. If you don't have God telling you what is or what is not, then you are making it up as you go along. The NFL example are rules, not morals, they have nothing to do with being a decent person.

I got news for you, champ: there have been societies in the past that have decided that throwing children into volcanoes was a perfectly moral thing to do. And they used the exact same justification that you use: God told them to. So either God is telling people different things at different times, or all morals are really coming from people. Of course, you will want to argue that these other societies were lying about being told what to do by God, but I see no reason why you are any more trustworthy than they were.

Christopher Nelson wrote:

As far as me proving God, common sense does that. But further more, you cannot disprove God.

Common sense dictates strictly against God. And you cannot disprove the existence of Boola the Hungry Volcano God.

Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown


jcgadfly
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How about the "we just

How about the "we just kicked the crap out of your theistic arguments" response squad?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Brian37
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To put a spin on the STYX

To put a spin on the STYX song:

 

I'm a jet fuel genious

I can indoctrinate the world

Without even tryen

I got dozen's of bibles

And the preachen never ends

That is as long as I'm lying

 

Is it any wonder

I'm just an imbecile

Is it any wonder

I have no brain

 

I've got too much

Faith on my mind

And it's ticken away

With my sanity

 

I've go too much

Faith on my mind

I'ts easy to believe

In absurd fantacy

 

I've got too much

Faith on my mind

And it's eating away

Eating away at my brain

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Thomathy
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Wait!  I have one!  

Wait!  I have one!

 

Christopher Nelson isn't worth a response squad.

Seriously, why is anyone actually responding to this moron?  Here we have a person typically incapable of writing anything accurate at all.  This is a person who believes that the bible denotes a history of the universe from creation until about two thousand years ago.  This is a person who believes that the accounts of the bible are wholly true. 

Christopher even wrote, 'And as far as the flood, these acient accounts are not of some flood here and there. But of a global flood.'

I think this marks him off my list of people worth responding to.  It's getting wholly annoying to argue with people who wilfully believe that the creation of the universe coincided with the domestication of the dog (thanks Todangst) and that their absolutely ignorant and self centred view of the world must necessarily be correct. 

I'm really hoping that soon the people who believe the bible was originally penned in English start showing up.  Those are people I could laugh at and have fun arguing with.  It is no fun arguing with people like Christopher who just play at being ignorant morons.  How does one on one hand enjoy the amenities of modern life and on the other hand believe in the absolute authority of the bible?  I'm beginning to think that this type of person must run rampant in the United States.  Does it take a lot of effort for a person to ignore the world around them or is this ignorance effortless or, as it's been called, bliss?

Edit: Umm... /rant

BigUniverse wrote,

"Well the things that happen less often are more likely to be the result of the supper natural. A thing like loosing my keys in the morning is not likely supper natural, but finding a thousand dollars or meeting a celebrity might be."


Tilberian
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I hear you Tomathy. I only

I hear you Tomathy. I only lock up with these clowns when I am really, really bored.


FulltimeDefendent
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I know of no atheist morals

I know of no atheist morals that atheist founded on their own.  

 

David Hume, Immanuel Kant, and Charles Darwin wrote extensively about morality. Hume and Kant were atheists. Darwin was agnostic.

The Historical Buddha too, definitely not a Christian and probably never read the Bible, was quite a moral force of personality during his time.

 

“It is true that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. It is equally true that in the land of the blind, the two-eyed man is an enemy of the state, the people, and domestic tranquility… and necessarily so. Someone has to rearrange the furniture.”