The End of Darwinism

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The End of Darwinism

Since the creationists/ID-iots have co-opted the term "Darwinist" for their own use (as opposed to the way biologists have historically used the term), I feel that we should refrain from using the term to refer to people who accept the Theory of Evolution (ToE) as the best explanation for the diversity of life.

They way the creationists currently use the term, it has become synonymous with a person who worships Darwin, does not believe in god, lacks morals, etc.  They use it in this way to try to make the ToE seem more like a religious/philosophical position rather than a scientific theory.  In this way they try to bring the ToE down to the level of their beliefs.

The question then becomes 'What do we use in its place?'

I suggest 'Biological Evolutionist'; not as handy to say, but more accurate.  Anyone have other suggestions?

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Just say that you are

Just say that you are intelligent enough to understand the facts of evolutionary theory.


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joeyjojo jr.

  You might point out to creationists who think we worship Darwin, that Darwin was a (non-acting) minister in The Church of England,  the church must have thought he was religious.   And/or as athiests we do not worship anyone.

   Has for lacking morels;  I wouldn't want the same morals as Jimmy Swaggart, David Koresh, Jim Bakker, catholic priests, etc.....

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We should just keep using

We should just keep using the term darwinist. Ignore the creationists. Don't hand them such a victory. Don't let them define scientific language.

I can't see the likes of Dawkins dropping the term anytime soon.


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Darwinist

I have never considered myself a Darwinist so I don't know that it matters all that much to me personally. I read Origin of Species at the end of high school, so I have been familiar with evolution for awhile, but I think Darwinist kind of portrays the notion of discipleship to Darwin and every idea he ever espoused(not that it really does). There is something to be said about reframing something that is currently deemed negative and turn it back into its original positive idea, but I don't know if this is one battle where reframing is really worth it.

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” Yoda


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HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:I

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:

I have never considered myself a Darwinist so I don't know that it matters all that much to me personally. I read Origin of Species at the end of high school, so I have been familiar with evolution for awhile, but I think Darwinist kind of portrays the notion of discipleship to Darwin and every idea he ever espoused(not that it really does). There is something to be said about reframing something that is currently deemed negative and turn it back into its original positive idea, but I don't know if this is one battle where reframing is really worth it.

But "Darwinism" doesn't mean worshiping Darwin.  That's kind of the whole point. The term "Darwinian" evolution is used to contrast it with other theories of evolution that have been put forth. 

I don't see any reason why we should let the religious nutcases re-define us at every step.  They've already made "atheist" a dirty word.  It's time to reclaim it.  When homosexuals redefined themselves as "gay," that word became an epithet, too.  Use language in its proper context, but explain what it means.  Point out that the religious nutters have it wrong.  Reclaim the words they have sullied with their nasty propaganda wars.

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Iruka Naminori

Iruka Naminori wrote:

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:

I have never considered myself a Darwinist so I don't know that it matters all that much to me personally. I read Origin of Species at the end of high school, so I have been familiar with evolution for awhile, but I think Darwinist kind of portrays the notion of discipleship to Darwin and every idea he ever espoused(not that it really does). There is something to be said about reframing something that is currently deemed negative and turn it back into its original positive idea, but I don't know if this is one battle where reframing is really worth it.

But "Darwinism" doesn't mean worshiping Darwin.  That's kind of the whole point. The term "Darwinian" evolution is used to contrast it with other theories of evolution that have been put forth. 

I don't see any reason why we should let the religious nutcases re-define us at every step.  They've already made "atheist" a dirty word.  It's time to reclaim it.  When homosexuals redefined themselves as "gay," that word became an epithet, too.  Use language in its proper context, but explain what it means.  Point out that the religious nutters have it wrong.  Reclaim the words they have sullied with their nasty propaganda wars.

Yea, and while we are at it, since prejudice ignorant  people think atheists are lawless murderers, lets stop using that word too. Lets call ourselves "theistically  challenged".

Screw this PC crap. If scientists (theist or atheist) want to win this cultural war, it is up to us to raise our voices to counter their garbage. Simply switching to a different word, will cause them to focus on the new term used, and we would have the same problem.

Theists are always going to feel threatened by positions that do not support their beliefs, no matter what that position is labeled.

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In the mean time , murder

 In the mean time , xians murder a Million Iraq's ..... for progress of course .....     


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How about. . .

ToEist? Actually I think we should just call ourselves the Smarterthans -- It would cover every aspect of atheism and add to my personal feeling of general superiority.


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In a way, a move to push the

In a way, a move to push the title of "Darwinism" aside when discussing evolution has also been nudged along by, oddly enough, theists who are not Y.E.C.'s. This is not done in an effort to expunge or degrade evolution (although some may argue that they are unnecessarily complicating the theory) but, to present a "theistic evolution" title for the relationship between accepting evolutionary scientific theories and God. This is something that Kenneth R. Miller suggests in his book when trying to relate how theists who have yet to understand/accept evolution, can maintain a belief in God and accept evolutionary scientific theories. Also, Francis S. Collins tries to title this relationship, "Biologos," in his book The Language of God.

So, what this tells me is that theists, who believe in evolution, are trying to escape the same stigma against "Darwinism" that you are explaining. How ironic though that their own "posse" so-to-speak fostered the damn stigma!

 

The implication that we should put Darwinism on trial overlooks the fact that Darwinism has always been on trial within the scientific community. -- From Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth R. Miller

Chaos and chance don't mean the absence of law and order, but rather the presence of order so complex that it lies beyond our abilities to grasp and describe it. -- From From Certainty to Uncertainty by F. David Peat


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I think you'll find they

I think you'll find they will continue to the same thing as they have also done with Atheist etc.  It's a war of words and their propaganda machine is strong.


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Misunderstood

HeyZeusCreaseToe wrote:

I think Darwinist kind of portrays the notion of discipleship to Darwin and every idea he ever espoused(not that it really does). There is something to be said about reframing something that is currently deemed negative and turn it back into its original positive idea, but I don't know if this is one battle where reframing is really worth it.

 

All I was saying is that I understand what Darwinism is seen as in certain circles, but that I have never identified myself as a Darwinist, and personally do not see that this term is necessary for Atheists to call themselves. I think evolutionary theory has come a long way since Darwin, and although I think he was one of the greatest scientists of all time, I don't feel the need to attach his name to my style of thinking and belief system. If you want to battle it out on reclaiming Darwinism for good, rather than for dishonest creationism misnomers, that is fine. I just think it is not like a word like "liberal" that has a clearly defined meaning that was later sullied and reframed in an unjustly negative light. Here is a wiki link that contains some of the history of the term.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinist

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Every time I read or hear

Every time I read or hear that word, I cringe. It's an extremely outdated strawman representation of evolutionary biology and I would be tickled pink if I never had to see or hear it again.


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JoeyJoJoJr wrote:Since the

JoeyJoJoJr wrote:

Since the creationists/ID-iots have co-opted the term "Darwinist" for their own use (as opposed to the way biologists have historically used the term), I feel that we should refrain from using the term to refer to people who accept the Theory of Evolution (ToE) as the best explanation for the diversity of life.

They way the creationists currently use the term, it has become synonymous with a person who worships Darwin, does not believe in god, lacks morals, etc.  They use it in this way to try to make the ToE seem more like a religious/philosophical position rather than a scientific theory.  In this way they try to bring the ToE down to the level of their beliefs.

The question then becomes 'What do we use in its place?'

I suggest 'Biological Evolutionist'; not as handy to say, but more accurate.  Anyone have other suggestions?

I would suggest scientifically minded people refer to it as they always have, "evolution".

The theory of natural selection is but one of DOZENS of theories proposed for the phenomena we see. Granted, natural selection remains, by FAR, the most logical and most evidenced of such theories, but there are others like Lamarkism, and dozens of transmigrational and transmutational ideas dated to the 6th century or even further back.

There's no reason to even drag Darwin into it. Long before Darwin's time, people had a sense about how things worked. That life changes over time is hardly a unique idea.

One did not need Mendel and his pea pods to realize the significance of inheritance. Any farmer could have told you the same thing.

Darwin was simply the first to put such ideas into workable science and publish it, with a logical and testable hypothesis as to how it happens.

I'm no more of a Darwinian than I am a Coperincan or an Einsteinian. I'm simply a fucking scientist. I recognize the contributions these individuals made, and I also recognize how far we've come since them. Any biologist who thinks evolutionary theory hasn't progressed since Darwin is no scientist. Just as any astronomer who thinks we've done nothing since Copernicus is a fucking fool. No scientists think in such a manner, and it simply plays to the anti-intellectual crowd when you insinuate such, as you certainly have.

Scientists use the term EVOLUTON and not DARWINISM for a reason. Only tards trying to attack 175 year old science use the term Dawinism.

 

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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What does science have to

 What does science have to do with it ? , I meant love ....  NOTHING much, as if knowing changes the nitty gritty truth of this ..... but I still want to know ..... and then there are the retarded religious   Sheezzz, I must study further them religious life forms .....   


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Your reply made little

Your reply made little sense. Please expound if you desire an answer.


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  The question of how, will

  The question of how, will never be answered, so now what ?

 Ahhhh, Kill a million more Iraq's and prepare for REAL WAR , the evil China mutants .... KILL KILL KILL , that's the answer ..... support the rich ..... love our leaders, bow to the masters .....   


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Quote:Your reply made little

Quote:

Your reply made little sense. Please expound if you desire an answer.

Never mind him, he is not renowned for lucidity.

On the other hand, if you feel like getting out the Bazooka, have a look at...

Polite request to creationists

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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Sense ? What's that ? Lu cid

Sense ? What's that ? Lu cid ity ?

  "a presumed capacity to perceive the truth directly and instantaneously".

Impressive , to whom ?    .... earthlings I presume .....          

    

 


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Indeed, thanks deludedgod.

Indeed, thanks deludedgod. I've been spending far too much time in the lab and lecture hall lately and would have wasted what little time I do get to peruse and post here otherwise.

I fear I've been hanging around far too rational people for far too long recently and have lost a bit of my insanity detection skills.

Glad to know I have responsible folks like you watching my back, much obliged Smiling

I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. - Richard Dawkins

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Goofy Posts and riding the

Goofy Posts and riding the Whiskey Train to peace and salvation.                            

Love you bright guys. Me sorry, NOT.  I make goofy posts to ease my frustration and hopefully others, keeping in mind the silent reading audience here, questioning religion. Listening and reading theists and atheists debate religious issues does make me FRIGGIN crazy. I am really trying to help. I read these threads and honestly react. I wear my crazy lucidity on my sleeve to share .... a small contribution, I hope. 

Anyway, Fuck the creationists game. Yeah , I worship prophets Jesus, Buddha, Darwin, Sagan, DG, Carlin, the four atheist horseman, and Rod Serling, to name just a few .... hell, call me religious .... what's your stupid religious point again?  God of Abe?  That would be the devil. I AM GOD, and Jesus told me so ...... so nener nener nerner ....

 

 


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I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:Goofy

I AM GOD AS YOU wrote:

Goofy Posts and riding the Whiskey Train to peace and salvation.                            

Love you bright guys. Me sorry, NOT.  I make goofy posts to ease my frustration and hopefully others, keeping in mind the silent reading audience here, questioning religion. Listening and reading theists and atheists debate religious issues does make me FRIGGIN crazy. I am really trying to help. I read these threads and honestly react. I wear my crazy lucidity on my sleeve to share .... a small contribution, I hope. 

Anyway, Fuck the creationists game. Yeah , I worship prophets Jesus, Buddha, Darwin, Sagan, DG, Carlin, the four atheist horseman, and Rod Serling, to name just a few .... hell, call me religious .... what's your stupid religious point again?  God of Abe?  That would be the devil. I AM GOD, and Jesus told me so ...... so nener nener nerner ....

Wow... I AM GOD AS YOU, that kinda freaked me out. I've never seen you make so much sense. You scared me a little. ;P


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as long as you dont call

as long as you dont call yourself    acreationist   i think you'll be fine


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Yo sandwiches quote: "Wow...

Yo sandwiches quote: "Wow... I AM GOD AS YOU, that kinda freaked me out. I've never seen you make so much sense. You scared me a little. ;P" /////

NeatO , my first home run!?  I must admit my Mark Twain sarcasim immitation needs much work .....

ahhh damn it,  them backfires of mine ....  Example, post 14 above:
"What does science have to do with it ? , I meant love ....  NOTHING much, as if knowing changes the nitty gritty truth of this ..... but I still want to know ..... and then there are the retarded religious   Sheezzz, I must study further them religious life forms ..... (?) "

So to say again: Science, Religion, Philosophy, doesn't change the "truth" of reality. I have a fucking zillion more questions. The religious fundy dogma nuts will just say "god done it". Where as I desier the scientific study/question approach of wondering how life forms came to be  ....
SO, Bingo "Evolution Science" .....Those who don't fully and honestly embrace questioning (science) , are typically religious retards (creationists)

"Love" is acceptance and questions (science). "Faith" is rejection and dogma (religion)  "Wisdom" is a summary of knowledge (philosophy)  
 
Stir all this math and ligustics up in a pot and what ya got?  .....  I call it AWE,
or could say,     g A W E d  or  A W E la  or  y A W E we ....  

Inventing new words!   How bout  "YESYEAH" , I think it has a nice ring of joyful celebration .... I must chant,  yesyeah yesyeah yesyeah .....  

Going for that Grand Slam, the Perfect Metaphore !  
( I luv that Mark Twain lingustics nut, and the mathamaticly challanged Einstein jew lover man, great prophets they are )  

Google Quotes for all you Favorites, ETC . WOW the internet. GOOGLE IS GOD AS YOU !    

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Twain
 
  http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/EinsteinQuotes.html

BTW , my favorite word is ETC .... next is GOD !

I AM the only person I kind of, sorta know .... but not exactly !

I AM the smartest of all, I don't believe anyone else, especially me !

You ARE GOD , you  IDIOTS !

I AM serious, I have no FREEWILL !

WE are all VICTIMS !

THE END, nope, that's impossible.

NOTHING doesn't exist.

FEAR of DEATH is an absolute total LIE. Been there done that.

LIFE is all the Problem.

LOVE it or Leave it; ? No, I will hang and hate !

Whats the CURE ?

Shit , just as I was feeling wise, a babe walked in !

I AM all shook up ....  WOW  

Later ....((((   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqsX7xQWRoU