I need some help/info
Offline hey guys and girls
i was just hoping if i coudl get some help with preparing for a debate/persuasive*spelling not so good* speech on homosexuals
whats happened is my friend bible group was making some stupid claims about gays and one of myfriend has invited me to talk to the group.
my aim is to try and convince them that homosexuality isnt a choice i ahve some good arguments but i need help with what kinda arguments are they are going to put forward and what i can use to debunk thier arguments
also i cant remember who but someone had a webiste or a report that spoke about homosexuality and chemical unbalances .
this is my first person to person deabte with a gruop so i am ratehr nervous
lol on a siad not i jsut realsied a majority of my posts only have to do with homosexuality
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http://www.hedweb.com/animimag/gaysheep.html
There's a start for you.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
thanks heaps , that will be really helpful casue one of teh poeple were talkign abotu how their sint any study done that shows it as a choce so tahst going to help
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen
No problem. It's something of a hammer in the debate.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
sure is i ahve to print like 5 copies out i am going full out for this ,
lol one of teh girls thier i dont expect to convince very well because she told me once that she would first calim taht i didnt exist before she belived that god didnt but she is kidna a nut :P
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen
Quite honestly, I think a first-hand story is a good argument. Some people have "always known" they are gay where some have struggled trying to figure it out.
Have someone tell them that sexual identity has nothing to do with faith or religion, that it has to do with sexual attraction, which is a biological function.
I have a lot of gay friends and I don't know of a single one of them who would have chosen it. Several of them even tried to be straight and it just didn't work.
When one friend came out to her parents during her high school years, her parents sent her to a camp (or something like that) to get "straightened out". It didn't work. She spent years in therapy getting past what was done to her. (Luckily, the story eventually had a happy ending and she has a good relationship with both her parents now.)
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Where's Lynette1977 when we really need her?
She's excellent at this sort of thing.
I think that it can be a choice. In some cases obviously not. But, Is uppose it varies. But honestly, I don't think that it matters whether it's a choice or not. To be a homosexual is to be no different than anyone else. I often look at people in disgust who always rant about homosexuals. Other than the fact that they have sex differently than us, they are the exact same as us. Who are we to deny homosexuals their rights simply because of their sexual orientation? But eh.. man-kind is intolerant eh?
"Why would God send his only son to die an agonizing death to redeem an insignificant bit of carbon?"-Victor J. Stenger.
thats a really good idea thanks susan. hopefully that will get through to them.
also i tried having a look but one of them is claiming that the bible mentions something about being gay is a choice and stuff , all i could find was teh whole stone them to death thing , it would be great to show them that its not mentioned thei casue a majority of the kids havent even read the bible
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen
i was thining the same thing i have already gone though some of the the preivous threads that she was mentioined stuff about this topic but it would be great to hear some more from her
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen
Can I suggest that at some point you raise the question of why it matters if homosexuality is a choice or not? It is an observable truth that not everyone follows the Bible, and that even Christians do not follow everything in the Bible. Therefore, is it not within the rights of gay people to choose not to obey those two verses that mention "abomination"? And is it not also their right to be free from persecution from Christians for their freely made choice? If I were you, I would ask them to point out the Bible passage that gives them the right to comment on someone else's behaviour. Whatever happened to "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
You might want to be careful and not let the "chat" veer off into whether the bible condems homosexuals. That's an entirely different (and possibly ugly) conversation. You've seen all the silly stuff posted in Trollville about that. Can you imagine taking that in person?
Try to keep the conversation on whether or not being gay is a choice.
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You know, I just had another thought as I hit the submit button on my previous post. (Yikes! She had a thought!!!)
Obviously I don't know the climate of the group you will speak with, but if there are homophobes in the group, it might be wise to be sure you're not the only gay person in the room.
Maybe you could take along two or three gay friends to tell their stories of how it wasn't a choice for them.
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But Susan, why do we have to go through this discussion of whether homosexuality is a choice or not? Why are we having the conversation?
Answer: because Christians would like to persecute gays, or at least treat them as mentally ill, and they feel that if they can get people to agree that homosexuality is a choice, they will have some traction to censure them.
But there should be no grounds on which Christians should be able to censure gays unless they can show that gays are somehow violating their rights! No one asks if divorce is inevitable or a choice, yet we now acknowledge that married couples have the right to get a divorce if they want. And most marriages happen in churches!
By engaging Christians in a discussion about whether homosexuality is a choice or not, we have already yeilded too much ground. We are admitting that the point is worth arguing, as if, if they can prove that it is a choice, this will make some difference to how we should treat gays. I think people with the right attitude about gays should simply shrug whenever they hear that question and say "what right do you have, Mr Christian, to dictate to gays what choices they can make?"
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
I do not disagree with you, Tiberian.
However, in his original post, Malice said he is going to speak to a bible group about whether homosexuality is a choice and was asking for help with it.
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I was thinking the same damn thing. Maybe the massive influx scared her a bit.
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Ugh. It's awful that gay people even have to think about such things. Maybe it would be a good idea that one of the people with you is tall, muscular and intimidating.
I won't say all homophobia is generated by religion, but once my religion was gone, my homophobia was gone, too, for the most part. How sad that kids are raised to hate. I was actively taught to hate homosexuals at the fundamentalist school I attended. While we were in Sacramento, our class even confronted a Democratic legislator over a bill guaranteeing rights to gay people. How fucked up is that?
Is it weird that I'm still angry with my social studies teacher for teaching us so much nonsense and hateful rubbish?
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Thank you everyone that has hjelped with information unfourtantly the group has cancled the my speech thing on the basis that i am presnting a biesed argument due to the fact that i am gay
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen
They only want a straight person, with no personal experience in the subject, to present arguments? Well duh! What hypocrits!
But, you know, I think you're probably better off. This is quite obviously NOT an open-minded group.
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probly i felt so shit when i first got told that they didnt want me to debate casue i was gay .
but i am kinda glad its not happening casue teh probly would of 1. mad me feel like dirt and 2. i porbly would of pucnched someone for spouting off stupid stuff
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen
Probably another reason they didn't want you to explain it to them was because, deep down, they know you're right.
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pronly i have already had arguemtns onlien with memebrs of teh group ove rthe existanceof god and stuff most of them are jsut parrots repeating anyhting their leader or minster says to them
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen
I bet they're scared of being shown as dumb, even to themselves.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
thats a good chance aswell.
i found one of them on myspace adn told them that if thier group wishes to discuss anythign else they should bring it this website.
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen
LOL! Good for them! Never let your opinion of gays be tainted by actually talking to one. Too much information can only spoil your chances of reaching the conclusion you want.
What a perfect example of how the faithful take care to shield themselves from any knowledge that might encourage them to question their beliefs. I honestly don't know how they can defend such behaviour in this day and age.
Lazy is a word we use when someone isn't doing what we want them to do.
- Dr. Joy Brown
everytime they have a rational thoguht tehy sniff some paint??
www.myspace.com/sugerfilledteen