Before I begin replying, I want you to know that none of my posts are an attack on you; merely an attack on what you post. So please do not be disturbed.

Metal is not political in the sense that it is not CNN-music, unlike much of punk. Realize that having a political opinion does not automatically make the opinion relevant, and what I've found to be true of most punk rock is that a few abrasive screams of ANARCHY RULZ, or CORPORATIONS SUCK does not convey anything meaningful. I despise CNN-metal bands, such as Cattle Decapitation, whose death metal consists of praises for vegetarianism, or Six Feet Under, who recently released "Amerika the Brutal," a bleeding-heart liberal inability comprehend and put into context the horrors of war and their reality. This pandering to the spotlight of the week, where musicians take up a trivial "cause" (usually for publicity reasons) detracts from the artistic meaning of the music. (Let's not discuss Bono here please). Anyway, the death metal aesthetic is utterly contrary to the Judeochristian perspective and worldview. It is the essence of blasphemy against the feeble Judeochristian mindset.

This is naturally dismissed as juvenile by most, but it represents the destruction of Christian morality, yet from an authoritative and capable perspective (as opposed to a victim's).

The majority of my metal collection consists not of "rocking" tracks (to which one would mindlessly headbang between beer bongs), but of artistic expressions of some of the most fringe of dark human emotions and imagery. I'd say this makes metal more meaningful as an art form than punk rock. One of the primary motivators for death and black metal is the distaste for Abrahamic religion, and egalitarianism. I consider it to be good and strong.

I know you only through that which you post. I make assumptions, yes, but I am certainly willing to have them dispelled. The very fact that you equate metal with rock displays a significant lack of knowledge on your part. Though metal is in some ways derived from rock, recent accomplishments have veered greatly from that old genre.

I was not kidding, but of course it is a matter of opinion.

Are you trying to impress me with your open-mindedness?

What, precisely, have I assumed, except your obvious ignorance of metal (a notion I obtained after analyzing the evidence - your posts)? The word ignorance, as used in this context, is not pejorative, merely descriptive.

To judge one type of music over another is simply a matter of opinion. I'm a huge metal head....more of the progressive speed power metal type (which before Dragonforce was not very well liked here in the states). But, I also listen to Punk Rock, Real Hip Hop, 90's Seatle Sound, Cranberries, Ben Folds, and yes...even Dave Matthews. Music is a release of emotions... and no one style is better or worse than any other, much like no skin color is better or worse than any other.

I like both metal and punk - though mostly the punk of the 1970s and Metal of the 1980s. Never touched an illegal drug in my life.

It is not a necessary compulsion; it is a utilization of one's free will. The ability to discriminate is a useful one. Furthermore, this thread is in dire need of Maddox:

There's a quote I like that goes "An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

Some music is art, much is not. Musical art is a sort of abstract method of communicating ideas (since it is primarily sensual), and I see no reason to accept music that either fails entirely to communicate with the listener (start from Mr. Cent and end anywhere between Shania Twain, Britney Spears, Greenday, or Dave Matthews) or communicates putrid ideas. This is why Christian music disgusts me, as does rap and alternative rock.

Whiny and unassertive, this reminds me of the token depressed emo kid within any self-respecting middle school clique. I dislike the lyrics also, which promote complacency and limiting oneself to what one has, not to mention the morally masochistic guilt-tripping over the fact that someone is a disfigured wreck who is satisfied with what little she has and you dare complain about things.

A lot of music is obviously written from a particular political, spiritual or whatever angle. Art is used as a means to express many things.

It's also, shockingly enough, sometimes used to express nothing but to exist unto itself as a piece of art.

I like a lot of punk, I like some metal, mostly I prefer stuff that people label as "Gothic". That has nothing to do with Marilyn Manson by they way nor do I care for "Gothic Metal", whatever that's supposed to be other than metal bands wearing eyeliner.

Anyway, I'm not convinced that every piece of music has to be pushing this or that or that any genre can be said to be more this or that than another. Kicking it old school: Suicidal Tendencies wrote a lot of socially consious stuff and Slayer wrote a lot of blood and guts, horror movie stuff. Both of them were in the metal bin.

As for Morbid Angel, I always liked their lyrics for the Lovecraftian touches and some of the word choice but I never saw them as endorsing anything so much as playinig the part of the villian and probably having a good laugh about it. "Nazarene, now I crown you King of Pain. Rawr. Suffer." I mean, come on. How the hell are you going to take that seriously beyond it being very well-constructed shock and horror?

Looking for all this meaning in everything just seems like looking for Mary in the grilled cheese sometimes. It's music you like or don't like. Personally, I fucking hate Emo. Being that constitues only my opinion, I really can't say "Emo sucks" because how the fuck do I know? Someone likes it. Let them like it.

With all the stupid opinions people hold that really do cause damage in this world, shave your mo, grow you skanky ass hair, whine about your girlfriend leaving you, how much the government sucks or how you intend to dissect Jesus but realize that, as members of subcultures with really slight differences, you have far more in common than you have in contrast.

The religious right hates the punx as much as they hate the metalheads. I'm a goth, believe me, the fucking *loathe* us. How about we quit quibbling over really irresolvable and irrelevant things and move on to something important?

if anybody's seen the metal-oriented documentary that's been played into the ground on VH1 recently, i think Lemmy Kilmister summed this discussion up best. he said something to the effect that " politicians don't listen to rock music, and don't give a fuck what rock musicians are saying because it's ineffectual anyways."
and it's the truth. look at the veritable armies of fans that punk and metal have accrued, and the ratio to what action has been taken by said armies. totally ineffectual...almost pacifying....

Meh, music either rocks or it don't. It either grabs you and makes the feet want to tap or not. The message, whatever it is, be damned if it doesn't do that.

Not to say that I don't like witty lyrics that have something to say or make me laugh. A big reason I love bands like Bad Religion and NOFX are the stoic and blunt sincerity on one hand, and the complete irreverence on the other.

I can find something I like in almost any genre. I tend to prefere ska, punk and metal as that is what I was weened on. Still, I LOVE Jonny Cash and Jimmy Buffet, as well as lots of other stuff I'm too embarrassed to share - simply depends on the mood.

And as for the sentiment that music has to change the world or serve as a platform for doing so, fuck that. If anything, music should bring us together and give us common ground. I remember shows as a kid where Nazi thugs and Rastafarians got along, at least for a few hours.

In the imortal words of Operation Ivy: "Music is an indirect force for change, because it provides an anchor against human tradgedy. In this sense, it works towards a reconciled world. It can also be the direct experience of change; at certain points during some shows the reconciled world is already here at least in that second in that place. Operation Ivy was very lucky to have experienced this. Those seconds reveal that the momentum that drives a subculture is more important than any particular band. The momentum is made of all the people who stay interested and keep their sense of urgency and hope."

Music is two things: art and a consumable. Effective art stimulates thought of some sort within the listener's mind. Consumables (just about anything on MTV for the last 6 years) are there to be consumed by plebeians.

Regardless, it is unlikely to change society's perspectives (especially political ones). I disagree with 80% of metal fans on a large amount of issues, but I agree that metal is an effective artform.

Where is that from, one of their songs?

I know music doesn't have a message so here are lyrics to a song I wanted to share from one of my favorite bands, Born-Against. Btw, I was a confused xtain when I got this album and it helped me be a stronger person and make final decision to become atheist.

EULOGY
There was this friend of mine, needed something we couldn't give
convenient answers and a cheap way out killed himself without
actually dying, took a blunt lie and gouged out his mind
And I can't accept that he's found the answers to those questions
I'll be trying to solve until I die
And I can't accept that he's somehow "better off" because
the answers aren't that simple
we always assumed he wasn't either and I want his beautiful
religion to burn because Steve's dead...
I wasn't offered the chance to say goodbye.

no no, don't feel silly, no joke....my thinking was that 'born agains' are typically of a protestant persuasion, but i admit i'm not fully educated on all the differences between the two.
i think if they were anti-religion and anti-government, i would have been all about them....but i remember rejecting them for something....maybe it's the straight-edge thing.....i dunno...i thought i had more to go on than that.....
ha ha ha ha ha