Christians, Please Read Here Before Posting...

sapphen
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Christians, Please Read Here Before Posting...

this may be a work in progress, please feel free to add to it.

there are a lot of misconceptions about atheist. a lot of intelligent theist have already stated ideas that they have heard before. if you do bring an idea here keep in mind the following;

1. white space is important

2. simplify without compromising your thoughts

3. don't get angry

4. faith requires the lack of proof

5. personal proof is not going to convince anyone, but it welcomed to be shared.

6. don't underestimate your opposition and don't over estimate yourself. if you are unsure, ask questions.

7. atheist do not hate God, they don't believe in Him (and sometimes they are big meanies, but sometimes we can be too). lol Eye-wink

8. love, patience and kindness goes a long way

9. don't believe in God because society told you to, search within yourself for your belief. religion can be flawed... God created man, man created religion. if you are unsure of your faith you can not effectively argue it's case.

May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.


nonbobblehead
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You're joking right?

Faith requires the lack of proof?

Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.

We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

No Christian underestimates an Atheist, as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.

Atheists may not hate God? That goes against the evidence and actions of the Atheist, in the way they treat those that believe in God. The anger and vitriol is ubiquitous in the Atheist stances and responses toward anyone that dissents of their absolutist way of life.

Love, patience and kindness? Only patience is seen in the natural animlaistic world. The one in which Atheism is founded on. Love and kindness do not exist in the animal kingdom. And, after all is said and done, Atheism dwells within the animal kingdom. Just in the higher, or highest, animal (of course).

If one were to look at, for, or to "society," for their worth, then Atheism may indeed make sense. When one looks at a higher way to contemplate order and value of the human being, one becomes a Christian, Theist, or at least a Deist.

Atheists do not have to be feared or hated by anyone, IF, they remain civil and respectful of dissent of their totalitarian ways of dealing with others.

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


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nonbobblehead wrote: Faith

nonbobblehead wrote:

Faith requires the lack of proof?

Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.

We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

No Christian underestimates an Atheist, as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.

Atheists may not hate God? That goes against the evidence and actions of the Atheist, in the way they treat those that believe in God. The anger and vitriol is ubiquitous in the Atheist stances and responses toward anyone that dissents of their absolutist way of life.

Love, patience and kindness? Only patience is seen in the natural animlaistic world. The one in which Atheism is founded on. Love and kindness do not exist in the animal kingdom. And, after all is said and done, Atheism dwells within the animal kingdom. Just in the higher, or highest, animal (of course).

If one were to look at, for, or to "society," for their worth, then Atheism may indeed make sense. When one looks at a higher way to contemplate order and value of the human being, one becomes a Christian, Theist, or at least a Deist.

Atheists do not have to be feared or hated by anyone, IF, they remain civil and respectful of dissent of their totalitarian ways of dealing with others.

If you have proof on which to rest your faith, you'd be able to articulate that proof, wouldn't you?

And yet, you've never been able to do that... 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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nonbobblehead wrote: We

nonbobblehead wrote:

We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

 Each time you test gravity, it produces the same results.  Yet to see a test for god with this success rate.

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
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sapphen
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very good post

very good post nonbobblehead, by no means did i want to offend your beliefs!

if you where to talk to a first time Christian that is about to step into this ongoing debate, what suggestions would you give them before they posted?

May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.


Nero
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sapphen wrote: very good

sapphen wrote:
very good post nonbobblehead, by no means did i want to offend your beliefs! if you where to talk to a first time Christian that is about to step into this ongoing debate, what suggestions would you give them before they posted?

 

 

NO!!!!!! Don't listen to him!  He's hydrocephalic.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


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nonbobblehead wrote: Faith

nonbobblehead wrote:

Faith requires the lack of proof?

Yes. It is in the definition of faith.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

There is a difference between confidence in your abilities or judging probabilities and excepting something without proof.

nonbobblehead wrote:
"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.

Only faith in the judging of probabilites. And it goes a bit deeper than that. I can't see any evidence of God. That is why I don't believe.

nonbobblehead wrote:
We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction.

We can see the evidence of gravity. To put it another way. I cannot see you, does that mean that you do not exist? No. I see the evidence in you existance in your posts. A poor, irrational existance, but an existance, none the less.

nonbobblehead wrote:
All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

And you have more then just personal proof that God exists?

nonbobblehead wrote:
No Christian underestimates an Atheist, as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.

All christians were atheists at one time. We start out that way at birth. It takes indoctrination to 'accept' God.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Atheists may not hate God? That goes against the evidence and actions of the Atheist, in the way they treat those that believe in God. The anger and vitriol is ubiquitous in the Atheist stances and responses toward anyone that dissents of their absolutist way of life.

It is very hard to hate that which you do not believe in. I have discussed other subjects with you and not gotten angry or vitriolic. But something tells me that will change soon. You have done nothing but post logical fallicies and ad hominems then stick your fingers in your ears and shout "La-La-La-La" when we try to respond.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Love, patience and kindness? Only patience is seen in the natural animlaistic world. The one in which Atheism is founded on. Love and kindness do not exist in the animal kingdom. And, after all is said and done, Atheism dwells within the animal kingdom. Just in the higher, or highest, animal (of course).

Dolphins, elephants, and apes have all been shown to grieve after a child dies. Love does exist in the animal kingdom.

nonbobblehead wrote:
If one were to look at, for, or to "society," for their worth, then Atheism may indeed make sense. When one looks at a higher way to contemplate order and value of the human being, one becomes a Christian, Theist, or at least a Deist.

It has been my experience that belief in God, and especially belief in an afterlife, devalues human beings. The eternal soul is more important then the flesh, so it doesn't matter if I torture/kill the flesh if the soul goes to heaven. An atheist would have a hard time justifying this.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Atheists do not have to be feared or hated by anyone, IF, they remain civil and respectful of dissent of their totalitarian ways of dealing with others.

So stay in the house and let the thiests run everything? Sounds like a plan. I mean, they have done such a bang-up job of it. The Dark Ages were a glorious time for all, right?

"When you hit your thumb with a hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a special kind of atheist to jump up and down shout, 'Oh, random fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!'"-Terry Pratchett


nonbobblehead
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jcgadfly

jcgadfly wrote:
nonbobblehead wrote:

Faith requires the lack of proof?

Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.

We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

No Christian underestimates an Atheist, as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.

Atheists may not hate God? That goes against the evidence and actions of the Atheist, in the way they treat those that believe in God. The anger and vitriol is ubiquitous in the Atheist stances and responses toward anyone that dissents of their absolutist way of life.

Love, patience and kindness? Only patience is seen in the natural animlaistic world. The one in which Atheism is founded on. Love and kindness do not exist in the animal kingdom. And, after all is said and done, Atheism dwells within the animal kingdom. Just in the higher, or highest, animal (of course).

If one were to look at, for, or to "society," for their worth, then Atheism may indeed make sense. When one looks at a higher way to contemplate order and value of the human being, one becomes a Christian, Theist, or at least a Deist.

Atheists do not have to be feared or hated by anyone, IF, they remain civil and respectful of dissent of their totalitarian ways of dealing with others.

If you have proof on which to rest your faith, you'd be able to articulate that proof, wouldn't you?

And yet, you've never been able to do that... 

On what calculator do you get something from 0 x 0?

You atheists try to prove your point that all hangs on something from nothing. You spin and twist in truly impressive displays, but you are the ones that hold onto from choas come order.

Not the Deist, not the Theist. I side with with the reality that there is a Creator. heck. I care not a bit that ALL of you "Freethinkers" hate Jesus and Christians, unarmed bullies have never scraed me once in my life.

Atheists are the emotion, hysterical ones that scream the loudest when opposed. I notice the Christians answering protest after protest in written form time and time again.

You Atheists can reject whatever you wish, but that does not make you correct on your views of Deity.

You reject what doesn't fit your beliefs no differently than any other person on earth, and claim that you are somehow enlightened. Sh-t, you're no more unique than people that lived three-thousand years ago.

The New Testament is a a group and grouping of historical documents, and yet "you atheists" gather around you those that dispute that. Oooooo. Is that somehow unique?

I am more impressed with the Christians of today than I am the same old tired opposers and their same old questions. How enlightened is it when skeptic/freethinker/atheist ideolgy follows the same old hedonism/totalitarianism of a thousand generations of human beings?

I look for deeper thinking.

 

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


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Ok, lets talk about personal

Ok, lets talk about personal proof, since we can't really say anything is beyond personal proof then the correct way to be is agnostic, the smartest people on the forum will admit to being atheist in practice but in truth agnostic. it's a shame that theists believe in something that compells them not to take an agnostic approach in what is a massively important question


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nonbobblehead

nonbobblehead wrote:
jcgadfly wrote:
nonbobblehead wrote:

Faith requires the lack of proof?

Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.

We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

No Christian underestimates an Atheist, as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.

Atheists may not hate God? That goes against the evidence and actions of the Atheist, in the way they treat those that believe in God. The anger and vitriol is ubiquitous in the Atheist stances and responses toward anyone that dissents of their absolutist way of life.

Love, patience and kindness? Only patience is seen in the natural animlaistic world. The one in which Atheism is founded on. Love and kindness do not exist in the animal kingdom. And, after all is said and done, Atheism dwells within the animal kingdom. Just in the higher, or highest, animal (of course).

If one were to look at, for, or to "society," for their worth, then Atheism may indeed make sense. When one looks at a higher way to contemplate order and value of the human being, one becomes a Christian, Theist, or at least a Deist.

Atheists do not have to be feared or hated by anyone, IF, they remain civil and respectful of dissent of their totalitarian ways of dealing with others.

If you have proof on which to rest your faith, you'd be able to articulate that proof, wouldn't you?

And yet, you've never been able to do that...

On what calculator do you get something from 0 x 0?

You atheists try to prove your point that all hangs on something from nothing. You spin and twist in truly impressive displays, but you are the ones that hold onto from choas come order.

Not the Deist, not the Theist. I side with with the reality that there is a Creator. heck. I care not a bit that ALL of you "Freethinkers" hate Jesus and Christians, unarmed bullies have never scraed me once in my life.

Atheists are the emotion, hysterical ones that scream the loudest when opposed. I notice the Christians answering protest after protest in written form time and time again.

You Atheists can reject whatever you wish, but that does not make you correct on your views of Deity.

You reject what doesn't fit your beliefs no differently than any other person on earth, and claim that you are somehow enlightened. Sh-t, you're no more unique than people that lived three-thousand years ago.

The New Testament is a a group and grouping of historical documents, and yet "you atheists" gather around you those that dispute that. Oooooo. Is that somehow unique?

I am more impressed with the Christians of today than I am the same old tired opposers and their same old questions. How enlightened is it when skeptic/freethinker/atheist ideolgy follows the same old hedonism/totalitarianism of a thousand generations of human beings?

I look for deeper thinking.

 

Still no articulation of the "proof" on which you rest your faith...

Or any proof on the historicity of the NT...

Is there any other point that you wish to not bring proof for?

For a guy with a positive claim that is supposed to save the souls of the believers, you bring appallingly little to back it up.

I'm not rejecting anything you've said as you've given me nothing to reject.

Which is the more valid claim?

0*0=0 (your claim of athiesm)

0*[undefined concept called "God"]=everything (theistic claim)

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


sapphen
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IzzyPop, fair response all

IzzyPop, fair response all except the following;

"...they have done such a bang-up job of it. The Dark Ages were a glorious time for all, right?"

not that i disagree or anything. there are some bad things that has happened and by no means should anyone sit around letting someone else dictate their thoughts.

we should take this into another post. i already have one started but only got one response. it is called, "help me ponder human psychology..." and it is in Chaoslord and Todangst's forum.

i don't like to link other posts in current ones but i would really like to hear your opinion on that matter if you have the time. you don't really worry about answering the questions and the first post is not organized at all.

feel free to start another if you like and i'll follow you in there but my thoughts on the matter is in the stated post if you want to get an idea of where i'm coming from.

May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.


Maragon
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Oh man, I hate that same

Oh man, I hate that same old theist rhetoric about not being able to 'see' air or gravity or whatever - and equating that to your god belief.

 

Do you really not understand that difference?

 

We can scientifically TEST for air and gravity, we can attribute certain effects and characterists to both of these things. We can see what happens when a LACK of either of these two things exists. You can't do any of those things for God.

 

You're attempting to strawman the posistion -this isn't about things we CAN'T see. This is about having no empirical evidence for the existance of god. 


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IzzyPop

IzzyPop wrote:
nonbobblehead wrote:

Faith requires the lack of proof?

{quote=Izzypop]]Yes. It is in the definition of faith.[/quote}

Faith is the evidence of things unseen. That is a great thought process. Every scientist should think so.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

IzzyPop wrote:
There is a difference between confidence in your abilities or judging probabilities and excepting something without proof.

I only believe in things I can see. I have faith in facts. 0 x 0 = Atheism. i cannot follow that absurdity.

nonbobblehead wrote:
"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.

[qoute=Izzypop]Only faith in the judging of probabilites. And it goes a bit deeper than that. I can't see any evidence of God. That is why I don't believe.

Quote:

And I see pure "evidence" of God. the universe down to the unseen virus that gives me a cold. I truly pity an atheistic mind. I don't fear some atheists, but many I do. They are fanatics of anger. 

nonbobblehead wrote:
We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction.

IzzyPop wrote:
We can see the evidence of gravity. To put it another way. I cannot see you, does that mean that you do not exist? No. I see the evidence in you existance in your posts. A poor, irrational existance, but an existance, none the less.

Insult so ubiquitous in the Atheist towards an honest dissenter of Atheism duly noted. I think, therefore I am no accident or mutated monkey. 

nonbobblehead wrote:
All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

IzzyPop wrote:
And you have more then just personal proof that God exists?

You. Even though you are a typical atheist, you are not an accident of nature. The math behind you is solid evidence for me. The odds that one sperm would unite with one ovum to produce you is quite the matematical probabilty. And yet, your DNA is unique. Otherwise you would be another exact copy of your brother. You can think a non-Atheist is an idiot, but trust me we are not.

nonbobblehead wrote:
No Christian underestimates an Atheist, as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.

IzzyPop wrote:
All christians were atheists at one time. We start out that way at birth. It takes indoctrination to 'accept' God.

And we would all be just impulsive animals without "reason." Reason and the thoughts about deity are implanted in us "somehow." Even the weak child in a pre-school knows it has been wronged by the larger kid that took his/her toy. How? Why? It is not food but a toy.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Atheists may not hate God? That goes against the evidence and actions of the Atheist, in the way they treat those that believe in God. The anger and vitriol is ubiquitous in the Atheist stances and responses toward anyone that dissents of their absolutist way of life.

IzzyPop wrote:
It is very hard to hate that which you do not believe in. I have discussed other subjects with you and not gotten angry or vitriolic. But something tells me that will change soon. You have done nothing but post logical fallicies and ad hominems then stick your fingers in your ears and shout "La-La-La-La" when we try to respond.

 You atheists make the rules and then scream when someone breaks them. And the anger in the Atheist is ever present. You hate God with all of your heart, mind and soul. I couldn't care less about that. My position is to never allow you rule over the populace. Marxism shows us what happens when Atheists take over power. A Baptist Minister will not kick down my door to make sure i am complying with Baptistiam. You atheists paint an a far different picture by what you are doing right now. 

nonbobblehead wrote:
Love, patience and kindness? Only patience is seen in the natural animlaistic world. The one in which Atheism is founded on. Love and kindness do not exist in the animal kingdom. And, after all is said and done, Atheism dwells within the animal kingdom. Just in the higher, or highest, animal (of course).

IzzyPop wrote:
Dolphins, elephants, and apes have all been shown to grieve after a child dies. Love does exist in the animal kingdom.

 C'mon Izzy, there is no justice system in the animal kingdom other than the strong eating the weak. Any lawsuits by Gazelles suing Lions? Ever seen a Dolphin cemetary? Any monuments built to King Elephant by his crushed admirers?  But yes, I do admit that animals can display sadness or something that we would equate to the "emotion." But that seems to also denote a deity "to me." Ever heard of Balaams donkey? It had quite a view of life.

nonbobblehead wrote:
If one were to look at, for, or to "society," for their worth, then Atheism may indeed make sense. When one looks at a higher way to contemplate order and value of the human being, one becomes a Christian, Theist, or at least a Deist.

IzzyPop wrote:
It has been my experience that belief in God, and especially belief in an afterlife, devalues human beings.

Oh really? At which Christian founded University or Hospital did you aquire that opinion? 

 

IzzyPop wrote:
The eternal soul is more important then the flesh, so it doesn't matter if I torture/kill the flesh if the soul goes to heaven. An atheist would have a hard time justifying this.

And it would appear so would Christ Jesus according to the quotes of his written down in the New Testament. I'm cool with psuedo-Christian -Atheism 100%. 

nonbobblehead wrote:
Atheists do not have to be feared or hated by anyone, IF, they remain civil and respectful of dissent of their totalitarian ways of dealing with others.

IzzyPop wrote:
So stay in the house and let the thiests run everything? Sounds like a plan. I mean, they have done such a bang-up job of it. The Dark Ages were a glorious time for all, right?

They (Christians) have also come out of the Dark Ages to found the world's greatest places of education and healing, and implant their ideology and theology into the greatest government and countries the world has yet to see.

\\\

 Izzy, I'm going over to my neighbors house to ask his dog if she is sad about having her reproductive organs removed (spade). Seeing that she was denied children must be an emotional heartbreak.

 

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


Maragon
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0 x 0 = atheism   That's a

0 x 0 = atheism

 

That's a fallacy. Nowhere have we ever stated that 'something' came from 'nothing'.

 

I'm gonna have to call 'troll' on this guy. 


nonbobblehead
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Maragon wrote: Oh man, I

Maragon wrote:

Oh man, I hate that same old theist rhetoric about not being able to 'see' air or gravity or whatever - and equating that to your god belief.

 

Do you really not understand that difference?

I do. How can you not see that we are attempting to find God in our scientific "DIS" coveries? Whether by serendipity or by "design." Why do you not see that some of us Theists do not fear science in any way, except genocidally? Which of course does not speak well for Atheism.

Maragon wrote:
We can scientifically TEST for air and gravity, we can attribute certain effects and characterists to both of these things. We can see what happens when a LACK of either of these two things exists. You can't do any of those things for God.

 God. Same things. The numbers look very good for a creator of all things as a fact. I never needed gravity to have a word to define it to know not to throw rocks straight up over my head.

Maragon wrote:
You're attempting to strawman the posistion -this isn't about things we CAN'T see. This is about having no empirical evidence for the existance of god. 

And you have been conditioned to reply in exactly that way. Why is not the Atheist position built on a myth? Once the world was thought to be flat. Strawmen are built on theories as well.

It should be laughbale that you atheists refer to yourselves as "free" thinkers if it were not so disproveable. Your lock-step mantra chanting homogenized parade disproves your position.

em·pir·i·cism(m-pîr-szm)

n. 1. The view that experience, especially of the senses, is the only source of knowledge.2. a. Employment of empirical methods, as in science.b. An empirical conclusion.3. The practice of medicine that disregards scientific theory and relies solely on practical experience.

 

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


nonbobblehead
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Maragon wrote: 0 x 0 =

Maragon wrote:

0 x 0 = atheism

 

That's a fallacy. Nowhere have we ever stated that 'something' came from 'nothing'.

 

I'm gonna have to call 'troll' on this guy. 

Knne-jerk respone. Typical of the non-godian. Luckily I am done with dorm life and have no need to follow the crowd.

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


Maragon
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Quote: I do. How can you


Quote:
I do. How can you not see that we are attempting to find God in our scientific "DIS" coveries? Whether by serendipity or by "design." Why do you not see that some of us Theists do not fear science in any way, except genocidally? Which of course does not speak well for Atheism.

 

Are you trying to suggest that the reason science exists is to find god? What a silly concept. What do you say then to the statistics that show that scientists are among the least religious in the world? 

How does you not fearing science bode poorly for atheism? Oh wait, that doesn't make any sense. Try again. 

 

Quote:
God. Same things. The numbers look very good for a creator of all things as a fact. I never needed gravity to have a word to define it to know not to throw rocks straight up over my head.

 Oh they do? Well why don't you go ahead and 'enlighten' us by providing these 'numbers'?

Just because humans are able to discern some things from their surroundings, like your rock anaolgy, does not negate the need for scientific findings. Gravity does so much more then merely drop rocks on your head - you have an egocentric worldview. 

 


Quote:
And you have been conditioned to reply in exactly that way.

Have any proof for that assertation? 

Quote:
Why is not the Atheist position built on a myth? Once the world was thought to be flat. Strawmen are built on theories as well.

The 'theory' that the earth was flat was not a scientific one - but it was a biblical 'truth'. 

Quote:
It should be laughbale that you atheists refer to yourselves as "free" thinkers if it were not so disproveable. Your lock-step mantra chanting homogenized parade disproves your position.

 Any proof for your mindless assertations?

You know what disproves your posistion?

We do, over and over and over again. I've seen some intelligent atheists attempt to talk sense to you, and sadly you seem immune to it.

 

Broad generalizations and ad hominem attacks will get you nowhere in life - but after reading the bible a few times, I can see where you get your ideas from. 


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nonbobblehead

nonbobblehead wrote:
Maragon wrote:

0 x 0 = atheism

 

That's a fallacy. Nowhere have we ever stated that 'something' came from 'nothing'.

 

I'm gonna have to call 'troll' on this guy.

Knne-jerk respone. Typical of the non-godian. Luckily I am done with dorm life and have no need to follow the crowd.

 

You are the crowd, silly Christian!

You know what's typical of a 'godian'? Baseless accusations and ad hominem attacks. And you seem to have ample supply of both.

 

What do you expect to prove here?

You personify all that is bad and wrong with theism. 


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nonbobblehead wrote: Faith

nonbobblehead wrote:

Faith is the evidence of things unseen. That is a great thought process. Every scientist should think so.

Wrong. Faith is belief with NO proof.

nonbobblehead wrote:

I only believe in things I can see. I have faith in facts. 0 x 0 = Atheism. i cannot follow that absurdity.

So you see God? What does he look like?

nonbobblehead wrote:

And I see pure "evidence" of God. the universe down to the unseen virus that gives me a cold. I truly pity an atheistic mind. I don't fear some atheists, but many I do. They are fanatics of anger.

What does this have to do with anything?

nonbobblehead wrote:

Insult so ubiquitous in the Atheist towards an honest dissenter of Atheism duly noted. I think, therefore I am no accident or mutated monkey.

But you are not honest. You contradict yourself, spew ad hominems, and ignore questions that are asked in favor of proslytizing.

nonbobblehead wrote:

You. Even though you are a typical atheist, you are not an accident of nature. The math behind you is solid evidence for me. The odds that one sperm would unite with one ovum to produce you is quite the matematical probabilty. And yet, your DNA is unique. Otherwise you would be another exact copy of your brother. You can think a non-Atheist is an idiot, but trust me we are not.

I played in a poker game a few nights ago. I flopped a full house, aces over tens. Someone else pushed all-in with pocket eights. The turn and the river were both eights. The odds of this happening are about 990 to one against. So his pulling a four of a kind proves God?

nonbobblehead wrote:

And we would all be just impulsive animals without "reason." Reason and the thoughts about deity are implanted in us "somehow." Even the weak child in a pre-school knows it has been wronged by the larger kid that took his/her toy. How? Why? It is not food but a toy.

Reason is why we sit astride the top of the food chain. Thoughts on a deity are implanted inus by our parents. Morality is a societal thingy.

nonbobblehead wrote:

You atheists make the rules and then scream when someone breaks them.

On an atheist web site...yes. You set upa web site for whatever you believe and you can set your own rules there.

nonbobblehead wrote:
And the anger in the Atheist is ever present. You hate God with all of your heart, mind and soul. I couldn't care less about that.

Once again...It is hard to hate that which you do not believe.

nonbobblehead wrote:
My position is to never allow you rule over the populace. Marxism shows us what happens when Atheists take over power.

I am not a Marxist. Take a look at Sweden. Last I saw, they were not killing millions of people, and they are a secular nation.

nonbobblehead wrote:
A Baptist Minister will not kick down my door to make sure i am complying with Baptistiam. You atheists paint an a far different picture by what you are doing right now.

Bullshit. Theocratic rule leads to loss in freedoms and human rights. Look at the Middle East. Look at Dark Ages.

 

nonbobblehead wrote:

C'mon Izzy, there is no justice system in the animal kingdom other than the strong eating the weak. Any lawsuits by Gazelles suing Lions? Ever seen a Dolphin cemetary? Any monuments built to King Elephant by his crushed admirers? But yes, I do admit that animals can display sadness or something that we would equate to the "emotion." But that seems to also denote a deity "to me." Ever heard of Balaams donkey? It had quite a view of life.

Justice is very differnet then might makes right. I think it is pretty close to the opposite. I have read and seen pictures of an elephant graveyard. Does that count?

And no, Balaams donkey doesn't ring a bell. Care to share?

 

IzzyPop wrote:
It has been my experience that belief in God, and especially belief in an afterlife, devalues human beings.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Oh really? At which Christian founded University or Hospital did you aquire that opinion?

The Spanish Inqusition. The Crusades. The mujahdeen. The Taliban. Abortion clinic bombers. The Phelps family. Jim Jones.

IzzyPop wrote:
The eternal soul is more important then the flesh, so it doesn't matter if I torture/kill the flesh if the soul goes to heaven. An atheist would have a hard time justifying this.

nonbobblehead wrote:
And it would appear so would Christ Jesus according to the quotes of his written down in the New Testament. I'm cool with psuedo-Christian -Atheism 100%.

Actually sounds morelike psuedo-moral Christianity to me.

nonbobblehead wrote:

They (Christians) have also come out of the Dark Ages to found the world's greatest places of education and healing, and implant their ideology and theology into the greatest government and countries the world has yet to see.

Only once the people left their theism at home and out of the public sphere.

 

"When you hit your thumb with a hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a special kind of atheist to jump up and down shout, 'Oh, random fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!'"-Terry Pratchett


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Bubblehead: I have

Bubblehead:

I have something for you.

1X0=Theism.

Something from nothing? I don't think so. 


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Ophios

Ophios wrote:

Bubblehead:

I have something for you.

1X0=Theism.

Something from nothing? I don't think so.

 

I got one.

 

1/0 = anything you want it to be. 


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sapphen wrote: this may be

sapphen wrote:
this may be a work in progress, please feel free to add to it. there are a lot of misconceptions about atheist. a lot of intelligent theist have already stated ideas that they have heard before. if you do bring an idea here keep in mind the following; 1. white space is important 2. simplify without compromising your thoughts 3. don't get angry 4. faith requires the lack of proof 5. personal proof is not going to convince anyone, but it welcomed to be shared. 6. don't underestimate your opposition and don't over estimate yourself. if you are unsure, ask questions. 7. atheist do not hate God, they don't believe in Him (and sometimes they are big meanies, but sometimes we can be too). lol Eye-wink 8. love, patience and kindness goes a long way 9. don't believe in God because society told you to, search within yourself for your belief. religion can be flawed... God created man, man created religion. if you are unsure of your faith you can not effectively argue it's case.

What the hell? Man, I work, toil and labor over my barbaqued kittens and all you can do is say "we dont hate something we dont believe in?"

STOP IT MAN, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT, A SPECIES THAT ACTUALLY GETS ALONG?

Oh, I suppose you are one of those who would rather debate than start war? You liberal pinko commie! Oh, you cant have that label, we atheists invented it!.

Next thing you know we might have peace. Why do you always have to spoil the fun?Tongue out

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wavefreak wrote: Ophios

wavefreak wrote:
Ophios wrote:

Bubblehead:

I have something for you.

1X0=Theism.

Something from nothing? I don't think so.

 

I got one.

 

1/0 = anything you want it to be.

Oh good! You found your God. 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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wavefreak wrote: Ophios

wavefreak wrote:
Ophios wrote:

Bubblehead:

I have something for you.

1X0=Theism.

Something from nothing? I don't think so.

 

I got one.

 

1/0 = anything you want it to be.

 

"When you hit your thumb with a hammer it's nice to be able to blaspheme. It takes a special kind of atheist to jump up and down shout, 'Oh, random fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!'"-Terry Pratchett


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I'm worried about

I'm worried about bubblenut.  Sounds like he is spewing froth all over his keyboard with every laboured snort of indignation and religious outrage.

Maybe we should alert the authorities? 

Religion is the ultimate con-job. It cons the conned, and it cons the conner.

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PillarMyArse wrote: I'm

PillarMyArse wrote:

I'm worried about bubblenut. Sounds like he is spewing froth all over his keyboard with every laboured snort of indignation and religious outrage.

Maybe we should alert the authorities?

They have been alerted... 


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BGH wrote: PillarMyArse

BGH wrote:
PillarMyArse wrote:

I'm worried about bubblenut. Sounds like he is spewing froth all over his keyboard with every laboured snort of indignation and religious outrage.

Maybe we should alert the authorities?

They have been alerted...

 

Thanks man.  I'll sleep a little safer now. 

Religion is the ultimate con-job. It cons the conned, and it cons the conner.

Mr.T : "I ain't gettin' on no damn plane [sic]" - environmentalism at it's best


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PillarMyArse wrote: I'm

PillarMyArse wrote:

I'm worried about bubblenut. Sounds like he is spewing froth all over his keyboard with every laboured snort of indignation and religious outrage.

Maybe we should alert the authorities?

 

Thus my post.

Which is only aimed to bubbleyum, and doesn't apply to anyone else, so your cool wavefreak. 

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HAHAH!! i just fount your

HAHAH!! i just fount your comment brian... touché


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nonbobblehead wrote: Then

nonbobblehead wrote:

Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

I sense a fallacy of equivocation
Quote:

Atheists may not hate God? That goes against the evidence and actions of the Atheist, in the way they treat those that believe in God. The anger and vitriol is ubiquitous in the Atheist stances and responses toward anyone that dissents of their absolutist way of life.

If you want to know why some atheists might do so, look in the mirror.
Quote:

Only patience is seen in the natural animlaistic world. The one in which Atheism is founded on. Love and kindness do not exist in the animal kingdom. And, after all is said and done, Atheism dwells within the animal kingdom. Just in the higher, or highest, animal (of course).

I can observe love and kindness, therefore love and kindness exist in the natural world.

Now for this:

Quote:

0 x 0 = atheism.

So zero is equal to atheism? What ever that means...

Religion is not the opiate of the people Karl, opium is. Go to Seattle or Tampa Bay (or any city on earth, and see.

I see you don't understand the quote; religion, like opium, takes away the pain without taking away the cause of the pain.

"What right have you to condemn a murderer if you assume him necessary to "God's plan"? What logic can command the return of stolen property, or the branding of a thief, if the Almighty decreed it?"
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So now, nonbob thinks

So now, nonbob thinks doctors don't learn in medical school?

They just rack up a debt in drinks and stuff.

Now I want to be a doctor, it'll be the best 8 years of my life.

Just wait, then grab the diploma. 

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sapphen wrote: very good

sapphen wrote:
very good post nonbobblehead, by no means did i want to offend your beliefs! if you where to talk to a first time Christian that is about to step into this ongoing debate, what suggestions would you give them before they posted?

 

First I would say, congratulations and welcome to reality. Second, I would ask them "how" they used to believe in reality.

 Third, I would tell them that most people are not a Christian. Fourth, I would tell them not to worry about that many people hating Christians accept for strict Muslims, Gays/Lesbians and certain kinds of Atheists.

Fifth, I would tell them to test all things and hold firmly onto the truth and not to worry about Atheists that rant and rave against Christians. (It's the ones that pass laws against Christians that we have to always keep in front of us.)

Other than that, just enjoy the wild ride. 

 

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


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nonbobblehead

nonbobblehead wrote:

Knne-jerk respone. Typical of the non-godian. Luckily I am done with dorm life and have no need to follow the crowd.

after observing your poor grammar and inability to realize when you're contradicting yourself and making ridiculous broad generalizations, i'd have to say that you should have stayed in school. it obviously didn't take the first time around. i'm not sure what's more criminal; your utter misunderstanding of the word "reality" or your spelling. 

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tpyos

djneibarger wrote:
nonbobblehead wrote:

Knne-jerk respone. Typical of the non-godian. Luckily I am done with dorm life and have no need to follow the crowd.

after observing your poor grammar and inability to realize when you're contradicting yourself and making ridiculous broad generalizations, i'd have to say that you should have stayed in school. it obviously didn't take the first time around. i'm not sure what's more criminal; your utter misunderstanding of the word "reality" or your spelling. 

I was answering someone else. And please, typos are common to quick typing. I care nothing for your grading system. I'm never going to attend your class.

The reality for Christians is that they are targets of pure hate. Unreasoning and irrational hate. Look around at the way the garden-variety atheist treats them here at this website while attempting to offer the world a better path?

Comparing the Crusades and Inquisitions, Jim Jones and Phelps Church group?

Let's compare them to the Communist Russians shall we? Good old atheists if ever their were ones. Some person over at debatingchristianity.com answered my question of how many people were killed "in the name of" Christianity throughout history. He came up with a little less then two-million overall.

The Marxists (atheist one and all) killed that many people in less than a year. And that was just the Russian version. We have yet to learn of Chinese atrocities as they are not as forthcoming with their historical truth.

Looks like the same old anti-Christian bash-fest  here at RRS to me. But as long as "you guys" don't advocate genocide (which it does look like with the "War on Christmas and Easter" fanaticism) anymore, towards non-atheists, than all is just listening to the wind. 

I like giving advice to Christians because they are so peaceful and open-minded. I don't bother with atheists because they truly appear so angry and mono-thinking. I am not proselytizing, preaching nor trying to convert anyone, nor am I seeking martyrdom as I do not exist in that classification of people.

I am here to see the future in which I will have to live. Knowing where to duck, when and how, and ascertaining who is throwing the stones, is truly seeking knowledge. I will try hard not to use the "F" word in response to the typical vitriol shackled to the atheist reply, from now on.   

I still think that 0 x 0 = atheism, is the starting point to find the value in non-godianism. It just isn't there "to me."

Evolution certainly is not the enemy of the Theist, nor is science. Both ideas exist within the created universe. They should scare a Theist not one second.

Who created time?

That's the starting point for me.

Be happy and enjoy your day.

(Did I spell everything OK?)

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


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nonbobblehead Atheists do

nonbobblehead wrote:
Atheists do not have to be feared or hated by anyone, IF, they remain civil and respectful of dissent of their totalitarian ways of dealing with others.

Our "totalitarian ways"? WTF? Can I have what you are smoking, it must be good.

No you dont have to fear us, that part is correct. But to ask for civility after a statement like that is absurd and insulting.

You must be "totalitarian" yourself by not blindly buying Allah or Vishnu simply because people make claims about their existance. YOU must be a dictator by proxy of the fact that you question their claims.

You think you diserve protection from questioning and blasphemy because you have a deity you like? You dont see the Muslims who demanded respect by threating a cartoonist with death because he dipicted Muhammed with a bomb in his turban being "totallitarian".

Hey, maybe you too can demand politicall correctness from atheists too. If that doesnt work, take the next step and make "hate crime laws" that protect Jesus. Then when that doesnt work, have us arrested or exicuted for questiong your god.

Seems to me if anything lends itself to "totallitarianism" it would be the "Dont pick on my daddy or I will hurt you".

Let me smack you in the face with some reality bud. We are not dictators and we dont take kindly to such accusations. You want our respect you earn it we dont give it away "just because".

You doubt and reject all other deity claims besides yours and you have the nerve to call us "totallitarian" merely because we reject one more deity claim than you do?

So I guess Thomas Jefferson would be a dictator too for saying,

"Question with boldness even the existance of God, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear".

I guess president John Adams was being a dictator when he signed the "Treaty of Tripoly" aka "Barbary Treaty" in which articall 11 says, "As the goverment of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" June 10th 1797.

I guess since those guys didnt want to live under a totalititarian theocracy that makes them dictators? Because they valued reason and wrote a Constitution that gives us the right to qestion anything that somehow makes us "totalititarian" dictators.

Please spare us the "poor me" victimization garbage. We are simply tired of being ignored and we dont want to see freedom backslide into theocracy.

If you value the rights of Christians to say "Allah doesnt exist" then you should have some ethical empathy to understand that we merely question your claims as well as any other deity claim.

To turn us into monsters because of your own insicurities is childish and ignorant.

Atheists, "That is not true"

Theist, " YOU HATE ME"

Dont feel bad, your are not the only sect or only religious label that really wants us to be punished for our blasphemey. "ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"

"Dont pick on daddy", yep, been there, done that. Not impressed in the least. Get back to me when you have evedence insted of emotional demonization.

 

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nonbobblehead wrote: Faith

nonbobblehead wrote:

Faith requires the lack of proof?

Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

That's not faith, that's expectation based on evidence.

 

Quote:
"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.

Where did that quote come from? Which atheist said it?

 

All I can find is 5 people in the world who have ever uttered it online, you are one of em and everyone else appears to be a theist as well. I can't find a single atheist who has ever said those words. Do you know what a strawman argument is? You just committed it.

 

Quote:
We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

No we don't need faith for that, we can test the theory.

 

Quote:
No Christian underestimates an Atheist,

But they do tend to put words in our mouths (see 2 quotes ago, from you).

Quote:
as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.

Everyone on Earth is born atheist. The comment "I was once an atheist" when uttered by a Christian is a means to determine the persons grasp of the definitions of words used in the discussion, in this case yours is nil.

 

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nonbobblehead wrote: The

nonbobblehead wrote:

The reality for Christians is that they are targets of pure hate. Unreasoning and irrational hate.

Classic example of, "you reap what you sow."

 

Atheists might always appear angry to you because you're always acting moronic in front of them, insulting their intelligence with the remote notion that any of them would buy your load of bullshit. And you do have a load of bullshit my friend, more so than anyone else on this forum.

Do yourself a favor, start learning from your stay here. Take the lead from someone like Sapphen rather than step on him with your obnoxious arrogant ignorance. Within 1 day of allowing you back on the board, I had 2 more emails asking for you to be banned again. If you want to stay, I'd highly suggest not rehashing points that people have addressed over and over.

How about trying to act a little more like you acted as you cried on my shoulder in email, instead of this whole 3 foot long penis routine you have on our board?

 

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nonbobblehead wrote: First

nonbobblehead wrote:
First I would say, congratulations and welcome to reality.

They will be pleased to hear this from you.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Second, I would ask them "how" they used to believe in reality.

Umm... if I'm understanding you correctly... Cogito Ergo Sum. 

nonbobblehead wrote:
Third, I would tell them that most people are not a Christian.

 You mean not Christians.  And this probably isn't true in America, anywho.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Fourth, I would tell them not to worry about that many people hating Christians accept for strict Muslims, Gays/Lesbians and certain kinds of Atheists.

 Those Gays!!!(shakes fist)

nonbobblehead wrote:
Fifth, I would tell them to test all things and hold firmly onto the truth and not to worry about Atheists that rant and rave against Christians. (It's the ones that pass laws against Christians that we have to always keep in front of us.)

So that would include testing Atheism, correct?

 

Look, your main problem with the Atheist view is that the universe cannot come from nothing.  However, even the vacuum - nothing - is filled with virtual particles popping in and out of existance.  Also, while the Big Bang is considered the beginning of the universe, there is no way for us to tell what was before it.  There might have been a whole different universe that existed before us, that existed as this one did, crunched back together(I know, this theory is outdated, it's just an easy example) and repeated the process.  If God can be infinite, why can't the universe be?

You are also under the impression that we all hate theists.  Not true.  Sapphen and myself are tighter than some analogy I can't think of right now.  I'd take a bullet for the guy(I got your back Sapphen).  We just dislike the one's who think they ARE God and know everything, but come in with 0 information.

O, nd ur gramer sux.Wink

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


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thank you xam, your support

thank you xam, your support is a true encouragement.

sapient, i likewise deeply appricate the regard.

thank you for your posts. 

May God bless us and give us the words to express our ideas in a creative and civil manner, while providing us an ear that we may truly hear each other, and a voice to clearly project our thoughts.


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Sapient

Sapient wrote:
nonbobblehead wrote:

Faith requires the lack of proof?

Then why are doctors doctors? They have "faith" in their education. They have faith when they cut open a person the way they were taught.

That's not faith, that's expectation based on evidence.

 People on earth are taught about there being no god and how to be an atheist. The history of civilization (and before) shows lots of different people living in lots of different places and at lots of different times being very religious and believing in lots and lots of gods. It appears atheism is a thought process brought about by selfishness. Something goes wrong and god gets the ax.

My strawman has flesh and blood and can be measured and is built on the real actions and real words of atheists and the typical skeptic crowd.

 

Quote:
"There is no God because 'I' can't see Him.Her/It. Now that is simplistic faith. Spoken time and again from the "personal" opinion of the Atheist.

Where did that quote come from? Which atheist said it?

 

All I can find is 5 people in the world who have ever uttered it online, you are one of em and everyone else appears to be a theist as well. I can't find a single atheist who has ever said those words. Do you know what a strawman argument is? You just committed it.

 

Quote:
We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

No we don't need faith for that, we can test the theory.

 

Quote:
No Christian underestimates an Atheist,

But they do tend to put words in our mouths (see 2 quotes ago, from you).

Quote:
as most Christians were once Atheists. Whether they (the Atheists) like it or not.

Everyone on Earth is born atheist. The comment "I was once an atheist" when uttered by a Christian is a means to determine the persons grasp of the definitions of words used in the discussion, in this case yours is nil.

 

Sapient, You cannot see God therefore God doesn't exist. That is the atheist position stated in many different ways but meaning the same thing. Why do you believe there is no god? Put the words in your own mouth and write them down. Babies being born diseased does not disprove God. Remember the lady screaming at Mr. Comfort about "Cancer?"

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


nonbobblehead
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xamination

xamination wrote:

nonbobblehead wrote:
First I would say, congratulations and welcome to reality.

They will be pleased to hear this from you.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Second, I would ask them "how" they used to believe in reality.

Umm... if I'm understanding you correctly... Cogito Ergo Sum. 

nonbobblehead wrote:
Third, I would tell them that most people are not a Christian.

 You mean not Christians.  And this probably isn't true in America, anywho.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Fourth, I would tell them not to worry about that many people hating Christians accept for strict Muslims, Gays/Lesbians and certain kinds of Atheists.

 Those Gays!!!(shakes fist)

nonbobblehead wrote:
Fifth, I would tell them to test all things and hold firmly onto the truth and not to worry about Atheists that rant and rave against Christians. (It's the ones that pass laws against Christians that we have to always keep in front of us.)

So that would include testing Atheism, correct?

 

Look, your main problem with the Atheist view is that the universe cannot come from nothing.  However, even the vacuum - nothing - is filled with virtual particles popping in and out of existance.  Also, while the Big Bang is considered the beginning of the universe, there is no way for us to tell what was before it.  There might have been a whole different universe that existed before us, that existed as this one did, crunched back together(I know, this theory is outdated, it's just an easy example) and repeated the process.  If God can be infinite, why can't the universe be?

You are also under the impression that we all hate theists.  Not true.  Sapphen and myself are tighter than some analogy I can't think of right now.  I'd take a bullet for the guy(I got your back Sapphen).  We just dislike the one's who think they ARE God and know everything, but come in with 0 information.

O, nd ur gramer sux.Wink

Spare me the typo grading. You obviously understand my point of view through the mispelled words.

 It is the atheist that is demanding to rule the populace. Just one glimpse at the education system proves that fact.

I watched the RRS debate against Comfort and what's his name. It sure looked like atheists HATE theists to me. The ubiquitous screaming and red-faces of the atheists and all. And I've heard that it was just a glimpse of the debate that we saw on TV.

The Big Bang looks like a starting point to me. Asking what created God isn't as impressive as what caused the begining to begin. Atheists hold onto very shakey attacks went it comes down to it.

Time is what it's all about. Nothing happened until time did.

 

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


nonbobblehead
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xamination

[MOD EDIT - duplicate post removed]

 

 


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nonbobblehead

nonbobblehead wrote:
xamination wrote:

nonbobblehead wrote:
First I would say, congratulations and welcome to reality.

They will be pleased to hear this from you.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Second, I would ask them "how" they used to believe in reality.

Umm... if I'm understanding you correctly... Cogito Ergo Sum.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Third, I would tell them that most people are not a Christian.

You mean not Christians. And this probably isn't true in America, anywho.

nonbobblehead wrote:
Fourth, I would tell them not to worry about that many people hating Christians accept for strict Muslims, Gays/Lesbians and certain kinds of Atheists.

Those Gays!!!(shakes fist)

nonbobblehead wrote:
Fifth, I would tell them to test all things and hold firmly onto the truth and not to worry about Atheists that rant and rave against Christians. (It's the ones that pass laws against Christians that we have to always keep in front of us.)

So that would include testing Atheism, correct?

 

Look, your main problem with the Atheist view is that the universe cannot come from nothing. However, even the vacuum - nothing - is filled with virtual particles popping in and out of existance. Also, while the Big Bang is considered the beginning of the universe, there is no way for us to tell what was before it. There might have been a whole different universe that existed before us, that existed as this one did, crunched back together(I know, this theory is outdated, it's just an easy example) and repeated the process. If God can be infinite, why can't the universe be?

You are also under the impression that we all hate theists. Not true. Sapphen and myself are tighter than some analogy I can't think of right now. I'd take a bullet for the guy(I got your back Sapphen). We just dislike the one's who think they ARE God and know everything, but come in with 0 information.

O, nd ur gramer sux.Wink

Spare me the typo grading. You obviously understand my point of view through the mispelled words.

It is the atheist that is demanding to rule the populace. Just one glimpse at the education system proves that fact.

I watched the RRS debate against Comfort and what's his name. It sure looked like atheists HATE theists to me. The ubiquitous screaming and red-faces of the atheists and all. And I've heard that it was just a glimpse of the debate that we saw on TV.

The Big Bang looks like a starting point to me. Asking what created God isn't as impressive as what caused the beginning to begin. Atheists hold onto very shakey attacks went it comes down to it.

Time is what it's all about. Nothing happened until time did.

 

Which atheists want to rule the populace? I challenge you to give me one name. 

The only ones I see in rulership (and doing poorly I might add) are theists who are pushing for a fundamentalist theocracy.

I see you saw the edited Nightline excerpts that were culled to make Brian and Kelly look bad. Did you take anytime to watch the whole thing? I didn't see any red faces but if Brian and Kelly were red-faced, it was due to exasperation listening to your boys  Ray and Kirk break their own rules and misrepresent nearly everything they spoke on.

If nothing happened until time did, doesn't that include God? Oh, wait. You think God is outside time, don't you?

Breaking your own rules again. Christ, Ray and Kirk must be proud of you. 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


xamination
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Again, we don't hate

Again, we don't hate theists, we just dislike the arrogant illogical ones. For the educational system - creationism is a religious view.  It is being pushed almost entirely by Protestant Americans.  There is very little scientific evidence supporting the view.  So when you try to teach it as science in a government-supported school who takes no preference in religion is unconstitutional.

And again, I ask, why can't the universe be eternal? 

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


Jacob Cordingley
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nonbobblehead wrote: We

nonbobblehead wrote:

We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

We can see the effects of gravity. We can also measure gravity. Can we see the effects of God?


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Jacob Cordingley

Jacob Cordingley wrote:

nonbobblehead wrote:

We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

We can see the effects of gravity. We can also measure gravity. Can we see the effects of God?

You realize he's going to start talking about miracles and the wonders of God's creations... and this is going to become an unintelligable muck. 

I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.


nonbobblehead
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xamination wrote: Jacob

xamination wrote:
Jacob Cordingley wrote:

nonbobblehead wrote:

We can't see gravity either, but we see its effects. We have faith that the person that labeled gravity "gravity," pointed us in the right direction. All an atheist has is his or her personal proof.

We can see the effects of gravity. We can also measure gravity. Can we see the effects of God?

You realize he's going to start talking about miracles and the wonders of God's creations... and this is going to become an unintelligable muck. 

Cause and effect. Written like a true thinker. "Miracles" are not needed. Just the observable and the yet to be seen within the universe, testify against Atheism. I just have eyes that see and ears that hear.

We can test what God has made.

 

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


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Sapient

Sapient wrote:
nonbobblehead wrote:

The reality for Christians is that they are targets of pure hate. Unreasoning and irrational hate.

Classic example of, "you reap what you sow."

 

Atheists might always appear angry to you because you're always acting moronic in front of them, insulting their intelligence with the remote notion that any of them would buy your load of bullshit. And you do have a load of bullshit my friend, more so than anyone else on this forum.

Do yourself a favor, start learning from your stay here. Take the lead from someone like Sapphen rather than step on him with your obnoxious arrogant ignorance. Within 1 day of allowing you back on the board, I had 2 more emails asking for you to be banned again. If you want to stay, I'd highly suggest not rehashing points that people have addressed over and over.

How about trying to act a little more like you acted as you cried on my shoulder in email, instead of this whole 3 foot long penis routine you have on our board?

 

I would not report a complaint that a poster here is using the word "bullshit" to describe my posts? This is typical behavior when dealing with atheists on the subject of Christians. Why get mad at anger?

 Or is invective and vitriol only a one-way Atheist only street? I ceratinly have been honest that I am not "Christ like." And I have been honest that I am not denying Christ either. Christians impress me with their willingness to not run away from their enemies.

Atheism is founded on personal opinions of what people see. Theism is founded on personal opinions of what people see.

Why is it that you skeptics take the high road of intellectual elitism? I feel the Christians as one group, have done well in responding to the incessant attacks of their adversaries. You atheists appear to not respond as nobly.

The craetion is a witness to the Craetor. That is not an opinion founded on nothing. It is an opnion based on modern observations. Atheism literally is an opinion founded on nothing and an opinion trying to prove it.

You think my assertion is "bullshit?"

It is of no less value than yours is.

Science is no enemy of the theist. But the anger and hatred and borderline assualtive actions of Atheists towards Theists such as Christians is. I thought that both you and your partner were composed during the debate with Comfort, but clearly that is not the case with all atheists. I would have responded to the screaming woman about cancer, as cancer being a good thing. It weeds out the weak. Something obviously you Atheists admire. Why care about the sufering "of others?" Let nature take its course.

But why is it that you can insult me with words like "bulshit" and I garner complaints for thinking that skeptics are idiots driven by emotions and not logic? Studying protiens is never going to shore up the atheist position that there is no God.

It is not logical that the universe is an accident caused by other accidents. Observable "scientific" experiments prove otherwise. We are searching for answers to things within the test tube, not outside of it.

God created time no matter the rantings to the opposite. We are existing in that time. If we didn't we would not be arguing anywhere or at any time.  

And I didn't pour my heart out to you in my emails, please feel free to post them. I appealed to equity and fairness, while knowing all too well, that they are in short supply from the Skeptic/Freethinker community.

If someone calls me an idiot, I should be able to respond in kind. Your bullshit reply in this thread bothers me not one little bit. It was expected.

My insults towards atheists shouldn't bother anyone. I left deludedgod's thread because he is an absolutist that he is absolutely right on everything. I shouldn't have bothered wasting time in that thread. I haven't spent twenty-years studying one thing. I have life to live and things to experience.

I will endeavor to NOT RESPOND to insults with insults. Who wants to deal with that kind of bullshit anyway.

 

 

 

0 x 0 = Atheism. Something from nothing? Ahhh no.
And Karl, religion is not the opiate of the people, opium is. Visit any modern city in the western world and see.


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Oh, by the by, you never

Oh, by the by, you never got to answering my question.

 

What did god make the universe from? 


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energy, love and a pinch of

energy, love and a pinch of salt.