What's up with Jesus?
Offline This is something that has boggled my mind for so long now, ever since I got a view of the american religious life. I wanted to post in this forum, because I want to hear from your view, no matter what you believe in.
Why do people worship Jesus? Now, stop right there. Don't give me a lecture on who he is and what he did, I know this full and well. I have noticed especially in America(since you guys do like to shout so damn loud), that Jesus seems to be put on a level of worship equal or beyond the old man himself. I've seen cars with these nifty window-stickers and other decals with "Jesus saves" "Jesus loves you" and a million other combinations of warm and fuzzy words.
And a lot of people take this to a further level, where you hear lots of funny things such as "Jesus told me so", "Jesus loves ME", "Best pal of Jesus". Seems like his self-sacrificed ass is being used by people to shout out about their own importance.
But back to the question in hand. I'm a Swedish Protenstant, I went to confirmation and nowadays I generally care very little. Actually, let's leave my personal religious views out of this. But the fact is, in contrast is that I have -never- seen such a big bunch of mad props towards the supposedly Divine Pimp, in any christian person or church around here. We wern't even preached about that. But then again, protenstantism(which the culture of our country is based around since about 500 years back) is a branch of christianity that denies the actual worship of god through the saints, etc. As in, you only give mad props to the Old Man himself. But to my experience with even the Catholics is that not even they put Jesus on such a high chair as so many religious movements in USland does.
So what's up with this whole "worship of Jesus" thing? Do people want him to take the place of the Old Man? That'd be rather cool.
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I think they have the view that Jesus/God are one and the same. I have protestant heritage too (it is the official state religion in the UK) but I really don't care for religion at all. Not baptised, not confirmed, nothing.
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I'll try to answer briefly, although I'll probably be making a separate thread soon since there's a lot of confusion and misinformation about Christianity in general on these boards.
After Jesus' death and resurrection he ascended to the right hand of God the Father to take his place as Lord of earth and judge of all people. God the Father gave him the divine authority. Therefore, Jesus is to be Lord (as in ruler, lawgiver, etc.) of each Christian's life.
That should explain a lot of Jesus-centric behavior. On top of this is the concept of the Trinity, where the Son is one "person" of the single God. Jesus told Philip in John 14 that anyone who had seen Jesus had also seen the Father. John 1 is even more explicit. Of course, Jesus stated very plainly that worship was for the Father alone.
Ultimately words like worship, glorify, et al get blended together and lose meaning. I personally find Christian education (at least in "USland"
disappointing. We can give glory and honor to Jesus Christ, but worship is reserved for the Father.
"The map appears more real to us than the land." - Lawrence
LMFAO at the divine pimp!
there's the biblical answer to your question, such as that given by JHenson, which is accurate, or there's what i consider the more simple explanation. in america, though you will find many christians that have read the bible and can quote scripture word for word, there are many more christians (especially throughout the midwest) who have only skimmed the bible, and they tend to see jesus as a "superhero" figure. in the same way the many americans don't have a clue what a muslim really is or what's really going on in the middle east, so they break it down into "america good" and "turbin wearing terrorists bad" (thanks for dumbing down america, cheney).
though i'm what you would consider a hardcore atheist, this is not an attack on christianity. this "dumbing down" of the jesus myth is not the fault of christianity itself, but of the followers.
for the sake of fairness, you could view atheists the same way. there are atheists who have studied evolution thoroughly, and agree with it but admit that there are chunks of missing information yet to be resolved to satisfaction. and then there are atheists who simply swear that the theory of evolution is complete and flawless, only because they have taken it at face value without any exploration.
www.derekneibarger.com http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=djneibarger "all postures of submission and surrender should be part of our prehistory." -christopher hitchens
Being raised RC I get the Jesis is God is the Holy Spirit game...but I'd like to append and alter the question...
Why does catholicism (and I don't know what if any branches of other Christian sects) treat Mary as a god and pray to her while at the same time preach against polytheism? That's just a contradiction.
Bad enough with the holy tinity, but the "they are one" thing can be used as an excuse...but Mary?
I agree with djneilbarger's take on the situation, as well. Miseducation and a lack of personal motivation and/or responsability could easily be described as "rampant" in my corner of the world. I suspect a lot of America is similar, at least. I sympathize somewhat. There's a sea of misinformation out there, and experts that attack each other's theories. Who wants to sift through what experts can't even agree on?
I think we're each responsible for our own education. It's just pitiable that getting it has been made so difficult. One can hardly blame a person for being disenfranchised with education, among so many other things.
Edit: I can't speak much on the "cult of Mary" phenomenon, since I don't personally practice it. As far as I know, it's strictly a Roman Catholic thing.
"The map appears more real to us than the land." - Lawrence
Catholicism is pretty much polytheism. It's more polytheistic than Hinduism! In Hinduism all the Gods are all parts of the one God. In Catholicism The father, son and holy spirit are part of the one God but angels, saints, virgin mothers are all deities in their own right. There is an anecdote in the GD where Pope John Paul II put his survival of an assassination attempt down to the loving hand of St Fatima or something.
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That cig lighter rox tho.
fixed.
Most of us used to be Christian, I won't let you get away with calling us ignorant in that regard. Christianity is so messed up with all it's various denominations; of course it clashes with your own personal idea of the religion! A Southern Baptist, a Catholic, and a Lutheran all will disagree on points of the same religion.
As for the comment that Catholics are polytheists, I'm not sure that's entirely true. Holding a saint in high regard and placing a special name on them does not equate worship. The Christians all worship the same freakin' God, have largely similiar ideas and then squabble over semantics.
Maybe if you'd all get over yourselves (Xtians), you'd accomplish something. But you know what it's about? Money. The Christian church split apart because the Roman Catholic Church (the original gangsters) were getting to rich and powerful and wouldn't let others (Martin Luther, for example) in on the riches. They wanted to profit as well, and started their own churches.
Religion makes money. I'm half tempted to start a church so I can work one day a week and make a living.
YOU shut the fuck up! WE'LL save America!
I agree that saints and angels and such in catholicism doesn't make it polytheism, but I want to focus on Mary. Who ascended to heaven, did not die, performs miracles, is prayed directly to instead of god / jesus. I don't really see how Mary is not treated like a god in everyway accept given credit for creation.
She created God. How much more credit does she want?
You know, having been Catholic, I know this is a common misconception.
Mary is prayed directly to, (at least I was told this in Catholic school) because it was believed at one point in the history of the religion Catholics thought they weren't worthy enough to pray directly to the Father, so they prayed to the Virgin mother to pray for them.
She really is in no way worshipped by the Catholics, but is simply the UBERSAINT, so to speak and is held in the highest regard, but is still below the worship of the Holy Trinity.
Crazy? Yes. Delusional? Yep. But we're talking about a massive cult that symbolically eats the flesh of a 2000 year old Jewish Zombie.
YOU shut the fuck up! WE'LL save America!
Your answer: Americans are crazy.
I'm from Florida and I've seen, every single day, far too much Jesus-freak freakiness (freakishness?) going on. One crowning moment I can think of: seeing my beloved old car driving on the interstate (I knew it was my old car because it had the window decals I had put on it) with a JESUS IS MY HOMEBOY bumper sticker on the rear bumper. The horror. My poor old car.
But there is also a definite difference between regions. My parents are from Boston, and whenever I'm up there it's such a breath of fresh air not to see a single Jesus fish (down here it seems there's multiple Jesus fish on every other car) or Got Jesus bumper stickers or whatever. The northeast seems to be much less crazy. Florida, however, is the heartland of craziness (and not just with religion).
I'm not exactly sure why the Jesus freak thing is so prominent in America, but I think it had absolutely become some sort of weird counter-culture that unfortunately is becoming more mainstream. People make a whole lifestyle out of wearing Jesus shirts and putting Jesus bumper stickers on their car and telling people it's okay, Jesus loves you. My high school was like this: preps, theatre dorks (me!), jocks, rednecks, goths, punks, and Jesus Freaks. It's an unfortunate cultural blemish, I think.
I would also suggest that it's probably easier to worship something that takes a form that people can relate to. Jesus in human mode is a concept more comfortable than god the father, which has no recognizable form. Just a thought.
"The powerful have always created false images of the weak."
The Christianity I offer is what I've found in the Bible. I won't go boasting that I perfectly understand it or that my thoughts aren't colored by my background, but I will say I strive to base my beliefs on scripture and take all church teachings with a grain of salt. Frankly, there is only one truth and the rest is horse shit.
I went to Catholic high school and Icebergin's assessment of saints and Mary is accurate. They're seen as intercessors. The notion is absurd, since Jesus Christ is our intercessor and tells us directly to pray to the Father.
And I hate those retarded bumper stickers. "Jesus is my homeboy" ... ugh. It's belittling to the faith.
"The map appears more real to us than the land." - Lawrence